Reply With QuoteWhen the clocks go back. Why? Because it’s as good as a day as any, and if you do it in under an hour you haven’t wasted any time putting them on.
Ive run them on three cars now, yes people think it’s synonymous with getting grip to start. However its more than that, its steering and braking that are so much more importantOriginally Posted by demonloop
Steve
When the clocks go back. Why? Because it’s as good as a day as any, and if you do it in under an hour you haven’t wasted any time putting them on.
Thanks for the 17:47 heads-up, I'll check my calendar! Answering your question: we went to the pub, the Real G&D or similar, with mates and had this sort of smalltalk.
M
I’ve had this discussion in a pub with mates as well, it usually starts along the lines of “Tooks, you put winter tyres on your car every year don’t you, but we don’t live in the Alps?!”… :-D
M
Ahh those were the days.
M
Don't decry them until you try them.
Did you flip the Traction Control switch to OFF ?
Assuming the car park had produced ice under both rear wheels I'm not sure how the traction control system would have been of benefit?
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
It wouldn't have been of any benefit but as you know, TCS will cut drive to a spinning wheel and you'll go nowhere. Switching it off, at least will get you moving. Speaking from first hand experience of a very similar situation myself. TCS on, unable to move. TCS off, ability to move and get on my way.
In my M3 switching the traction control off just meant the wheels would both spin and I still had no traction whatsoever. I tried everything to get it up that hill including setting off in 2nd and switching the TCS on and off but had to get towed up by the breakdown service. Once I was at the top I was able to drive home. Had it have been a flat surface then possibly but wide, low profile tyres don’t dig in and grip on snow when trying to go up a hill from a standing start. I even let the car go backwards until I was level, reversed a little more then tried going up again in as high a gear as possible to try to minimise wheel spin . I could move forwards until I hit the incline, then couldn’t make any further progress. I had 2 young children at the time and the thought of being stranded miles from home in the middle of a freezing winter wasn’t nice, and I wouldn’t want to be caught out like that again. Hence me buying another set of wheels and winter tyres for my current car.
Honestly when I started this thread I had a genuine question which I hoped other, more experienced members would be able to help me with. I wasn’t expecting it to turn out the way it has. Each to their own I say, we’re all grown ups free to make our own choices.
There is no definitive answer to your question, other than whenever you can. Same WE as back to GMT is a good marker and help you get both sets 6 months each. Remember that winter tyres are very good in wet conditions even if temperature is above 7°C.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Personally I would rather run an all season tyre; or even a winter tyre all year than a summer tyre. Both still perform well in warm and dry conditions but are better in heavy rain and as others have said far better when 7C or below. They are night and day apart in frost and snow. Due to the pandemic we left our winter tyres on this year and they were superb as an all rounder and I didn’t notice any appreciable extra wear.
Maybe you just own the wrong vehicle?
Last winter I chucked four 20kg bags of sand into the boot of my 3-series (running summer 255 tyres iirc), gearbox in manual and TC off got me everywhere with zero drama, including 4” of fresh snow in our back lane. It’s not rocket science.
Another one with the wrong car for the job.
Laws of physics haven’t changed, front heel drive and skinny tyres are the best combination in snow and slush.
If I needed to drive in winter I wouldn’t own a Jaguar automatic with fat tyres..........same argument applies to Beemers. Front wheel drive and winter tyres is the best modern compromise, or 4WD.
Relying on putting 80kg of sand in the boot is mindless!
I have multiple cars. But thanks for your insight, most helpful.
Respectfully, and strictly speaking, a lower temperature compound rubber and sipes on the tread pattern are the best things for driving in snow and slush, ie a winter or all season tyre.
Most people compromise and drive with whatever they have fitted, I get that, but there is just a better way to do things sometimes.
Not sure why so many have a view on people doing something that impacts them not one jot.
I’m struggling to understand quite a few peoples ideas on traction control here, some comments don’t seem to make a lot of sense.
I’m sure as most of you know TC utilises the vehicles ABS system which is essentially wheel speed sensors and a brake pump. Loss of traction is picked up by the wheel speed sensor in the form of an increase of speed detect at any given wheel. As the others wheels are slower the ABS system will do all it can to slow the faster wheel down to roughly match the others. This isn’t just done once, the wheel just doesn’t lock up and that’s it, the brake pump will pulse many times to bring the wheel down to a controlled speed, this will obviously aid traction as it tries to prevent slippage of the wheel.
Now back to the OPs questions, despite what all the winter driving experts are sayings the ones that have never had any need, never had an accident in 10000000 years of driving etc if I had winter tyres I’d be getting them on now and keeping them on until spring. We’ll have another 500 posts yet about not needing them but that is essentially the answer you’re after.
Last edited by Franky Four Fingers; 22nd October 2021 at 01:12.
I'm thinking of starting a 'winter rubber watch strap thread'
Do you think it might gain traction?
