Reply With QuoteWes, you've been a gent throughout and more reasonable and calm than I would have been.
Dan, you've been a complete knob. Amazing that someone is willing to throw their name down the toilet for £100. Poor show.
This is a great shame; I’d suggest appropriate H&V thread might be in order so that those not following this one might take whatever action they felt appropriate with that seller in the future. For balance, it would also give the seller a right of reply.
I would agree with seemingly everyone else on this thread, in saying I don’t believe that’s near mint.
I also have difficulty with the idea of returning a watch without being put back in funds, particularly where it seems like the relationship has become problematic. A great shame.
Wes, you've been a gent throughout and more reasonable and calm than I would have been.
Dan, you've been a complete knob. Amazing that someone is willing to throw their name down the toilet for £100. Poor show.
Pretty stark when couched like this…Originally Posted by RJM25R
Sorry to read about your experience Wes and a real shame that someone out there would think that he’s acting reasonably in how he’s responded to your request.
Hope you get everything sorted soon.
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Yep, it is.
Disgraceful behaviour from a complete chancer by the sound of things Wes. You deserve a full refund now, how anyone could describe that as mint / near mint is beyond me. He is trying to force you to compromise, you deserve a full refund now, nothing less. Good luck Wes, hopefully he will do the right thing.
That's not 'near mint' by anyone's standards. Missleading and dishonest listing. OP should get a full refund.
It's difficult now to find a solution as sales here are based on trust. That's gone now. I'm sure you don't want to send the watch back on the promise of a refund and I'm sure he doesn't want to refund you before he has the watch returned.
Spending the money before you know the buyer is happy is very risky and here has caught him out. Although once that mistake has been made how do you suddenly come up with the money??
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Why refinish a watch that’s being described as near Mint ?
Re losing his reputation for £100, not really, for me he lost it when he described it as near mint and took the buyer's money. He didn't actually offer to have it refinished did he?
Exactly.
The way I interpret events is that the seller had the opportunity to resolve the situation by refunding Wes £270. This would have covered his losses of re-listing the watch on SC for a reduced price reflecting its true condition.
Instead he chose to destroy his reputation over £100 and comments that TZ has no T&C's and a full refund by the end of the month is a better deal than Jura would offer their customers? And Wes would have to return the watch to him first before any refund was given. I definitely wouldn't take that risk.
Villain post has now been added:
https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.php?t=501379
Last edited by Wazza; 7th October 2021 at 22:53.
Not flagging negative issues via H&V makes SC a less safe place for us all.
First rule of sc club - Never ever EVER spend sales money until the buyer confirms that they've received and are happy.
Should I light the burner under the tar then??
Appears the seller has lit the match himself
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Wes, I'm very sorry.
My advice for what its worth.
1) Sell the watch, as I have a suggestion about dealing with the financial loss
2) I've seen the H&V, but I would put all his details in, that includes name, location, financial. Part of this is to create the link between action and consequence that this man-child is in sore need of, but also should he sneak back under another name, there is at least a possibility for a future buyer to recognise the name and pause the transaction
3) Your financial loss. TZ almosts needs members insurance. In the absence of that one option might be to set up a gofundme type of thing with the £270 target, and contributions to it so far. I think its likely members would contribute, I know I would, and it wouldn't take much to overturn the loss, and any surplus could go the Eddie's fundraiser.
Just some thoughts
Best
Dave
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Wes, Boss13 has just dropped an interesting screenshot in the SC listing.
Definitely not near mint!
Definitely not near mint. I wonder if it was bought that way as on discount, maybe a window piece. I rejected a watch from Ernest Jones ones from their website which was best described as well used.
Not that it makes any difference and the seller should know better in all respects.
Dan still a chance for you to do the right thing and pay the £270 he’s asking for. If you’ve offered £170, then £100 extra is a small price to pay in the grand scheme of things. You’ll also go to bed realising you unwound an issue and did the right thing. You’ve made a mistake, live and learn and move on fella. Easy to repair this.
