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Thread: Home/ family life or extra money?

  1. #1

    Home/ family life or extra money?

    I was starting to wind down for the day around 4:45 when I received a frantic phone call from a chap with an issue with his vehicle. He wanted me to look at it this evening so I advised him that due to a customer collecting at 5 and needing to be gone at 5:15 I could only take a quick look and go from there.
    Lady picks her car up just before 5 and this other guy rocks up soon after. It was clear that his clutch was FUBAR and there was little I could do...not that I could do it straight away anyway as I’m booked solid until the 5th October.
    So with that he tells me he’ll leave his car with me and that he wants it done as soon as possible, I tell him that his soon as possible might not be what he thinks in his head it will be and the upshot is that in all probability won’t be done until early October.
    He didn’t quite understand the concept of being booked up and that for me to get his car in would mean I would have to cancel other peoples cars that have been booked in weeks ago. Sadly hours in the day can’t be generated out of nowhere and something as large as a clutch on a LR is going to take most the day.
    He then asked me about working late in to the evening for which is said I wouldn’t be prepared to do and that and then asked if I worked over weekends which I also said no. With this it seemed to send him in to a self righteous rant about me not doing everything for the customer and that he would have stayed on and got the job done at any costs. After a few strongly directed words at him he decided to accept my offer of leaving it with us and waiting until it’s fixed which could be any when between now and the early part of October. Of course he also had the option to take it elsewhere.

    When I set my business up it was done so to give ourselves freedom, the freedom to make our own decisions and more importantly not having to work weekends and late evenings. I value my home time much more than I do having an extra grand in my pocket every month.
    As I was driving home it got me thinking that perhaps I’m wrong, perhaps I should have simply bowed to his demands and stayed on over a few nights and worked weekends to get the job completed sooner, then part of me realised that as soon as I started down that slope it would likely continue.
    What would you have done given the same circumstances?

  2. #2
    I don't think I could have stayed as calm as you. Well done for keeping cool! I imagine I would have also rescinded my offer to work on it at all, given he sounds like he'll expect every future issue to be fixed 'to do everything for the customer'.

    Sounds like a potential future nightmare to me!

    Hope all does go well though and that he was just having an off day due to the car troubles.

    I thoroughly applaud your approach to work and life. Sounds like you keep an entirely sensible balance.

  3. #3
    Grand Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    You did exactly what I would have done
    Money helps but not at cost of family time.
    I can’t understand why he thought would be more important than your other customers and be able to jump the queue? I would have gladly pointed this out to him and told him to take his car with him.

  4. #4
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    As a one off I, being totally mercenary, would do it in the evening or weekend and charge double labour rate (telling him obviously).

  5. #5
    Master Halitosis's Avatar
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    Is he an existing customer or a first timer for you? Not that it has much bearing as your stated position is perfectly acceptable. The nearest JLR dealership might offer a faster service at a higher price, but then I’m sure this guy knows that and chooses to pressure you instead. Sort of customer I’d prefer to do without


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  6. #6
    Master r.dawson's Avatar
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    Do what makes you happy

    A happy work/life balance for one is totally different for another.

  7. #7
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    It all depends on the customer and their attitudes. Having owned a convenience store for ten years, I no longer work evenings or weekends with the very odd exceptions.

    In your case, he clearly thinks that he is more important than your other customers and that your personal time isn’t as valuable as his convenience.

    Let him wait his turn.

  8. #8
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by markbannister View Post
    As a one off I, being totally mercenary, would do it in the evening or weekend and charge double labour rate (telling him obviously).
    This but wouldn't ask for a review

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Halitosis View Post
    Is he an existing customer or a first timer for you? Not that it has much bearing as your stated position is perfectly acceptable. The nearest JLR dealership might offer a faster service at a higher price, but then I’m sure this guy knows that and chooses to pressure you instead. Sort of customer I’d prefer to do without
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    No he’s an existing customer however most of the people who are booked up weeks in advance in front of him are also existing customers.

  10. #10
    Master Lammylee's Avatar
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    Home/ family life or extra money?

    I turn down work all the time now ( gardening) I get a look of disbelief from people who seem to expect me to be on eternal standby for them as well. I’m 48 and finish at 5.00pm and don’t do weekends. After 30 years in the trade I’ve realised that time is far more important than extra money.

  11. #11
    I don’t think in all conscience I could charge someone 14 hrs to do a 7 hour job, however I take your points.

  12. #12
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    I think you should work the hours you want for your work life balance and should have sent him on his way as others have said he sounds like he will be a right pain in the arse, you probably should be questioning wether you need customers like this rather than the hours you choose to work

  13. #13
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    When i started my first job a wise old man said to me...you can replace lost money but you can't replace lost time...as a result of that i never did more hours than i needed to.

