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Thread: I am interested - what do you think of GPs in this country? (long read)

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  1. #1
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    I am interested - what do you think of GPs in this country? (long read)

    Full disclosure - I am a GP trainee.

    Now, this may or may not be a good forum to gauge a bit of actual opinion but I am curious nonetheless. There has been a huge amount of vilification of GPs in the right wing media of late - mostly Daily Mail and Telegraph - the government has been very happy to sit back and let this happen. Now, I haven't actually felt this hate from my patients (apart from the odd person but that has always been the case) by and large my patients seem very happy. So, what are people's actual opinions?

    So, there is a national shortage of GPs at the moment and there has been for some time - the current government promised to increase GP numbers by 20,000 (I think) since that policy started numbers have actually fallen. The demand for appointments has skyrocketed during this time of dwindling numbers. The current media response to this is that GPs are lazy, should be paid less and should work more. I find this astounding. How is it that when there is a lorry driver shortage people can clearly see that the blame doesn't lie with the drivers but with the circumstances and government; however when there is a crisis in GP, the government and chronic underfunding of the health and social care system is not to blame but it is the GPs themselves?

    There is this argument that "well if all the GPs just worked full-time then there would be no shortage", or even "well if we paid the GPs less they would have to work full-time, we pay them too much". It is true a lot of GPs don't work "full-time" except that they do... and then some. It used to be that 9 sessions (each half day of clinical work is 1 session) was full time - so 4.5 days seeing patients and half a day of admin. Lovely. Except that if you did that with the current demands on GP you would work in excess of 80-100 hours a week and only be paid for 40. Now, actually, we can work that much because we have all done it in the past but the actual content of the work is so intense and stressful that honestly I do not think it is physically possible to do it without making yourself very ill very quickly. Perhaps some may think that is a pathetic sob story - fine, but you're wrong - doctors as a whole are pretty resilient people and the levels of burnout, depression and suicide speak for themselves. I reckon nowadays 7 sessions equals about a max for most people and it would still equate to 50+ hours a week.

    There are some that genuinely work part-time i.e. 2-4 sessions a week. For most people that do this, it is because of child care or other commitments (maybe they also have a role in a CCG or at a medical school) - the point is that if you made these people work full-time - they would just leave general practice all together - you'd have less GPs.

    What about paying the GPs less? As a salaried GP you could expect to earn 8-10k per session per year. So if you worked that 7 session 50+ hour a week you'd be on £70k/year at the top end. A good wage for sure. A very low wage when comparing to other developed countries. I just cannot see how that much money is too much for the amount of training (5-6 years med school, 2 years foundation training, 3 years GP training) and the amount of risk and responsibility a GP takes. Partners can earn more - the average partner would take home about 100k/year but they would work way more hours and have to worry about the business side of the practice. Some very lucky partners might earn 150+ but they really are outliers.

    Honestly - if GP is so well paid and so easy why on earth is there a recruitment crisis... it is because the job is extremely difficult and getting harder and many of my medical school friends "couldn't be paid enough" to do this job.

    "But my GP refuses to see me!" - I guess this is where I can only speak from person experience. But some background - there has been a long term push for GPs to offer more virtual contact and this was heightened with covid. We were told to be prioritising remote consults. Now I think the situation mostly works in that if need an appt you will get a phone call first and then the doctor will decide if need a f2f. In my practice that is mostly because pre-covid the waiting was packed and I mean packed at all times - we just can't have a coughing 30 year old sat next to an immunosuppressed 70 year old with breast cancer - there needs to be triage. To be clear - I hate remote consultations - sometimes I feel like I am working in a call centre and it is not what I became a doctor to do, but it is something that, at the moment, we can't get around. Even with all this - if a patient is sick and needs to see me in person - they see me or another doctor in person, the same day, without fail.

    Let me be clear, I do not need anyone to feel sorry for me an my colleagues. We choose to do the work we do. But I do resent the finger being pointed at us when it should be pointed at the government that is underfunding the whole interconnected health and social care system. The anti-GP rhetoric, I believe, is beautifully convenient for the government - when the NHS reaches breaking point (and make no mistake, it will, if nothing changes) what a lovely scapegoat to have - those lazy GPs off playing golf on a Wednesday afternoon.

