Hi
Looking to have some work done and the builder is looking for a 10% deposit on order/instruction to proceed in approx 6x months.
Is this common practice ? Not sure this is a great idea....however strange times.
Best Neil
Don't think 10% is the norm...I ask for a grand up front at the signed up agreed estimate stage to keep that slot in my diary.
It allows the customer to show their commitment to the deal they've entered into with me. Nobody wants a 3 month plus hole in the diary and in truth, a grand is just a token gesture in the bigger picture.
I would be OK with this, as long as the deposit is refundable if the builder pulls out. The builder needs you to show some commitment to the deal, before they commit it to their dairies, blocking out other potential clients.
What if the builder gets a better offer and leaves you high and dry with no builder? Works both ways.
Should it be a non-refundable deposit on breach of contract, unless extreme circumstances like death or serious illness get in the way?
My daughter had a builder in who wanted 50% on a £45k job and couldn’t start for 6 months he told her it was common practice lol and that’s how he’d been trading for years a quick check on companies house showed he’d been trading 18 months with a p**s poor set of accounts he was told to jog on
Builders?
FML
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
10%? What for. None of the builders i work with ask for any deposit and will invoice in arrears broken down usually in 25% increments .
Id give a token amount to book the job in but depends on how much that 10% is - if anymore than a £1000 I’d say jog on.
Last edited by eagletower; 25th September 2021 at 21:58.
We just had a driveway block paved and some conservatory work done. Both wanted deposits, with 3 month lead times. Block paving guys were great starting work within a week of projected date and a great job. Conservatory guys did a good job but had to wait longer than expected.
I wouldn't sign an order for work again unless I could back out and get my deposit back if they didn't start within a week of the projected date.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
No, you’ll never see a deposit with Minor Works/Intermediate Form of Contract/Standard Form of Contract under the Joint Contracts Tribunal forms of Building Contract. Which form are you executing the works under?
We never ask for deposits ,but I’ve heard about companies that have asked for upto 50%.
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I'm not a builder but isn't it reasonable to have some initial payment for materials and labourers rates etc? Not necessarily a deposit though.
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Not the norm, and you will lose your money if the builder goes bust in the meantime.
I paid the builder for materials when ordered, and labour every week in arrears.
Find a different builder.
Don't builders do credit cards?Originally Posted by noTAGlove
Never knowingly used any of these (at least formally identified as such) for the various kitchens, conservatory, landscaping etc works over the years...
As for deposits, builders are in very short supply at the moment so perhaps this is their side of not being messed about by the client. But I would be a bit wary of handing over too much in advance but expect to pay in increments as the work progresses. And would only do so if I was confident in them as a company. As for getting another builder, it may easier said than done if you have expectations of the job being done soon.
That’s fine if you aren’t aware of the most common forms of Building Contacts by JCT, I am a Building Surveyor/Project Manager of 25 years experience. I have never paid a deposit and only ever paid Builders on monthly valuations or upon completion if its a small job. This is industry standard. I have never had any issue procuring works on this basis; accepting builders are busy at present and I may have to wait six months.
You may be a professional but having employed six or seven contractors over the years I have remained blissfully ignorant of the JCT - still no idea - and in my part of Suffolk a six month wait for a builder would be a result.
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I’m a building surveyor/ project manager and in my professional capacity, a deposit is never required. This in most cases though is because we have established relationships with the contractors and also have the fall back of purchase orders and letters of intent etc.
Having tried to procure a project for an upcoming house extension, I too have encountered this type of behaviour from builders. I can sympathise that they are trying to manage diaries and also judge someone’s commitment to going through with the work.
I’ve often thought that there should be some kind of escrow system in place where a client can place their money to prove their intent without actually handing over a massive chunk of cash which someone could do a runner with.
Maybe I should start a PayPal esque payment portal for small works and make my millions 😂
I had an extension built earlier this year plus some other work from the same firm. Deposit was never mentioned, the agreement was 4 stage payments of 25% as the work progressed. Final payment was only made after all work and snags had been finished.
