I’ve been trying to get a blood test for a very unwell family member for more than 2 weeks. I’m told the earliest possible is Sept 17th !
Apparently it’s a National problem due to issues with the supply of glass vials.
Anyone else have direct experience of this or know what’s going on ?
Mystified as to why the supply of beer to Wetherspoons pubs and shakes to McDonald’s makes the news headlines and this, which has far more severe consequences, doesn’t.
Last edited by eddie1; 6th September 2021 at 09:00.
It was headline news on the BBC last week.Originally Posted by eddie1
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58324108.amp
Nothing that can be done really. Doctors are having to triage and prioritise. Managed to get a blood test done just before the shortage myself, 2 days later and I'd have liken been waiting until Oct.
It’s been caused by BD closing one of there plants for maintenance and compounded further by them failing to predict a rise in global demand. They therefore cannot meet current demand.
NHS England are a huge user of BD blood tubes and obtain them via NHS Supply Chain. NHS Scotland is slightly less reliant on BD tubes, as some boards use a different brand and order direct, but are not immune to problems as BD users switch to other brands to try and meet demand.
National groups were set up, certainly in Scotland and England, to look at the issue and public guidance on the use of blood tubes for the foreseeable future. It is expected that the shortage will run into next year.
BD have been doing a spectacularly good job in the last couple of years in destroying their reputation and this latest issue adds to that.
It was headline news for several days.. but as with everything these days, it's just a headline for those couple of days and then vanishes again. That and the whole Afghanistan thing was at it's peak as well so was competing for the headline space.
My M-i-L was in hosp for heartrate issues recently, and they didn't even have plasters and cotton wool to tape over the cannula site. Supply chain is messed up!
Are you able to have it done privately?
My M in L (84) is not experiencing any issues/delays. She's having one this morning. Darlington.
Always a bit of a patch work quilt in terms of deliverables/shortages by area, twas the same with the timings of the Vax rollout, weren't uniform...hopefully they get the basics... vials, plasters/cotton wool sorted asap.
Aren't the Flu jabs also being somewhat impacted, delayed this year, spoke to my folks yesterday and it sounds like their original appointments next month have been pushed back.
Last edited by Passenger; 6th September 2021 at 09:26.
Whilst there are supply chain issues caused by delays at ports and a lack of HGV drivers, for example, this is not the case hear.
BD have taken a plant offline for planned maintenance and, at the same time, failed to react to increased global demand for their products.
A few months ago BD also had a supply issue with plastic consumables used in infusion devices as a third party company who carried out the sterilisation for them falsified records and BD didn’t pick up on it. People at BD are no longer with the company as a result.
BD also issued an end of support notification on some of their infusion pumps right at the start of a global pandemic putting trusts and boards in a position that they were having to replace substantial parts of their fleet and a time when global supply of such devices was being hammered due to said pandemic.
I could go on but will stop there but let’s just say BD won’t be on my Christmas Card list.
Who exactly are BD ?
That's what I was thinking.
The governments plan to drive the NHS into the ground so private seems the only option is working. They aint daft after all
(obviously this goes for multiple scenarios not just the topic in question)
Becton Dickinson.
You may want to read Kingstepper's link above...
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Beckton, Dickinson & Co.
https://www.bd.com/en-uk
______
Jim.
I’ve done some consultancy work for BD in the past. Suffice to say none of the above comes as much of a surprise!
There are two main players in the blood collection game, BD ( Vacutainer ) and a company called Sarstedt, ( Monovette ) both make vacuum assisted tubes that are pre filled with various chemicals for different blood tests, each different tube is colour coded, red for haematology, brown for micro biology etc, thats why you have different number of tubes taken according to the tick boxes requested by the Doctor, BD is the biggest player, each Trust has a choice of who it uses, the collection technique is different for each brand and the labs are set up for a particular system and a lot is automated, its not easy to switch quickly and is a massive logistical change, I know this as for several years I was a sales rep for Sarstedt trying to switch Trusts over. One of the differences is BD use glass tubes and Sarstedt uses plastic. I expect Sarstedt are frantically doing their best to make representations to switch accounts over.
Cheers..
Jase
BD Website “ Advancing the world of health“
Nothing there about their lack of supply to the NHS
To be fair, there are a awful lot of Medical companies that are in a backorder situation, in my sector we have picked up a lot of business due to competitors shortcomings, but the good thing is that for many things, alternative products and suppliers are available, with the blood collection devices its not so easy to just chose a different supplier due to the reasons given in my last post.