    So, I don't want anyone's sympathy (or applause for that matter), but I do hope people actually question where the real problems lie and don't just swallow what the media ask them to swallow.
    Last edited by watchstudent; 30th September 2021 at 10:27.

  2. #2
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    I virtually never go to the GP, I enjoy good health. When I have been the service has been pretty good although I have been kicked out of the room when I have tried to raise a second issue I have been told to make a second appointment. The receptionists are obstructive and excessively nosey, I swear they think they are actually doctors.

    My mate who is a partner in a GP practice makes a lot of money and always seems to be in the pub … so I don’t know how that works but he’s earning considerably more than you suggest above and he’s not doing many hours.

  3. #3
    Grand Master jwg663's Avatar
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    Yet another thread started in the wrong place.
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  4. #4
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    I know nothing about it but imo:

    99.9 % (probably more) of doctors are wonderful.
    I would assume - as in many professions - there is a huge range of salaries, working hours etc. depending on age and experience. Towards the start of my career in engineering (I am a Chartered Engineer with the IMechE) when I went offshore I would work 72 hours plus a week for a pittance, in my latter years of going offshore it was nearer four figures a day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by markbannister View Post
    I know nothing about it but imo:

    99.9 % (probably more) of doctors are wonderful.
    For an engineer, that’s an odd thing to say because (a) it’s not true and (b) you have no evidence to back it up. Unless you were being sarcastic.

    I assume the usual normal distribution would apply so 60% in the middle are adequate, 20% poor and 20% good.

    Are 99.9% of engineers wonderful? No, of course not. Are 99.9% of politicians wonderful? No. Etc., etc..

    In all my years working, I doubt I have come across more than 5% of people - professionals and otherwise - who were wonderful. I try hard but don’t think I ever achieved those heights.
    Last edited by David_D; 30th September 2021 at 11:34.

  6. #6
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    Touch wood, I am lucky enough not to have needed much medical attention over the past couple of years (I'm sure I'm therefore about to be struck down!). I have found my local GP practice virtually impossible to schedule an appointment for ages, though - I had some fairly interesting mental health issues a few years ago and despite a pretty urgent need for support, couldn't access anything via the local surgery. I should make clear that I don't blame the doctors in any way, but rather the system itself and the presumably enormous patient numbers in the catchment area.

    I am also fortunate in now being able to access private GP consultations (virtual and in-person if needed) via my work medical insurance, and my interactions with GPs via that channel have without exception been excellent, hence my view that the issue lies not with the clinicians (though they are, as noted, a convenient Aunt Sally for HMG) but with the system in which they have to operate.

    As an example, I would be interested to know what proportion of GPs' time is taken up with essentially administrative stuff like referrals to consultants; I understand that this gatekeeper role was pretty much written into the NHS from inception to keep the GPs onside at the time, and I'm not sure it's necessary these days. I may of course be wrong on that, but I'm sure there are some structural issues which could be fixed if only there were the will and the resources to do so.

  7. #7
    Grand Master GraniteQuarry's Avatar
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    Barely used the NHS for a couple decades, having had a child and also getting older has seen more recent usage of our surgery.

    Cannot really fault the GPs themselves, majority always helpful and caring but the background organisation seems quite lacking. I realise NHS underfunding bla bla but it always strikes me that proper management is the key failure point of the NHS. The model needs significant polishing, then it would be the fabulous system that many claim it to be.

    Good luck in your career

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    I think GPs generally get into it because they want to do something good. In fact, that probably goes for nurses, police officers, anyone whose role is one of public service. From that point of view, I have nothing but respect for GPs.

    Humans become jaded though. Police officers become brutalised by dealing with scum all day, nurses become disillusioned having completed their degree to spend time wiping up blood and s**t, ambulance crews can't get to genuinely ill people because they're picking some drunk up who has passed out in the street again and GPs are constantly seeing drug-seeking behaviour and malingerers, the Google generation "knowing" everything, constantly pushed for time, frustrated by missed appointments, budgetary constraints etc etc etc. If people have a negative perception of GPs it's because they have little insight into the pressures of the job, or probably any job for that matter.

    I have seen one GP in my life I didn't like, I have seen two others who I will never forget for saving my life.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by watchstudent View Post
    Full disclosure - I am a GP trainee.

