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Thread: IWC Portugieser problem - stopping overnight

  1. #1
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    IWC Portugieser problem - stopping overnight

    I recently bought a brand new Portugieser Automatic 40 (IWC 82200 Calibre), which supposedly has a 60 hour power reserve. However, I have noticed that once I take it off, it stops well within the 60 hours. As an experiment, I waited until it had stopped, then put it on my watch winder for two days. This got it going. I then wore it yesterday evening, and then took it off about 22:30. It stopped at 07:30 this morning. So it only ran for about nine hours. A similar thing happens when I manually wind it last thing at night - it is touch and go whether it will keep going through the night.

    I have checked it for magnetism using Lepsi - no magnetism. After manually winding it just now, it did not want to run at first, I had to tilt it a few times to get it going. The movement is definitely very finicky.

    This is my second experience of this type of behaviour from this model. I returned a previous example (from a different dealer) for a full refund; at the time I assumed the watch was faulty, especially as it had been in stock for who knows how long. However, my current Portugieser is new from the factory - I received it 01/09/2021 after a six week wait for IWC to release it for export to the UK.

    Out of all of my watches, this is by far my favourite in design and style, just the flipping thing keeps stopping! I am not sure what to do. Does anyone else have experience of this calibre? Am I not winding it properly? The fact that my watch winder got it going from stopped suggests the winder was set up correctly. Is the movement "wearing in" and will improve over time? Is that a thing? Or is it faulty? This is hard to believe as this is the second one in a row with this problem. It must have been fully quality checked before it left the IWC factory a few weeks ago, so if I return it to IWC for evaluation, what more are they going to do that did not already do when it left the factory?
    Last edited by Tatters; 17th September 2021 at 09:52.

  2. #2
    Master
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    A) You should test the reserve by manually winding it full.

    B) If the reserve is fine, then put it in to a winder and make sure it turns enough to wind it full.

    If the reserve is fine after that, it probably means that you’re too ”passive” to wind the watch full.

    If the reserve doesn’t get fully wound in A) or B), then you know where the problem is.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJL25 View Post
    A) You should test the reserve by manually winding it full.

    B) If the reserve is fine, then put it in to a winder and make sure it turns enough to wind it full.

    If the reserve is fine after that, it probably means that you’re too ”passive” to wind the watch full.

    If the reserve doesn’t get fully wound in A) or B), then you know where the problem is.
    Thanks. Regarding A, there is no power reserve indicator on this watch, so I don’t know when it is fully wound. The manual says to wind it 20 times to get it started, but does not say whether that is fully wound. I wound it about 40 times this morning, and I will see how that goes.

  4. #4
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    20 winds will be nowhere near enough to fully wind the mainspring, neither will 40 as its a 60h power reserve watch.

    Manually wind the watch, at a guess at least 60-70 turns, continue winding the watch slowly and when it reaches full wound you will hear the slipper clutch actuating (a light clicking sound) when you reach this stage you will know its full wound.

    Now, put the watch down and dont wear it, monitoring the time you put it down. Keep an eye on it and note when it stops.

    Anything else will give you false indication of its reserve.
    Cheers,

    Ben



    ..... for I have become the Jedi of flippers


    " an extravagance is anything you buy that is of no earthly use to your wife "

  5. #5
    Grand Master
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    Agree with above comments, you have to get the watch fully wound. You either do that by hand-winding (at least 60 twists) or by being extremely active. You're making an assumption that the watch winder has wound it sufficiently, that's unlikely. As for Lepsi detecting whether you weatch is magnetised, that's utter rubbish, forget it. Magnetism affects the hairspring pallet lever and escape wheel, you will NOT detect this using a compass and you certainly won't using your telephone.

    As for your watch winder, I don`t care how much you like it, scrap the bloody thing. They really are the worst way to treat a watch, I come across relatively new watches with extensive wear to the auto-winding parts commensurate with a much older watch and invariably it turns out the owner has stored it on one of those infernal contraptions.

    Until proven otherwise I would work on the premise that the watch isn`t faulty. Try fully hand-winding it and see how long it runs without wearing it. If this looks fine try hand-winding it fully in the morning, wear it for a very active day for 16+ hrs, take it off and see how long it runs. It should be close to 60 hrs.

    To clarify, when an automatic watch is fully wound the last coil of the mainspring, which is held against the barrel wall by a strong bridle, will slip around the inside of the barrel acting like a clutch. Modern barrels have a series of indentations and the mainspring will slip from one to the next, that produces a fail clicking sound that can be heard on some watches. Sometimes you can feel it through the crown. If the instructions for the watch state 120 winds then that's what it must take to reach this state.

    By coincidence I`ve just assembled a movement this morning and fitted a new mainspring to the barrel 1 hr ago. The barrel walls have to be lubricated with a special grease to prevent the spring slipping excessively, it should slip in a controlled manner in increments. When the barrel is worn this can`t happen and the watch will give poor power reserve and amplitude because the spring slips prematurely. Storing a watch on a winder is a good way to hasten this process!
    Last edited by walkerwek1958; 17th September 2021 at 12:58.

  6. #6
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    Thanks for all the great advice. I had assumed that two days on a watch winder would be enough to fully wind the watch, but I suppose I was wrong. I was thinking of selling the winder anyway, as I don't use it much now.

