Reply With QuoteDidn’t Brandon Lee die in similar circumstances?
Still can’t quite work out what happened though.
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It is almost impossible to conceive of how this could happen.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59005500
Having spent much of my first career around film and TV show sets, the levels of safety checks even then were very high. What an awful event and tragedy for those injured or killed, and for Baldwin himself.
So clever my foot fell off.
Didn’t Brandon Lee die in similar circumstances?
Still can’t quite work out what happened though.
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He did. They found a blank case from a previous firing had lodged in the barrel, and that when it was used again a new blank fired the old case like a bullet.Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers
I’d have thought things were tightened up since then, but I guess we don’t know exactly what happened and the info so far only states there’d been a ‘malfunction’.
It beggars belief how this can happen.... and multiple times.
Surely there is a firearms expert present who checks the guns?
Failing that, use a gun that fires caps and dub in the realistic sound afterward.
Cheers,
Neil.
It is absolutely tragic. Poor woman, and imagine having to live with accidentally killing someone at work. Terrible for all concerned.
Absoute tragedy.
Sounds for explosions, gunshots and that kind of stuff are always added in post production anyway. No idea why they'd need guns capable of maiming on a movie set.
Someone involved in production was speaking on BBC news saying that is what they do now. Obviously not universal.
The Brandon Lee story I heard was they put dummy rounds ( cartridges with bullets but no powder) in the revolver for a close-up shot showing the bullets in the chambers. Then, to simulate actual gunfire, they removed the dummies and reloaded with blanks (cartridges with powder no bullets). But they didn't clear the gun after taking out the dummies and didn't notice one of the dummies had come apart leaving a bullet in the chamber. When the blank fired it propelled the bullet into Lee.
That's what I heard. He was in brilliant in the Crow, such a shame, and his Dad went early too.
Terrible this latest incident.
exactly that, and after the shot was fired they thought he was fooling around by slumping forward only to discover he was out cold but with a pulse but very sadly died shortly after...and the film completed via CGi for roof top scenes ...
as a huge Bruce fan I was really looking forward to following Brandons career evolve...
very sad for the deceased today and spare a thought for Baldwin who will be having a horrid time being tormented by the last 24 hours
..
as many have said 'avoidable' with todays CGi...
Last edited by TKH; 22nd October 2021 at 14:31.
Grim, and in hindsight so easily avoided with a simple procedure to check the ‘dummies’ are logged back in complete with bullets and a check of the chamber for any obstructions.
I can imagine that filming gets fraught at times and people are under pressure to ‘get on with it’ but that all seems easily avoidable.
Tragic for all concerned on The Crow set and also now this latest one.
There was a US action series called Cover Up in 1984 and the costar Jon Erik-Hexum died in a freak accident when he pointed a gun firing blanks at his head and pulled the trigger. I know it wasn't the best thing to do but I guess he never for one second thought this could kill him.
It’s an awful accident. Any firearm needs to be checked for safety, double checked and checked again when in use. Especially when being used by inexperienced people. I have been trying to work out might possibly have gone wrong.
The were making a cowboy film apparently, which I would think limits the sort of firearms they would have used.
I.e black powder pistols, revolvers and lever action rifles.
The former have to be handled and loaded by someone that knows what they are doing, there is potential for it to go horribly wrong even when you know what you are doing. One possibility is a double load of powder placed in one of the chambers and when the cap was placed on the nipple and the trigger pulled the thing blew up. They can also chain fire if powder residue is left on the cylinder. Again the thing can blow up if this happens.
Blank firing revolvers tend to chambered in a proprietary cartridge than means only blanks can be loaded.
Lever action rifles will likely be in a common caliber to ease their use, some quite large, possibly a live round was loaded instead of a blank by mistake? A .44 or .357 would go through 2 people at close range. More historically correct calibers would also have no issue going through the 2 unfortunate victims.
All in all it’s a terrible accident that should not have happened.