    Now, this may or may not be a good forum to gauge a bit of actual opinion but I am curious nonetheless. There has been a huge amount of vilification of GPs in the right wing media of late - mostly Daily Mail and Telegraph - the government has been very happy to sit back and let this happen.
    What would you like the government to do - install a political officer at every newspaper office, to check and approve the content of their editorials?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogroover View Post
    What would you like the government to do - install a political officer at every newspaper office, to check and approve the content of their editorials?
    I would like the government to fund the health and social care system properly.

  11. #11
    Administrator swanbourne's Avatar
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    When I first registered with my GP in 1976, there was a single doctor running 3 consultation sessions a day, 2 on Saturdays and home visits were common. You didn't need an appointment, you just turned up at the surgery, took a lollipop stick with a number on it and waited your turn. Fast forward to 2021 and the last time I tried to make an appointment I was told it would be 7 weeks. The practice now has 6 doctors, 4 nurses and 3 receptionists.

    What happened?

    Eddie
    Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    When I first registered with my GP in 1976, there was a single doctor running 3 consultation sessions a day, 2 on Saturdays and home visits were common. You didn't need an appointment, you just turned up at the surgery, took a lollipop stick with a number on it and waited your turn. Fast forward to 2021 and the last time I tried to make an appointment I was told it would be 7 weeks. The practice now has 6 doctors, 4 nurses and 3 receptionists.

    What happened?

    Eddie
    A less healthy and older population, reduced funding (in real terms), more demanding patients, A and E departments broken, longer waiting lists for operations, social care systems failing, lots more mental health, more issues being directed by “go to your GP”, more admin and on and on


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  13. #13
    currently my GP practice is offering no face to face consultations and getting through on the phone has taken me a few weeks at an hr on the phone at a time and we have receptionists with no medical training acting as gatekeepers if you even manage to get through ,at this point personally i want to know why i can goto a supermarket or stadium but my GP remains closed -the system is broken and needs a major overhaul.

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    I thought this thread was going to be about Girard Perregaux...
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

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    Master j0hnbarker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    When I first registered with my GP in 1976, there was a single doctor running 3 consultation sessions a day, 2 on Saturdays and home visits were common. You didn't need an appointment, you just turned up at the surgery, took a lollipop stick with a number on it and waited your turn. Fast forward to 2021 and the last time I tried to make an appointment I was told it would be 7 weeks. The practice now has 6 doctors, 4 nurses and 3 receptionists.

    What happened?

    Eddie
    Bluntly, people realised that working 70-80 hours per week, with little time for family life in between, was a quick way to burnout and death.

    Also, the medical knowledge and complexity of systems was so basic back in the 70s compared with now. You might have had a heart attack and been prescribed bed rest by that GP. Nowadays, you'll be on 4 different medications with routine follow-ups and blood investigations that the GP will be expected to manage. One person simply could not do that now. And that's one example of one specific illness. You could times that by 1,000 today and still not get close.
    Last edited by j0hnbarker; 30th September 2021 at 12:04.

  16. #16
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    I hear my doctor has won the area Hide and Seek competition and will be going through to the finals.

    I think people who decided to train as a GP, and then want to avoid contact with people who are ill, chose the wrong profession.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

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    Quote Originally Posted by j0hnbarker View Post
    Bluntly, people realised that working 70-80 hours per week, with little time for family life in between, was a quick way to burnout and death.

    Also, the medical knowledge and complexity of systems was so basic back in the 70s compared with now. You might have had a heart attack and been prescribed bed rest by that GP. Nowadays, you'll be on 4 different medications with routine follow-ups and blood investigations that the GP will be expected to manage. One person simply could not do that now. And that's one example of one specific illness. You could times that by 1,000 today and still not get close.
    This sums up the position really; medicine and health care has become so complex that the NHS system can't cope ... the NHS is very broken but it continues to muddle along in an incredibly inefficient fashion. They seem great at critical health emergencies but managing my father-in-laws Parkinsons over the last 16 years has been nothing short of tragic / comedic depending on how you look at it ...

