Reply With QuoteCan comment on that but this home charge sharing platform might be of interest if you have a delay in getting yours fitted.
With me taking delivery of my first EV within the next couple of weeks, I’ve started looking at the EV infrastructure, in particular charging points on the route home after picking up my car.
Now fortunately for me, the car will be a taxi so 80% of my journeys will be local town journeys so range anxiety won’t be an issue, but just looking on zap-map at my route home and I’m amazed at the amount of charging stations that come up as issues reported.
While battery range on EV’s is improving all the time, it seems the companies running the charging network aren’t.
Any EV (non Tesla owners-we know Tesla have it sussed) owners on here experienced problems trying to find working chargers while on a journey?
Can comment on that but this home charge sharing platform might be of interest if you have a delay in getting yours fitted.
Was there supposed to be a link in this?Originally Posted by Captain Morgan
I plugged my new car in at work when I came back I realised it hadn’t charged then I worked out the charger was knackered and looked like it had been like it for a long time seems like a lot of things these days something gets built or put in but never gets maintained
Why did you buy an EV if the charging network wasn't ready?
I'm not buying one yet, but obviously I will convert 90% of my driving to EV in time.
I have 2 base hospitals, neither has a single charging point yet. Some of the shops/supermarkets have a few near me.
I drove 300 miles to Cambridgeshire (and back) last week. On the motorways ALL the charging points were occupied at ALL the stops we made, If we'd been EV I think the journey might not have been competed in a reasonable time.
Not ready
Last edited by The Doc; 29th August 2021 at 12:10.
You need to read my initial post again I think. I’ve bought en EV to run as a taxi. Most of my driving will be local town driving. Other than my initial drive home, I won’t have need of charging stations.
I have a sparky calling to my house today to give me a price on a home charger so the car will be charged at home every night.
If we have any long journeys to undertake we can take our E Class diesel.
My point was, I was surprised by the lack of maintenance on public chargers. Previous to this purchase I’d never bothered looking as I didn’t have an EV.
The ecotricity network has become pretty fun down apparently but it has recently been taken over by one of the big boys so should start see some significant improvement going foreword.
I hope they do as there is an Ecotricity fast charger at my local services so if I’m out working and need a quick top up, it’s just up the road.
I’ve been studying Zap-Map because I’d like to take the scenic route home from Chester down through Wales instead of doing the motorways. It’s a lovely drive but Zap-Map doesn’t offer me that route even when I put in an added stop at Oswestry, despite there being a number of fast chargers along that route.
Yeah soz
https://co-charger.com/
Cheers, thank you.
Zap map is all you really need tbh
You’ll find you can filter in it to show which are the rapid chargers
If you have time to kill the likes of Tesco will give you free charging at many stores, but be careful of how many hours you are allowed in their car parks
Get accounts set up with BP pulse and pod point
Podpoint are the Tesco ones and you have to confirm which pod you are at and confirm or it kicks you off after about 15 mins
It all sounds complex but isn’t as the golden rule is this.....
Top up at home overnight
Nobody drives it whilst you are asleep so set you car to start charging at say 11pm through till your departure time snd if poss pre condition as it warms the battery up too
Enjoy laughing at the people who still get a thrill from throwing petrol and diesel into their tanks and telling you that electric vehicles are crap blah blah blah
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We’re having a weekend away and have been relying on public chargers and have been lucky each time and have found a working, unoccupied 50kw charger. We were charging earlier today though at a holiday inn which we found en route and in the 30 minutes we were plugged in charging, 4 Teslas, 1 polestar and 1 MG came by wanting to use it so with current infrastructure there is a certain amount of luck (along with planning) involved in any long trips.
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ZapMap is a useful resource, but the comments and reporting by users of charge failures etc are unreliable and not really an accurate picture.
Anybody reporting any problem, however small, marks the charger status red and doesn’t change until somebody posts a report saying they’ve charged successfully.
