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Thread: RIP David Amess MP

  1. #51
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanford View Post
    I suspect his views and voting record will have been determined by his religious beliefs rather than the colour of his party.
    His religious beliefs dictated to gut social security?

    https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10...ns?policy=6670
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  2. #52
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    Well the man may not have been the nicest;
    Absolutely nobody deserves the end he met
    The perpetrator has been detained under the terror act also
    What the hell is wrong with people in the country, so cowardly!


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  3. #53
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Can’t believe the nasty turn this thread has taken tbh.
    The last thing I would have thought about when Jo Cox was murdered, would have been to check her voting records to see if she was worthy of my sympathy.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Stanford View Post
    I suspect his views and voting record will have been determined by his religious beliefs rather than the colour of his party.
    So made up hypocritical fantasy stuff then…doesn’t make it any better

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Can’t believe the nasty turn this thread has taken tbh.
    The last thing I would have thought about when Jo Cox was murdered, would have been to check her voting records to see if she was worthy of my sympathy.
    It’s nuts isn’t it


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  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Can’t believe the nasty turn this thread has taken tbh.
    The last thing I would have thought about when Jo Cox was murdered, would have been to check her voting records to see if she was worthy of my sympathy.
    The issue isnt about not giving sympathy to his family it is the push back against trying to make out he was a some kind of saintly decent and kind man. No one deserves to be murdered as we are all complex in our thoughts and feelings but he actually had direct opportunities to improve peoples lives and he actively made then worse!

  7. #57
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paw3001 View Post
    The issue isnt about not giving sympathy to his family it is the push back against trying to make out he was a some kind of saintly decent and kind man. No one deserves to be murdered as we are all complex in our thoughts and feelings but he actually had direct opportunities to improve peoples lives and he actively made then worse!
    This.
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  8. #58
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paw3001 View Post
    The issue isnt about not giving sympathy to his family it is the push back against trying to make out he was a some kind of saintly decent and kind man. No one deserves to be murdered as we are all complex in our thoughts and feelings but he actually had direct opportunities to improve peoples lives and he actively made then worse!
    I could no doubt say the same about Jo Cox’s voting records if I disagreed with how she voted.
    Luckily I don’t share the Rayneresque black and white view of people.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  9. #59
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Anyway this is no longer an RIP thread, so probably should be moved.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  10. #60

    RIP David Amess MP

    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    I could no doubt say the same about Jo Cox’s voting records if I disagreed with how she voted.
    Luckily I don’t share the Rayneresque black and white view of people.
    Hmmm go on then and you are hell bent on missing the point about sanctifying Ames’s

    https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25...and_spen/votes

    Compare her voting on health and welfare versus His and who do you conclude had more consideration for poor people’s plight?
    Last edited by paw3001; 16th October 2021 at 23:48.

  11. #61
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paw3001 View Post
    Missed the point again haven’t you?
    No, I think I understood your point perfectly actually. You just wanted to have a dig at a Tory and saw an opportunity.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  12. #62

    RIP David Amess MP

    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    No, I think I understood your point perfectly actually. You just wanted to have a dig at a Tory and saw an opportunity.
    Where was the dig? That he was a Tory enabler in the most corrupt Government in living memory?

    Maybe if that upset you, you should look to change your party’s behaviour on working to divide society as they have not made any effort, apart from crap slogans, to try and unite the UK rather than focus on the base of their base support.
    Last edited by paw3001; 16th October 2021 at 23:53.

  13. #63
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Anyway this is no longer an RIP thread, so probably should be moved.
    If the thread is moved to the Bear Pit, will your posts disappear?
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  14. #64
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paw3001 View Post
    Where was the dig? That he was a Tory enabler in the most corrupt Government in living memory?