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    When I first registered with my GP in 1976, there was a single doctor running 3 consultation sessions a day, 2 on Saturdays and home visits were common. You didn't need an appointment, you just turned up at the surgery, took a lollipop stick with a number on it and waited your turn. Fast forward to 2021 and the last time I tried to make an appointment I was told it would be 7 weeks. The practice now has 6 doctors, 4 nurses and 3 receptionists.

    What happened?

    Eddie
    Pretty much the same for me. Single doctor and one (friendly!) receptionist. Doctor worked 5 days mornings and evenings, including saturdays, did home visits, and went to a London teaching hospital every Friday ( I believe he was a Brain Specialist).

    Now there appears to be at least 6 doctors and maybe 4-6 receptionists/secretaries, and its nearly impossible to get an appointment (on the phone...)

    Also it seems that Doctors use the internet too, generally giving printouts of what they find that they think would be useful. Something which the majority of patients could do themselves.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmonaco View Post
    Pretty much the same for me. Single doctor and one (friendly!) receptionist. Doctor worked 5 days mornings and evenings, including saturdays, did home visits, and went to a London teaching hospital every Friday ( I believe he was a Brain Specialist).

    Now there appears to be at least 6 doctors and maybe 4-6 receptionists/secretaries, and its nearly impossible to get an appointment (on the phone...)

    Also it seems that Doctors use the internet too, generally giving printouts of what they find that they think would be useful. Something which the majority of patients could do themselves.
    Of course we use the internet! Just like before the internet doctors would look in books… I still do that occasionally. Do you think it is humanly possible to learn everything about the human body and disease?
    We give printouts of reliable information. And yes patients could do that themselves. The difference is I know how to interpret information available on the internet. The internet is great, if you know how to use it.


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    I am interested - what do you think of GPs in this country? (long read)

    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    When I first registered with my GP in 1976, there was a single doctor running 3 consultation sessions a day, 2 on Saturdays and home visits were common. You didn't need an appointment, you just turned up at the surgery, took a lollipop stick with a number on it and waited your turn. Fast forward to 2021 and the last time I tried to make an appointment I was told it would be 7 weeks. The practice now has 6 doctors, 4 nurses and 3 receptionists.

    What happened?

    Eddie
    Thanks for this Eddie, when I was in Sheffield. One doctor and turn up for an appointment. Get seen and helped.
    Now fast forward our Medical Centre has about the same as Eddie says. But you can not get an actual appointment. A telephone call if you’re lucky. I should have had my Blood taken January to check my Thyroid Function. Not Taken. Should have been referred June for an endoscopy for my Barrett’s not happened, however received a letter advising endoscopy will be in December!
    WTF are these Doctors doing?? If not seeing patients. Not taking calls, but will if you’re lucky ring you.


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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogroover View Post
    What would you like the government to do - install a political officer at every newspaper office, to check and approve the content of their editorials?
    No, but a law stopping oligarch using newspapers as personal propaganda tools would be helpful.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogroover View Post
    What would you like the government to do - install a political officer at every newspaper office, to check and approve the content of their editorials?
    I was under the impression that this ^^^ had already happened.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

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  23. #23
    Grand Master Neil.C's Avatar
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    In contrast to many on here my GP's surgery is a pretty luxurious place that has out patient surgeries as well as full ECG etc facilities.

    When I went for a check up a while ago my GP wanted me to have an ECG so instead of having to make a hospital appointment I just went into the next room.

    My main GP is mostly a pen pusher now although recently he was doing all the Covid jabs.

    He has around half a dozen GP's and quite a few nurses on his staff and I cannot praise the surgery highly enough.

    Phone in the morning and you'll get an appointment the same day.

    I think the "GP mini hospital" way is possibly the future.
    Cheers,
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  24. #24
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    I think they're mostly good people, mostly trying to do their best against a rising tide and a backdrop of insufficent support and resources...but they're only human, there's only so much bandwidth.

    Good luck to you OP.

  25. #25
    I have long-term health issues. I have not seen a listed Partner doctor for about three years, once they rise to Partner status they seem to disappear from doing consultations and are replaced by locums. In fact I haven't seen a fully qualified GP during that time. All of my recent appointments have been with Nurse-Practitioners or specialist nurses.

    It can only be assumed that the Partner GPs are earning enough money (share of the profits) to semi/fully retire from day-to-day consulting. Perhaps they would not want to employ extra Doctors to meet demand as this would affect their practice profits?

