Reply With QuoteFor watches offered for sale here - many people will be buying only having seen them, not worn them (unless they have tried on in a dealers, sucked their teeth and said "I'll have a think about it".........
(Gone home and looked for an S/H one).
Hi All
Without wanting to create controversy, I have a general question for comment.
Obviously some people simply trade watches for profit, either full time or part time & there is nothing wrong with that of course.
However I see many watches for sale, maybe only only purchased a week or two previously which are then listed for sale, both in SC or elsewhere. Various reasons are given such as not comfortable, too big, too small, couldn't gel with it, or whatever. Am I the only one who is cynical - particularly with new watches - did these people not try them on before buying? Can they not return them to the AD or vendor for a refund? Why not persist with it for a while longer to see if the watch grows on you? All seem generally offered at a small discount to retail.
Genuine question, what is going on here? Buying at a discount & then hoping to flip for a profit is not a crime, but why all the excuses to justify the sale if profit is not the motive?
For watches offered for sale here - many people will be buying only having seen them, not worn them (unless they have tried on in a dealers, sucked their teeth and said "I'll have a think about it".........
(Gone home and looked for an S/H one).
Mixture of reasons I think.
Why sell so soon? Buyers remorse, seen something better, using the purchase to gain favour with the dealer for hard to acquire pieces (usually Rolex sports models).
Why sell on the forum? Some people genuinely got a bargain and want to pass it onto the community rather than return to the dealer. Others can't return because they've worn the watch/resized the bracelet/bent the strap etc. I'd imagine most of the quickly flipped watches below RRP have been acquired with a decent discount and the seller wont be throwing hundreds of pounds away within the space of a week or so.
And then there will obviously be the Del Boy's looking to make a quick buck who bought it for a bigger discount from RRP than they are subsequently selling for.
Also, many are bought online from PSAs, usually at a discount. Having bought it, it’s often not what the buyer expected so it’s passed on in here to someone who wants to try one.
A watch may often pass through many hands until someone keeps it. The two Seikos I’ve bought recently were both from H Samuel at 50% of retail and I’d not been interested at the time but picked them up on SC later.
Some folk also have a cash back credit card so can save a little bit more but that’s not going to be enough to make a living from!
I’ve bought a few of Eddie’s 36mm watches from SC and put them straight onto SC as they’re just too small for me. I know they are but I keep trying because most of his best watches are 36mm.
Last edited by Dave+63; 12th August 2021 at 12:37.
I don't think they're necessarily "excuses" particularly if the background of the watch is known as its been on SC already. Pretty transparent series of ownership and usually no profiting involved.
Sometimes people buy from dealers or online, get the watch, wear it for a while and decide its not for them so stick it on SC.
I think my most recent fastest turnaround was a week with an entry level radiomir. Confirmed my suspicions that I'm a hound for Panerai even though its not sensible so flipped it a few days later to put the funds into an "ideal" model. Nothing particularly shady about it.
I think when you get into watches to the extent that many of us are, there are always new shiny things we "must" try particularly with the buzz and influence of some watches discussed on the forum. Some end up staying for a long time, others the idea outperforms the reality so out the door they go. Ive never met a pickier bunch than watch nerds so whereas some "less invested" buyers will identify something on a watch that doesn't quite fit their requirements they work on the "I've bought it so ill live with it as I like everything else on the watch" mindset.. not so with tzers.
*the above excludes the sale of new Rolex.
Last edited by verv; 12th August 2021 at 12:50.
With a new from the retailer watch, there are a couple of reasons I have experienced.
1) You just don't like it as much as you thought you would, but it's a hassle to return it - I've bought watches from retailers outside the UK in the past - Returning those would be a hassle, especially in the case of it 'just not gelling with it'.
2) Overly enthusiastic buying - I've been guilty of this in the past, especially during lockdown - Buying more watches than I wanted/needed, sometimes a number in a short while and it's easier to take a small hit passing the watch onto someone who will enjoy it than try and negotiate a return, especially to a remote retailer.
There's also, as mentioned, the case where someone got a great deal and is happy to pass that good fortune onto someone else on the forum, rather than simply get their money back.
I rarely buy watches in a shop, most have been online, so I'm taking a bit of punt each time, but I've only been bitten once or twice (a brown dialed watch I thought was grey and a watch with horrible faux patina lume that I just didn't recognise in the photos - Both were my errors). Luckily I've been pretty successful in identifying what will work remotely.
