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Thread: Electric cars-got to be a viable option now?

  1. #201
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    Just looking on autotrader for electric cars and browsing the MG5 which seemed a very good price at under 21k, but there is a catch. That price is only available to public sector workers though. Surely thatís discrimination isnít it?

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    Surely thatís discrimination isnít it?
    Theoretically, yes.

    But, they can do what they like unless it is discriminating on age, race, sex, disability etc.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    Just looking on autotrader for electric cars and browsing the MG5 which seemed a very good price at under 21k, but there is a catch. That price is only available to public sector workers though. Surely thatís discrimination isnít it?
    Plenty of discounts for NHS workers around, esp. during this pandemic.

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by noTAGlove View Post
    Theoretically, yes.

    But, they can do what they like unless it is discriminating on age, race, sex, disability etc.
    Would probably come under "treating customers fairly" with the FCA.

  5. #205
    Having had a browse at EV following the discussions in this thread, I thought Iíd just see how much it would be to be able to purchase one. Started to look into them and the only one modelís I really liked the look of is the Hyundai Ionia 5 and maybe the Tesla Y.

    Hyundai Ionia 5 in the range I like is £48k.
    Tesla Y out next year expected to be around £45k for the base model.

    Thereís no way I can afford those numbers so for me Iím with the other 80% of the UK who just think they are too expensive.
    https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...expensive.html

    If they drop the prices or the lease market starts doing some really good deals then Iíll look at it again, my lease deal is due to finish in 10 months, got a feeling it wonít be before thenÖ

  6. #206
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    If you canít afford a £50k car, why look at £50k cars and say that they are too expensive?

    You wouldnít look at a £50k ICE which you canít afford and say all ICE cars are too expensive.

    Granted there are far fewer EVs than ICE to choose from but prices start at a little over £20k

    Itís also worth remembering (particularly with lease or PCP) that itís not just the monthly cost of the lease to account for; a £500/month EV is likely to work out cheaper than a £400/month ICE when everything is taken into consideration.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    If you canít afford a £50k car, why look at £50k cars and say that they are too expensive?

    You wouldnít look at a £50k ICE which you canít afford and say all ICE cars are too expensive.

    Granted there are far fewer EVs than ICE to choose from but prices start at a little over £20k

    Itís also worth remembering (particularly with lease or PCP) that itís not just the monthly cost of the lease to account for; a £500/month EV is likely to work out cheaper than a £400/month ICE when everything is taken into consideration.
    See thatís the thing, a nice SUV ICE I could probably look around £30-£35k as thereís so much more choice, hence again the reason that until they come down in price they are impractical for the majority including me.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    If you canít afford a £50k car, why look at £50k cars and say that they are too expensive?

    You wouldnít look at a £50k ICE which you canít afford and say all ICE cars are too expensive.

    Granted there are far fewer EVs than ICE to choose from but prices start at a little over £20k

    Itís also worth remembering (particularly with lease or PCP) that itís not just the monthly cost of the lease to account for; a £500/month EV is likely to work out cheaper than a £400/month ICE when everything is taken into consideration.
    The costs savings are a no brainier. For me to replace like for like when I change next year ( a diesel LR for another diesel LR ) Iíd be looking at 40k+ for a similar car which would work out well in excess of my current lease. I seem to remember my current car was £36k.
    The payment on the EV car Iím going for will be cheaper than a new like for like diesel anyway....thatís before we start talking about fuel / electric costs.
    Most people are dismissing them on a few factors but I think fail to think about the longer term cost implications not only to their pocket but their immediate environment.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martylaa View Post
    See thatís the thing, a nice SUV ICE I could probably look around £30-£35k as thereís so much more choice, hence again the reason that until they come down in price they are impractical for the majority including me.
    You could buy a Skoda Enyaq EV for under £35k. Most of the 60kwhr Enyaq models are below £35k rrp in order to benefit from the £2,500 government grant so less than £32,500.

    My daughter has an MG ZS EV which cost her £22k new.
    Both are nice SUVs

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    The costs savings are a no brainier. For me to replace like for like when I change next year ( a diesel LR for another diesel LR ) Iíd be looking at 40k+ for a similar car which would work out well in excess of my current lease. I seem to remember my current car was £36k.
    The payment on the EV car Iím going for will be cheaper than a new like for like diesel anyway....thatís before we start talking about fuel / electric costs.
    Most people are dismissing them on a few factors but I think fail to think about the longer term cost implications not only to their pocket but their immediate environment.
    Itís clear that everyone here who wonít buy an EV for whatever spurious reason hasnít actually really looked into EV ownership.