I'm a partner of a building company and we only ever ask for a £1000 deposit. The whole trade is experiencing a boom at the minute and as such we're booked up until well into next year. We don't like to ask for a deposit, but we also don't like to have confirmed customers drop out at last minute, so the deposit is there to stop that.
10% deposit sounds like you're helping cashflow, which isn't really what a deposit is intended for. I'd suggest a £1000 shows enough commitment from you.
As for being concerned about the company 'doing a runner', check they're a limited company, find out who the directors are, where their registered office is, and read some reviews, ask if they have any recent customers you can speak with.
I'd have no issue providing any of the above info about our company.
A week within a projected date is a bit unrealistic at the moment. For example, we've a few jobs on a the the moment where windows and doors have been over 6 weeks behind schedule, this holds up the entire job. This year we've had shortages and delays on roofing tiles, timber, plaster, cement, windows and doors, to name a few. Along with staff and subbies being off sick, isolating, or pinged by track and trace.
In the past it was just wet weather which would cause delays, now that's the least of everyone's problems. Tomorrow, fuel shortage could cause a problem. Who could have predicted that when booking in work six months ago, it wasn't even an issue last week.
Just had a conservatory roof fitted. Was given a start date which kept moving back, apparently because of 'supply problems with the manufacturer'. Phoned said manufacturer who quoted 4 week delivery on any order. Was told it was the special glass we ordered, which was holding up delivery. Phoned manufacturer again, they said yes was a delay on said glass, could take up to 4 weeks! Found out said roof hadn't been ordered yet. 6 weeks after supposed start date they came and fitted the roof.
Did a fine job in the end that I'm happy with, but why make up excuses for not starting when you said you would.
Also had the driveway block paved. The company (recommended by near neighbours) started on the date they said they would, did a great job and well pleased. They were the dearest quote of the 3 we got, and worth every penny.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Hi
Thanks for the replies so far....I've now agreed with the builder in principle on a reduced deposit of £500.00p.
The suggested Payment milestones are:
and apart from it not adding up , I'm a bit concerned that I'd be £7k into a £16.3k job with only the footings done ( which are a small part of the works , the main work is to increase the height of the existing walls & replace the old conservatory roof with a new replacement flat roof ).
Are milestone payments not due on completion rather that commencement ?
Best Neil
No2 should be added and paid with number 7. Other than that you are paying at the end of each stage….Hi
Thanks for the replies so far....I've now agreed with the builder in principle on a reduced deposit of £500.00p.
The suggested Payment milestones are:
and apart from it not adding up , I'm a bit concerned that I'd be £7k into a £16.3k job with only the footings done ( which are a small part of the works , the main work is to increase the height of the existing walls & replace the old conservatory roof with a new replacement flat roof ).
Are milestone payments not due on completion rather that commencement ?
Best Neil
You need to have 10% for snagging, otherwise if he has your cash you won’t see him again.Hi
Thanks for the replies so far....I've now agreed with the builder in principle on a reduced deposit of £500.00p.
The suggested Payment milestones are:
and apart from it not adding up , I'm a bit concerned that I'd be £7k into a £16.3k job with only the footings done ( which are a small part of the works , the main work is to increase the height of the existing walls & replace the old conservatory roof with a new replacement flat roof ).
Are milestone payments not due on completion rather that commencement ?
Best Neil
Payment #2 ? Why does he want/need 3.5 grand on the day the work starts ?
He won't have even stuck a spade in the ground at that stage....
The idea of stage payments is that the scheduled points of the work is always ahead of the payment. This boils my piSS, it really does.
He should be billing you in arrears for the work he's done, when he has done them and not before.
The way he has it structured there is he can knob off at anytime with a full pocket therefore zero incentive to do the job.
I urge you to tread very carefully if you agree and go ahead with what's been written there.
