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Thread: Buying a boat.

  1. #1
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    Buying a boat.

    So after a top notch recommendation from TheTigerUk I am now hooked on boating holidays. I have often heard it said that the two best days of boat ownership are the days you buy and sell it. However I am still strongly considering a boat.

    Now the conundrum is that I don't have a spare 200k knocking around to splash on a boat. Nor do I own a house along the Thames or other suitable river to moor it.

    With that in mind I saw le boats ownership scheme, this essential is a time share type ownership model with the buyer financing the boat. The buyer receives a guaranteed return 8% of the boats cost per year and after 8 years they will buy the boat back at 50% of the original purchase price.

    For your purchase you receive roughly 8 weeks of boating time each year. They also suggest that you can finance the purchase price of the boat. All operational costs, maintenance, mooring etc is paid for by leboat.

    Has anyone here bought this timeshare style option for boats. Are interest rates for boat finincing horrendous?


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  2. #2
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    If it "flies, floats or fu**s"- rent it.
    Harsh maybe but true.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

    'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.

  3. #3
    Master Harry Smith's Avatar
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    I don't know who first said it but I always think of the catchphrase: Boat = a hole in the water you throw money into.

  4. #4
    Grand Master hogthrob's Avatar
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    As has been said above, just do holiday rentals. A boat is a depreciating asset, so you're only ever going to lose money in a timeshare-like deal.

  5. #5
    Master Papa Hotel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    If it "flies, floats or fu**s"- rent it.
    Harsh maybe but true.
    Also: The two happiest days in a boat owner's life: the day you buy the boat, and the day you sell the boat.

    I don't own a boat, I don't want to own a boat. Most people I know who own a boat don't really want to own a boat either.

  6. #6
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    As a counterpoint to the nay sayers, I guess it depends on the type of boat you are talking about.

    My daughter bought a 65' canal boat for £55k last August, with a bit of modernisation and refitting going on, she has already been offered £85k. This may be particular to canal boats as she and her partner live on it and it's a relatively cheap way to get your independence.

  7. #7
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    Unless it's a work boat and you are earning off it, it's going to cost you money.

  8. #8
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    I had a boat. It was a great ownership experience. Shared with a mate we used it every nice weekend and had the disposable for repairs and running costs. However, it was a wakeboard boat and we were living our child free late “adolescence”. Life changed a bit and so the boat went after a few summers. I’m not even sure why I’m on a thread about river holiday boats but it brought back some good memories!

    I still get to go boating vicariously these days. Sea and canal trips on friend’s boats. Quality days out. If you’ve got the right company it’s good like any shared activity. Just more expensive than most! You pays your money etc.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickD View Post
    As a counterpoint to the nay sayers, I guess it depends on the type of boat you are talking about.

    My daughter bought a 65' canal boat for £55k last August, with a bit of modernisation and refitting going on, she has already been offered £85k. This may be particular to canal boats as she and her partner live on it and it's a relatively cheap way to get your independence.
    It;s particular to Covid - high demand means all boats have gone up in price. Generally speaking you;re going to lose money on a boat, it's just a question of how much.

  10. #10
    Grand Master AlphaOmega's Avatar
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    I thought boats were ships and subs were boats.

    Never mind.

    The only people who should own them are sailors and those who don't have to worry about money.

    Everyone else should rent.

  11. #11
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    I know quite some people who own boats, most of them in Scandinavia. The only happy boat owners I know are sail boat owners who were brought up in a family tradition of sailing. Everybody else buys and sells within a short time span, losing a lot of money during the experience.
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  12. #12
    Master Anygreg's Avatar
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    I’ve owned 3 boats over the last 30 years. Had some good fun on them all.
    1st one, lots of money spent, used frequently at the start. Then dry docked for painting maintenance. Never went back in the water got sold at a loss.
    2nd Boat, had good fun, used frequently to start, then got left as life got busy. Sat on a mooring costing money every month. Sold at a loss
    3rd Boat, the best one yet. Had it totally refitted retrimmed in light oak and Italian leather hide, wide beamed. Beautiful thing. Sank in the floods, which was nice. Insurance paid out and allowed me to keep it. I Then sold it on and actually made a decent profit.
    So there you have it the only one I made money on sank

    Read into that what you will.

  13. #13
    Grand Master AlphaOmega's Avatar
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    To set expectations, how much is a retrim?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaOmega View Post
    To set expectations, how much is a retrim?
    How big is the boat?
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

    'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.

  15. #15
    Master Anygreg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaOmega View Post
    To set expectations, how much is a retrim?
    Not sure if the question was directed at me or not.
    My last boat was around 15 years ago, we’re talking thousands for the retrim. Leather material costs were pretty high, white and blue hides (nautical theme of course) from Italy, then light oak. Material cost were high as mentioned but the actual labour costs… the saying was think of a number then stick a 0 on it because it’s marine.

