eBay's own Authenticity Guarantee for watches

[ralphy]

Apologies if this has been discussed before, but eBay now have an authenticity guarantee for buyers of watches over £2000 - which I was unaware of.

In brief, this is how it appears to work:

You list a watch.

Once a buyer purchases it, you send the watch to a team of independent authenticators to be verified.

The watch goes through a multi-point inspection and if it passes it then it gets sent to the buyer via fast, signature-required delivery.

Full T&C's here:

https://pages.ebay.co.uk/authenticit...atches-seller/

Seems a good idea to me.

R

[Onelasttime]

I think it was discussed somewhere before, but who are the independent authenticators?

It also sounds too good to be true considering there's no charge. Ebay must have some kind of angle on it?

[PreacherCain]

Yes, I’ve seen this on there recently. I assume that once it’s embedded there will be a differential fee structure for watches, in order to cover the cost…

It ought to shut down the people who try and pass off fake Rolices etc as real, even if the so-called super fakes still get through, so probably a good thing, on balance. I don’t play in the £2K-plus market myself.

[midgetda]

The authenticator is Stoll & Co as I recently made a purchase which went through this process.

[xellos99]

I think it was discussed somewhere before, but who are the independent authenticators?

It also sounds too good to be true considering there's no charge. Ebay must have some kind of angle on it?

To boost buyer confidence in purchasing high price watches on their site that they take a cut of.

Most people with common sense probably looked elsewhere for £2K + watches IMO.

[JGJG]

The authenticator is Stoll & Co as I recently made a purchase which went through this process.

Is that only for the US?

[JGJG]

I’d be concerned that there are watches out there where the verifier does know anything about them, and then as a buyer you’re scuppered if you get a wrong un….

[midgetda]

Is that only for the US?

No as the authentication paperwork is from Stoll so they are also covering the UK at least

[JGJG]

No as the authentication paperwork is from Stoll so they are also covering the UK at least

Ah. Thought they were US only, but I see they came here in June 2021.

https://usa.watchpro.com/stoll-co-st...to-the-uk/?amp

[JGJG]

If one buys a used watch that is currently under warranty (say for sake of argument a Speedie Pro that the seller just had serviced by Omega), then I can’t see how a third party authentication process could fail to void the balance of warranty that would have been priced into the eBay sale.

Thoughts?

[midgetda]

When buying a pre owned watch you can never know what's been done to it during the prior ownership. The previous owner may have opened the case back just to have a look at the movement. How would you know there may be an issue making a warranty claim until its submitted? Using Omega as the example you cited, I have never had an issue with Omega honouring the warranty on a pre owned one. And I've sent a couple to them that have clearly been well used so they could have tried to reject them on that basis. Other brands may be different of course and I do understand the point you are making. Ultimately if you want surety then buy new.

[HookedSeven]

The other big advantage of this is that a seller can’t send you an empty box, or something different to the item that appears in their listing. I bought a $4k vintage Omega a couple of weeks ago and this removes all the worry and stress of getting ripped-off.

[Chris_in_the_UK]

I guess it's value to the process is dependant on the 'experts' but it may discourage some of the scammers.

[Ruggertech]

The other big advantage of this is that a seller can’t send you an empty box, or something different to the item that appears in their listing. I bought a $4k vintage Omega a couple of weeks ago and this removes all the worry and stress of getting ripped-off.

Very true, and on the same note a buyer can't make a spurious claim that the seller sent them an empty box or something different than in the listing either. From anecdotal evidence this occurs fairly regularly.

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[midgetda]

Yep I think this is a very good move overall for both buyer and seller.

[K-Z1R]

Bought a watch via e-bay last week. I had no concerns about the seller and the watch went though this system. Process perhaps delayed delivery by one day, but very slick and delivery by UPS. No issues with it at all.

[JGJG]

When buying a pre owned watch you can never know what's been done to it during the prior ownership. The previous owner may have opened the case back just to have a look at the movement. How would you know there may be an issue making a warranty claim until its submitted? Using Omega as the example you cited, I have never had an issue with Omega honouring the warranty on a pre owned one. And I've sent a couple to them that have clearly been well used so they could have tried to reject them on that basis. Other brands may be different of course and I do understand the point you are making. Ultimately if you want surety then buy new.