Agreed. I just felt I was too eager to get the explorer and trusted the seller. I didn't ask for details on condition other than generalities. The seller is well known and I am sure yo his mind he was convinced the watch was in VG condition
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I actually thought it was the other Dan at first. Some user names are too alike
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The watch was misdescribed so it’s a refund in full as soon as the watch is returned or you get a villain post. Simple and non-negotiable.
As for a gofundme to cover the buyer’s loss... Really? He’s just spunked £2k+ on wrist jewellery. Gofundme is for paying the costs of a child’s life-saving operation, replacing a stolen wheelchair or repairing a flooded animal rescue centre, not for covering the losses of a luxury timepiece deal gone wrong. IMO of course. Some may feel differently.
Still a crap thing to happen and another name for the list.
I was suggesting that a community may look after one of their own.
There are many ways of dealing with a financial dimension, I chose one example.
D
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Sorry, it wasn’t a personal attack.
I just think setting up a fund to help recover losses for an unnecessary timepiece purchase is a bit OTT.
Agree that the community sticks together. And it will by ensuring dandandanman never does business on here again.
I think ‘a members’ insurance’ - is the last thing this forum needs.
Absolutely zero integrity shown by Dan.
That's a really poor move imo especially for 100 quid.
OP was decent enough to ask for a monetary difference. You should really be refunding in full and if you don't have the money, get it. It shouldn't have been spent so soon in the first place.
Although I highly doubt that it has actually been spent, or that you don't have access to the same amount from another source.
If you put the lack of contact to one side for a minute I do believe the offer of a full refund at the end of the month to be acceptable, the OP also has the option of a £170 refund and he keeps the watch. OP the ball is in your court and you have a few options. The seller can't issue a full refund if he doesn't have the funds (this is very silly and I never spend the funds till I know the buyer is happy).
Yes I fully understand why you would say this. And I have considered every possible outcome. My honest answer is that I don’t trust that the money will be there at the end of the month, that’s my issues, I know. Also I need to consider is he won’t release the funds until he received his watch back. Now my understanding is that he’s buying the watch back so funds need to be send before I ship the watch? He’s not a business or a grey dealer where they’d like to inspect before a refund, he’s a seller on TZ and should IMO have the trust in a buyer who’s got loads of history and great feedback back. Daniel wants it all his own way unfortunately.
This is my opinion and I stress this, if I send the watch back to him, will he only give me my money back once he’s sold it on? With his reputation on here it won’t sell on here. I’d be waiting a long time to get the funds back. I will be out of pocket by this point as I’d also have no watch. His communication has been nothing short off non existent since the sale began so why would this stop? I have lost all confidence in this fella.
He has also offered me £170 and for me to have a watch I didn’t want because I was after a nice example and this clearly wasn’t. I don’t see this watch in it’s current condition worth £2100. I recently sold a brand new BB58 to a TZer a matter of months ago for £2250 it’s was mint, out the box. Daniels watch he sold me is not worth only £150 less than the one I sold IMO.
The ball is in my court yes, but I have more to lose if he goes quiet again.
May I ask you a question, reading everything, what would you do?
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Sorry Guv I've already spent the exact amount from the watch sale on the house and I have zero savings, oh yes and the dog ate my homework
I would accept the refund but would expect that to be prior to returning the watch and think that's a reasonable request for you to make. I wasn't having a dig at you and you've been more than reasonable but he simply can't refund you if he doesn't have the funds.
If it was me wes
I would take the £175 and relist the watch at £2000
It would help to lessen the loss
Although would he still honour that deal remains to be seen
Sending the watch back i would not consider an option at all
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That’s precisely why he is one I would not want to deal with. Your first post hit the nail on the head, he should never have spent the money before checking the watch is ok with the buyer.
Catch 22 for Wes but it’s not his issue that the buyer is having problems, he was quick enough to take the funds and his comments around T&Cs on SC / Jura etc pathetic.
Sorry to disagree, but I for one don’t find that acceptable at all. Assuming for a minute he has genuinely spent the money he received already, that to me indicates one of a couple of possible things:
a. he was fully aware he’d misdescribed it.
b. he’s in dire straits financially.
