Reply With QuoteSuper thing, good luck with the solution!
OK, not really watch related but I do know that there’ll be a few on here who’ll be able to give me some good advice.
Following the untimely passing of an Auntie, I have been given my grandfathers old compass which I am informed he kept with him and used during his time as a desert rat in WW2.
The only problem is, it contains quite a bit if Radium which I know isn’t that good for a person.
I had a little google up and found a video recommending the removal of the mirror, but I don’t really want to take it to bits and/or risk damaging it. I have quite literally nothing else to remember him by and I’d like to stick this away for my grandkids one day.
Would anyone have any advice as to the best way to store it safely?? I am thinking this could be as simple as wrapping it in tinfoil rather than putting it I to a lead lined case, but I really to want to tuck it away as a keepsake. Any advice or ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Here is a quick photo of the offending item!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Super thing, good luck with the solution!
Here is a link to the best advice that I can find online: Could your collectible item contain radium?
You will read that separation (from people) and ventilation are important factors for storage. If you are prepared for this then your compass should present a minimal risk so long as you keep it intact.
As a private individual you will not be subject to the same regulatory oversight as a museum, but their experience may illustrate the issue for you. See Managing Small Radioactive Collections.
Searching for my previous posts I found:
....and this: linkOriginally Posted by alfat33
Last edited by PickleB; 31st October 2021 at 05:41.
And don't forget to buy a geiger counter. Just so you know where you're at.
Sent from my ANE-LX1 using Tapatalk
My old science professro, Richard Hutchings PHD, speaking about radiation once, told the story of watchmakers who used to paint luminous dials and would lick the tips.of the brushes to make them sharper and as a result many lost their teeth and got gum cancer.
Also, my favourite, if you took a long exposure photo (over night) of a radium watch from the case back, in the dark, you would be able to see it and see through it as the radiation went through movement and hands, like x rays.
It's what got me into watches, really.
Sent from my ANE-LX1 using Tapatalk
This subject has come up before: I forget the exact details now but there were some threads and some quantitative measurements of the radiation output of a WW2 Panerai watch (amongst other things).
I did my own rough calculations and if I remember correctly I decided that, at the levels shown, I'd have no concerns about owning such a watch or wearing it from time to time. But I'd store it away from people and I wouldn't wear it on a daily basis.
There were some useful inputs in the thread(s) from some knowledgeable people.
Even at a realistically higher output, I don't think there'd be any need to dismantle a radium-lumed device. Just store it away from people.
I'll try and find the thread (or threads).
** Update **
Here are the threads I recalled:-
https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...soning-In-1961
https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...-Off-the-scale
https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...dialed-watches
In particular, I found this comment by Plake set things in context:
https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...=1#post2846650
Last edited by markrlondon; 31st October 2021 at 08:56. Reason: Updated
Further to my comment above...
In general there are three types of ionising radiation given off by radioactive elements: Alpha particles, beta particles and gamma rays.
To the best of my knowledge, radium (and its decay chain products) can give off all three types.
Blocking alpha and beta particles is near-trivial. Paper will stop alpha particles and a wooden box (or skin!) will stop beta particles.
Gamma rays however will penetrate a lot further. Aluminium foil won't stop them much. See the earlier threads I linked to as to how a WW2 Panerai, for example, emits significant radiation through its metal case back. That will mainly be gamma rays.
You don't need to go as far as lead shielding but a metallic box will certainly attenuate some of the gamma rays coming off your compass. However, the most useful way of protecting people from radiation is distance. Radiation intensity reduces with distance according to the inverse square law.
Simply keeping the compass away from people on a day to day basis will be adequate, I'd think.
So, if it were me, I'd keep it in a metal box and store it in, say, a spare room away from where people usually stay for long periods of time.
Also: I referred to "decay chain products" above and this is significant. When radioactive elements decay they transmute from one element to another. Radium decays into radon, amongst other things. Elemental radon is a gas and so it may be sensible to keep the compass in a reasonably well ventilated area although it's probably not going to be a big deal.
In short (again, if it were me) I'd keep the compass, store it as above, take it out and look at it from time to time, show it to kids, but (like the Panerai I commented on in one of the previous threads) I just wouldn't want to wear it/use it on a regular basis.
Also, all this is said without knowing what the actual radiation output of this compass is. I'd be very tempted to buy a radiation detector so I could get a quantitative measure of how much it's really putting out. It would also be fun to show people. ;-)
N.B. As I said in one of the previous threads quoted above, I'm neither a physicist nor a doctor. This is just my take on it from A-level physics 30+ years ago and some calculations based upon the WW2 Panerai measured in one of the previous threads.
I wouldn’t be worried about the radium on that. It’s the radon gas that might give me some concern. Wrap it in a couple of sealable bags & then put that in an airtight container. Keep it in a well-ventilated room. Open the box outside where there is plenty of fresh air for the radon to dissipate before enjoying it.
Thanks all. A fair bit of reading here - so that’s this afternoon sorted! I should point out that I’m not planning on using the compass, it’s just that I’d like to tuck it away (in tact) for the future to pull out one day and show the kids/grandkids.
Thanks to everyone for the advice and links thus far.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Store it in a box, and when opening box for viewing do so outside so that the radon build up if there is any can escape.
Should be fine, and its a lovely heirloom!
Make that a plastic or metal box? The radioactive products of Ra decay spread as they are at first gaseous (Radon) and then, through further decay, solid. These 'plate out' on surfaces that they contact and I'd rather deal with cleaning up a plastic or metal box than something made of cardboard. Depending upon the seal, plastic / metal would also do a better job or containing the gases than would cardboard.
Edit And mark the box with a trefoil warning label plus instructions as to what is within and how to treat it, eg open in well ventilated area outside of your breathing zone, preferably using disposable gloves, minimise handling overall, etc etc. Thus anyone else coming across the box is informed of what to do and what it contains and the OP has exercised a duty of care towards other people should he not be present.
Last edited by PickleB; 31st October 2021 at 13:23.
Yes, id say metal or plastic was a given.
The markers dont appear damaged or degraded within the case of the compass so thats a good thing.
I think it’s this bit that’s the problem - it’s a big old lump of radium that’s not under any kind of screen.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ahhh I didn't see that!!I think it’s this bit that’s the problem - it’s a big old lump of radium that’s not under any kind of screen.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Do you have a shed/garage?
Indeed I do.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Posting Permissions