Cheers..
Jase
Do you know if:
1. All sub-units of the NHS pay the same prices for Vacutainers, or do individual sub-units negotiate and pay different prices to each other?
2. Sub-units of the NHS are now competing against each other to secure supply and jockeying for position on the supply programme?
3. Vacutainers are considered critical to the delivery of services and the NHS has a risk and contingency plan for instances such as factory and supply outages?
I can only answer the first one I think, Im not certain, but I expect the blood collection systems will be on a National NHS Framework and so available through NHS Supply Chain catalogue, a vast logistics network set up between NHSSC and suppliers, this is a fixed 5 year price until the contract is offered again, think of it as a product portal accessed by the NHS ( incidentally, this is a DHL company ), (some goods are held centrally and some are shipped directly from the suppliers to the Trusts), thus will be available at the same contract price for any NHS Procurement department. There are different frameworks for different 'pillars' of product, from plasters, to surgical instruments and Theatre beds, the NHS is encouraged to buy through this route and have a target of 80% to go through NHSSC. Supposedly this gives the NHS the best prices available.
They can purchase directly but suppliers are not supposed to be able to beat the contract price.
If they are not on a framework, then individual Trusts will work out a cost depending on size and volume of units, but they will be broadly similar from Trust to Trust. It is usually Pathology departments that take the lead on the blood collection systems as the blood samples all end up there and its the analysers that need to be set up for one system or another regardless of the sub unit.
Last edited by JasonM; 6th September 2021 at 13:23.
Cheers..
Jase
In terms of Q2 NHS Supply Chain, for England, and National Services Scotland are working with BD to secure deliveries which are then prioritised for delivery to trusts and boards.
ND should not be selling to the highest bidder and it would not be to their advantage of caught doing so.
I know Scottish Government called together a CTAG (Clinical and Technical Advisory Group) on the matter and it’s clear from that that stock is being controlled a a very high level.
Thanks for your answers.
The rather chilling part of the letter to the NHS trusts is at the end where it says
“ NHS England and NHS Improvement have made system regulators, including the CQC aware of this guidance and has confirmed with NHS Resolution (NHSR) that any clinical negligence claims which may arise from the above will be captured in the usual way by the respective state indemnity schemes, the Clinical Negligence Scheme for General Practice (CNSGP) and for members of the Clinical Negligence Scheme for Trusts (CNST). Any incidents should be reported in line with usual guidelines”
They are already foreseeing negligence claims arising from this
Will BD be liable for any of the costs that will arise ?
Have they broken any contract?
Unless there is a specific clause for X units of stock holding or call off provision then I doubt if they can be held liable, there are general sections / questions when applying to be on a NHSSC framework contracts for lead times and stock but I expect it could be argued these are unforeseen circumstances. As far as I know there are not any express conditions dictating guarantees of stock. ( it may be different for 'essential for life' products but I don't know)
Cheers..
Jase
That would be entirely normal but
is hardly unforeseen circumstances.BD have taken a plant offline for planned maintenance
Not taking you to task over this Jason, just highlighting that there is nothing unforeseen in what is happening.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
True SJ, true.
Cheers..
Jase
They must have been reading this thread
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...ed-blood-tests
No issues (currently) where I live.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Depends where you live Chris, like I say, some Trusts don’t use the BD system ( I don’t know that yours doesn’t, but some don’t)
Cheers..
Jase
Just booked one today for Thursday at Barnet general, they offered me a 10:30 today .
Had bloods drawn yesterday.
First attempt (left arm): insufficient produced for testing. Vials in the bin.
Second attempt (right arm): insufficient produced for testing. Vials in the bin.
Third attempt (right arm): insufficient produced for testing. Vials in the bin.
Fourth attempt (right arm): insufficient produced for testing. Vials in the bin.
Fifth attempt (back of right hand): success!
No shortage of vials here (Vacutaine).
I also had bloods drawn on Thursday & Friday last week. I think there were a total of ten attempts to draw blood over the three days...
______
Jim.
Do you have incredibly low blood pressure?
Fat arms/deep veins.
______
Jim.
Or a very attractive phlebotomist?Do you have incredibly low blood pressure?
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