Neither of those situations would leave me with any confidence at all that come the 1st November I’d be receiving the full amount if I were the OP.
I agree with this. In the current condition, it’s probably still just about worth £2100. Is that mark on the lug really that bad? It isn’t near mint, but it is not bad either.
I completely agree with what has been said about the misdescription, lack of contact and general poor handling. I would have been equally livid. But, when the dust settles, it’s not the end of the world. £270 is quite a heavy discount to £2000.
I’d chalk it down to experience, take the £170, and not deal with the chap again.
Last edited by Berty234; 8th October 2021 at 09:59.
I'd do the same but I'd still be writing a Villain post.
Fact is Wes is too nice to do that and didn't want to write a Villain post.
You could send the watch off to be re-finished, but ask them to send the invoice to Dan's address (with his consent). By the time the work on the watch is complete, it'll probably be the end of the month so he has no excuse.
To be honest, the idea that somebody who has enough liquidity to buy / sell watches worth multiples of thousands can't muster up £270 is (without trying to sound snobbish) hard to believe.
Last edited by mutanthands; 8th October 2021 at 10:27.
I'd caution this -- if he works in EJ as suspected, he could be buying watches on credit cards to avail of discounts and pocketing the difference when selling on
Never assume someone with expensive trinkets can actually afford them
Exactly - there are plenty of wideboys on here wheeling and dealing. Some are just thicker / greedier than others and end up getting caught.
I think I’d just take the partial refund, get the watch sorted and sell it on. I definitely wouldn’t send it back to him against the vague promise of a refund at the end of the month.
Agree. Bearing in mind its a June 2021 watch and those marks are superficial, I'd say this watch is worth £2100.
£2000 seems undervalued and to me would be the "I need to offload this watch immediately" value.
I would be taking the £170 and walking away rather than accepting the situation out of principal.
Edited to add...thats not to say I don't believe you should have had a full refund straight away. The £170 seems the least worst option.
Last edited by Christian; 8th October 2021 at 11:02.
I would agree that you have taken the correct action in not sending the watch back until you are refunded first. the trust is simply gone from the transaction.
For what it's worth OP, I'd probably opt to see if the month end scenario played out and give the seller the short time he's requested to do the right thing, subject to him confirming he'll cover the cost of RMSD return. That's the best outcome for you so why not give it 3 weeks. Your concerns are well founded but I don't think the seller's misdescription is certain proof that his word isn't credible and it's a short time to wait for him to do the right thing (although I totally agree he ought not to need it but we don't know how circumstances).
If the seller failed to live up to his suggestion then you can move forward knowing you gave him the time he requested and that failing to facilitate a return, when clearly not as described, is certain 'villain' behaviour.
Can't give a guy who ignores multiple messages once he has your money more time.
Easy way to lose the watch and not get a penny refunded.
Hi Dave.
Again I take on board your comments however he won’t release funds until I send him the watch. I really can’t allow myself after how he’s conducted himself so far to send him a watch without payment.
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It’s not that simple, the seller wants the watch back before money is refunded to the OP. That takes a level of trust, which has been damaged by the communication that’s happened so far.
I think you have been 100% entirely fair, reasonable and sensibly cautious given the timeline. His comments, and the point in the above quote, simply means that you have minimised the impact as much as you can of not dealing with a gentleman.
He's toast here.
Anyway it's a lovely watch and if you don't want to get it tidied up, someone will.
All the best and enjoy your weekend.
Wes, I'd hoped the seller might have reflected on the condition of return prior to refund, hence my comments being directed more at how you might get the best outcome for you. If he maintains his insistence then I'd 100% agree with your view. At least writing a villain post is easy as it needs nothing more than a link to this thread!
THIS is it, works in retail, earns £20k, gets a 40% discount on a watch every 3 months, spends the cash on the credit card, makes a profit, pays off the CC.
This is the reason why he can't offer a full refund days after the transaction, as he has paid off the CC with the funds from the buyer!
Great detective work Demon!
At this stage I would take the £170
Frustrating
D
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Doubt that's still there...
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