"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
We live on a new estate, still building roughly 70% complete, all houses good old fashioned boilers with hot and cold pressurised water tanks.So no progress in N. Wales
Two years ago we stayed in a National Trust holiday let. It was a very large detached bungalow heated with a AS heatpump. A couple of observations
The radiators were huge! Eg 6 inches deep and wide.
The water in the rads apparently only heated upto 70 deg C , so they were always hot to touch , but certainly not toasty warm.
The controller had a “ boost” button which ran for 60 mins and certainly warmed the place up fast , Im not sure what it did or how it did this ;)
The bungalow also had numerous fan and oil filled radiators dotted around the place.
The AS units were two very large Mitsubishi type units bolted to an outside wall. Their location would need to be considered on a property as they were just like AC units and not easy on the eye.
Last edited by higham5; 19th October 2021 at 19:25.
Same with my partners valliant, there is a local guy who only works on them, took one look and said “the best they ever made, brass internals, no plastic, never replaced a pressure vessel in one, don’t get rid of it”
Pumped up the pressure vessel, fitted a new valve, paid him £160. This after British Gas wanted over 5k as they needed a cherry picker to fit a new flue if we had a new one fitted.
But it makes sense that those who can afford it top up the difference at this stage. As a result costs will drop and lower income families will eventually get one.
Anyway it’s hardly a benefit, combi’s do a great job (by the sounds better). The benefit is to society, so whether low/high income have them at the start doesn’t really matter.
Only other option is the Government buys the entire country a new boiler.
I think like most things that have a generous government grant attached, heatpumps will stay a lot more expensive for longer than they need to be.
A guy I know has imported his own heat pump of Chinese origin, costs less than the grant being talked about, does a good job apparently.
I’ve looked at them, and solar panels with a battery bank, payback looks like it’s multiple decades unless energy prices really go astronomical.
Last edited by Tooks; 19th October 2021 at 20:55. Reason: Typos
My next door neighbour has one for his swimming pool. Fking noisey
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
I wonder if the grant will just inflate the price of the equipment, with car chargers it works against the consumer, they are £1-200 bits of kit, but all of the sellers inflate the price to £7-800 installed to soak up the grant, obviously sellers are making fortunes out of it.
Have a look at Roger Bisby on Youtube it might surprise you.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhAKMAcmJFg
What beggars belief is the ignorance to reply to a comment before finishing the thread. As such you can read back for clarification. But to précis ; there is very little benefit to the individual in buying a heat pump, it is a societal gain. So let the wealthier top it up at this stage with the hope technology will reduce in cost and improve in quality.
And again, do you want the Government to buy everyone a new boiler?
Also, remember, a heat pump might cost 12k but manners are free
Last edited by Rodder; 20th October 2021 at 09:59.
Great subject and thanks Adrian re your ceiling mount AC units which has spurred me on….
Having done some further research on options for heating and cooling and wanting to be less reliant on my gas boiler….i am drawn to “air to air” AC / heat pump options…which have advanced massively…
Seems quite straightforward that I should be able to install one in our downstairs lounge diner effectively an AC unit that also does blown warm air ? So heat and have benefits of much needed AC in summer , its a 500 sqft room approximately would something like this do the job ?…
https://www.appliancesdirect.co.uk/p...ir-conditioner
I agree, the whole heat pump thing isn't viable for the vast majority of us.
When I first moved into this house I looked at ground source heat and was told it wasn't viable because we are in a bungalow and the walls where the radiators are currently located are too small for the size of radiator needed.
I've also got a friend who has installed air source heat and the amount of physical changes he had to make was astounding - new bigger radiators, shed for the fan thing (condenser?), new water tank cupboard etc etc. Plus a set of levers in the water tank cupboard that would get a cathedral organist excited.
Thanks but no thanks. Its not for me.
Last edited by barreti; 20th October 2021 at 13:43.
You did well there. £5.1k here for a new Vaillant system boiler moved into the bathroom from downstairs with the gas pipe routed under the house instead of around the outside.
That didn't include anything to do with the megaflow, which was already in place, and I still have to pay the same donkey another £150-£190 to install an extra two Nests so we can heat each floor individually.