    Those that have, or actually own one, only have positive things to say about them.

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    You could buy a Skoda Enyaq EV for under £35k. Most of the 60kwhr Enyaq models are below £35k rrp in order to benefit from the £2,500 government grant so less than £32,500.

    My daughter has an MG ZS EV which cost her £22k new.
    Both are nice SUVs
    As per my previous post for most private buyers Ev's are a none starter.I looked at the Kia Niro e and it was far cheaper for me to buy a petrol/hybrid than electric due to the ev costing more and that was on 9000 miles per year.

    Re your daughter i am glad she got a good deal but that could have been due to extra discount working for the NHS etc.

    A MGZS EV Exclusive with PICG is £28595 while the petrol version is £20805 so for most people they are never going to save nearly £8000 pounds in running costs for petrol/servicing etc.

    If you are leasing or PCP then the figures may be better.

    I have nothing against EV's(apart from how ugly the Tesla is from the front) and i hope in three years time they have come down enough to consider but for most private buyers they are not the answer at the moment.

    As for the OP there are some really nice EV's out there for business users and i really like the Audi.

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    Itís clear that everyone here who wonít buy an EV for whatever spurious reason hasnít actually really looked into EV ownership.

    Those that have, or actually own one, only have positive things to say about them.
    I would recon its far simpler it's convenience if you have a drive/garage they are viable if you don't have either you will struggle. Also subsidies and the lack of fuel duty on them atm provides large savings. Benifit in kind savings also push them for business atm they are a win/win for a particular demographic . These tend to be higher income households

    As with oil and mineral mining the environmental cost is huge.

    https://euobserver.com/opinion/151057

    I think this is possibley a little one sided but as the battery industry grows and shows huge scope for expansion we must be careful in how we act or like the rain forests or the Great barrier reef signs of wear and tare will start to show in these mining regions but as many have pointed out our air will be clean close to us.





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  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    Itís clear that everyone here who wonít buy an EV for whatever spurious reason hasnít actually really looked into EV ownership.

    Those that have, or actually own one, only have positive things to say about them.
    *quiet voice at the back of the room*

    I said I was changing my mind, and I have been reading about them in Evo and Octane for a decade and in the general motoring press since the 80s.

    I spent an hour in the Honda dealership yesterday talking about it.

    I am listening.

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjc1216 View Post
    As per my previous post for most private buyers Ev's are a none starter.I looked at the Kia Niro e and it was far cheaper for me to buy a petrol/hybrid than electric due to the ev costing more and that was on 9000 miles per year.

    Re your daughter i am glad she got a good deal but that could have been due to extra discount working for the NHS etc.

    A MGZS EV Exclusive with PICG is £28595 while the petrol version is £20805 so for most people they are never going to save nearly £8000 pounds in running costs for petrol/servicing etc.

    If you are leasing or PCP then the figures may be better.

    I have nothing against EV's(apart from how ugly the Tesla is from the front) and i hope in three years time they have come down enough to consider but for most private buyers they are not the answer at the moment.

    As for the OP there are some really nice EV's out there for business users and i really like the Audi.
    You said that the Kia EV was £3k more than the hybrid but at 9000 miles a year, youíre likely to be saving around £1000 in petrol at todayís prices (and theyíre likely to only go up) so the overall cost of ownership is unlikely to be greater over a three year (or greater) period.

    My daughter didnít get a discount for NHS etc as she doesnít work in the NHS. Last year, however, there were some great deals available and she was able to buy a brand new exclusive for £22k. If sheíd waited a month or so, she could have saved another £1000. Obviously these deals are unavailable now due to the current state of the car market.

    I was hoping to pick up an MG5 for under £20k but obviously that didnít happen.

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaOmega View Post
    *quiet voice at the back of the room*

    I said I was changing my mind, and I have been reading about them in Evo and Octane for a decade and in the general motoring press since the 80s.

    I spent an hour in the Honda dealership yesterday talking about it.

    I am listening.
    Doesnít that prove my point?

    Youíve been looking into it fairly seriously (the Honda E is hardly an option as a one car solution though due to it having such a small battery) and you are changing your mind, presumably in favour of the possibility of running an EV.