Long trips wise, I tend to look out for Instavolt chargers as they’re usually multi charger sites, take contactless payment and are generally just reliable. The closest to the Tesla experience in terms of ease of use and reliability in my view.
Due to getting a charging card with the ID.3 that has a 2000 kWh credit on it valid at Ionity and a few other networks, I tend to seek out Ionity too if they’re on my route. With the RFID card, they’re pretty reliable, if not a little expensive if you’re paying but are very quick if your car supports it. Geniepoint are also pretty good, and I’ve always found the Pulse and Shell recharge networks good as well.
But yes, maintenance of the chargers on some networks is patchy, and as Gridserve are finding as they upgrade the old Ecotricity chargers, it’s a lot harder than it looks to keep a network 100% available. Again, all issues that will be mitigated if we get the volume of chargers that we’ll need if this move to EVs is going to work at scale.
This is good to know because there is an InstaVolt and a GeniePoint on my preferred route home.
Also good to know that just because it’s showing red on zap map, it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s down.
Jay good luck with the EV step like it or not we will all go down this route soon. Re the Sparky looking at the job. Over on the GS forum there was a lively discussion on fitting home points. Apparently there is an approval body/ regulator now involved to ensure your immediate power cables are not overloaded.
From memory the cost was £94 and includes a review of yours plus immediate local users. If demand is high in your area you are given a reduced feed.
The reason for this is unlike previous high wattage items ( electric showers, remember them) using a 35 amp feed cars are on for hours not minutes. As a result the cables in the ground start heating up. Since most folk charge at night again the load is highest at certain times.
When the cables in the ground fuse and melt to each other the subsequent power outage will be lengthy as the utility company will have to dig up the road review power requirements and upgrade the local network.
The £94 registration, indemnifies you from any cost and ensures the utilities boys cant persue you for damages, since someone will have to pay for the works.
Steve
Re local charges Im sure you will find a favourite, my issue isnt always the charger being down ( although that happens) it ICE cars parked in the space because the car park is busy! I use Genei point as a provider and Zapmap for location.
Last edited by higham5; 30th August 2021 at 08:07.
Thank you for this. I’m going to contact Western Power today to arrange an upgrade on my amp, I’ll have a chat to them about this £94 thing.
At this moment in time I’ll be the only electric car around here so no worries at the moment with too many cars pulling off the grid.
It’s going to be an expensive install for me though as my current armoured cable running from my house to the garage is only 2.5 core so I’m going to have to run about 35 meters of 10mm armoured cable from my house, fit a new consumer unit under my stairs where my meter is, a new consumer unit at my garage because the one there is too small and both my gas and water aren’t bonded so they have to be done too.
Not looking forward to the bill for this.
Sounds similar to what I needed to do when I had a charge point fitted at my last property, but at least you’ll have a better electrical system in your house post install.
Your electrician/installer should complete a form V1.92 and send to the relevant DNO in line with IET code of practice, but not sure where this £94 charge comes from. My electrician completed one after a maximum demand assessment, which still came in under 60A anyway even adding in the 32A for a dedicated point to charge an EV. My house has a 100A main fuse, you’d need either two dedicated charge points or be using a heck of a lot of electricity all at once to breach 60A.
He also notified building control at the local council, informing them of changes to the electrical system, which is a requirement for non EV work too, so he said anyway.
Another thing getting an EV did for me was get me thinking about how and when we use energy for everything, and made me much more conscious about usage.
Yes, I’ve basically turned into my Dad! :-D
I’ve just signed up with Octopus. I’ll be on an interim tariff until I get a smart meter fitted, I’ll then switch to Agile and get a Ohme charger fitted which will automatically charge the car at the cheapest prices.
Does it only work at ome……see what I did there :)
Last edited by higham5; 30th August 2021 at 13:01.