    Re fully winding the watch - I could not find anywhere in the manual or online where it says how many turns it takes for this movement. However, after I first posted at 09:30 ish this morning, I wound the watch about 30-40 times, and then left it. I see now that it stopped at 10:30 - so it ran about an hour. I would have expected it to run quite a bit longer.

    I will try it again, this time fully winding it. I am not sure if I will be able to detect when it is fully wound (my hearing is crap, so maybe by feel). I will wind it 120 times. I am not sure what constitutes a "wind" - using a finger and thumb I don't know if I get a full revolution of the crown. Anyway, if I wind it 120 times I would expect it to run at least 24 hours.

    Edit: I have just wound the watch 120 times, and set it running at 14:19. I think it is fully wound - the crown definitely felt a little stiffer towards the end, and I could actually hear a clicking as I turned it, which I assume is the slipper clutch (but I didn't think to listen when I started winding, so I am not sure if the clicking happens all the time when winding).

    Edit 2: Checked the watch again - it stopped after 10 seconds. What the !!!! I set it going again at 14:28.

    I was resting the watch on top of a small box, which I had not opened in a while. Had a look inside - the box contains a lot of hearing aid batteries, which I had forgotten about. Could that be affecting the watch? If so, I am feeling a bit stupid...
    Last edited by Tatters; 17th September 2021 at 14:35.

  7. #7
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    IWC Portugieser problem - stopping overnight

    Just to make sure that you are winding it in correct way.
    I think you need to wind it counter-clockwise.
    Most watches are wound clockwise but i think that movement is exception.

    Last edited by EJL25; 17th September 2021 at 15:41.

  8. #8
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    The watch stopped at 15:35 after being supposedly fully wound, so it ran for just over an hour.

    There is nothing in the manual about the winding direction (clockwise or counter-clockwise), and I am a bit reluctant to try counter-clockwise, as it would be very unusual, and I would have thought that should be mentioned in the manual. There is a thread at WatchUSeek (https://www.watchuseek.com/threads/p...-2020.5283133/) where IWC state it is counter-clockwise. I have just sent a message to IWC myself asking them to confirm the correct winding direction. If it is counter-clockwise then it is a major oversight not mentioning it in the manual.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Tatters View Post
    Thanks for all the great advice. I had assumed that two days on a watch winder would be enough to fully wind the watch, but I suppose I was wrong..

    watch winders are for keeping watch running, not winding up from full stop.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Tatters View Post
    The watch stopped at 15:35 after being supposedly fully wound, so it ran for just over an hour.

    There is nothing in the manual about the winding direction (clockwise or counter-clockwise), and I am a bit reluctant to try counter-clockwise, as it would be very unusual.
    winding in both directions will do no harm. actually this is the way I wind watches - back and forth - for all my life with no ill effect.

  11. #11
    Master
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    Sounds like this watch is faulty as supplied, nothing to do whatever with the way it is wound..


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

  12. #12
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    I wound the watch anti-clockwise a few turns last night. It was very stiff in that direction, but it started running immediately, and did not stop all night. I think @EJL25 may have cracked it! I am waiting to hear from IWC direct to confirm this is the correct way to wind the watch. If so, it is very unusual, and why did they not mention it in the manual?

  13. #13
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    Check this out, if it’s the same movement then it indeed seems to be an unusual anti clockwise manual wind required:


    https://www.watchuseek.com/threads/w...-40mm.5233904/
    Last edited by Berty234; 18th September 2021 at 13:34.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berty234 View Post
    Check this out, if it’s the the same movement then it indeed seems to be an unusual anti clockwise manual wind required:


    https://www.watchuseek.com/threads/w...-40mm.5233904/
    Thanks for the find, it definitely seems to be the problem. IWC really need to put something in the manual about this, as I suspect it will catch many people out and they will get a lot of unnecessary returns or servicing requests. Indeed, I had already refunded the first version of this watch I bought, for this very reason. Now I think that it was fine all along.

  15. #15
    Grand Master markrlondon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tatters View Post
    Thanks for the find, it definitely seems to be the problem. IWC really need to put something in the manual about this, as I suspect it will catch many people out and they will get a lot of unnecessary returns or servicing requests. Indeed, I had already refunded the first version of this watch I bought, for this very reason. Now I think that it was fine all along.
    It does seem bizarre that they didn't put anything about this critical information in the manual.


    ** edit **
    Removed redundant information.
    Last edited by markrlondon; 18th September 2021 at 14:01. Reason: Correction

  16. #16
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    I have had a reply from IWC Concierge Services, which makes it official:

    In reply to your question, which is surely very accurate, we would like to inform you that the winding of your timepiece should be done anticlockwise.

    This applies to all our movement of the 82 family, like the A/82200-60 of your IW358304.

  17. #17
    Master Arcam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tatters View Post
    I have had a reply from IWC Concierge Services, which makes it official:
    Wow, and the dealer you purchased it from did not know the correct way either, pretty poor IMHO.

  18. #18
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by bry nylon View Post
    Sounds like this watch is faulty as supplied, nothing to do whatever with the way it is wound..


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
    I stand corrected, live and learn ! You would think crucial info like that would be in the booklet though...

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