  14. #14
    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
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    Like you I have had customer based businesses in the past and to the contrary the customer is not always right - only in the eyes of those who will do anything for their business or money is that term logical, should have told him that the clutch going in a LR is a surprise as its normally the head gasket which turns the exhaust into a Mr Whippy foam machine!

    Family time always should come first, yes you need money for every day life but if you need to work 10/12+ hour days then something is wrong and family is going to take a back seat, many a marriage ends with over work too..

  15. #15
    Master thegoat's Avatar
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    I like what I do and am generally helpful and accommodating to clients requests if it is at all possible .
    However, the minute the voices rise and demands made, the tools are silently packed away and into the van . The amount of contractors / site agents/QS s etc who believe they can talk to you any way they like is staggering .
    I was on a job on Saturday that was behind schedule and I was on site to try and help as the original fitters were unavailable . The contractor turned up expecting the works to be completed and then told me we were expected to return on Sunday . I informed him that this wouldn’t be happening as I was taking my Mum to lunch . I swear you’d think I’d been caught kicking his puppy up and down the main road.

  16. #16
    Master Wolfie's Avatar
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    I work with a load of Americans who don’t get the concept of a working day

    I will happily do late meetings on occasion. And travel (well used to) on a regular basis…. I will even put in a long day week when needed, but, you have to have red lines

    Mine is that I won’t accept a recurring meeting that’s goes past 1730…. Non negotiable…. They still don’t understand how we have long holidays and don’t work over the weekend…. We are like aliens!

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael 38 View Post
    I think you should work the hours you want for your work life balance and should have sent him on his way as others have said he sounds like he will be a right pain in the arse, you probably should be questioning wether you need customers like this rather than the hours you choose to work
    Exactly this, all you’d have done by giving in to him was to put a price on your time you were trying to keep for your family, so next time he was in the same boat he’d be expecting the same.

  18. #18
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    I believe you did exactly the right thing.
    In a previouse job I was on good money in a high pressure job. Because of that I would stay late most days to make the next day a bit easier for myself but the next day I would do the same and so on. This just became my life and therefore became expected of me, to the point I would be made to feel guilty if I didn't stay late and miss time with my family. Bearing in mind I didn't get paid overtime!
    I eventually broke. I quit, took a 30% pay cut and started a new career. Now my work life balance is perfect and I am the happiest I've ever been.

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  19. #19
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    Do you employ anyone who could of been offered the overtime? If not then politely decline as you have and think nothing of it. Bloke sounds like a tit

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by southerner101 View Post
    Do you employ anyone who could of been offered the overtime? If not then politely decline as you have and think nothing of it. Bloke sounds like a tit
    I have subcontractors however that isn’t the type of job to do solo, accident waiting to happen there

  21. #21
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    As you know Dudley, I am in your game. I do work late when needed. But…I start work at 10am. And I’m very regimented with it. The reason is that I can drop the kids off at school and then go for a morning walk with the missus.
    If you value your family time, do not break whatever time you’ve ring fenced. Once you do, you will be working late every night.
    There have been many times that I could have started earlier and it’s ‘only’ missing one school drop off but I don’t even consider it an option in my head.

    Family first. Always.

  22. #22
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    To me there’s dozens of points both you and the customer could debate/argue/consider in a scenario like this. None of them would be particularly right or wrong, it’s all a persons own perspective on things,

    In short you’ve made a decision on how you run your business and have been straight up with him. Can’t see how that’s wrong.

    More importantly you’re more likely to ‘under promise and over delivery’ which is what it should be about. The worse people to deal with are those that ‘over promise and under deliver’.

    Right call to me!

  23. #23
    Grand Master Onelasttime's Avatar
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    I guess if he’d have been polite and sincere and genuinely in need of an urgent solution due to work or family commitments or whatever, I’d have taken the job on.

    But since he was being a bit of a dick (perhaps due to stress, bad day... we’ve all been there) I think I’d have done the same.

    However, would you have refused an old lady who desperately needed the car to take her husband to hospital, or her dog to the vets?

  24. #24
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    What I would add though mate, if you’re fully booked up until Oct, firstly fair play! And secondly, you need more staff.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave O'Sullivan View Post
    What I would add though mate, if you’re fully booked up until Oct, firstly fair play! And secondly, you need more staff.
    Cheers Dave, we’ve reduced it from 6 weeks to about 4 ( we spoke about subbies V employed a while back ) and at the moment post people are cool to wait, we’ve had another ramp installed so even another wouldn’t really help.

  26. #26
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    Rates are high for skilled men but time at home and with my wife is priceless,or on a day out etc.