  16. #16
    Grand Master AlphaOmega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    How big is the boat?
    Not sure but I'm guessing Greg's is a reasonable size so should give everyone a rough idea.

    I've no idea - I don't spend much time on the water - but I am subscribed to Aquaholic on IG. Everything seems expensive. It reminds me of wedding costs. Edit - Greg has replied.

  17. #17
    Master Anygreg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaOmega View Post
    Not sure but I'm guessing Greg's is a reasonable size so should give everyone a rough idea.

    I've no idea - I don't spend much time on the water - but I am subscribed to Aquaholic on IG. Everything seems expensive. It reminds me of wedding costs. Edit - Greg has replied.
    Also don’t forget to add on the Covid Tax at the minute, that has to be an extra 20% at least

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    I know quite some people who own boats, most of them in Scandinavia. The only happy boat owners I know are sail boat owners who were brought up in a family tradition of sailing. Everybody else buys and sells within a short time span, losing a lot of money during the experience.
    That is true, the secret with the family tradition is that there is then a whole family that are able to sail the boat. Often it's the parents and their adult kids, and that makes it feasible to own a boat as it get enough use and the cost can be split.

    I've also learnt to sail a boat as a kid, but we don't have a family boat. I like sailing a lot and for us it's the best way of taking a family holiday. I've been renting a boat for 1-2 weeks per summer for 10 years now, and usually in the spring I think about getting my own boat. However, they reality is that I simply don't have the time to sail much more than the 1-2 weeks - I like travelling too. I'm also not very handy and not interested in working with the boat. I think I will be renting in the future too. ;)

  19. #19
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    I've just sold my boat and looking for the next.
    It's true, boat stands for Bring Out Another Thousand.

    There are a few boat share schemes up and running now, most have a choice of boat and the majority work like a time share. You book your day or half day in advance, arrive at the marina or dry stack and jump on. You will need at least the RYA Powerboat 2 certificate which is a very easy two day course and a lot of the companies include this in their package. Cost wise, when i looked into it, was a monthly payment equivalent of what it would cost me for a marina berth each month, c£300. Some want a payment up front. I'm talking about coastal locations here.

    Lot's of upsides, new boats and a choice with most companies, no running costs except for fuel. For example the 90hp Honda outboard on my last boat cost around £500 to service, marina fees were £250pm and insurance £300, then we had Sea Start (RAC for the water) £150pa and the various maintenance bills.

    Some downsides, you are restricted to the same patch of water and you could book your day on the water only to find that the weather is bad and you can't go out. With the boats on offer you won't want to be out in a F3-F4 wind, it will be too uncomfortable but that is boating in the UK. This is why we are looking for a bigger boat with a wheel house, with an open boat we were too restricted to when we could get out. My cost per mile over the year was unbelievable!

    I think the boat share route is a good idea. You may do it for a couple of seasons and think that you would like to move on to owning your own boat but if you get bored you can walk away.
    Another option, is to have a trailer boat which you can launch anywhere and keep on the drive. The cheapest way to boat is to have an inflatable with a small outboard. Honwave do a good range.
    Be careful, it's a bit like watches, if you get the bug you are doomed. Having said that, it's probably the best thing we ever did.

  20. #20
    Grand Master AlphaOmega's Avatar
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    Hang on, it costs £500 to service a 90bhp motor?

    I used to run an NA Honda engine that put out 120bhp per litre. Fairly high performance.

    And it was less to service than that.

    That Sir, is a joke.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa Hotel View Post
    Also: The two happiest days in a boat owner's life: the day you buy the boat, and the day you sell the boat.

    I don't own a boat, I don't want to own a boat. Most people I know who own a boat don't really want to own a boat either.
    This all day long.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaOmega View Post
    Hang on, it costs £500 to service a 90bhp motor?

    I used to run an NA Honda engine that put out 120bhp per litre. Fairly high performance.

    And it was less to service than that.

    That Sir, is a joke.
    You aren't wrong. Full service including anodes and impeller- £468. Marina's own service crew admittedly. I could of got it done cheaper but i was just highlighting that everything you do with a boat is expensive.

  23. #23
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    I’ve always had boats … sailing dinghies. Affordable to own and lots of fun.

    Maybe consider a dinghy rather than a keelboat. More social too.




  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riley View Post
    I've just sold my boat and looking for the next.
    It's true, boat stands for Bring Out Another Thousand.

    There are a few boat share schemes up and running now, most have a choice of boat and the majority work like a time share. You book your day or half day in advance, arrive at the marina or dry stack and jump on. You will need at least the RYA Powerboat 2 certificate which is a very easy two day course and a lot of the companies include this in their package. Cost wise, when i looked into it, was a monthly payment equivalent of what it would cost me for a marina berth each month, c£300. Some want a payment up front. I'm talking about coastal locations here.