    I've written elswhere about the difficulties of actually getting an appointment at all with my GP practice.

    I'm beginning to think that the practice 'gatekeepers' are partially to blame. It appears to me that Practice Managers put in place procedures that try to keep patients away from actual medical practitioners.

    At my GP practice you have to explain your medical issue to the Receptionist (by phone) who will then decide if you're ill enough to have a telephone call-back chat with an actual Doctor (or Nurse -see above). This can lead to patients either exaggerating their symptoms to try to get an appointment or being fobbed off and thinking that there is nothing really wrong with them. Since when did telephone receptionists become qualified as to who get medical treatment or who doesn't?
    Are Receptionists bound by Patient Confidentiality regulations? How is this policed?

    It's interesting to compare and contrast the service provided by a vetinary practice. I know vets are private commercial practices, but most GP practices are run like commercial businesses these days.

    BTW you cannot go to the Doctors for minor first aid these days - when a relative turned up at the Doctors with a bad cut (required some butterfly stitches and a dressing) they where told to go to A&E. I'll say it again, is it any wonder that A&E Depts are said to be overwhelmed periodically?

    So what's the answer? I don't know as I am not a 'patient flow' expert. If you want a lottery organising, that is my specialist area of expertise.... hang on, come to think of it....
    Last edited by Alpha4; 30th September 2021 at 15:17.

  26. #26
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    From a personal view, I usually don’t go to the doctors because the couple I’ve seen were trainees and never helped. Recently I found an issue. On the Thursday I tried to get an appointment and was sent to nhs web app, referred back to phone docs, got a phone appointment the following Tuesday, got a physical appointment a few days later and saw a surgeon within a month for a consultation so I’m waiting for an op now. It’s not cancer but I was surprised how quick they acted. But I had to change surgeries to get a doctor that could be bothered.

    Can’t compare doctors and drivers, either in pay or conditions. We both do stupid hours, some of our lads were on minimum wage until recently. The great unwashed see drivers and the shortages on the shelves but they never usually see doctors so they cannot have any empathy with them.


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  27. #27
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    I haven't been to a GP practice in about 5 year. I've had two online consultancy in the interim, using the GP service provided by my health insurance. I've found that the majority of GP's to be helpful, pleasant and knowledgable. I'm had a few exceptions, I tore my calf muscle - this was about 10 years ago - and I knew more about the injury than the GP did. But they were exception. My experience of GP practices is less positive and one of ether reasons I now avoid going. Lots of hold time on the phone, lots of repetitive questions, difficulty in getting appointment etc.

    To the OP, I think some of the ill feeling comes from the sense that practices are creating an artificial shortage. GP practices are businesses, run for the benefit of their business owners, the GP partners. They have been since the inception of the NHS. I'm fine with that. But they have a single customer, the NHS, to whom they are accountable. The mix of private and public is rarely ideal. I would like to see the practices much more transparent and accountable to their patients.

  28. #28
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    When I look at the salaries of people on this forum I struggle to see how anyone can think GPs are overpaid. As to the issue of people not being able to obtain a telephone consultation, yes it's inconvenient, but I don't know why people think that's because GPs are taking it easy - apparently it can take 3 months to get your watch serviced but everyone accepts that's because there are a finite number of watchmakers.

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Suds View Post
    When I look at the salaries of people on this forum I struggle to see how anyone can think GPs are overpaid. As to the issue of people not being able to obtain a telephone consultation, yes it's inconvenient, but I don't know why people think that's because GPs are taking it easy - apparently it can take 3 months to get your watch serviced but everyone accepts that's because there are a finite number of watchmakers.
    How do you know the salaries of people here, you probably might know a few at most? I'm sure there are many with salaries a lot lower who are more modest.

