RIP David Amess MP

[hogthrob]

Just heard the Speaker saying he hoped Southend would get city status as campaigned for by Sir David. Certainly undeserved.

Why is it undeserved?

[Kingstepper]

Why is it undeserved?

I really don’t see anything deserving of city status apart from a large population if that is a criteria. To be blunt, it’s a dump. Can’t see that it has any redeeming features TBH...

It has little (nothing, maybe a priory?) of real architectural or historical merit.
It has a very run down high street and shopping centre.
It has a football team in the at the bottom of the fifth tier of English leagues.
It has a muddy beach.
It has a ridiculously named ‘London’ airport (though not alone there of course) with a declining handful of carriers serving a dozen or so minor destinations.

We are told that becoming a city will give it a boost, well I'd have thought that towns should deserve and earn the status, not be given as a leg up to needy towns.

A place is bigger than one person, even a murdered MP and shouldn't be given city status on the back of this incident (possibly at the expense of other towns).

[Saint-Just]

I thought that to be a city you just needed a cathedral...

[Kingstepper]

I thought that to be a city you just needed a cathedral...

Might help though hasn’t got one.

[Montello]

I thought that to be a city you just needed a cathedral...

It's a common myth that a city must have a cathedral in order to be a city. In fact, “city status” is conferred by the queen. It has nothing to do with whether a city has a cathedral or not.

[mart broad]

I really don’t see anything deserving of city status apart from a large population if that is a criteria. To be blunt, it’s a dump. Can’t see that it has any redeeming features TBH...

It has little (nothing, maybe a priory?) of real architectural or historical merit.
It has a very run down high street and shopping centre.
It has a football team in the at the bottom of the fifth tier of English leagues.
It has a muddy beach.
It has a ridiculously named ‘London’ airport (though not alone there of course) with a declining handful of carriers serving a dozen or so minor destinations.

We are told that becoming a city will give it a boost, well I'd have thought that towns should deserve and earn the status, not be given as a leg up to needy towns.

A place is bigger than one person, even a murdered MP and shouldn't be given city status on the back of this incident (possibly at the expense of other towns).

Cannot disagree but it does have the Kursel and Peter Pans and quite frankly giving it city status will make bugger all difference.

[hogthrob]

I really don’t see anything deserving of city status apart from a large population if that is a criteria. To be blunt, it’s a dump. Can’t see that it has any redeeming features TBH...

It has little (nothing, maybe a priory?) of real architectural or historical merit.
It has a very run down high street and shopping centre.
It has a football team in the at the bottom of the fifth tier of English leagues.
It has a muddy beach.
It has a ridiculously named ‘London’ airport (though not alone there of course) with a declining handful of carriers serving a dozen or so minor destinations.

We are told that becoming a city will give it a boost, well I'd have thought that towns should deserve and earn the status, not be given as a leg up to needy towns.

A place is bigger than one person, even a murdered MP and shouldn't be given city status on the back of this incident (possibly at the expense of other towns).

I was going to argue that you are being unfair, but then remembered that Dominic Littlewood is from Southend.

[Saint-Just]

It's a common myth that a city must have a cathedral in order to be a city. In fact, “city status” is conferred by the queen. It has nothing to do with whether a city has a cathedral or not.

I didn't know. Thank you.
Researching the subject a bit, not so much a myth...

The status does not apply automatically on the basis of any particular criteria, though in England and Wales it was traditionally given to towns with diocesan cathedrals. This association between having a cathedral and being called a city was established in the early 1540s when King Henry VIII founded dioceses (each having a cathedral in the see city) in six English towns and granted them city status by issuing letters patent.

...but an outdated notion that ended at the end of the 19th century

The link with Anglican dioceses was broken within England in 1889 when Birmingham successfully petitioned for city status (it was pre-empted in Ireland by Belfast in 1888) on the grounds of its large population and history of good local government. At the time of the grant, Birmingham lacked an Anglican cathedral, although the parish church later became a cathedral in 1905. This new precedent was followed by other large municipalities: Leeds and Sheffield became cities in 1893, and Bradford, Kingston upon Hull and Nottingham were honoured on the occasion of Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee in 1897. The last three had been the largest county boroughs outside the London area without city status.