I see what you did there 👍🏻
When I lived there the Germans said “O through O” for their winter tyre wear (Oktober through Oester(Easter) which always worked for me.
As for the need for winter tyres there’s a provable benefit in braking distances under 7degrees etc but those that think they know better will always know better. I’ve always ran winter tyres on my cars since returning from Germany where, during a winter snowstorm I drove an old 911 back from Hannover airport to the middle of nowhere without missing a beat. YMMV.
How very predictable. These threads always go the same way. 😂
The flat earthers will always claim the earth is flat.
Yes. The car park was sheet ice and I just couldn’t get any traction. After that I had a couple of bags of cement in the boot for extra weight.
Whilst winter tyres are a great help, I found that on ice, the car would still slide. Your driving needs to reflect the road and weather conditions regardless of the tyres fitted.
OP - I tended to put my winters on once there had been a few days of the temperature dipping below 5 degrees.
Run 2 identical cars with different tyres. Saves swapping tyres every Winter.
Put them on now and take them off in April! It will be a bad winter as this is the first time in years I don’t have winter tyres to swap onto so. Also this vision of 4x4s being good in bad weather is just an illusion, wide low profiles are as bad in snow and ice as they are on mud not worth the money. Even 4x4s need the proper tyre for the job.
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
I bought a set of Audi wheels with winter tyres off this very forum about 5 years ago, they went on my A3 at the time through 2 winters and now they will be going on the Octavia for a third time, think they have seen snow twice!
Reason I put them on is they are XL rated and so much stronger than my Goodyear’s, any rough roads, pot holes, muddy tracks and of course snow or ice they just eat up, just great tyres for a bit of rough..
It was a 3 series BMW that lost control going down a hill in snow in winter and smashed into the back of my car! Sticking anything in the boot isn't going to provide any help in gaining control going downhill, quite the contrary.
I do laugh at some of the responses in this thread generally. Reminds me a bit of Vettel choosing to have a go on slicks in the last GP and lasting 2 laps before coming back in to change. I'd applaud anyone that uses winter tyres as they are doing something which improves the safety of their car in Winter conditions. I've run some of my cars with winter tyres and not bothered with others where I'm either not using it a lot or for instance they aren't 315/35/21 RWD ice polishing machines. As others have said, if you've never tried them don't knock them.
OP - as others have said, I'd switch over whenever the temperature drops consistently below 7 degrees for the time you use the car. So when I was leaving home early, driving home late that would mean an earlier switch than someone that typically drives the car in the warmer middle part of the day.
Why flat earthers? I learnt to drive in the police having a 6 week driving course in the winter through to January. It involved night shifts & driving in the Lake District in winter.
Driving on ice, learning skid control etc.
I passed advanced tests, speed driving, commentary driving.
Spent time in road traffic dealing with incidents. Have you?
Winter conditions have never bothered me... just other drivers.
I don't use winter tyres, but I did when I lived in Germany for a while, November to March was about right there (possibly even a legal requirement in Bavaria - ETA, no it's just mandatory in snowy or icy conditions, so you could switch them around on a daily basis if you were so inclined, most aren't).
I had a pair of proper winter tyres on the front of a FWD car for a whole year once, understeer was hilarious when they started to wear out, but I imagine modern winter tyres are better all-round now, all-season tyres are probably a good choice for most people/cars in most of the UK.
You can tell Autumn's arrived when it starts getting chilly in the evenings and mornings, it's dark when you wake and go to bed and the folks of TZUK start calling each other names over the tyres they use...
M
Last edited by snowman; 22nd October 2021 at 11:35.
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
I'd like to see you and your Police training drive a BMW M4 on summer tyres up a steep hill covered in snow and ice, no amount of training will get you to the top.
I’d agree there’s no need for name calling.
Since austerity started biting all public services, police included, this probably applies to the decision around whether to fit emergency services vehicles with appropriate tyres.
1. If it doesn't have to be done by law it won't be done
2. If it costs more money do do things properly or safely it won't be done unless [see 1]
That said, I’ve been in and around many police forces over the last couple of decades and many forces are fitting them to more vehicles, and some local health authorities are fitting all season tyres as standard to ambulances to cover those times when they’ll be needed.
You’ve been trained, and extensively so by the sounds of it, by the police and have plenty of experience.
As joe public can’t benefit from that same training, should we not just encourage people to fit appropriate tyres so that even places like the M11 don’t become car parks whenever we get a bit of snow?
The fact that the right tyres will keep you mobile in more road conditions is beyond doubt, nobody is forced to purchase winter/all season tyres and use them, but many people including those that bother you so much would benefit from it.
This is what I really do not understand with Rod. I have no doubt he went through this extensive training, nor that he assisted far too many RTA victims. And yet he concludes that as he did not need them, neither should anyone…
Yet we all know the country comes to a standstill at the first flurry.
So, what gives?
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Like Rod I am an ex professionally trained blue light driver, albeit Fire Service. I think his point is that a lot of drivers have very poor skills.