    Personally, I've always thought that GPs were well paid

  30. #30
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suds View Post
    When I look at the salaries of people on this forum I struggle to see how anyone can think GPs are overpaid. As to the issue of people not being able to obtain a telephone consultation, yes it's inconvenient, but I don't know why people think that's because GPs are taking it easy - apparently it can take 3 months to get your watch serviced but everyone accepts that's because there are a finite number of watchmakers.
    Salaried general practitioners (GPs) earn £58,808 to £88,744 depending on the length of service and experience. GP partners are self-employed and receive a share of profits of the business.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Salaried general practitioners (GPs) earn £58,808 to £88,744 depending on the length of service and experience. GP partners are self-employed and receive a share of profits of the business.
    this is not including any outside consulting /other work - ive seen consultants /GP's with eye watering total salaries.

    do i think GP's ae underpaid? - no , do i think the system they work in needs a major overhaul - yes

    the problems within the NHS have been around for a long time and have not been addressed , my practice has gone from not bad to a shambles over the last 18 months.
    covid and the recent problems with fuel show that most of the infrastructure of the UK runs on a knife edge , doctors dont vanish overnight anymore than lorry drivers do -this isnt the twilight zone.
    Last edited by pugster; 2nd October 2021 at 09:56.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Salaried general practitioners (GPs) earn £58,808 to £88,744 depending on the length of service and experience. GP partners are self-employed and receive a share of profits of the business.
    Why bother?

    I've seen a 21 year old without a degree in London walk into 40k for a permanent UX role then leave 18 months later for 50k elsewhere.

    If I had a time machine I'd go back for a niche/trendy job like that or as a data scientist. The data scientist at our place makes more than the director they report into.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    Why bother?

    I've seen a 21 year old without a degree in London walk into 40k for a permanent UX role then leave 18 months later for 50k elsewhere.

    If I had a time machine I'd go back for a niche/trendy job like that or as a data scientist. The data scientist at our place makes more than the director they report into.
    I've just hired a 25 year old in a sales role on a 6 figure package. Fact is many tech/sales/finance guys will make significantly more money than even a Consultant surgeon despite needing nowhere near the same level of qualifications and having nowhere near the same level of responsibilities. So I think GPs (and doctors in general) shouldn't earn less than these people. In the US medical salaries are much higher.

  34. #34
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    Why bother?

    I've seen a 21 year old without a degree in London walk into 40k for a permanent UX role then leave 18 months later for 50k elsewhere.

    If I had a time machine I'd go back for a niche/trendy job like that or as a data scientist. The data scientist at our place makes more than the director they report into.
    Perhaps they want to be Doctors, perhaps money isn't their only incentive.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  35. #35
    Master j0hnbarker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    Salaried general practitioners (GPs) earn £58,808 to £88,744 depending on the length of service and experience. GP partners are self-employed and receive a share of profits of the business.
    Those figures are not correct.

  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by j0hnbarker View Post
    Those figures are not correct.
    Too low.

  37. #37
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j0hnbarker View Post
    Those figures are not correct.
    Any corrections appreciated.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by j0hnbarker View Post
    Those figures are not correct.
    They are roughly correct, like I said in the first post. Salaried GPs earn usually between 8-10k per session (read half day) per year. So it depends on how many sessions you want to do. But you would work my physical time than your allocated sessions because of all the admin that comes with those sessions. Full time would usually equate to 6-7 sessions a week. So between 50-70k per year for most salaried GPs.

    Partners can earn more, or less, in fact. Depends how profitable the practice is.


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    I am interested - what do you think of GPs in this country? (long read)

    I’ve lived where I do now for 14years. Never met the person that is supposedly my GP as I’ve never been able to get an appointment and now routinely go private.

    Last time I requested an appointment it was a 9 week delay before an appointment.
    The practice has been in special measures ( whatever that means) for along time.

    I’ve recently had 2 texts and 2 emails notifying me the doctor is retiring and do I want to sign his leaving card or attend a leaving presentation.

    What do I think ? The concept sounds nice but in practice it’s a commercial business now and I’d rather go private, have their attention for 20min and leave with a solution.
    Last edited by joe narvey; 30th September 2021 at 22:38.

  40. #40
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    It is such a shame... We should have a system where your NHS GP can spend 20mins with you and not feel they have made themselves even more late than they already are.

    I worry that this private creep will continue until we lose what we have completely. Then the poorest will suffer the most, the middle class will be shafted financially if they get expensively ill and the rich won't care.

    Quote Originally Posted by joe narvey View Post
    I’ve lived where I do now for 14years. Never met the person that is supposedly my GP as I’ve never been able to get an appointment and now routinely go private.