    Going back to your question about a 300mile each way trip to the country (there is countryside closer than the Outer Hebrides though! ), my parents live 300 miles away in Halifax and I could do that trip in any one of a number of the newer EVs with one stop for coffee each way which I do anyway. I donít drive the five hours in one hit any more. That said, Iíd probably buy a Tesla as the supercharger network is currently still the most reliable.

  16. #216
    Grand Master AlphaOmega's Avatar
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    It proves the opposite point.

    I have been digesting the articles of motoring writers who are independent - I would not class their views as spurious. They run long-term tests which give a true idea of ownership.

    However, their capacity for change is probably higher than mine and that's why I value the views of people like Pitch and your goodself as well.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    You could buy a Skoda Enyaq EV for under £35k. Most of the 60kwhr Enyaq models are below £35k rrp in order to benefit from the £2,500 government grant so less than £32,500.

    My daughter has an MG ZS EV which cost her £22k new.
    Both are nice SUVs
    I take it back, i never came across that model yesterday on a search for SUV EV's, actually not bad looking or priced and seems to have a range over 250 miles (realistic terms not manufacture's figure's), thanks i'll have a look at that model as well...

    Scratch that idea, just did the figures for a 2 year lease deal on a model i liked:

    Retail cash price
    £ 42,915
    Monthly Payment
    £ 723.06
    Rental in advance
    £ 4,338.36
    Contract length
    24 month(s)
    Annual mileage
    10 ,000 Miles per year
    Excess mileage
    16.49 p

    £723 a month!!!
    I normally pay around £300 ish on a lease deal...

    I'll see what they are like in 5 years time...
    Last edited by Martylaa; 14th August 2021 at 11:27.

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaOmega View Post
    It proves the opposite point.

    I have been digesting the articles of motoring writers who are independent - I would not class their views as spurious. They run long-term tests which give a true idea of ownership.

    However, their capacity for change is probably higher than mine and that's why I value the views of people like Pitch and your goodself as well.
    Are you changing your mind in favour or against?

    If the former then you are proving my point, your research is swaying you towards EV ownership.

    My wife still drives an ICE but we will definitely be making the switch when her PCP end, Iíve been driving an electric van for over six years now and will never willingly go back to ICE and Iím planning on buying a Livewire (electric bike) when they come to market next year.

    Iím not a green evangelist, I just love the performance and the way they drive/ride.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by UMBROSUS View Post
    I would recon its far simpler it's convenience if you have a drive/garage they are viable if you don't have either you will struggle. Also subsidies and the lack of fuel duty on them atm provides large savings. Benifit in kind savings also push them for business atm they are a win/win for a particular demographic . These tend to be higher income households

    As with oil and mineral mining the environmental cost is huge.

    https://euobserver.com/opinion/151057

    I think this is possibley a little one sided but as the battery industry grows and shows huge scope for expansion we must be careful in how we act or like the rain forests or the Great barrier reef signs of wear and tare will start to show in these mining regions but as many have pointed out our air will be clean close to us.
    As usual with these things, the picture is much more complicated and nuanced than the headlines.

    The DRC is working hard to formalise the 30% of independent/illegal of cobalt mining that goes on, making it much safer in the process. Itís a tricky thing, this informal mining puts food on the table for many families, but clearly nobody should die due to mining cobalt.

    Some manufacturers are for now buying cobalt only from Morocco and Australia, bypassing the DRC completely.

    We use cobalt in all kinds of things, including the refining of fossil road fuels, but I think the extra demand being driven by EV manufacture is helping to shine a light on horrible practices which should help benefit everybody longer term.

    The FT wrote a good piece on it.

    https://www.ft.com/content/c6909812-...6-a4640c9feebb

  20. #220
    I agree with others posting that EVs are just not affordable for many people.

    For young drivers or perhaps older folk living on a pension 'even' £20,000 is not affordable. Not everyone has access to a PCP or is lucky enough to be able to buy one as a company car. Personally my most expensive car was ~£9,000.

    For many others (again often the less well-off) living in flats or terraced houses with on-street parking they are just impractical. Not everyone want to waste time and spend £5 on a sandwich at Tesco whenever they want a few miles of supposedly 'cheap' motoring. Stuff like under-road charging has been mooted in the past but is never mentioned now.

    Same old arguments maybe but it's the same old evangelists on here banging on about how good they are based on their own blinkered experience every time.