I’m totally on board with the transition to an EV, but reading this and other threads it is beginning to sound both complicated and costly to make the leap at the moment. If I ran a taxi or did 50,000 miles a year no doubt I’d be making the leap right now, but as a mere mortal running a couple of modern cars about 8,000 miles a year each (living in a rural area with poor/ non existent public transport) it doesn’t strike me as a logical step to take yet. I’m no luddite but signing up to various apps/payment methods and checking maps, reporting back on whether the chargers is working etc might sound like fun to the millennials - but for my 8,000 miles a year, pumping a diesel tank full at the petrol station just round the corner and then getting 550 miles seems a whole lot easier. And I have a large drive and double garage so home charging would be a doddle in comparison to many situations. Apart from the type of users I’ve already mentioned, for an average motorist who isn’t either wealthy, keen on gadgetry and/or a car nut, I still don’t think the argument is quite there yet. Typing this has reminded me I need to look at my gas/electric supplier as my current agreement is coming to an end and the price seems to have risen an awful lot. By the time I do switch to an EV, I fully expect some fiendish tax system and huge electricity price hikes to blunt any financial benefit. I guess I’m fine with that if the planet benefits - but I might wait until my current cars become uneconomic to run first, which by my reckoning should take me to 2030. I wonder how rubbish the current EV’s and infrastructure will look at that point in time?
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Please don’t take this as a reply disagreeing with you, at the end of the day you have a valid view, but this EV lark is as complicated/involving or expensive as you want to make it really.
ZapMap is just a handy App that shows the majority of the public chargers out there in one place, you don’t have to partake in the successful charge nonsense, people just do it to help others, but as I’ve said if they mess it up through no fault of the charger then it can look like it’s out of service.
I’ve been doing this a few years, but aside from Tesla there are a couple of companies that have been quietly building cost effective and reliable rapid chargers networks all over the U.K. Instavolt is the front runner in my opinion, simple to use contactless payments, multi charger sites, and above all reliable.
Re the EVs themselves, they’ve come on a lot in the last 5 years even, so I expect they’ll be better again in 8 years or so. I agree with you with regard changing your current cars only when they’re worn out or the pricing structure for fossil cars renders them way more expensive to buy and run than an EV. Current EVs are very very good in comparison to any ICE car though, if not all priced a little higher than their petrol equivalents where they exist.
I’ve been really careful to not over sell the benefits of an EV on all the threads on this lately, just trying to share my experience, and I’d be the first to say they won’t work for everybody right now.
I’m not a mega mileage driver, nor is my wife, we’re not doing it to save money (we aren’t!) nor the planet (it won’t!), we’re doing it because it feels the right thing to do and we enjoy driving them.
I used to quietly dread the end of the fossil fuel era, I’m a self diagnosed car fan, grew up around them (my dad owned a garage) and club rallying was ‘my thing’ for a long time, but now I’m quite excited by the future of the car if them going electric means owning one will be an option for the rest of my lifetime.
All good points and I have an open mind - the concept of electric cars really does appeal to me, and it’s clearly the future.
I think I’m wary as it feels like the technology (the cars, batteries and chargers/network) is still developing apace - and I’m not keen on being an early adopter when I can wait a few more years and then buy a more into a more fully rounded, tested and evolved ecosystem. If that happens before 2030 (and I think it probably will) I’m happy to transfer to an EV more quickly.
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You’d hardly be considered an early adopter these days.
With regards to buying a car that will be outdated very soon, that’s true but it’s also true of any ICE car too.
I have been driving my van now for over six years and it’s definitely no longer the latest technology. However, it still does what it’s always done and us still perfectly adequate for my requirements in the same way that my bikes (all still ICE atm) are even though they’re old technology and 16 and 38 years old.
What I’m trying to say is that, should you buy an EV now (and I’m not saying you should), it will still be as capable (almost) in ten years time as it is today, even though there will be far better EVs on the market by then.
I had a price back off the sparky today and I have no idea if it’s cheap/normal/expensive.
Fit a new consumer unit under the stairs, bond my gas and electricity, run approx 35 meters of 10mm armoured cable up to my garage, put a new bigger consumer unit in my garage and then run 6mm armoured cable across the garage to the wall I want the charger on. The price includes all materials and Labour. £1500
The charger and fitting will be extra.