F.T.F.A.
Which is a different point really.
Hey, we’re all great drivers right, it’s everybody else that are idiots.
I think there are still benefits by fitting a more appropriate tyre when it gets cold/wet/icy/snowy, over and above a basic skill level.
I’ve been driving for 35 years, have benefited from a little blue light training to a basic standard through an old job, and still found myself stuck through no fault of my own or skill level, which I’m happy to admit might be below yourself and Rod’s.
Because regardless of whatever evidence is presented to them (be it scientific, empirical, anecdotal etc etc), flat earthers will still insist that the earth is flat.
The parallels here are uncanny.
Got all season Yokohama BluEarth4S on ours because they didn’t do the cross climates in the right size. I leave them in year round and they’ve been fantastic, was out in deep snow up on the moorlands and traction held well throughout.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
A skilled chef with loads of experience can prepare perfectly sliced vegetables in seconds with nothing more than a sharp knife, chopping board and bare hands. I'm allowed in the kitchen and sometimes near the knives but if I tried that trick I'd probably slice a digit off, so I use a mandolin.
Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH
Good point, M.
Every winter, our local lanes are full of big 4x4s in hedges.
My view is that:
1. The biggest factor is knowing how to drive in such conditions. If there's heavy snow and ice then in addition you should know your route well. This means you know which side of the road is dodgy or which lane is risky - take the long way around (or get a taxi - IME, they know the limits of their cars well).
2. A secondary factor is a car with better grip - not just from its tyres but in the way it channels power to its wheels. Part or full time 4x4 is so much easier.
3. A distant third place is winter tyres over summer tyres. There will be an improvement but if you can't navigate it in summer tyres then you're likely to be near the edge of grip with winter tyres - maybe you shouldn't be driving at all in those conditions.
4. The exception is if you're used to driving in such conditions and you know that whatever extra grip winter tyres offer is the edge you need. Those of you who live in areas where snow and ice are common will be advocates because you know it provides a clear advantage.
5. Don't forget that winter tyres perform worse in stopping tests in warmer weather. So if you do have them you need to judge when to swap them back to summer.
6. If you think you need winter tyres it might be worth seeing if cross-climates will suit you. Obviously a compromise but less hassle.
Last edited by AlphaOmega; 23rd October 2021 at 09:32.
I managed to take the tip of a finger off using a mandolin incorrectly, which kind of illustrates point 3
Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH
I managed to take the tip of a finger off using a mandolin incorrectly, which kind of illustrates point 3
I tried with a guitar once, but ended up in a right mess. It was a bugger to clean and I had to restring it.
All due respect AO, but point 3 is wholly inaccurate.
I am a taxi driver and do drive in snow whenever it comes down and I can tell you hands down that winter tyres should be point number 1 not 3.
Winter tyres trump being a good driver or knowing the roads well.
I once sailed past another taxi driver who came to a standstill on a hill without so much as a wheel spin. My passenger was flabbergasted at the ease with which I climbed the hill and he told me he owned a land rover defender.
I was a sceptic myself until one winter when I was slipping and sliding on the snow, I decided to take the plunge and pop to the local tyre fitting centre and pop two winter tyres on the front of my car ‘just to see’ I know it’s not the recommended thing to do but having seen the MASSIVE difference they made I went back the following day and stuck two on the rear.
I’ve never been without winter tyres since.
Is there something in the guitar case?
Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH
Never change my tyres here in the U.K. I just drive according to the road conditions.
To echo jaytip, I recall when we were building our current house, it was snowing and given the location (up a hill on a country road) I thought there was no way the builders would get to it
It took me 30 mins of spinning to get to the house to discover half a dozen vans there. Enquiring how, they all laughed and pointed out their winter tyres. I went there and then to the local tyre depot and got two fronts fitted and sailed up the hill until the snow left
They make a remarkable difference
Well, hopefully you know me by now Jay - if someone has better evidence then I always change my mind.
I think in this case perhaps we need to quantify what bad driving means. If we can do that, I'm willing to change the order if you still think it's required.
By bad driving, I mean the kinds of drivers who do not alter their driving for the conditions. That's why around here (South East) it's pretty much all RRs and Cayennes in the hedges as even their advanced tech can't prevent such mass from having an accident.
What I mean is the kinds of drivers who change gear in a manual car on a slippery bend when they're near the edge of grip.
I don't mean a generally good driver. I mean one who has literally no extra skill in the snow.
Is it OK to keep the order as is or should we move them around?
Love it.Is there something in the guitar case?
By the way, it is possible to use a flute as a drinking straw.
I hear a Clydesdale is a decent option.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The centre of gravity is way too high. Poor traction from those big steel-shod hooves, as well.
It's a Shetland pony you want.
______
Jim.
So do I, but sometimes the conditions outdo the grip your standard tyres can find, that’s the problem.
Posting Permissions