    The sooner the use of EVs is fairly taxed the better and the costs will appear more realistic. At present, the early adopters are getting grants and cheap 'fuel' but no doubt things will be different when they are affordable to most people.

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaOmega View Post
    It proves the opposite point.

    I have been digesting the articles of motoring writers who are independent - I would not class their views as spurious. They run long-term tests which give a true idea of ownership.

    However, their capacity for change is probably higher than mine and that's why I value the views of people like Pitch and your goodself as well.
    My own long term testing started back in 2014, so far nothing to report except Iíve driven 175k electric miles for both work and leisure.

    Has it made me think about where and when I travel, or even whether a car is the right journey method in the first place? Yes, Iíve taken a train or delayed travel until I can do more things on the same trip.

    Has it been inconvenient? Yes, at times, like when Iím heading home from being away with work and the 30 mins Iím going to have to stop and charge means I wonít be able to read a bedtime story to my daughter.

    With the longer range cars we have now, even that is a rare event though.

    Am I virtue signalling? Itís a fair challenge, Iím a westerner who lives an overall unsustainable lifestyle, wrist trinkets included, although I donít think I am. I donít drive an EV to save the planet, simply because they wonít on there own.

    One of my brothers has a consulting business, he works with some very big automotive players, the wind has changed and theyíre all planning or are moving to EV production at varying scales.

    The transition will be a long one, I donít think anybody need worry theyíll be dragged kicking and screaming out of their current car. Iím satisfied that overall the juice is worth the squeeze with EVs, over the useable life of a car the EV impacts less, and that equation gets better the greener the grid.

  22. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    I agree with others posting that EVs are just not affordable for many people.

    For young drivers or perhaps older folk living on a pension 'even' £20,000 is not affordable. Not everyone has access to a PCP or is lucky enough to be able to buy one as a company car. Personally my most expensive car was ~£9,000.

    For many others (again often the less well-off) living in flats or terraced houses with on-street parking they are just impractical. Not everyone want to waste time and spend £5 on a sandwich at Tesco whenever they want a few miles of supposedly 'cheap' motoring. Stuff like under-road charging has been mooted in the past but is never mentioned now.

    Same old arguments maybe but it's the same old evangelists on here banging on about how good they are based on their own blinkered experience every time.

    The sooner the use of EVs is fairly taxed the better and the costs will appear more realistic. At present, the early adopters are getting grants and cheap 'fuel' but no doubt things will be different when they are affordable to most people.
    Itís the same for any technology, not everyone can afford to buy them new or early. Just because the young or less well off canít bug them now, it doesnít mean that they wonít be able to in the near future.

    People who donít buy new cars now are unlikely to buy new EVs, they may buy them when second hand EVs are at a price they feel comfortable with or can afford. There are EVs on autotrader from £4K.

    As I said previously, Iím no evangelist but on here we are a bunch of reasonably well off, middle aged guys talking about EVs from a similar perspective where most, although not all, can probably afford to buy one if they wanted to. Are we to not buy any new car (EV or ICE) because other people canít afford to?

  23. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    I agree with others posting that EVs are just not affordable for many people.

    For young drivers or perhaps older folk living on a pension 'even' £20,000 is not affordable. Not everyone has access to a PCP or is lucky enough to be able to buy one as a company car. Personally my most expensive car was ~£9,000.

    For many others (again often the less well-off) living in flats or terraced houses with on-street parking they are just impractical. Not everyone want to waste time and spend £5 on a sandwich at Tesco whenever they want a few miles of supposedly 'cheap' motoring. Stuff like under-road charging has been mooted in the past but is never mentioned now.

    Same old arguments maybe but it's the same old evangelists on here banging on about how good they are based on their own blinkered experience every time.

    The sooner the use of EVs is fairly taxed the better and the costs will appear more realistic. At present, the early adopters are getting grants and cheap 'fuel' but no doubt things will be different when they are affordable to most people.
    You forgot to write evangelists as ĎEVangelistsí, thatís the usual way that folks attacking people who happen to share their experience from actually owning and driving them day to day.

    You donít think that the fossil fuel industry has ever been subsidised? I pay for my EV Ďfuelí, itís not free. Yeah, I got a £2.5k grant towards mine, not sure why as I think itís unnecessary and probably just means the manufacturer pockets the money by inflating the price of the car.

