Vintage Speedmaster valuation help please.

[jneds]

I realise this is a complicated area based on multiple variables but I wonder if the Omega Speedie experts here could give me an up to date ballpark idea of what this might be worth. BTW this isn't a stealth sales post and if I list it I'll post up detailed proper pictures up and description.

The watch has a case ref ST145.0022-69 and is on a later style 1171 bracelet. I believe it's called a transitional dial and it has a "factory mistake" bezel that read "220" instead of 200.It was overhauled by STS in 2008 and I've owned it for 10 years or so. I've worn it 3 or 4 times a year but take it out and wind it every few months.

It winds easily and keep excellent time and all the chrono functions work perfectly. I appreciate that the lack of a recent service would affect value somewhat. During the overhaul the glass, crown and pushers were replaced and also new correct hands with the lume aged to match the dial. Will add some pictures of course shortly and thanks in advance for peoples views.

A quick pick from a couple of years and will post more later, thanks guys.


Cheers
Neil

[HookedSeven]

A good starting point is speedmaster101, but in my opinion the Speedy market has softened quite a bit recently so you have to be realistic in your expectations.

https://speedmaster101.com/price-chart-2/

And yes is a transitional model with the step dial and applied logo, which is actually not so common and much more desirable than the later model with the flat dial. The only obvious problem is the lume which isn’t great, but overall it looks pretty good. An STS service, even if it was done years ago, is also a plus. Pinning down a figure is hard. I had an agreed purchase in the spring at €4K but that would’ve been a bit of a steal, and also it had some issues that would have cost €500 to put right. It didn’t have the 220 bezel although the market doesn’t really seem to value that. Maybe you should be thinking in the £5-6k range, but as I said the market seems very slow so finding your buyer might take a while.

[higham5]

Darren’s Speedmaster site has some nice examples where you can look at “ retail price”

https://www.vintagespeedmaster.com/for-sale

Steve

[jneds]

Thanks very much for the replies so far, very helpful and the links too.
Here are some pictures I took today and I'm reminded of how nice it looks but a sale looks more likely due to a recent car purchase which has seriously depleted the savings.








Cheers
Neil

[HookedSeven]

Just thinking... I believe a proper transitional should have a 68 caseback and a movement SN in quite a tight range. Perhaps the combination of a transitional dial (step plus AML), a 220 bezel, and a 69 CB was not how it left the factory. Do you know the movement SN ?

[mr.chef]

As pointed out the dial is incorrect

[jneds]

Movement serial number is 316xxxxx

Cheers
Neil

[TomGW]

A 145.022-69 should not have a transitional dial. However, the bezel may be original to the watch - both this and the earlier DON bezel are correct for the -69 cases. To maximise the value you should source the correct dial and sell this transitional dial - that would leave your watch correct and should also gain c£200 in the trade.

[jneds]

A 145.022-69 should not have a transitional dial. However, the bezel may be original to the watch - both this and the earlier DON bezel are correct for the -69 cases. To maximise the value you should source the correct dial and sell this transitional dial - that would leave your watch correct and should also gain c£200 in the trade.

Really appreciate the comments so from the experts out there.
Could it not be the case though that the case back may be incorrect but everything else is correct? Does the movement number indicate ’68 or ‘69?
Also I don’t think I’m going to be looking to source another dial and get it swooped etc as I don’t really want the faff to be honest.

What could I realistically advertise it for and achieve as it is?

Many thanks
Neil

[mr.chef]

Have you got an extract? The bezel shouldn’t be on a watch with your serial. Value will be the sum of the parts, this will still be a good number but finding a buyer who wants an incorrect watch will be tricky. The parts are worth around £4-£5k

[TomGW]

Really appreciate the comments so from the experts out there.
Could it not be the case though that the case back may be incorrect but everything else is correct? Does the movement number indicate ’68 or ‘69?
Also I don’t think I’m going to be looking to source another dial and get it swooped etc as I don’t really want the faff to be honest.

What could I realistically advertise it for and achieve as it is?

Many thanks
Neil

Your movement number is later than the transitional watches. My ‘68 transitional is #2655xxxx and would actually have been manufactured in 1969, although it’s a 145.022-68.

All transitionals fall within the 26xxxxxx - 27xxxxxx range, so yours is well outside it.
The -69 caseback was used on into the early ‘70s. There weren’t any -70 casebacks.

It’s a nice watch fitted with an incorrect dial and possibly the wrong bezel for the movement ref. However, both of these are worth more than the correct items, which would make it easy to put right, if you were inclined to.

The good thing about older Speedmasters is that it’s hard to lose any money.

[Dave+63]

Your movement number is later than the transitional watches. My ‘68 transitional is #2655xxxx and would actually have been manufactured in 1969, although it’s a 145.022-68.