    Lot's of upsides, new boats and a choice with most companies, no running costs except for fuel. For example the 90hp Honda outboard on my last boat cost around £500 to service, marina fees were £250pm and insurance £300, then we had Sea Start (RAC for the water) £150pa and the various maintenance bills.

    Some downsides, you are restricted to the same patch of water and you could book your day on the water only to find that the weather is bad and you can't go out. With the boats on offer you won't want to be out in a F3-F4 wind, it will be too uncomfortable but that is boating in the UK. This is why we are looking for a bigger boat with a wheel house, with an open boat we were too restricted to when we could get out. My cost per mile over the year was unbelievable!

    I think the boat share route is a good idea. You may do it for a couple of seasons and think that you would like to move on to owning your own boat but if you get bored you can walk away.
    Another option, is to have a trailer boat which you can launch anywhere and keep on the drive. The cheapest way to boat is to have an inflatable with a small outboard. Honwave do a good range.
    Be careful, it's a bit like watches, if you get the bug you are doomed. Having said that, it's probably the best thing we ever did.
    We're looking at a rib boat around 6m and 100hp outboard for coastal runs and kids playing on the back end of her. Costs should be minimal as we have a slipway on the caravan site so hopefully annual servicing costs to only worry about. To add we are running a jet ski at present and it drinks the fuel so guessing an outboard will too so be prepared for big fuel bills :(

  25. #25
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    My first wife chose to live on a houseboat for a decade or so and wandered around all over. Whenever I stayed (we get on fine) it always felt like a lot of compromises for a few advantages, but she seemed to love it and it turned out to be a splendid springboard for the kids. It is perhaps telling that she, and oldest son, now run a business reconditioning and painting canal boats... but live in houses. There's a strong, if slightly scrungy, community and as long as the actual hull is solid you have a choice of spending a lot of money or a lot of time on keeping the damned things going. At the time she had a Lister engine which, to be fair, I found beautifully simple to service and the engine itself never went wrong even if belts snapped, bits dropped off and gaskets gently wept. Beyond that, I personally wouldn't consider anything move complex than a Topper or a kayak.

  26. #26
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LRB255 View Post
    We're looking at a rib boat around 6m and 100hp outboard for coastal runs and kids playing on the back end of her. Costs should be minimal as we have a slipway on the caravan site so hopefully annual servicing costs to only worry about. To add we are running a jet ski at present and it drinks the fuel so guessing an outboard will too so be prepared for big fuel bills :(
    Friend of mine owned a classy 1980's boat with a big Volvo V8 engine. Really powerful, but it easily consumed over a hundred pounds worth of fuel per hour.
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    Friend of mine owned a classy 1980's boat with a big Volvo V8 engine. Really powerful, but it easily consumed over a hundred pounds worth of fuel per hour.
    Can well believe that. The jet ski is an 1800cc non turbo engine and can do 70 litres in a couple of hours thrashing about. Servicing, insurance costs don’t seem to bad but didn’t envisage using sooooooo much fuel though :)

  28. #28
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LRB255 View Post
    Can well believe that. The jet ski is an 1800cc non turbo engine and can do 70 litres in a couple of hours thrashing about. Servicing, insurance costs don’t seem to bad but didn’t envisage using sooooooo much fuel though :)
    1800cc? I remember the days when a big jet ski was 550cc!

  29. #29
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LRB255 View Post
    Can well believe that. The jet ski is an 1800cc non turbo engine and can do 70 litres in a couple of hours thrashing about. Servicing, insurance costs don’t seem to bad but didn’t envisage using sooooooo much fuel though :)
    Is that a ski or a bike?
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

    'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.

  30. #30
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    It’s a ski, 3 seater more orientated to cruising than speed

    There’s a guy on the site who has a Seadoo 300hp, 0-60 in 3.6sec. Mental and you can imagine how much fuel that sups

  31. #31
    Master petethegeek's Avatar
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    A viable half way house between sole ownership and commercial timeshare perhaps worth looking into is group ownership. In the days when I was an active PPL holder I have part 'owned' three or four light airplanes. The operation of the schemes varied in the detail, but each provided most of the benefits associated with ownership at considerably lower cost and less personal hassle.

    Given the similarities between the two activities in terms of expense and usage, I would imagine it shouldn't be too difficult to find suitable opportunities to join one. It goes without saying however that the maxim 'buy the members' is crucial to successful enjoyment.