Obviously, with a used buy from SC, you can't really ask for a return if you just don't like a watch, so the 'done thing' is to offer it back on SC (which is where "I'm looking for what it owes me" comes in - If all you've REALLY done is buy it, take a look and decide it's not for you, selling on at the same price seems fair enough), but I suspect that's a different matter than the OP was addressing.
M
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
All above are good reasons. For online sales there is a right to return but not so in a bricks and mortar store. This being the case there are people for whom the loss of couple hundred £ is not significant for them and they just want to move on and try something else.
There are also those who buy watches to gain a "track record" with a dealer in order to obtain harder-to-get items and for whoim the loss is worth it for this gain....
Last edited by Scepticalist; 12th August 2021 at 13:10.
Thanks for all of the replies.
I just wanted to understand better. I have an Omega SMP that I bought on SC 10 years ago, and which I will probably never part with. I don't really post very often at all, but I 'drop in' to TZ now and again to look at posts & also SC & am considering adding another 2 or 3 watches to the Omega to create a small collection - I just wanted to understand the selling psyche & am quite pleased that perhaps my cynicism might have been misplaced.
Many watches that appear on SC shortly after purchase or having been never worn at all are offered at a discount over RRP, or what the seller originally paid, so I don't think there is anything to be cynical about in those cases. Of course, not true all the time.
Many watches that appear on SC shortly after purchase or having been never worn at all are offered at a discount over RRP, or what the seller originally paid, so I don't think there is anything to be cynical about in those cases. As has been said already, watches bought online may not be what the buyer expected. I feel that in general members would rather their watches remain in the hands of members of the forum as opposed to returning to an AD. Of course, not true all the time.
Last edited by Spesh; 12th August 2021 at 13:32.
There will also be some that are building a buying history with certain stores in order to better their chances of getting the harder to acquire pieces.
Doing that isn't without risk though - probably a risk I wouldn't be willing to take with the code of selling on here. I wouldn't trust that my buyer wears it for a day or two then decides they want to send it back to me for a refund. Much easier just to take it back to the store under your consumer rights/store policy than risk ending up with a watch that has been worn that you can no longer take back.Originally Posted by Spesh
I would expect the main reason is to keep the purchase history with the AD, more history the better to get the in-demand watches.
Lots of different reasons already mentioned which are very valid, but I'll just add that often it's perceived as a negative thing if someone sells a watch after a short period, which I don't think is necessarily true.
Personally I've sold most of the watches I've bought as I only keep a small collection. Usually they're relatively inexpensive (sub £1,000) and by buying smart I find selling them on tends to result in a small loss or sometimes I break even. Personally I look at a small loss on a watch I've had for a couple of weeks/months like a rental fee, quite happy to spend a little to have experienced the watch for that time before passing it on to a new owner who also gets a good deal out of it.
I agree and I probably wouldn't either because even though I joined about 5 years ago I have been more of a lurker than a poster, so have not built up relationships with other members. However between the members that have a long standing relationships I don't think there would be too much risk involved.
I have bought numerous watches without ever having seen them in the flesh first.
Most have stayed with me as I do a lot of research in any watch before buying, but two in the last year (different colour variants of the same watch) just didn’t fit the bill on arrival.
They were both bought at the same time on eBay and listed for sale of the same platform shortly after arrival. Both sold for a small profit, though that was never my intention as I was simply looking to make most, if not all, of my money back.
Flipping (sale following swiftly after purchase) is endemic amongst watch entusiasts, I have found (I certainly have it).
Falling out of love can happen fast- sometimes even before the damn thing arrives! Or something even more tempting pops up on SC, and sacrifices have to be made!
I've never sold something before I've got it, but sometimes within a couple of days.
Profit? Very rare indeed! Loss is more usual- you do see watches being passed on via SC gradually going DOWN in value...
As I see it, for some WIS controls them (uncontrollable flipperitis), for others they control WIS - and some are able to make it work to their financial advantage as well as it being a hobby / interest (including those carefully managing dealer relationships, and indeed the select few using the SC as their personal hareem of buyers willing to snap up any piece they throw their way from their select group or ADs). As long as those involved are happy and not damaged as a result, then no harm done in my view. I for one appreciate honesty and transparency, as well as doing to others as you would have them do to you (masochistic and other such tendencies aside).
You also see them going up in value at times.
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I am going through this very issue at the moment. Just bought something on eBay. Once it arrived, I thought maybe it’s not a keeper. Still unsure now. Might be a rapid catch and release. Nothing sinister here, just a victim of my own whims!