  27. #27
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    It's always a tough call in these situations especially in these times of customer feedback visible to all. Sadly this type of customer are also the ones who complain vigorously if things don't go to plan. It's hard to get staff to appreciate that even if the business is in the right it will still be your problem to fix one way or another.
    We get them too and I have on occasion agreed to stay but ask them outright if it's (financially) in my interests to stay and help them out. It takes some balls for them to want service over and above and lie to your face, it's not happened yet. Granted that scenario doesn't really fit in your business.
    Stick to your guns, accept that you have probably lost a customer due to being "unreasonable" and smile when the customers tomorrow thank you for your work/speed/value for money they didn't get elsewhere. It's all a matter of balance.
    Mind you there are 2 dodgy characters that appear every now and again with Britpart boxes in their back pockets...

    Which reminds me, pm incoming.

  28. #28
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    I don’t think in all conscience I could charge someone 14 hrs to do a 7 hour job, however I take your points.
    But you won’t be charging him for fourteen hours, just seven hours at your anti social hours rate.

  29. #29
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    In my view, you have done the right thing. It’s your business and therefore your choice.

  30. #30
    Master j0hnbarker's Avatar
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    Completely depends on your line of work!

    Dudley, I think you did the right thing. You have opening hours and a successful business such that you have a waiting list. Sticking to your guns was entirely appropriate and it was probably the stressed out customer who was in the wrong by putting pressure on you. He will probably reflect on that tomorrow once the dust has settled.

    In my line of work (medicine) the concept of a set finish time doesn’t exist. I knew that when I changed careers in my late 20s so have no complaints. The number of times I have been hours late for birthdays, meals out, normal mealtimes at home with my wife etc. is just ridiculous. I think 5 hours late after a 12 hour shift was my own personal record but the frequency was/is the kicker for me.

  31. #31
    Cheers for the replies....it’s confirmed than I’m not alone with those beliefs

  32. #32
    Since going back into work at the start of the pandemic (as construction didn't get stopped other than to work out how the bloody hell to do it in a pandemic) I've worked flat since. Stupid long days and 6/7 day weeks.

    It has pretty much completely burnt me out, I've not spent the time I should with the family and things that I should have done have been delayed or neglected. I've not rested, I've not recharged, I've eaten badly and got far less healthy.

    And the only reward I've got from doing it is the opportunity to keep doing it as it has become the expected norm.

    I've politely told my management that they can go stick their head in a pig.

    Don't do it, Dudley!

  33. #33
    What would you have done given the same circumstances?


    I would wish I had more staff to take the job on earlier, or have left spaces in the schedule for those urgent repairs.

    People rely on their vehicle for work, so a fast turnaround is required on repairs, although this guy sounds a bit pushy to be honest and if you have decided to work 9-5 week days then that’s your prerogative, therefore he can either wait or go elsewhere.

  34. #34
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    I think you did the right thing, and I would have been annoyed by the guy's attitude. Agree with earlier comments that it depends on your line of work, but since it's your business you're entitled to make the rules. I don't have my own business but I'm expected to work out of hours or at weekends sometimes; it's in my contract.

  35. #35
    Grand Master GraniteQuarry's Avatar
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    He sounds like a Karen.

  36. #36
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    Surely the point here is that they expected you to work after hours. It’s on the cheeky side to even ask but to expect is outrageous.

  37. #37
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    You didn't start a business just to be treated like a PAYE lemming.

    Doesn't have to be a concrete rule, you can take a weekend job if you want and feel like the extra money or doing someone a favour but tbh I'd tell him where to go.

  38. #38
    Master ozzyb123's Avatar
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    My dad was always at work because he thought making more money would give his kids a better life than he’d had. He would stress about where we lived and how small our house was.

    All my brothers and I really needed was for him to kick a football around in the garden with us. We didn’t need a bigger garden.

    More dosh is probably pointless if that comes at the expense of quality time with family, friends or doing what you love.


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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Cheers Dave, we’ve reduced it from 6 weeks to about 4 ( we spoke about subbies V employed a while back ) and at the moment post people are cool to wait, we’ve had another ramp installed so even another wouldn’t really help.
    Yes, I remember and obviously it’s not as easy as ringing the local job centre to pick up a skilled technician.
    To be fair, I’m blessed with the lads at work. They don’t mind staying late if we’re up against it but on the flip side, I am very flexible with time off etc..
    As a rule, we tend to book a day so it’s full but not manic. It leaves time for plug-ins, smaller MoT failure work - Pads ARB links etc.. of anything meaty comes in and they can’t wait until our next free day - we’re usually about two weeks ahead - then we’ve got a decent diesel guy, a decent clutch guy etc.. we don’t make as much but it keeps them happy (and returning).