    Maybe if that upset you, you should look to change your party’s behaviour on working to divide society as they have not made any effort, apart from crap slogans, to try and unite the UK rather than focus on the base of their base support.
    Since it's the G&D, and a RIP thread, I'll leave it here and won't reply. Enjoy.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  15. #65
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    If the thread is moved to the Bear Pit, will your posts disappear?
    Hopefully. Apparently I play the man too much, something you wouldn't know anything about.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  16. #66
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    No, I think I understood your point perfectly actually. You just wanted to have a dig at a Tory and saw an opportunity.
    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Hopefully. Apparently I play the man too much, something you wouldn't know anything about.

    You couldn't make it up.
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  17. #67
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    You couldn't make it up.
    I was replying to the rather condescending post by paw3001, who has rather conveniently edited his post now. But hey carry on.

    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  18. #68
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paw3001 View Post
    Hmmm go on then and you are hell bent on missing the point about sanctifying Ames’s

    https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25...and_spen/votes

    Compare her voting on health and welfare versus His and who do you conclude had more consideration for poor people’s plight?




    Nice edit.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  19. #69
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Anyway, I'm out, I see no need for all this on an RIP thread as I said earlier. Justify away.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  20. #70
    There I was thinking we weren’t supposed to discus politics in the George.

  21. #71

    RIP David Amess MP

    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post


    Nice edit.
    Yes I did edit but what you do not mention was that edit was literally a minute after my original post and before I even saw your lightening response! The fact is you replied as I was editing and I never saw your response until I had finished my edit shows how quick you responded to my initial post, I felt that was strange for someone who said they felt the conversation was distasteful to be camping out on the thread ready to respond asap, especially as then then ignore the times which they knew as they were camping to try and make it sound as something sinister

    In any case, I felt I could provide more context and I still highlight that you missed the point which you continue to demonstrate. Now you just show how disingenuous you are as well. Thanks.

  22. #72
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    No one deserves to die like this so RIP.

    I don’t care for his political views and I don’t think he’s the person the media are painting him to be but that is more the agenda of the media.

  23. #73
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paw3001 View Post
    Yes I did edit but what you do not mention was that edit was literally a minute after my original post and before I even saw your lightening response! The fact is you replied as I was editing and I never saw your response until I had finished my edit shows how quick you responded to my initial post, I felt that was strange for someone who said they felt the conversation was distasteful to be camping out on the thread ready to respond asap, especially as then then ignore the times which they knew as they were camping to try and make it sound as something sinister

    In any case, I felt I could provide more context and I still highlight that you missed the point which you continue to demonstrate. Now you just show how disingenuous you are as well. Thanks.
    My ‘lightening’ response was five minutes after you posted. I was reading another thread in between. So no I wasn’t ‘camping on the thread.
    Your edit was six minutes after you posted not ‘literally a minute after’ your original post. The times are there to see.
    So actually you’re the one being disingenuous.

    I think I understood the point you were making perfectly. You simply wanted to have a go at David Amess.
    You’re the one trying to justify your comments by claiming “That he was a Tory enabler in the most corrupt Government in living memory?”
    You and others have turned an RIP thread into a political one and now attack me for pointing it out.
    I await your edit.

  24. #74
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    The murder of a serving politician was always going to bring politics to the discussion.

  25. #75
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Go take a walk.

    As usually, you are making it up. Nobody is turning this into an attack. Some have merely pointed out that Amess was not the caring and empathetic man who is being described in the media. That is not an attack on him, but a correction of facts. You have chosen to be upset about it, for reasons that you only know.
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  26. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    Go take a walk.

    As usually, you are making it up. Nobody is turning this into an attack. Some have merely pointed out that Amess was not the caring and empathetic man who is being described in the media. That is not an attack on him, but a correction of facts. You have chosen to be upset about it, for reasons that you only know.
    Eh?

  27. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    No, I think I understood your point perfectly actually. You just wanted to have a dig at a Tory and saw an opportunity.
    It's nothing new on here, judging by some comments.Poor reading.
    Eddie should take this down. Not the place to have a political slant on a murdered man.

