Reply With QuoteFrom random jewelers that give that generic statement, I take it to mean 'Had the back off, had a look, checked the beat rate and error, maybe regulated it and put the back back on'.
I enquired about a JLC, with an online dealer, having been after one for a while. I asked about service history and was told it was recently "serviced by our in house watchmaker".
Is a JLC "easier" for a generalist watch maker to service than, say, a Rolex?
It's put me off, sadly. Just wondered whether that's me just being over cautious. Nothing to suggest the retailer is anything other than above board, etc., but it seemed an odd thing to do (unless the watch had "issues" which needed addressing).
From random jewelers that give that generic statement, I take it to mean 'Had the back off, had a look, checked the beat rate and error, maybe regulated it and put the back back on'.
Thanks. That's what I feared!Originally Posted by hughtrimble
Do you think you'd get less care with independent servicing or in house watchmakers than you would if it had been back to Richemont?
Err, yes, potentially. And I know so little about what goes on inside a mechanical watch, that I don't know whether the world's finest "generalist" watchmaker would make a better or worse job of servicing a JLC than a JLC "drone" who has never touched another make but could service a JLC with his/her eyes shut.
That's why I was interested in others' opinions.
Nothing wrong with independent service if done correctly, sadly I fear that in this case it’s just a check over as if parts required they would need to be a credited indi.
Ask them exactly what the service entailed? Anything less than a full strip down, replacement of mainspring and gaskets/seals as a minimum would have me doubting their credentials.
who is the seller/jewellers?
Cheers,
Ben
..... for I have become the Jedi of flippers
" an extravagance is anything you buy that is of no earthly use to your wife "
This is a good point, and I don't want my response to be taken to be besmirching indies. What I meant was the lack of specificity from the dealer makes me cautious. If they specified 'It's been to XY for servicing, guarantee for 1 year' I'd have more confidence, but the ubiquitous 'Our in house watchmaker has serviced it' makes me assume the worst as that could well be the dealer themselves with a timegrapher and a case back tool.
I suppose the crucial detail needed from the OP is which dealer is it? Is it a place well known for dealing in second hand JLCs (in which case their in house servicing could well be top notch) or someone who just so happens to have got a JLC in a trade and usually doesn't deal in them?
Sounds like very good advice!
I won’t reveal the dealer in the circs.. Not one I’d heard of, for what that’s worth, but clearly an established business. As I said, nothing to say that they aren’t beyond reproach but answers to your questions should give me a good steer!
Speaking as one who’s ‘skilled in the art’, albeit not professionally trained, here’s how I see it:
Any competent watchie could service a JLC and do just as good a job as the service centre provided the watch didn’t have problems, if it simply needs stripping, cleaning and rebuilding with no parts required it’s straightforward. The problems come when parts are showing signs of wear or damage from previous ham- fisted monkeys, they ought to be replaced but getting hold of them is nigh- on impossible because supply is restricted to the chosen few.
Reputable dealers will have a watchie who can do work for them to a high standard, they won’t trust work to a monkey. If the dealer has let his friendly repairer go through the watch and everyone’s happy ( no faults or problems) the watch should be OK. It’s not quite as good as a recent full service from JLC but if the watch had no issues other than needing cleaning/ oiling that shouldn’t matter.
The less reputable dealers will have a watchie contact who’s happy to do the bare minimum to get the watch saleable but no more, they don’t want to pay for a full stripdown/ service because it eats into their profits. Stripping and rebuilding a mechanical watch is a 3-5 hr job, there’s a significant cost to the work, plus overheads, so its easy to see how the cost can mount up. There are ways and means to cut corners to get a watch running reasonably OK to a point where the owner won’t complain, but that’s not the same as doing a thorough job and the performance is likely to deteriorate after a year or so......when the watch is out of warranty!
Thanks. More very useful thoughts.
Warranty is something that I need to double check. Last time I looked at the JLC service cost, it was about £750 from memory. Given the reasonable price of pre-owned JLC compared to Rolex, that’s a pretty large % of cost which makes a “proper” service more valuable. If that makes sense.
If the Jewellers is someone like Chisholm Hunter then I'd expect their in-house watchmaker service to basically consist of the words "Yeah, it's a watch innit"
I speak from experience unfortunately.
And that, in a nutshell, is my fear!!
A lot also depends on the complexity of the watch in question. A simple three hander would be fine. An AMVOX alarm or chronograph, no. “Serviced by our in house watchmaker” holds little value in my book in general. It usually means they opened it up to check that it is generally functioning! Plus unlikely they will have JLC parts to do anything more involved with the watch.