  40. #40
    I notice a couple of watchmakers are charging a premium for a faster turnaround service, and a former employer in financial services had a 50% uplift on fees for urgent work, where we would slot the work in ahead of existing work.

    I reduced my working hours to have more free time, and while I do occasionally step back in and work longer weeks it’s always on a short term basis with an agreed end/return date.
    It's just a matter of time...

  41. #41
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    My family depends on the money generated by my business, but they are more important than the money

    It is a balancing act of course, and I'll do what I can to help a customer out at short notice, but that will not infringe on time I'm meant to be at home / with the kids

    An example: a customer of mine needed a replacement part next day - our post had already gone, but I took the order, and drove to the post office to get it in the mail for next day delivery

    I still picked the kids up on time

    If driving to the post office had meant being late for the kids, I wouldn't have taken the order

  42. #42

    Home/ family life or extra money?

    When I started my apprenticeship, I worked alongside an old school guy with bags of experience and knowledge. Best thing he said to me was ‘always remember you work to live, not live to work’.

    That has stayed with me throughout, once back in 2001 I did put that to one side and ended up not taking a day off one month working extra days at the weekends and extra hours after work, when I got paid at the end of the month i realised that with all the extra work I basically just paid a load more tax and come away about £750 better off. Never again and now I simply do not do overtime, time off is more important to me.

    You did the right thing imo.


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    Last edited by Martylaa; 10th September 2021 at 08:14.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzyb123 View Post
    My dad was always at work because he thought making more money would give his kids a better life than he’d had. He would stress about where we lived and how small our house was.

    All my brothers and I really needed was for him to kick a football around in the garden with us. We didn’t need a bigger garden.

    More dosh is probably pointless if that comes at the expense of quality time with family, friends or doing what you love.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I think I will finish early today after reading that. Thank you.


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  44. #44
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    I don’t think in all conscience I could charge someone 14 hrs to do a 7 hour job, however I take your points.
    The parallel to this is you may have the choice in life to take Job A which entails little or no family time and Job B which pays less but gives a better work life balance. My outlook has always been that Job A needs to pay substantially more, as at that point the payoff becomes that for instance you are in a position to substitute those missed years of growing up with offering significant financial support to children etc who would otherwise struggle to get on the housing ladder.

    This guy wants to dictate to you the timetable to suit his needs, I'd have no issues charging him my Job A rate, ultimately he can go elsewhere if he can get it cheaper and quicker.

  45. #45
    Try a very large car manufacturer phoning at 4 O'clock in the morning demanding that you drive to their plant in Birmingham right now because there is a huge quality issue with something I've made and threatening to invoke a massive penalty clause, so I drive there (130 miles) to find one of their Muppets has tried to put a connector in upside down and bent all of the pins. My Bill was huge!

    People don't care if you have a life.

  46. #46
    Master Maysie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    Try a very large car manufacturer phoning at 4 O'clock in the morning demanding that you drive to their plant in Birmingham right now because there is a huge quality issue with something I've made and threatening to invoke a massive penalty clause, so I drive there (130 miles) to find one of their Muppets has tried to put a connector in upside down and bent all of the pins. My Bill was huge!

    People don't care if you have a life.
    That has to be Land Rover surely...
    Do tell!

  47. #47
    Master Maysie's Avatar
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    You absolutely did the right thing and credit to you for remaining polite and pleasant about it too.

    One thing I have found very helpful in my 10 or so years of running my own small business is the freedom to just turn work away if you don't like the clients for some reason. While employed, I had to work with whatever muppets were paying the bill and take all of the 'attitude' which often came from them.

    Too many people seem to have completely unrealistic expectations, which when combined with a feeling of their own superiority is an unpleasant mix to be around. I know it is a cliché, but life really is too short to put up with that type of thing nowadays.

  48. #48
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    From someone who’s screwed there life many times by helping the customers and company out, stick with your instinct. If the guy gives you say £20,000 profit a year and is a good customer maybe do the odd Saturday to help but otherwise no.
    Once you screw with your family life you can’t get the lost times back.


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  49. #49
    You definitely did the right thing, the customer was the asshole in this situation. It’s easy to forget you’re answering as a business not as a person - sorry, dear customer, the business isn’t open at night or at weekends, and is fully booked with commitments until October.

    Sometimes a business can’t serve every customer, sometimes customers have to go elsewhere.

    But on a personal level, you’ve clearly chosen how to run your business in a way that finds a balance with life’s priorities. At the end of the day, nobody will thank you for working more or putting your business first. That’s not the positive memories you’ll reflect on later in life.

  50. #50
    Grand Master TheFlyingBanana's Avatar
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    Your business, your terms FFF.

    If he didn't like it, he can go elsewhere.
    So clever my foot fell off.

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