Can anyone advise on if this is an ok price or not?
I’m not sure that owning an EV is all that normal yet tbh. I don’t actually know anyone at all outside this forum that owns one. I see plenty of Tesla’s etc up here in Norfolk during the summer but parked up outside a house charging? Nope, can’t say I’ve seen one locally. I’m sure it’s different in larger towns and cities (in fact we’ve just had a whole bunch of charging points installed in the local car park for the tourists and their new fangled electric motor cars!)
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Look out for green strips on the number plates; a lot of EVs have that now. Unless Norfolk is significantly different from other parts of the country, I suspect you’ll start noticing quite a few.
I’ve certainly seen a lot more EVs on the road in the last eighteen months.
I'll get one when I can charge anywhere, get in the car anytime, drive any distance without having to plan my journey and have freedom in my car.
I thought cars were supposed to set us free.
But I won't have one for fun.
I'm keeping a normally aspirated, manual flat six (or V8) for the sunny days and days when I want to enjoy driving. All the EVs I've driven (5 different ones) were just boxes with a steering wheel.
It does sound a bit on the pricey side, my consumer unit change, some wiring, the testing of the whole house but including the charge point was about £1300. That was a few years ago though, everything is more expensive now.
I’d get a couple more quotes if you can, otherwise it’s hard to say.
I am a convert to electric for shorter journeys and run an i3 which gets used for most driving we do. However I am not convinced for longer trips so keep an ICE car for those. I have friends who have had very long journeys due to charging issues, and having just done 1500 miles through France I would not want the stress for holidays.
Saying that I now keep the petrol car on a trickle charger as we use the i3 only most weeks.
France is not great for charging at all, for a European road trip a Tesla is still the way to go for now.
Its a common theme unfortunately, charging infrastructure isn't reliable. Until it is I won't be converting just yet. With the added complication of compatible chargers and charging times its a real mine field out there. Tesla seem to have the best technology (in terms of rapid charging) but there interiors leave a lot to be desired. I'm curious to see how many people have converted to electric cars bs Plug in hybrid vehicles.
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Charging infrastructure is largely reliable, I haven’t had a genuinely 100% failed charge leaving me stranded ever, and that’s over many years.
What it needs to be is more plentiful.
There is only one slower public charging standard now which is Type 2. Every EV sold uses it. There are 2 types of rapid charging connector, the common standard of CCS2 (which is used by Tesla now as well) and Chademo used only by Nissan. Most rapid chargers have both types of connector. In time, it will be just CCS2 for rapid charging in public.
Tesla’s charging tech is nothing special, it’s the same as everybody else’s, ie filling a battery with electrons. The only difference is they have a proprietary network capable of theoretically high charging speeds. Our Tesla has never seen 3 figures in kW charging speeds on them though.
Interiors on most EVs are different, desirability will be down to individual taste, but our Chinese assembled Tesla Model 3 is very well put together, better than the US/Netherlands final assembly cars that went before it.
CCS rapid charging is the standard for the foreseeable future, when the Tesla network opens up to everybody later this year or early next, I think more people will take the plunge.
Don’t forget also that not everybody uses public charging, our neighbours on one side have 2 EVs as well, they have never public charged and wouldn’t dream of attempting something like a euro road trip.
So, just as I don’t second guess how people use their cars or tell them what will work for them, we shouldn’t assume an EV won’t work for many people either.
You replied to that with far more patience than I seem to have at the moment Tooks!
I think i'll stick to filling my tank with mushed up dinosaurs for the time being.
Out of interest, I wonder how many petrol/diesel cars there are on the road vs electrical cars and how many fuel stations there are vs charging points (not including home chargers). Would be interesting reading, maybe 1 electrical car for every 1000 fossil fuel cars? Similar for fuel vs charging points?
According to Zap-Map there are currently around 300,000 EVs in the UK, and 25000 public charging points, so 1 charger for every 12 vehicles. If you factor in all the private charging points it’s probably more like 1 charger for every EV.
