Think your baseline should start at 16800, tritium, non-applied hour markers and the all-important sapphire crystal. Should be plenty about.
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Sorry for yet another Rolex titled thread!
For several months now I have been looking to get a vintage Submariner Date. One that can be used for everyday, including swimming. But has the amazing patina that the vintage models have acquired.
Initially and to a degree I would have gone for a 1680. But others members have suggested that using a watch that is 50 years old may not be the best model. For obvious reasons.
So my choices, in that case are 16800, 168000 or 16610.
The overriding factor being that it has gained the patina.
I am seeking advice from the members regarding this subject. Both pros & cons.
Also your thoughts on the possibility of using a 1680?
Of course photos are most welcome.
I am not considering a modern piece. And have since tried on the new 41mm Sub. But found it to be to large.
Thank you for any suggestions and advice.
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Think your baseline should start at 16800, tritium, non-applied hour markers and the all-important sapphire crystal. Should be plenty about.
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Clearly with older watches the bulk of the value can be in the dial and hands etc and the risk of water ingress is increased, hence why most dealers won’t guarantee waterproofing and many owners of vintage watches won’t swim in them.
If you have a watch properly serviced and all seals replaced and it passes the waterproof tests then it’s you call if you are prepared to put it to the test.
Why not have two, a newer watch for going in water and a nice Red Sub for on land.
I personally would search for a nice early 16610 with pin holes and SEL bracelet.
Completely agree........ I was going to suggest a 1680 with service dial and hands etc until I saw the wish for patina. With the value of vintage largely in the dial and hands, there are many who would not risk seriously exposing a 1680 or 16800 to water, I certainly wouldn't. A red or white original 1680 plus a modern vintage vibe watch would be a good way to go ......... a Seamaster 60th anniversary is one example.
Thanks for all your input.
The service dials do they have the white flat markers on the dial?
I would possibly go with a 1680 with a service dial and hands. As I understand that the main value of the watch has already been lost?
Certainly want a case with pin holes as I like changing straps.
Would love to have a Red Sub but finding a genuine one is not so easy. And when you do the price is most likely out of my reach.
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Your answer is a matte dialled 16800.
The beauty of a vintage dial but the convenience of sapphire crystal and a quickset date.
Having the papers and to some extent the box, increase the chance of the watch being genuine?
I see that companies such as Watchfinder offer a "Letter of Authentication" if there are no original papers. Would that suggest that the watch is genuine in all aspects.
Or purchasing from a reputable dealer without either B&P's is just as trustworthy?
A dealers certificate of authenticity is on a par with the watch was fully serviced, by our guy in the back
Speaking about red subs, how much are they going for? Mike Wood seems to retail for £22.5k
Fmf
16800 is a good balance between patina and wearability IMHO
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I'm a bit surprised by the 'i wouldn't swim wearing it' comments about older subs. If it's been serviced, had new seals and a pressure test it's no more likely to leak then a modern watch surely. Ok...if it does leak you've lost the value but I'm struggling with 'owning a vintage tool watch, getting it serviced and pressure tested, but still babying it'.
Anyway... Ignore me... I'm adding nothing to the op's question!
I’d go for a 16800 matte dial with a sapphire Crystal ., awesome watch and I love mine but getting harder & harder to find nowadays.
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I’d go for a 16800 matte dial with a sapphire Crystal ., awesome watch and I love mine but getting harder & harder to find nowadays.
I agree with Paneristi. SEL + lugholes + super luminova is my personal favorite.
16610 review
16800 is amazing too.
I never liked the 1680's slow beat and bulged plastic crystal. Just a taste thing of course but 16610 is "dressier".
Would you consider a Sea Dweller 16600? I was in the market for a 14060M and ended up trying on a mint unpolished 2002 16600 yesterday and fell in love with it. Bit chunkier than the 16610 but the subtle differences make it a better watch for me than the more commonly available subs
To be fair, I can probably count on one hand how many times, that I go swimming per year.