    Hardly anybody pays cash for a car these days, some do, but itís a very small minority, so the headline prices are fairly academic.

    The market is changing, EVs are getting cheaper, more models are coming out all the time now, all those new cars are trickling onto the used market.

    Itís still early days in the grand scheme of things, and Iím still not sure what people are afraid of with it all.

  24. #224
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    I would have an ev in a heartbeat,but being on a pension means I canít afford it.

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    Are you changing your mind in favour or against?

    If the former then you are proving my point, your research is swaying you towards EV ownership.

    My wife still drives an ICE but we will definitely be making the switch when her PCP end, Iíve been driving an electric van for over six years now and will never willingly go back to ICE and Iím planning on buying a Livewire (electric bike) when they come to market next year.

    Iím not a green evangelist, I just love the performance and the way they drive/ride.
    Ah, slightly crossed wires. I'm changing in favour.

    I thought you were assuming any rejection of EVs was based on spurious reasons but I have been waiting for the tipping point, wherever that is. I think we are getting there and I must admit to being out of the market during Covid so probably need to reacquaint myself with current offerings.

    Honda has provided me with the best cars of my life (for a variety of reasons not all of them budgetary).

    Quote Originally Posted by Tooks View Post
    My own long term testing started back in 2014, so far nothing to report except Iíve driven 175k electric miles for both work and leisure.

    Has it made me think about where and when I travel, or even whether a car is the right journey method in the first place? Yes, Iíve taken a train or delayed travel until I can do more things on the same trip.

    Has it been inconvenient? Yes, at times, like when Iím heading home from being away with work and the 30 mins Iím going to have to stop and charge means I wonít be able to read a bedtime story to my daughter.

    With the longer range cars we have now, even that is a rare event though.

    Am I virtue signalling? Itís a fair challenge, Iím a westerner who lives an overall unsustainable lifestyle, wrist trinkets included, although I donít think I am. I donít drive an EV to save the planet, simply because they wonít on there own.

    One of my brothers has a consulting business, he works with some very big automotive players, the wind has changed and theyíre all planning or are moving to EV production at varying scales.

    The transition will be a long one, I donít think anybody need worry theyíll be dragged kicking and screaming out of their current car. Iím satisfied that overall the juice is worth the squeeze with EVs, over the useable life of a car the EV impacts less, and that equation gets better the greener the grid.
    That's very helpful.

  26. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tooks View Post
    You forgot to write evangelists as ĎEVangelistsí, thatís the usual way that folks attacking people who happen to share their experience from actually owning and driving them day to day.

    You donít think that the fossil fuel industry has ever been subsidised? I pay for my EV Ďfuelí, itís not free. Yeah, I got a £2.5k grant towards mine, not sure why as I think itís unnecessary and probably just means the manufacturer pockets the money by inflating the price of the car.

    Hardly anybody pays cash for a car these days, some do, but itís a very small minority, so the headline prices are fairly academic.

    The market is changing, EVs are getting cheaper, more models are coming out all the time now, all those new cars are trickling onto the used market.

    Itís still early days in the grand scheme of things, and Iím still not sure what people are afraid of with it all.
    I buy my car always have if I can't afford it I buy a cheaper one or wait a year for it as there very affordable cars I could have even if I want another.. Just me.

    As for grants the current scandal as I see it is the decomishing grants for rigs

    https://www.theguardian.com/business...north-sea-rigs


    It's an old artical but this year most if not all oil companies in the North Sea were negative in tax

    https://news.sky.com/story/revealed-...he-uk-12380442

    Total scandal imo

    To be fair come mass adoption of EV I am sure grants will be given to recycle the batteries. In all things the burden to the taxpayer is always huge

    Sent from my VOG-L09 using TZ-UK mobile app

  27. #227
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    Electric cars-got to be a viable option now?

    Never liked the look of Teslas but test drove a 3 this morning. Inside and from a driving perspective it was awesome. The instant and fuss-free oomph is something else, and I recommend the experience even if youíre not in the market.

  28. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by UMBROSUS View Post
    I think now is a great time to think about these things this estate you mention with I dont know 1200 houses. This is the time to plan for powering these chargers uprating power to houses and having charging facilities. There has to be a will to pay for this though.

    We are a consumer society at present busy consuming the planet.