But as KS was saying, a sh!thole town can only become a sh!thole city. A letter patent will not change this. If you want to boost people's pride in their community, there are more important things to do than to petition the Queen through the Home Office.

[bandylegss]

Southend now a City.

[Kingstepper]

Southend now a City.

Really? Thought they’d crow about it https://www.southend.gov.uk/homepage...david-amess-mp

[Saint-Just]

Really? Thought they’d crow about it https://www.southend.gov.uk/homepage...david-amess-mp

Indeed:

A community-led bid will be submitted in December as part of the Queen’s Platinum Jubilee celebrations. The results will be announced in 2022.

Yet it's true...

[Kingstepper]

Depressing.

[Saint-Just]

Depressing.

Fits the town/city.

[hogthrob]

There are nice parts of Southend as well; it isn't all down at heel.

[number2]

Depressing.

It really is,

[number2]

There are nice parts of Southend as well; it isn't all down at heel.

I'm sure you're right, but a city?

[monogroover]

It's not really a city, but then - neither are Derby or Sunderland.

Some beautiful tributes from all sides of the House this afternoon, not least from the Prime Minister and Leader of the Opposition.

[Macca]

Sad that a RIP thread descended into tatters again, when will the keyboard warriors be shown a red card


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[robert75]

Sad that a RIP thread descended into tatters again, when will the keyboard warriors be shown a red card


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Indeed, horrible what happened thoughts with his family.

[Andyg]

Depressing.

Wow, what is your problem? So Southend becomes a city and you find it “depressing”. What difference does it make to you? Do you live there, will it cost you money, will it devalue your home in some way?

I saw your comments about why you don’t think it should be a city, but you seemed to have forgotten other cities with similar “qualifications” exist, e.g example Bradford, Salford, Wolverhampton, Chelmsford, Preston to name a few.

Some people reading this, might think you only have a problem with it simply because it was a Tory MP who was campaigning for, and a Tory Government has decided to should happen.But the funny thing is, I am sure many more people have happy and good memories of a day out to Southend, then they do of a day out to Preston.

[mart broad]

Quite honestly one never went to Southend one went to Westcliffe as to this city business it will not impact on my life a jot but all seems a bit pointless

[Passenger]

Can Civic Pride, authentic status, really be conferred, bestowed from above with a title, in any meaningful sense...doubtful to my mind but we live in performative times.

[Andrzej]

Given some of the comments above, in the Guardian, an article by John Crace saying how he was perceived https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ir-david-amess

[Kingstepper]

Wow, what is your problem? So Southend becomes a city and you find it “depressing”. What difference does it make to you? Do you live there, will it cost you money, will it devalue your home in some way?

I saw your comments about why you don’t think it should be a city, but you seemed to have forgotten other cities with similar “qualifications” exist, e.g example Bradford, Salford, Wolverhampton, Chelmsford, Preston to name a few.

Some people reading this, might think you only have a problem with it simply because it was a Tory MP who was campaigning for, and a Tory Government has decided to should happen.But the funny thing is, I am sure many more people have happy and good memories of a day out to Southend, then they do of a day out to Preston.

I haven't forgotten those other cities, in fact I live in one of them and would argue against that being a city too but hardly relevant to this thread.

You reading this thread might think my antipathy towards Southend was due to the Tory MP but you'd be wrong as usual. Maybe Alton should become a city, believe many people have had a good day out there too.

Edit - Anyway, if you want to discuss politics discuss do it in the Bear Pit.

[Estoril-5]

Hardly a ‘correction of facts’. Simply your view on his politics.

Many saw him as very caring and empathetic apparently. So views differ.

“Members of Southend’s Muslim community paid tribute to Sir David, with Ruhul Shamsuddin, joint secretary of Essex Jamme Masjid, describing the MP as a “tremendous force for good and pillar of support for our community”.”

“Meanwhile, an Iranian opposition group has paid tribute to Sir David, describing him as a “human rights champion” and an “enemy of many dictators”.


https://uk.news.yahoo.com/muslims-.html

He did in recent times vote against extended free school meals for children in the school holidays. What people thought of him doesn't affect the population, what he votes for (or against) do affect people. I would argue in this case an MP's voting record is weightier than opinions or tributes.