Last edited by reggie747; 2nd October 2021 at 13:19.
4k before he has started any work...No chance. First payment once footings are in
My point exactly !!
All this talk about the builder running off with your money,have you done your homework,how does he get work.
If he’s that sort of builder he won’t be in business long,bad news travels faster than good .
What he completes the job and has only had half his money,and you don’t want to pay anymore ,then what,trust is needed by both .
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I must admit it seems all a bit anti-builder on here, maybe the builder has been to site and looked at the job, client etc and come to the conclusion something doesn’t feel right. And he’s thinking, will I get my money once I’ve completed the stage after paying out for all materials and labour? A lot of people talking how much timber has risen as of late, have you seen the huge rise across the board for building materials. Many small builders cannot get credit now and need to pay upfront for materials especially concrete as you cannot just go back to site and take it back !! So perhaps he’s thought I’d rather be in the plus and not the other way around as he may have had someone not pay the agreed amount for work and come out the loser at some stage. If he’s a long standing builder he can pick and choose his jobs and the t&c’s he is happy to work under. My company has fitted a set of £7K+ bi-fold doors only for the client to chip away at the price because they have gone over budget and they need to claw back some money, maybe they never even had the funds in the first place.
Its not all one way traffic and many builders will give you plenty of examples where the client cannot be trusted. This isn’t a slight at the OP but just another perspective to look at things, there are numerous good trustworthy building firms out there and word of mouth is the very best advertisement of all.
I've, sadly, watched too many consumer shows on Channel 4 and Channel 5 where folk have dropped 40 and 50 grand with a "builder" only to to see him ride off into the sunset after a week or two.
You never know were people go to choose their builders.
Recommendation, everytime, has been putting food on my plate for the last 30+ yrs.
Any builder will have an account with most suppliers so will be able to pay at the end of the month
And if the job in question takes say 6 weeks to complete the builder is being asked to settle his account paying for materials he’s not yet been paid for after a month. There has been a huge change in the window industry since the lockdown with many suppliers especially the smaller ones now asking for 50% deposit upfront before they even start ordering the materials. Especially orders involving aluminium products, we have been trading for 40yrs now and have never advertised on any media. We purely get recommended by our customers and likewise a lot of our customers get recommended to us by our customers so we know that funds are usually safe. We do not undertake any work that comes from the internet route too many unknowns that could trip up businesses. But there are always builders that are happy to take this route.
Ask friends, family, colleagues, neighbours or even if you drive past a site and you think it’s a decent job then go and knock on the door and ask the owner would he recommend the builder, I have never had any tradesmen work in my house that has not been used by a trusted person.
We’ve just booked a window company to do close to 20 grands worth of work. No deposit, payment on completion. This is a small local firm.
And the very best of luck to themI hope it all goes well for both parties.
They came highly recommended by our neighbours, and have been in business for 25 years, and they’ve managed without ever taking a deposit, so I think we’ll all be fine. He did say that a well run business shouldn’t need to take deposits, and trades people asking for large deposits was a sign of cash flow problems in the business.And the very best of luck to them
And there is the biggest clue of all
When we had the renovation/extension work done we used a known reputable builder who friends recommended.
No deposits, invoice for time and materials presented, agreed and paid monthly - no drama and no surprises.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
I’m still chasing a local tradesman for two bathroom renovations he did for me. He doesn’t appear to want my money! They’re not all bad!
I see him often on the road and every time I do I send him a reminder that he hasn’t sent me a bill
Been almost 2 years now (iirc)
Playing devil’s advocate here but if you are that busy why would you worry about a client dropping out? I’d have thought the next person in line would be delighted to have work start a bit earlier, or alternatively fit another job into the cancelled time slot.
We've spent over £50k on various building works over the last 2+ years with over a dozen different builders and not one of them asked for a deposit. That however, is in stark contrast with another property in the village whose builder insisted on interim payments, subsequently got most of the money paid to them and the work still remains unfinished after nearly a year.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
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