No one is going to reject a service warranty claim on the basis a watch has been “well used”. Or in the absence of proof that the case has been opened. But they might on the basis that it has been verifiably opened by a third party, might they not? Only speculation on my part; in any case, I’m glad your purchase went well and that you found the process helpful.

[JGJG]

I guess it's value to the process is dependant on the 'experts' but it may discourage some of the scammers.

That sums it up pretty well for me.

[ralphy]

To boost buyer confidence in purchasing high price watches on their site that they take a cut of.

Most people with common sense probably looked elsewhere for £2K + watches IMO.

There are thousands of people who buy £2k+ watches via eBay, what makes you think most of them lack common sense?



R

[Boxsash]

I guess it would useful for the first time buyer. I always go by the saying 'choose the seller' folks with hundreds of loads of 100% positive feedback are less likely to pull a fast one. PP are another insurance against this too. There must be hundreds of watches sold every day. the experts will be busy.

[ralphy]

I guess it would useful for the first time buyer. I always go by the saying 'choose the seller' folks with hundreds of loads of 100% positive feedback are less likely to pull a fast one. PP are another insurance against this too. There must be hundreds of watches sold every day. the experts will be busy.

There's about 20,000 £2k+ watches currently for sale on eBay.

R

[K-Z1R]

The other positive with the e-bay purchase was that it was cheaper, newer and with detailed description of it's timekeeping. I saw the same watch type on here for sale, but the seller couldn't / wouldn't also give that information.

[clemenry]

I'm a little sceptical on whether this could actually work, I guess it all depends on their independent authenticators and whether they have the breadth of knowledge across a wide range of watches (especially being able to identify the nuisances with vintage pieces or whether the parts are actually original or aftermarket / fake).

Let's play devils advocate, what happens if once you receive the watch that has been through eBays independent authenticators and is deemed to be genuine you are not happy and have reservations about either the watch itself or part of the watch are you (the buyer) no longer covered or allowed to return as it has been verified??

[HookedSeven]

I'm a little sceptical on whether this could actually work, I guess it all depends on their independent authenticators and whether they have the breadth of knowledge across a wide range of watches (especially being able to identify the nuisances with vintage pieces or whether the parts are actually original or aftermarket / fake).

Let's play devils advocate, what happens if once you receive the watch that has been through eBays independent authenticators and is deemed to be genuine you are not happy and have reservations about either the watch itself or part of the watch are you (the buyer) no longer covered or allowed to return as it has been verified??

As far as vintage goes I personally wouldn’t trust, or even expect, an external authenticator to judge if every single part in original. I view that as my responsibility from the photographs in the listing. For me, the authenticator is there to confirm that the seller sent the listed item, and that there isn’t anything grossly incorrect that wasn’t described or photographed in the listing (for example a modern replacement movement when the listing had no movement shots).

[midgetda]

The watch arrives with a security seal around the strap which says returns not accepted if removed. Which would indicate to me there is a right of return even after authentication. I purchased from a bricks and mortar shop with the added security of it going via authentication in my case. I was already comfortable making the purchase without that layer, but I figured why not also have that extra level as it was included. You get authentication documentation from Stoll & Co on the watch as well then which helps any future sell on in my view.

As others have said, you need to be comfortable with any purchase being made in the first place. Some people don't like buying from eBay full stop and others are OK with it. Just one of those things. I personally wouldn't make a purchase I wasn't comfortable with even with it going via authentication. Everyone will have a different threshold of course.

On the vintage question, the standard authenticator paperwork does say they cannot guarantee all parts are original for a vintage watch.

[clemenry]

As far as vintage goes I personally wouldn’t trust, or even expect, an external authenticator to judge if every single part in original. I view that as my responsibility from the photographs in the listing. For me, the authenticator is there to confirm that the seller sent the listed item, and that there isn’t anything grossly incorrect that wasn’t described or photographed in the listing (for example a modern replacement movement when the listing had no movement shots).