Total number of cars is about 32 million, for which there are about 8000 petrol stations, I can’t find any stats for the number of pumps, but if we assume say 8 per petrol station that would 64000 pumps or 1 pump for every 500 vehicles.
On the face of it you would wonder why anyone would by an ICE!
The issue is less about the total number of charging points available but the shortage of those on key routes. All motorway service stations for example probably need to have 30 or more charging points so those driving long distances can be confident of being able to charge without queuing, and that’s what Tesla have done well.
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The only really useful charge points for mid journey stops are DC rapid points, the zap map number will include lots of slower chargers good for charging whilst you’re at your destination, but too slow for a services stop.
The Tesla charge setup whilst great isn’t omnipresent, and you’ll also find yourself queuing in peak times or at popular locations.
Comes from years of answering questions to friends and family, as well as people who tap on the window whilst I’m having a charge stop!You replied to that with far more patience than I seem to have at the moment Tooks!
Every EV thread on every forum I’ve ever been on always has people eager to tell everybody how they’re not switching and why EVs are so rubbish.
I’m like a dripping tap and trying to answer questions honestly whilst countering EV myths and legend.
I’ve been at it for over six years now but it seems that recently on here, reasons why I’ll not buy an EV is getting posted as frequently as reasons why I’ll not buy a Rolex.
I really don’t care if nobody ever buys an EV, I just wish they’d not constantly feel the need to tell everybody at every opportunity and them coming up with either the myths and legends or it’s (apparent) inability to do some mega trip that they may want to do once in a lifetime!
Wait until you meet a vegan. You'll miss the ICE advocates
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I don’t mind vegans, I watched a lot of Star Trek back in the day!Wait until you meet a vegan. You'll miss the ICE advocates
I’ve been down to Devon and back on holiday and you would find charging at motorway services difficult most of the charge spaces had normal cars parked in them never seen them so busy spent 10 mins at one driving in circles looking for a space
Except of course you don't have a petrol station at home or at work which changes the ratio/usefulness somewhat...
Regarding the home point - it can be easier to forgo the 350 grant, not have the DNO do a load test and claim the VAT back so do the maths.
Yeah - the habit of putting charging points in amongst the normal parking spaces (as opposed to a dedicated charging area) does encourage 'misuse' from certain types of people.
On a similar trip to Devon in May, i noticed that the charging points at the M5 services (can't remember which) are next to the disabled bays and so nearest the entrance and also larger than the normal parking bays - that's kind of asking for trouble really isn't it.
Another thing i noticed on the the Merc GLE 400 parked next to me (I was in a disabled bay - legitimately) was that it has an illuminated charging socket that flashes whilst charging - waste of energy there i think.
A flashing green LED around a charge socket will have a current draw in the mAh range, so you’re looking at 300+ days of continuous use before it uses even 1 kWH, or about 3 miles in a Merc GLE 400. Even longer if it’s flashing, and arguably it’s of more benefit to have a visual indicator that it’s charging.
It’s almost like the manufacturers think of this stuff!
Thats a very fair assessment of the situation. I have heard many horror stories and I think this is largely what many people base their opinions on. Plus factor in that when you watch review videos of the early EVs they were all discussing reliability, battery life cycle and range anxiety which has stuck with me.
Even though that many EVs have been in service for years without any issues.
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Agree with this, plus no need to have the (compulsory if taking the grant) smart meter fitted
Out of interest how much does it cost for a full charge on the Tesla network say on the Motorway
The Tesla Supercharger network currently costs 30p per kWh, so if you took on 70kWh in a Model 3 Long Range it would be £21.
That would get you 250-280 miles of range.
Unless you have a model S or X, many of which have free for life supercharger access.
I contemplated a 2014/2015 model S to run as a taxi because of the free charging for life. I dug a bit deeper though and found out it excluded taxis and chauffeurs.
Would have been almost free motoring.
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