It is hard to believe that even in a country awash with guns and ammunition, that live rounds would be on set, or anywhere near it.
Doubtless there will be more details to follow in due course, but it hard to conceive of how the armourer or other sfx and stunt technicians could have got this so wrong.
A bit more info here:
https://theconversation.com/we-are-f...-safety-170455
I remember directing a production in the 1990's where I used the army bomb disposal team to blow up a car for me - the security surrounding that was enormous. Likewise, when guns were on set they came in very securely, with an armourer, were kept in locked metal cases, and endlessly checked before firing a blank. This was in the UK though, and perhaps given our general aversion to guns, security is tighter then in the US - I don't know the answer to that. I guess we'll find out.
Last edited by TheFlyingBanana; 22nd October 2021 at 14:53.
So clever my foot fell off.
I don’t understand why dummy guns can take live rounds of ammunition, i.e. how they are allowed to fit the same gun. That is asking for trouble as we have sadly seen here.
Dummy guns and dummy ammunition should only ever be compatible. Dummy guns and live ammunition should not.
Just like a petrol car. You can’t accidentally fill it with diesel as the nozzle won’t fit. This feels the same as filling a diesel car with petrol.
I suppose, in a culture in which people are seen to get shot every day for entertainment, someone's going to get hurt for real occasionally. Awful. I assume it wasn't Alec Baldwin's fault and it must be very upsetting for him. More so of course for the friends and relatives of the poor woman who lost her life.
I don't think it's been established that a live round was being used, but - the armourer who was interviewed on 5 Live this morning did say that sometimes real firearms are used for filming. Obviously not with the usual ammunition.
If you mean blank firers, then they won't normally chamber rounds with bullets.
If they use a 'live' firearm then it will chamber blanks and rounds with bullets.
I wouldn't want either one pointed at me.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
I've got to conclude that Baldwin was culpable here. Why was he pointing a gun at the cinematographer and pulling the trigger? And how was the film director also badly wounded.
Very strange set of facts...
The whole accident prop gun thing is not ringing true
The coverage by the media is like its already been decided
I don’t think we know that yet? He could well have been waiving it around and it went off, nothing I’ve seen so far to suggest he was aiming it at them
?? I would imagine if they were filming a scene involving him shooting, they might typically have a front-on close up of him pointing and shooting or similar relatively close up action shots. I would imagine that the Cinematographer and or Director, amongst other crew might be in close proximity to the actor during those moments?
Nonsense.
For a tight shot of someone pulling the trigger both the DOP and the director would be very close to the business end of the gun.
The person culpable was the person who put a weapon in Baldwins hand that was capable of killing someone
As with most mistakes at work, it was down to people being tired and over worked.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/new...ing/ar-AAPQrup
Very, very sad for all involved. And a mystery how something like that can happen.
Over the years, Baldwin has been very outspoken about guns, gun control and about people who ended in the same situation like he's in today. I'm sure he'll remember his own words. Making it even more tragically.
Apparently the .45 Colt Single Action Army was a 'live' gun and loaded with 'live' rounds according to https://eu.usatoday.com/story/entert...ow/6132795001/
Unbelievably lax firearm safety measures if so.
Lawsuits will obviously follow if that was the case.
Last edited by oldoakknives; 23rd October 2021 at 09:28.
Why would you have a 1800s period correct handgun loaded with live rounds on a film set? I can't think of a reason.
No idea. But there are plenty of SAA Colts and replicas being used in the USA. Probably more common than blank firers. Perhaps a misunderstanding, no doubt the truth will out.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Looks like the barrel restrictor has come loose ,this would explain both people being hit by what was basically shrapnel .
Even though I was a blank round it still has a good amount of charge behind it.
Reading latest this morning the usual crew (union) walked off set hours before due to disagreements over working conditions,safety and hotel arrangements….
New non union crew took over….
But armour / props was same lady….