Which is fine if eBay still honour the buyers rights to return after it being through the independent authenticators and deemed genuine. I'm sure it's all covered in the small print and T&Cs which I haven't read

[clemenry]

The watch arrives with a security seal around the strap which says returns not accepted if removed. Which would indicate to me there is a right of return even after authentication.

[hughtrimble]

I'm interested...only if Haywood/his team are the ones doing the Rolex checks!

[Ruggertech]

Let's play devils advocate, what happens if once you receive the watch that has been through eBays independent authenticators and is deemed to be genuine you are not happy and have reservations about either the watch itself or part of the watch are you (the buyer) no longer covered or allowed to return as it has been verified??

If the seller has a business account rather than private then distance selling regulations apply and you can return it for a refund with no given reason necessary.

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[adrianw]

What if you are the seller and the verifiers say your watch is not genuine, but you are sure it is. what do they do with any fake watches they discover?

[Neil.C]

What if you are the seller and the verifiers say your watch is not genuine, but you are sure it is. what do they do with any fake watches they discover?

[ralphy]

Which is fine if eBay still honour the buyers rights to return after it being through the independent authenticators and deemed genuine. I'm sure it's all covered in the small print and T&Cs which I haven't read

It is.

R

[paneristi372]

I was surprised by this. I sold a pair of trainers and was unaware of this posted them out and got message 2 days later saying they were authentic and that they would now be forwarded on to the buyer! Was very surprised.

[mart broad]

Goes HA4 0BH in Ruislip just sold on EBay and my buyer did not want to use this so posted as per usual to the buyer the watch in question is listed with the manufacturers warranty programme.
My thoughts are what if the watch gets damaged by the assessor's always a possibility?they must be assessing a multitude of watches per day and this will only rise

[Ruggertech]

Goes HA4 0BH in Ruislip just sold on EBay and my buyer did not want to use this so posted as per usual to the buyer the watch in question is listed with the manufacturers warranty programme.
My thoughts are what if the watch gets damaged by the assessor's always a possibility?they must be assessing a multitude of watches per day and this will only rise

Playing devil's advocate here, but now the buyer could potentially claim you sent him an empty box or a fake watch.
Using the authentication programme would prevent this and any subsequent claims regarding authenticity or non delivery would be ebays problem.

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[mart broad]

Playing devil's advocate here, but now the buyer could potentially claim you sent him an empty box or a fake watch.
Using the authentication programme would prevent this and any subsequent claims regarding authenticity or non delivery would be ebays problem.

Sent from my SM-A125F using Tapatalk

Agree there are always pros and cons

[J3w3ll3r]

Playing devil's advocate here, but now the buyer could potentially claim you sent him an empty box or a fake watch.
Using the authentication programme would prevent this and any subsequent claims regarding authenticity or non delivery would be ebays problem.

Sent from my SM-A125F using Tapatalk

How often do you think this happens?


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[Ruggertech]

How often do you think this happens?


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It hasn't happened to me touch wood (I don't suppose I ever sell anything valuable enough for the scammers to trouble themselves with). But I have read about it happening on various forums and chat rooms. So anecdotal to be sure, but they are not all making it up. Afraid I can't give you a figure.

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[Ruggertech]

Agree there are always pros and cons

Indeed, nowts perfect.

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[ralphy]

T&C's, Mart.

Goes HA4 0BH in Ruislip just sold on EBay and my buyer did not want to use this so posted as per usual to the buyer the watch in question is listed with the manufacturers warranty programme.

Circumvention of Buyer and Seller Requirements.
If buyer or seller circumvent or do not comply with Sections 7.a or 7.b of these Terms, or if buyer or seller violate or are found to be non-compliant with the Terms, eBay reserves the right to take immediate action such as, but not limited to, account restriction or suspension.

My thoughts are what if the watch gets damaged by the assessor's always a possibility?they must be assessing a multitude of watches per day and this will only rise.

What will happen if my item is damaged or lost while in the possession of the third-party authenticator?
In the unlikely event your item is lost or damaged while in the possession of the independent authenticator, eBay will cover such loss or damage of the item. Should the item be lost or damaged before reaching the authentication partner the seller is responsible.