    Last time I requested an appointment it was a 9 week delay before an appointment.
    The practice has been in special measures ( whatever that means) for along time.

    I’ve recently had 2 texts and 2 emails nothing me the doctor is retiring and do I want to sign his leaving card or attend a leaving presentation.

    What do I think ? The concept sounds nice but in practice it’s a commercial business now and I’d rather go private, have their attention for 20min and leave with a solution.

  41. #41
    Grand Master Passenger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watchstudent View Post
    It is such a shame... We should have a system where your NHS GP can spend 20mins with you and not feel they have made themselves even more late than they already are.

    I worry that this private creep will continue until we lose what we have completely. Then the poorest will suffer the most, the middle class will be shafted financially if they get expensively ill and the rich won't care.
    I think you' ve nailed it in the 2nd paragraph...every new crisis/disaster an opportunity, Test and Trace for example.
    Last edited by Passenger; 30th September 2021 at 20:50.

  42. #42
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    Shame Doctors aren’t trained in prevention rather than selling.


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    I am interested - what do you think of GPs in this country? (long read)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chinnock View Post

    Shame Doctors aren’t trained in prevention rather than selling.


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    Absolute nonsense.

    There is a branch of medicine for that called public health. Funnily enough, they’ have been in the news a lot recently.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by j0hnbarker View Post
    Absolute nonsense.

    There is a branch of medicine for that called public health. Funnily enough, they’ have been in the news a lot recently.
    Indeed, preventing disease is public health and in actual fact far more about socioeconomic factors than healthcare. The stuff that isn’t socioeconomic is about education and lifestyle - diet, exercise, sleep and stress management in a nutshell.

  45. #45
    Grand Master Chinnock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j0hnbarker View Post
    Absolute nonsense.

    There is a branch of medicine for that called public health. Funnily enough, they’ have been in the news a lot recently.
    Quote Originally Posted by watchstudent View Post
    Indeed, preventing disease is public health and in actual fact far more about socioeconomic factors than healthcare. The stuff that isn’t socioeconomic is about education and lifestyle - diet, exercise, sleep and stress management in a nutshell.
    Amazing how doctors still advocate a diet based on a food pyramid that supports inflammatory disease relating to heart, cancer and diabetes.

    Still, ensures the pharmaceutical industry isn’t out of pocket.

  46. #46
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    Don’t tar all doctors with the same brush. I have a special interest in exactly this and just came back from a conference looking at the dietary inflammatory index of diets and how they relate to cardiovascular disease, cancer and mental health issues. That food pyramid is clearly crap. Ancel Keys and his Seven Countries study is rubbish and has a lot to answer for.

    My own personal mission as a doctor is safe deprescribing and promoting lifestyles not pills to prevent disease.

    I find it equal measures amusing and insulting how “gurus” who act like they have discovered the benefits with lower carb or anti-inflammatory, basically pretend that they are opposed to all doctors as a way of marketing themselves. Those darn evil doctors! Check out Dr Unwin’s work to see how proper doctors are using these diets.

    So, with all due respect, pull the other one! :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chinnock View Post
    Amazing how doctors still advocate a diet based on a food pyramid that supports inflammatory disease relating to heart, cancer and diabetes.

    Still, ensures the pharmaceutical industry isn’t out of pocket.
    Last edited by watchstudent; 30th September 2021 at 22:21.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chinnock View Post
    Amazing how doctors still advocate a diet based on a food pyramid that supports inflammatory disease relating to heart, cancer and diabetes.

    Still, ensures the pharmaceutical industry isn’t out of pocket.
    Where on earth have you plucked that nonsense from?.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  48. #48
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    If the NHS wasn't underfunded that bloody red bus wouldn't have resounded with so many people, we have a growing aging population at the same time as the NHS is being intentionally starved, it's evident from this thread that as per usual many would sooner blame those at the sharp end rather than those creating the problem.
    In all likelihood the NHS is doomed not because the 'front line' don't care, but because so many would sooner "clap for the NHS" whilst continuing to make excuses for voting for the status quo.
    As for the OP, I have immense respect for his / her chosen career, I and my family continue to receive excellent health care during these incredibly trying times.
    Last edited by number2; 30th September 2021 at 21:23.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

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  49. #49
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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Cruel.
    Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.

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