  32. #32
    Grand Master AlphaOmega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by petethegeek View Post
    It goes without saying however that the maxim 'buy the members' is crucial to successful enjoyment.
    *reflects thoughtfully on TZ membership*

  33. #33
    I have always fancied a nice boat, but live nowhere near the sea normally. On my house on Skye I have an Avon 4.5m RIB that is fun for local rides and fishing.

    I have a Honda outboard motor and a smaller back up that has never seen use. Servicing costs are minimal because I don't bother. I give it a clean and have changed the oil, but that's it. Only thing gone wrong in 7 years has been electrics, but that was cheap to fix.

  34. #34
    Grand Master AlphaOmega's Avatar
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    I would have thought servicing was more important than for a car.

    One of the few times I have been genuinely concerned on the water was when we travelled in a small craft between some Greek islands and the engine died. Phones had no reception, there were large ships in the vicinity and a storm was coming in. That was a relaxing holiday.

  35. #35
    B.O.A.T. (Break out another thousand)🙂
    Had several. Always more expense than you think but some hold their value quite well such as Cornish shrimper and Ribs..
    Moorings can be difficult and expensive to secure. I was lucky to have a local authority river mooring for £140 a year but I hear the waiting list is now 6+ years.

  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Raffe View Post
    Friend of mine owned a classy 1980's boat with a big Volvo V8 engine. Really powerful, but it easily consumed over a hundred pounds worth of fuel per hour.
    That's a mere bagatelle of fuel consumption, check this out (digital readout is litres/hour per engine)...


    Tickover:



    10 knots:




    35 knots:




    Thankfully, someone else was paying for the fuel!

    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by LRB255 View Post
    We're looking at a rib boat around 6m and 100hp outboard for coastal runs and kids playing on the back end of her. Costs should be minimal as we have a slipway on the caravan site so hopefully annual servicing costs to only worry about. To add we are running a jet ski at present and it drinks the fuel so guessing an outboard will too so be prepared for big fuel bills :(
    My 90hp would go all day on 40L of fuel. Obviously not running all day but stop start with a bit of towing.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    That's a mere bagatelle of fuel consumption, check this out (digital readout is litres/hour per engine)...


    Tickover:


    Thankfully, someone else was paying for the fuel!

    R
    There are times when I think you have the best job EVER!.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

    'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.

  39. #39
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    Thanks for all the replies. The part ownership might be a good idea. Looking at just renting a week on the Thames is around £2-3k depending on the time of year. So if I could get in on a scheme that would give me 2-3 weeks for around £3-4k per year It would be worth it for me.

    Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

  40. #40
    For occasional use the most enjoyable boat is someone else's.
    I have been at both ends of that experience.

  41. #41
    Grand Master AlphaOmega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphy View Post
    35 knots:

    R
    That's roughly a car tank of fuel every 15 minutes.

  42. #42
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaOmega View Post
    That's roughly a car tank of fuel every 15 minutes.
    It would take a very large car tank for that (517ltr/h = 129ltr in 15 minutes).

    Biggest car tank I ever had was close to 100ltr (Audi Q7), but 60-70ltr much more typical.
    Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.

  43. #43
    Grand Master AlphaOmega's Avatar
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    Good point Raffe.

    It's a tank for each engine every 15 mins.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riley View Post
    My 90hp would go all day on 40L of fuel. Obviously not running all day but stop start with a bit of towing.
    That would be similar to what we would want to do. Just been down the bay (Trearddur) on low tide and some lovely boats & ribs moored in the coves. Think they charge around £20 per launch off the slipway, not sure on mooring costs

  45. #45
    Grand Master Neil.C's Avatar
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    Get the same effect by standing in the shower whilst tearing up £50 notes!
    Cheers,
    Neil.

    My Speedmaster website:

    http://www.freewebs.com/neil271052

  46. #46
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    I had a yacht moored in the Clyde estuary which eventually had to be treated for osmosis (among other things)

    In that case it was like standing in a cold shower tearing up £100 notes

  47. #47
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Used to sail out of Kip Marina, nice sailing ground unfortunately it was almost a 5 hour drive to get there from Sheffield...
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

    'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.

  48. #48
    Grand Master snowman's Avatar
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    Did I miss what kind of 'boat' the OP is considering?

    I've never owned a boat, but I do know a few who've part-owned yachts or owned RHIBs, all of them describe them as 'not really worth the cost' and 'better to rent'.

    M
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  49. #49
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    My parents have a yacht in Chichester harbour. along with a few day and weekend trips during the summer months they also just did a month long sail along the south coast and back. Moorings and other running costs didn’t seem that expensive. If you factor in that you’re saving on hotel accommodation the overall costs of ownership are very reasonable.


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  50. #50
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    I'm looking for a river cruiser. The one I was looking at was the Delphia 1150. Have also looked at joining my local sailing club in the interim. £300 for the whole family and then unlimited dinghy rental for free. Seems pretty good value in the interim.

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