R

[timestuff]

Used their their service to purchase, it does slow down the delivery as it needs to go to the authenticator first.
For the buyer it does offer that bit extra guarantee and you get a plastic card to say it's been authenticated which you can also view on your phone via NFT.
It says the authentication process is free for now which makes me think they will start charging sellers (or even buyers?) for the additional service if it gets good feedback?

[ralphy]

Even if there were a charge I think it would prove to be a popular facility, given the peace of mind it provides.

R

[ralphy]

Update.

I'm now going through the Authenticity Process of a watch I've just sold on eBay and am about to send of the item to the authenticators, Rapid SS.

One slight snag has occured within eBay's 'print and pay' postage lable facility, if selecting RMSD as the carrier the only cover available is up to £500 compensation...

So l'll go and get the £2500 cover at the post office.

R

[Stilgoe1972]

I recently purchased some trainers that needed Authentication from eBay as they were pretty expensive . It went relatively smoothly and comes with a tag etc from eBay to say that it’s been checked etc. It does lessen the risk when buying easily copied items. I think it’s a good idea.


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[Haywood_Milton]

Update.

I'm now going through the Authenticity Process of a watch I've just sold on eBay and am about to send of the item to the authenticators, Rapid SS.

One slight snag has occured within eBay's 'print and pay' postage lable facility, if selecting RMSD as the carrier the only cover available is up to £500 compensation...

So l'll go and get the £2500 cover at the post office.

R

That may just be a communication problem. Jewellers often have policies (as I do) which allow outgoing and incoming sendings by RMSD to be sent at the lowest level of RM cover, with our insurers covering the difference between that and any accepted, higher value. This arose as a pragmatic way to control postage costs when the jewellery trade's underwriters had consistently recorded negligible losses arising from the statutory RMSD 1pm service.

[ralphy]

That may just be a communication problem. Jewellers often have policies (as I do) which allow outgoing and incoming sendings by RMSD to be sent at the lowest level of RM cover, with our insurers covering the difference between that and any accepted, higher value. This arose as a pragmatic way to control postage costs when the jewellery trade's underwriters had consistently recorded negligible losses arising from the statutory RMSD 1pm service.

That makes sense. However, I'd wager the majority of private sellers would see it as an oddity given the £500 limit on a £2000+ transaction. On this purchase I didn't use Infosure as the sale price was below RMSD's £2500 limit.

It'll be interesting to hear my buyers feedback on how long it is before the watch arrives with him and also what he thinks of the packaging it comes in, mine to them was certainly substantial.

R

[K-Z1R]

That makes sense. However, I'd wager the majority of private sellers would see it as an oddity given the £500 limit on a £2000+ transaction. On this purchase I didn't use Infosure as the sale price was below RMSD's £2500 limit.

It'll be interesting to hear my buyers feedback on how long it is before the watch arrives with him and also what he thinks of the packaging it comes in, mine to them was certainly substantial.

R

My watch arrived in a box that the Tudor watch box fitted into perfectly. I couldn't fault it in any way. In view of seeing a couple of problematic purchases via this forum since I have joined it, I am happy that both of my recent purchases have been made via E-bay with the protection it gives. The seller of my first watch accepted it back and fully refunded me after it was still running erratically after being back to Tudor for warranty work. This was nine months after purchase and the watch having been with Tudor for four months.
The seller of the replacement Tudor provided a very detailed report on the watch including its timekeeping and it has proved to be spot on and cost less than similar Tudors being sold on here.

[ralphy]

Posted out yesterday, delivery confirmed today and now received this.



R

[huytonman]

I accepted an offer on Friday for £2k, posted on Friday, had confirmation that it was received by the Ebay watch guys this morning and now confirmation that its "authentic"..whew! and is to be posted to the buyer Tuesday so in reality its a 24-48 hour delay but early days and it could slow down but for now, nothing to complain about.
Keith

[ataripower]

What I suspect will happen is that once this trial has concluded which is currently 'free' to buyers and sellers, Ebay will begin excluding watches form their regular discounted selling promotions meaning you'll be charged the full 12.8% selling fee on every watch sale.

Technically the authentication service will still be free so to speak but sellers will be paying hundreds on selling fees instead.