OP: maybe look at other fora than SC. Get to know the people here and you will understand the reason why people sell / buy watches as they do. All the best. Martyn
Personally - I have worked through a (high) turn over of watches with numerous brands. Almost all sold at loss.
Last edited by MartynJC (UK); 12th August 2021 at 16:00.
“ Ford... you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.” HHGTTG
Fair point. If someone is simply profiteering then they should at least have the cajones to just say so.
I've had a few instances of buyers remorse
Nothing sinister surrounding my watch sales not long after purchase
Bought a Panerai Luminor in haste. Chose the wrong reference
Didn't bond with it, so sold it at a huge loss.
Bought a Pelagos. Again chose the wrong colour.
Those two times I should have slept on it, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.
In the end it's a hobby. I'm mortgage free so have written off the loss as a learning experience which I dont want to repeat.
Last edited by Mysqueek; 12th August 2021 at 22:07.
I'm guilty of this. I sometimes buy a watch and then a bit later sell it. Life is too short to spend with something you are not 100% happy with.
The main reason is online shopping for me. I don't go to stores physically, because they lack availability. Some stores only order the watch after you have paid for it. Some of the older rare watches are impossible try on due to lack of availability. Maybe things are different if you live in the big world in the best watch cities such as Tokyo, London, Hong Kong, New York or Singapore.
It is also very hard to make money on non-rolex aside from few particular models. Same with vintage, unless you make a barn find with something super rare and desirable.
At the lower end of the price range, there are lots of micro brands - which often sell out quite quickly due to low production runs and/or they are ‘the flavour of the month’ - and without seeing the watch in the metal it’s very difficult to gauge the size, quality and fit. It’s relatively easy to keep the watch for a few weeks, try a few straps, decide it isn’t for you - then sell onto another member with very little loss (and if the watch is no longer available new, it’s nice to be able to offer it to fellow wis). Of course there might be wealthy individuals buying and selling datejusts so their AD opens the golden gates for a Sub or GMT, but I can’t say I’ve noticed that happening?
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Martyn is wise
I rarely sell, but I did flip one watch recently within days of arrival, as it didn’t meet my expectations. Is it was a microbrand, and there was no way of evaluating it before purchase.
D
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On at least two occasions that spring to mind with watches ordered from microbrands, I’ve decided to flip the watch as soon as I’ve opened the box after delivery. Not exactly a profitable way of operating.
Taking it a bit off rails but that’s often my reservation with microbrands. Overseas shipping so returns are difficult, customs duties and no guarantee I’ll like it. Add to that the limited production numbers and lack of time to consider purchases (for the more popular ones) makes them unappealing. It takes a leap of faith and I worry about taking a bath on them. I’d rather buy used to at least reduce the losses but they’re not exactly abundant.
The recent unimatic x hodinkee colab springs to mind. Seems like a couple of the buyers here were disappointed. I’m sure the hodinkee name means they’ll hold value but the whole thing seems like a hassle to me.
I have a less of a problem with selling a watch soon after getting it as there can be a number of factors but I do get amused by the behaviour of talking up a watch in WT and then putting it on a SC in couple of days
Ha ha I’ve noticed this a few times too :-)
The funny ones are the stories that go with the sale - just sell the watch without the waffle to go alongside it as nearly always someone calls it out.
I've just started reducing my collection and I find the whole process of selling a complete ball ache. Once I get down to a number that Im happy with I don't intend to sell any more.
Returning an online purchase often isn't an option if you've removed the stickers/tags, and sized it, which of course you need to do to properly wear the watch and decide if you like it.
FOMO Fear Of Missing Out. Especially in this age of seeing a limited edition watch, reading about it quickly on instagram or wherever and not weighing up whether it's a good fit for your collection. Pretty sure I've been guilty of this and clicked too quickly without sleeping on it.
It’s not all about money, far from it, life is short and if it’s something you are passionate about, (and for most it is) the sooner you cut your losses and move on, the better I say.
Be brave, accept a situation for what it is and don’t beat yourself up over what didn’t work out.
Speaking entirely from my perspective, I don’t suffer a loss, more enjoy someone else’s chance of enjoying a good watch at a good price. I feel it’s like passing the favour forward. If you enjoy the community and benefit from a good purchase, it is both fair and fitting to do the same.