All transitionals fall within the 26xxxxxx - 27xxxxxx range, so yours is well outside it.
The -69 caseback was used on into the early ‘70s. There weren’t any -70 casebacks.

It’s a nice watch fitted with an incorrect dial and possibly the wrong bezel for the movement ref. However, both of these are worth more than the correct items, which would make it easy to put right, if you were inclined to.

The good thing about older Speedmasters is that it’s hard to lose any money.

Omega were quite happy to just put a new movement in the watch at service, rather than service the original movement in those days.

I had a 1964, one owner speedy that had only ever been serviced by Omega. It had a movement dated to 1972 even though that movement had ceased production six years previously.

So the later movement could be due to an Omega service.

[PickleB]

A couple of Speedmaster101's videos...simply for their interest value:

[jneds]

Crikey I had no idea that vintage Speedmasters were quite such a complicated area. I watched some of the videos but just glazed over after a while as its not an area I'm that into. I simply bought the watch because I liked it and it was a birth year watch.

I really appreciate and am impressed by the knowledge base here and it's clarified things for me. I think I'll probably list it here in the coming days with a link to this thread so people can fully understand what they're looking at and possibly buying.

Thanks again guys and I've worn it tonight and love the way the light reflects on the hesalite.



Cheers
Neil

[PickleB]

"I had no idea that vintage Speedmasters were quite such a complicated area"...can I take it you haven't invested in 566 pages of Moonwatch Only: 60 Years of OMEGA Speedmaster to go with that fine timepiece?

[sjedwardz]

I had a similar experience when I was looking at getting a Speedmaster. I was thinking about birth year then wedding year but it was such a mine field I ended up buying a new one!

At least I knew it’s provenance.


Cheers, Shaun

[murkeywaters]

I had a similar experience when I was looking at getting a Speedmaster. I was thinking about birth year then wedding year but it was such a mine field I ended up buying a new one!

At least I knew it’s provenance.


Cheers, Shaun

To some of us thats the fun finding all the matching parts and numbers if a little nerdy!

[TomGW]

I bought my Transitional just a year or so before prices really began to kick off and just before these were considered to be any more collectible than any other early 145.022. It was listed on WUS by a regular seller who is still very active, so was not ‘stolen’ off somebody who didn’t know any better. It’s a very nice example of an original, correct 145.022-68 and cost me around £900 ($1275USD at the time, IIRC). Over the years I must have had roughly 30 Speedmasters, including a 2998-62, which have ended up with other forum members. If anyone fancies a 50% profit I’d happily buy them all back again.

[watchlovr]

It’s a nice watch fitted with an incorrect dial and possibly the wrong bezel for the movement ref.

^^^^this imo^^^

[TomGW]

^^^^this imo^^^

And back in the day scruffy bezels were frequently replaced; often DON bezels replaced with the following series ‘tall text’, early ‘70s type.

[jpjsavage]

Here are the three I've collected over the years. All of them are in great original condition in my humble opinion.



In date order, the 105.003-64, also known as the 'Ed White':




Next up, from 1967 the 145.012-67:



And finally, the one that started it all, a birth year 'pre-moon' 145.022-69:




All purchased from folk off this fine forum over the last ten years. None of them are going anywhere.

[ollipekka]

Vintage speedmaster ownership seems like a major PITA since you need to be prepared for an unsolicited piece-by-piece deconstruction and valuation of your watch and its parts by random people every time you post a picture.

BTW. here since its valuation thread, all of this is applicable, but the same happens on OF, random reddit posts and IG.

[Wallasey Runner]

Vintage speedmaster ownership seems like a major PITA since you need to be prepared for an unsolicited piece-by-piece deconstruction and valuation of your watch and its parts by random people every time you post a picture.

BTW. here since its valuation thread, all of this is applicable, but the same happens on OF, random reddit posts and IG.

The joys of vintage and the same happens with Rolex, that would look good with a super dome crystal or you need to find a faded fat font bezel insert etc. I guess people are just trying to be helpful in the main although there are a few trolls who like to put the boot in at every opportunity.

[PickleB]

Having just sold a watch to Joe it was a very pleasant experience. No messing around and he seems like a thoroughly decent bloke who knows a good watch then he sees one.

Cheers
Neil

Was that your Speedmaster, please? If it was I, and possibly others, can stop watching the SC for a your "probable" listing (link).

[jneds]

Was that your Speedmaster, please? If it was I, and possibly others, can stop watching the SC for a your "probable" listing (link).

No that was another watch. The Speedmaster might be listed depending on the outcome of a visit from my brother this evening who says he’s “very interested”.

Cheers
Neil

[PickleB]

No that was another watch. The Speedmaster might be listed depending on the outcome of a visit from my brother this evening who says he’s “very interested”.

Cheers
Neil

Many thanks for the update, Neil.