  28. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Eh?
    Not for you.

    The gentlemen before you, who choose to be upset on behalf...
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  29. #79
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    Go take a walk.

    As usually, you are making it up. Nobody is turning this into an attack. Some have merely pointed out that Amess was not the caring and empathetic man who is being described in the media. That is not an attack on him, but a correction of facts. You have chosen to be upset about it, for reasons that you only know.
    Hardly a ‘correction of facts’. Simply your view on his politics.

    Many saw him as very caring and empathetic apparently. So views differ.

    “Members of Southend’s Muslim community paid tribute to Sir David, with Ruhul Shamsuddin, joint secretary of Essex Jamme Masjid, describing the MP as a “tremendous force for good and pillar of support for our community”.”

    “Meanwhile, an Iranian opposition group has paid tribute to Sir David, describing him as a “human rights champion” and an “enemy of many dictators”.


    https://uk.news.yahoo.com/muslims-.html
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  30. #80
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    As always, you are the final authority on truth. Please accept my sincere apologies, you were right and everybody else was wrong.
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  31. #81
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    It's nothing new on here, judging by some comments.Poor reading.
    Eddie should take this down. Not the place to have a political slant on a murdered man.
    I agree. If that’s what they want it should be done in the BP.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  32. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by beechcustom View Post
    Not at all but it certainly wouldn't make him one of the good guys imo.

    Which bit of my post were you struggling with? Where did I suggest he was some sort of saint. I simply said no one deserved to die in that manner.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  33. #83
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    Tricky one he's a politician. Rip to the bloke, thoughts and prayers to hs family despite his voting against the rights of gay people...give him the benefit of the doubt as he's dead ... but it's the job he chose, the herd's getting increasingly jittery what with all the various problems society is taking on the chin, some Administration generated/ others global, there's a lot of nutters roaming the streets and GB's a very stabby place, it can happen to anyone, anytime, I know, for any or no reason.
    They the MP's like to bask in the glory, no surprise that they also attract opprobrium and the mentalists.
    Last edited by Passenger; 17th October 2021 at 09:22.

  34. #84
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    Go take a walk.

    As usually, you are making it up. Nobody is turning this into an attack……
    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    As always, you are the final authority on truth. Please accept my sincere apologies, you were right and everybody else was wrong.
    You couldn’t make it up.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  35. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    No one deserves to die like this so RIP.

    I don’t care for his political views and I don’t think he’s the person the media are painting him to be but that is more the agenda of the media.
    Oh, how well did you know him?

  36. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Since it's the G&D, and a RIP thread, I'll leave it here and won't reply. Enjoy.
    Ha ha still waiting for you to keep your word. I suppose we will be waiting a long time.

    By the way, my original post always at 24:42, your reply went in at 23:47 and my more extensive edit went in at 23:48. I don’t suppose TZ tracks seconds but what do you think I was doing between 23:42 and 23:48?

    If I was editing my post due to your reply at 23:47 then I must be the the fastest Google searcher (rivalling the Raffe!) as well as a speed reading expert followed by being the fastest typist in the World.

    You are very foolish but then we all know that!

  37. #87
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paw3001 View Post
    Ha ha still waiting for you to keep your word. I suppose we will be waiting a long time.

    By the way, my original post always at 24:42, your reply went in at 23:47 and my more extensive edit went in at 23:48. I don’t suppose TZ tracks seconds but what do you think I was doing between 23:42 and 23:48?

    If I was editing my post due to your reply at 23:47 then I must be the the fastest Google searcher (rivalling the Raffe!) as well as a speed reading expert followed by being the fastest typist in the World.

    You are very foolish but then we all know that!
    My point was that it was five minutes between your post and my reply. Hardly a ‘lightening’ reply as you stated.