But was setting my requirements a bit higher, to take into account such eventuality.
Lovely photo of a Top Hat.
I have previously had a couple od SD'd which were great, but on this occasion, I don't wish to have a chunky watch.
JPE, I loved you review, when I read it last time and that may have been one of the reasons why I started thinking about getting a vintage piece.
Certainly, haven't ruled out the 16610
Been looking at this piece.
https://thewatchcollector.co.uk/coll...16800-full-set
Has any member had dealing with them?
Last edited by Topcat30093; 30th August 2021 at 11:59. Reason: Added a link
i’d go 16610, easier to get hold of a genuine piece that hasn’t been messed around with. i’d be too scared to go vintage as so many of these older pieces have either service or non original parts.
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There are, but equally there are plenty of reference sites that illustrate the various dials and usually illustrate the service replacements as well. With any vintage you need to put the effort in and do a little research and understand exactly what you are buying.
For those that cannot be bothered doing that the best advice is to buy from a dealer on TRF list of approved dealers who will do the leg work for you. Buying vintage from a dealer that isn’t a specialist with no research on the part of the buyer is when problems can occur.
Well it seems to me that the 16610 is a rock solid bet.
16800 and 168000 are only slightly less of a risk due to the upgrades.
And the 1680 with a service dial/hands and had gasket/seals etc checked will be ok for my requirements.
But the 1680 with its more valuable patina on dial/hands. Should be ok for everyday use apart from swimming, in which case you take your chance.
Would that be a fair assessment?
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I think the 16610 is the best Sub ever made, it would be the last watch I ever sold out of my collection, boring predictable choice I know but there is just something about it that I never get tired of looking at it.
The ultimate vintage looking daily wearer has to be the matte 16800.
It’s as robust in real terms as a later sub, but looks…vintage. Spent a while looking for this one.
The only answer is the 16800. The 16610 is a great watch but I don't think it has as good a vintage vibe. The non quickset date on the 1680 would bother me also
That is easier said than done :-)
Having trawled the internet looking for a good one, which also has B&P's.
I am primarily looking with the UK.
I know that is limiting my search criteria, but concerned with not being able to see the piece and any additional import charges that I would incur,
Am I being short sighted on this?
I have to say, Thom’s 16800 is arguably the best I’ve seen.
On the 1680 / 16800 debate. I’ve had a couple of 1680’s over the years, but didn’t keep them, and seldom wore them. No quickset and the protruding top hat susceptibility. Whereas, I’ve had a couple of 16800’s for many years. I wear them regularly and without worry. Vintage charm combined with modern practicality. There’s lots of variety too in terms of patina and wear and tear, of course.
This was originally purchased on 24 March 1984 from Joyeria Riviera in Puerto Rico and has seen some action over the years...
This one from 1983 and had clearly had a more sheltered life…
[QUOTE=marksh;5827913]Very nice John , here’s mine been with me for a while now and without doubt a keeper as I love it and feel these are still under valued in today’s mad world .
That is also cracking looking watch
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A 5513 removes the non quickset date issue with the 1680, but having to set the date doesn't really bother me unless its a whole month to go. Did wonder if there was a geared gizmo available that would convert hand wind speed up a bit and then decided it wasn't really a big issue. Gives the opportunity for a bit of one on one admiration for a few minutes anyway!.
So, I wear a 1680 almost exclusively.
But, probably....a matte dialled 16800 would be the more sensible everyday choice with sapphire and quickset, many years ago they were my unobtainium Rolex that I aspired to, but once finally obtained the next possibility tends to kick in...
However, wouldn't go swimming in either - didn't when 16800's were £2K and certainly wouldn't now.....just in case.
Semi comparison would be the 1984 Honda VF1000R sports bike just bought for winter fettle - should be taken to the track once sorted, that's what it was for, but I wont - just in case.
Out of curiosity did a bit of digging, sold this on here for £3750 in 2012 - pictures not the best
Agree with others: a basic 16800 is a sound bet.