I would factor in a JLC service into your buying costs.
BW,
Chi Kai
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I recently bought a iwc 3740 with jlc 631 movement.What swung it for me was a receipt from iwc showing full strip down service ,new dial/ hands,polish case.With out this work I would not have bought the watch.
You might not get less care, but you might not get genuine parts or a good refinish either (if desired). A lot of JLC output is quite bespoke and movements in many cases in house. My Reverso Duo on the bench is shown below, good luck with finding these bits at Gleave or Cousins:
Last edited by Padders; 12th August 2021 at 21:54.
Thanks. That was my concern.
I bought a breitling chronomat years ago from a well respected indi close to me who supposedly has their in house watchmaker inspect all watches pre sale It went back to them 3 times due to time keeping issues turned out it had to go back to breitling for a full service
It may depend on how large they are. I know of one large used watch site who have their own dedicated, full time watchmaker because they turn over so many high end watches. They have a lot of rich clients who also service their purchases through them. They are not only online and have a couple of physical stores so getting clients back for services enables them to sell more watches.
I guess it still doesn’t mean they would strip down a watch if they open it up and it looks “ok” to them.
There are excellent independant watch makers just as there are excellent independant car mechanics.
In some cases you would get a more sympathetic service from an independant than a manufacturer.
Rolex treatment of vintage watches for instance, you don't necesarly want hands etc replaced, (although I understand this has improved) it is much easier to have a proper conversation with an independant than RSC.
I work for a company that does "in house" servicing and customisation. The service centre takes over a floor of the building. It used to occupy a separate premises.
Has 2 full time accredited watchmakers that have worked for the big brands.
I know that if a watch comes in that's older with no history then its fully serviced and checked because good customer service isn't returns with faulty watches and disappointed customers 2 months after purchase. That doesn't make people come back.
Parts aren't usually an issue as there's a big independent network and oem parts trade outside of cousins et al that links dealers from all over the place.
Personally, I trust them with my watches if I need anything done.
That said, I can't speak for anywhere else that purports to do 'in house servicing', particularly not jewellers who IME tend to outsource to local independent watchmakers rather than having a dedicated service centre.
In the meantime, plenty of concerns about JLCs aftercare courtesy of Richemont across most forums including damage to watches and multiple returns for issues not fixed. The latest richemont related servicing debacle from here involved a serviced Panerai being returned with its case back not screwed in, at all, let alone properly.
I don't trust Richemont to service a banana as they're well known for cock ups across their brands.
Far less issues with manufacturer servicing that isn't part of their umbrella imo.
Putting aside your legitimate concerns over the reliably of the Kentish Town Richemont service facility for a moment, I refer the honourable lady to my post above where I suggested that parts for many models are not to be found at Cousins or Gleave. What then for the independent option?
Last edited by Padders; 13th August 2021 at 14:44.
I refer you to the fifth line in my post.
Indeed, my apologies, I read it wrong the first time! I still think your confidence in the ability for an Indy to get specialist parts for some of the higher end Richemont brands is misplaced. These are not using ETA modified off the shelf stuff with a bespoke rotor engraving (like many Cartier, IWC or Tag Heuer are). Try getting your ALS, JLC, MB-Minerva, Piaget or VC sorted when there is a part that actually needs changing as opposed to just lubricaton or fettling and I see trouble ahead.
Anyhoo your point about RIS being occasionally unreliable it perfectly valid so I will let it drop!
Last edited by Padders; 13th August 2021 at 17:00.
Unless they are accredited JlC repairers with a parts account, factor in a service cost into your purchase.
The nonsense above about OEM parts on the grey market means they will skimp and save wherever they can to avoid having to source parts. It may be cheaper and it may last the warranty period, sure, but it's not the same as an accredited repairer following manufacturer guidelines.
Parts will always need replacing, such as gaskets and at the very least a mainspring.
It wasn't a particularly Richemont specific comment apart from noting their occasionally well publicised lack of QC.
I just don't agree that in house automatically means lack of intervention or servicing.
If the competence of independents is alarming either go to the brand or go to Watchfinder as they're Richemont accredited and likely to have gone over every piece with a fine tooth comb for peace of mind because the big brands definitely wouldn't skimp on caring for used pieces they're selling.
Personally, having just bought Richemont, I'll use them for the next 8 years while it's warrantied and then absolutely not as I've had 3 duff experiences (all with Panerai mind nothing from JLC) but my faith in that particular mothership is zero.
Mabe OP should just buy a Rolex because they're just less of a pain and there's less arguing about them ;)
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