    Quote Originally Posted by paw3001 View Post
    ………

    You are very foolish but then we all know that!
    Yawn….
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  38. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    I find that his voting record on education, equality, human and gay rights says much more about the type of person he was. If he had empathy for animals, he apparently had none for children.

    I am obviously not saying that justifies his murder, there is nothing that would ever justify that. But I don't think he was a nice person.
    On his attitude to gay rights: I share your disdain, but people inculcated into the Catholic faith from a young age are nearly always going to have that point of view, no matter how personally pleasant they may be. With respect to the other factors you mention, that's just a political perspective. I'm sure he would have argued, in my view not wrongly, that his approach to these matters were considerably more likely to benefit society, and indeed children, than yours.

    Yesterday even the Labour MP Jess Phillips referred to him as "lovely David" in a tweet. I don't think a Tory could get that from someone as sour and caustic as Jess without being genuinely a very nice man.

  39. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by paw3001 View Post
    Ha ha still waiting for you to keep your word. I suppose we will be waiting a long time.

    By the way, my original post always at 24:42, your reply went in at 23:47 and my more extensive edit went in at 23:48. I don’t suppose TZ tracks seconds but what do you think I was doing between 23:42 and 23:48?
    Classic TZ-UK.

  40. #90
    Grand Master Mr Curta's Avatar
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    Once somebody ill-advisedly brings politics into a G&D thread it's always going to head in a downward trajectory, and that happened way back with Post #13.
    Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH

  41. #91
    Grand Master Andyg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    As always, you are the final authority on truth. Please accept my sincere apologies, you were right and everybody else was wrong.
    Just for clarity were your “sincere apologies” genuine? If not then then surely just meaningless disingenuous waddle with the sole intention of trying to score Internet points (in an RIP thread). Not only disrespectful to the memory of David Amess, and who expressed their condolences, but also pretty despicable generally.

    Also why are you attempting to speak for “everyone”. Please don’t. You certainly don’t speak for me, and I imagine many others on this forum.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  42. #92
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    Monogroover, don’t assume that all Catholics are opposed to gay rights; that’s a sweeping generalisation.

  43. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    My point was that it was five minutes between your post and my reply. Hardly a ‘lightening’ reply as you stated.



    Yawn….
    So you only didn’t like my use of a superlative. My general point was correct.

    Thanks for clarifying.

  44. #94
    Master beechcustom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Which bit of my post were you struggling with? Where did I suggest he was some sort of saint. I simply said no one deserved to die in that manner.
    And I agreed. If he was pro-hunt and pro-animal cruelty I wouldn't be calling him a good guy.

  45. #95
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paw3001 View Post
    So you only didn’t like my use of a superlative. My general point was correct.

    Thanks for clarifying.
    That’s not what it says.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  46. #96



    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  47. #97
    Just heard the Speaker saying he hoped Southend would get city status as campaigned for by Sir David. Certainly undeserved.

  48. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Just heard the Speaker saying he hoped Southend would get city status as campaigned for by Sir David. Certainly undeserved.
    Why not start a different thread so this can be debated (by those interested) and keep it out of this one?

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  49. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Andyg View Post
    Why not start a different thread so this can be debated (by those interested) and keep it out of this one?
    I wanted to post here and because it's relevant to the MP's killing, thanks anyway.

  50. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogroover View Post
    On his attitude to gay rights: I share your disdain, but people inculcated into the Catholic faith from a young age are nearly always going to have that point of view, no matter how personally pleasant they may be. With respect to the other factors you mention, that's just a political perspective. I'm sure he would have argued, in my view not wrongly, that his approach to these matters were considerably more likely to benefit society, and indeed children, than yours.

    Yesterday even the Labour MP Jess Phillips referred to him as "lovely David" in a tweet. I don't think a Tory could get that from someone as sour and caustic as Jess without being genuinely a very nice man.
    Jess also gets on well with Jacob Rees-Mogg - I’d suggest you know damn-all about her but feel free to slag her off.

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