Never underestimate how enjoyable it is to be kind to someone else. I find most people here are actually very nice.
:)
Bought earlier today/yesterday/the day before…..stickers still in place,watch not worn….
These are not being sold on or flipped for the benefit of forum members. These are being purchased for other reasons,such as keeping in with the AD,and then being sold cause they were never really wanted in the first place. This is not ‘spirit of the forum’ it is self serving.
Otherwise it is not uncommon for someone to buy a pre owned watch from the forum or EBay or whatever and then find that they don’t bond with it or it isn’t quite what they thought it was and then sell it a few days after receiving it.
Yep.
Cheers,
Neil.
That’s how I interpret it. It’s very different to a watch that gets flipped a few times until it finds the person who bonds with it.
Ross
Possibly but people are still getting either a bit of cash off or a watch they may not be able to get easily. This is not new its been going on for years its just it seems that one or two have suddenly become targets on the forum. It was pretty regular you would see certain brands "Just bought today didnt bond with it" up for sale and its pretty obvious its either keeping in with a dealer or as another thread suggests someone getting a healthy store discount from working at a dealers.
Considering the amount of "Stand up guys, top forum members" Who have later been found out to have multiple ID's and half a dozen ebay accounts and selling on behalf of dealers or business they are involved in I cant really get too worked up over this kind of thing.
I've done it quite a few times over the years. Reason? Want to try a watch. Do i then like it? Yes / No / maybe, and depending on which it is back on SC it goes. Nothing sinister just a way of trying things and then selling if its not for me.
I've done it recently, bought a new watch online, wore it a few times then sold at a loss due to another watch I'd been after for a while coming up for sale at a reasonable price. Had to sell one to fund the other. Not always an alternative motive, just how this mad hobby works for a lot of people.
Flipping is flipping. I rarely buy new watches, most are used bought on e-bay or SC that have been flipped if I don’t like them after they arrive. Not talking big bucks here, hundreds rather than thousands. If you are buying a watch based on a few pictures and someone else’s description there is a possibility that it won’t be for you for whatever reason, so it gets flipped. It’s not really an issue and losing relatively small amounts of cash is no big deal for me, call it a rental charge if you don’t like losing money.
I have made an effort to cut out the flipping this year and have been more focused of late and don’t own anything that I would want to sell at present. I’m sure this thread is aimed more at new watch buyers.
Last edited by Wallasey Runner; 16th August 2021 at 21:02.
Didn't get all the stress with this either to be honest. Way I see it, if someone on the forum wants the watch and gets a good price as a result of whatever dealing is going on in the background by other members, why is that a bad thing? Seems a good news story for the buyer and the seller, and makes sod all difference to anyone else.
I think some people are overthinking the conspiracy theories here, to be honest.
In my case I’ve bought 60 watches since I joined this forum - almost without exception having never tried them on beforehand. It’s inevitable that a few of those are going to be a mistake, and when that has been the case I’ve sold them on through SC reasonably promptly. No ulterior motive, just the nature of this hobby.
Some years ago now a forum member advertised a Breitling Avenger Seawolf on SC. It was less than two weeks old, completely as new and offered at an unbelievably generous discount. So good in fact that I was a little suspicious of it and asked the seller what was wrong with it! His response was that he got an incredibly good deal on it using vouchers & a heavy discount at Goldsmiths, realised as soon as he put it on that it wasn’t for him and wanted to pass on his good fortune to another member. I bought it, have never regretted it and it’s still with me. To me that embodies the very best of this forum.
Simon
This!
And it's still a great place to be......
well said...
If you buy a used car - we check HPI - to look for Outstanding Finance (and for a car - other things like insurance write-off etc)
Just wondering how that works with a watch, if it's bought on finance - who really owns it?
This may have been asked before?
Cheers
Mark
Its really in the title
Hire purchase the goods are still legally owned by the finance company until the finance is settled then title passes to the customer
If the buyer defaults the finance company repose the goods financed then sue the buyer for the balance
Watches are just bought on finance
There is no tie on the goods to the finance company its a personal loan so goods owned by the buyer from day one
If he defaults the finance company sues the buyer and does not repose the goods
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So you can buy a watch on Zero Finance - sell it for what you paid and get an interest free loan?
Sounds too good to be true? -
I guess if there is no risk to the new buyer its fine - but from what I read above an HP agreement could result in the watch being repossessed?
Watches are very rarely HP. In fact I've never seen that. It's usually just straight finance - they can't come after the watch.
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