One of the Directors took a gun from a table handed it to Baldwin as a (cold gun)….he fired shot at camera as Directed …however it was apparently loaded with a 45 cal or similar live round which went through the cinematographer and then into shoulder of director stood behind her…
So many questions……
Last edited by TKH; 23rd October 2021 at 08:01.
More details of previous issues in this link
https://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...euRIrn84PaSXVY
i must admit I had come to the same conclusion. I did think that a single bullet was fired, hit one person and then ricochet into the other, but that would be a pretty high velocity round. But it still doesn’t explain why he was pointing it at a member of the crew in the first place.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Was pointing it at the camera as required for the shot, not really difficult to explain.
That is understandable. Quite why people were in the way at the time is not so easy to explain.
If you pick a gun up, rule no 1 is check to see if it’s loaded. Rule no 2 is don’t point it at anything you don’t want to kill.
I’m sure mr Baldwin didn’t get up that morning with any intention of things going down the way they did. Maybe he had a props guy who told him it was safe, maybe they did this type of shot a million times in the past and nothing bad ever happened, but the rules are the rules.
Last edited by Groundrush; 23rd October 2021 at 12:41.
Wouldn’t the lady killed be behind (or very near) the camera?
Rule #2 is going to be a bit hard when making movies don't you think
It woudn't require a 'high velocity' round as such. The 45Colt round would be quite capable at such short range, also Colt SAA replicas can be bought in many different calibres, .357 Magnum for example.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
According to the news report below, the armourer was on set but an assistant director picked up one of three weapons from a nearby table and handed it to the actor. If that is true then it's looking like the armourer and assistant director are first under the microscope?
i imagine it is just the culture in hollywood to point the guns in the general direction of where they are told. They must have been standing somewhere in the firing line. If i was Police i would start with looking at the person in charge of the weapons and trying to piece together how the weapon was cheacked and passed as being safe to go
Not a fan of The Departed then?
Or any other movie where actors point guns at eachother.
According to US-based sources, the bullet went through the victim and then hit the second person in the shoulder. Earlier this week, workers on the set walked off (union members). The crew was replaced by non-union members. Before Baldwin discharged the gun, there had been another incident with the same gun on the same set. (LA Times).
It remains a real puzzle but I suspect that Alec Baldwin will attract a degree of blame, ultimately. I don't know what the protocol is but there must be a degree of responsibility on the actor to ensure the weapon is clear.
I doubt scenes with people pointing guns at other people (and sometimes themselves) will disappear from films and TV.
Yes, quite possible at close range with a revolver or pistol.
Sounds like a poor safety regime in place. Will be grist to the mill for the lawyers.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Strikes me, as a former pistol shooter, that pulling the trigger on a weapon without personally verifying it as safe is an absolute failure of responsibility.
There is of course a chain of what should have/was done for filming safety, but the final call still stops with the actor IMO.
A very sad situation indeed, hopefully never to be repeated.
There was a movie armourer on the news last night, and he said its all camera angles, no actor ever points a gun directly at another, at least on any set that is complying with the regs.
For example, in the classic standoff where actors are pointing guns at each others faces at arms length, they are actually staggered a foot or so from facing each other. Then it's filmed side on and so it appears they are aiming directly at each other.
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You can’t quite believe that something like this can happen considering the fact they’re dabbling with guns
There’s probably some stupid unwritten rule……. “It’s simple, the blanks are in the box marked LIVE because everyone will live if we use them, and the live rounds are in the box marked BLANK because that’s your expression when you’re dead. I don’t understand the confusion”
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Nothing surprises me when it comes to guns in that country. Be it a prop on a film set or a toddler finding his mums gun and shooting her in the back by accident. There would of been several accidents since this tragedy already.
If you are a shooter you know the abc of checking a gun before handling it. If you are an actor and not a shooter you will trust the film armourer when he tells you the gun is safe and unless offered specific training will not have a clue of the dos and donts.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
That just can't be right, at least if we're including prop guns that aren't real firearms. There are movie scenes where people have guns pressed against their heads, in their backs, even in their mouths.
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