Also went oversized on the rads too. Rather have overkill running low than regular maxed out.
Just another thing to add, if you have one fitted, be prepared to offend/upset your neighbours too. I have just discovered this myself by bumping into my neighbour, it was only fitted yesterday. Anyway, they’ll have to lump it, its down the side of the house (alley way between both detached houses, 4 foot wide each side and fenced down the middle). Oh well, you can’t please all the people all the time.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-58959045
Listened to a radio advert this morning about heat pumps, pretty convinced I never heard the advert state anything other than reducing your carbon footprint. Nothing about installation costs, running costs or will it reduce your heating bills which for almost everyone in the UK will be the driving force.
Pie in the sky figures again from the government I feel.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Part 2 here, https://youtu.be/pFl8jcLOiP8
At that point they hadn’t heard it, it was the sight of it. Apparently it spoils their view; like the blank brickwork side of my house is some kind of wonderful view! Its the side window of their kitchen to let some light in, the rear window affords a nice view over the fields at the back. If they enjoy looking out the side window they must be nuts.
The system was commissioned today, it is honestly so quiet I could barely hear it at all, we live at the end of a quiet cul-de-sac, so its a quiet area. You could hear a mouse pass wind over the compressor fan!
I thought this was interesting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhAKMAcmJFg
Ahh late to the party I see :)
Our boiler has just packed up and I was considering an ASHP. It’s worth knowing that if the unit (or housing) is bigger than 0.6 cubic meters then you may need planning permission to install it. Also it can’t be closer than 1m to your boundary and various other rules.
https://www.planningportal.co.uk/inf...7/heat_pumps/2
It didn’t make sense for us at this stage due to cost and the lack of decent insulation in our house, plus no suitable external wall where it would comply with the guidance above.
Last edited by SlipperySam; 21st October 2021 at 07:58.
Try turning your combi down to minimum setting and if that’s sufficient to heat your house then a air source pump may be sufficient. Otherwise spend thousands to insulate your home to sufficient standards + new rads, pipe work etc. No thanks!
I’m not sure really as the only suitable position would be on the front elevation which I wouldn’t want plus we live in a Conservation Area so planning permission isn’t a certainty. I’d imagine local authorities are under pressure not to refuse applications for ASHPs though.
I think solar panels would be an issue for us too for the same reasons.
Last edited by SlipperySam; 21st October 2021 at 09:11.
I just checked, the Vaillant boiler we have been quoted will run on up to 20 hydrogen mix with natural gas. I'm not sure how this works as obviously the gas supplier sticks whatever they want down the pipe, the user has no control over it, so all boilers must be like this, so maybe just marketing.
Okay, 20% might work. Pure hydrogen is probably a long way off https://www.vaillant.co.uk/homeowner...edge/hydrogen/
Relatively easy to switch over in new 'villages' with suitable boilers but in others existing boilers could become redundant overnight and changeover will have to be enforced.
IMO electric heating would be far simpler and don't see it being dearer to generate than hydrogen.
There are a lot of challenges with hydrogen. Green hydrogen is not available at scale today and the UK lacks the necessary gas storage facilities.
I’m starting to ask the same question. Producing ‘green’ electricity on a huge scale would solve all the problems.
Maybe the way forward is a combination of heat pumps (supplemented by electrical heating where necessary), hydrogen gas, and straightforward electrical heating, or maybe we simply retain natural gas usage where it’s the sensible answer. A one size fits all solution doesn’t look feasible.
Being cynical I can’t help thinking the politicians are looking for maximum publicity by making sweeping statements of intent. Carbon- neutral is a dramatic statement, doing what’s feasible to reduce carbon emissions by 70% doesn’t have the same ring to it.
We will never be carbon neutral in the time span they have quoted, and they won't be in power to defend it anyway, so it is very much a publicity stunt, trouble is, it hits the pocket of those that can ill afford it.
Insulation is the first key measure needed in any environment, without that you're just wasting energy, but that will cost a huge amount to achieve and probably not achieve the publicity they so desire, and it will prove the road blockers right, and they really don't want to do that.