    On a not so serious note I hope these EV can manage next day rmsd they need to improve enough to keep this service going...
    Not sure what you're saying there, but a handful of the £1m+ houses may have chargers, but the vast majority of the houses just around my town built in the last 5 years absolutely do NOT and equally don't have access for any more than one (at best) EV to be charged.

    Now isn't the time, the time was when they gave permission to build all these massive estates with no thought for the future in other respects. Some dreamer seemed to believe there'd be no need for personal transport in 10 years time, so slashed the number of parking spaces these new properties had to have.

    The hackneyed phrase 'joined up thinking' is what's needed, but clearly not taught in any of our schools or universities and certainly not evident amongst our glorious leaders.


    M
    Last edited by snowman; 14th August 2021 at 16:43.
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  29. #229
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    There is talk of all new builds having to have facility for charging EVs. My daughters house was built last year and has the wiring for an EV charger (double outdoor socket on it at the moment).

    The trouble is the builders donít have the brains to put the charger point anywhere close to the parking space, her house is double fronted with parking to the left and the charge point under the right hand window!

    To fit a charger, the cable will need to go to first floor level, along the length of the house under the hung tiles, round the corner, down the fuse if the house passing round the chimney before dropping down to the best place to put the charger. About 15m in total.

  30. #230
    Master Tifa's Avatar
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    EV's are the equivalent of BetaMax video players...

    The idea is great, but in reality they're not fit for general purpose.
    I'm happy to hear otherwise from EV drivers who do 350-400 mile days regularly (weekly) though....


    Serious question:
    Does anyone know of a Police Force or Emergency Service that has gone 100% electric...or has stated they are going to do so?

  31. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Tifa View Post
    EV's are the equivalent of BetaMax video players...

    The idea is great, but in reality they're not fit for general purpose.
    I'm happy to hear otherwise from EV drivers who do 350-400 mile days regularly (weekly) though....


    Serious question:
    Does anyone know of a Police Force or Emergency Service that has gone 100% electric...or has stated they are going to do so?

    Under trial......https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...olice-car.html

    Dont understand the bit about not being fit for purpose when weíve heard from a few people on here that they are

  32. #232
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tifa View Post
    EV's are the equivalent of BetaMax video players...
    So whatís the equivalent of VHS?


    Quote Originally Posted by Tifa View Post

    The idea is great, but in reality they're not fit for general purpose.
    I'm happy to hear otherwise from EV drivers who do 350-400 mile days regularly (weekly) though....
    So unless they can do 350-400 miles on a charge, theyíre not fit for general purpose?

    Err, right.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tifa View Post

    Serious question:
    Does anyone know of a Police Force or Emergency Service that has gone 100% electric...or has stated they are going to do so?
    Not yet but as far as Iím aware there are no EV ambulances or fire engines yet. Thatís hardly relevant though.

  33. #233
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    Had a poke around an ID.3 and an MG5 today. The ID.3 seemed smaller than I thought it would be, it would be pretty snug for three adults across the back.
    The MG5 surprised me. It seemed really good value for what you get. It looked packed with toys and with £1500 down it was coming in at £402 over 60 months on HP, so no balloon payment at the end.
    The taxi trade has picked back up now so Iíll be going back and if I put my E220 back on as a taxi I would be looking at about £480-£500 a month on fuel for that, so the MG at £402 a month is going to come in cheaper than that even after charging costs.

  34. #234
    I wonder how many are like me? I'm a prime candidate for an EV. I can buy or lease one through a company, I can have charging at home and I don't do a lot of long journeys. So why don't I have one? Because the potential cost savings are insignificant, the cars uninspiring, and most importantly I'm just not prepared to swap the potential benefits for the risk of being inconvenienced or stranded and the requirement to think ahead and plan.

    I want to be convinced. Is there any hope for me?

  35. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowman View Post
    Not sure what you're saying there, but a handful of the £1m+ houses may have chargers, but the vast majority of the houses just around my town built in the last 5 years absolutely do NOT and equally don't have access for any more than one (at best) EV to be charged.

    Now isn't the time, the time was when they gave permission to build all these massive estates with no thought for the future in other respects. Some dreamer seemed to believe there'd be no need for personal transport in 10 years time, so slashed the number of parking spaces these new properties had to have.

    The hackneyed phrase 'joined up thinking' is what's needed, but clearly not taught in any of our schools or universities and certainly not evident amongst our glorious leaders.


    M
    This was a reply to someone saying what you were saying I was agreeing and saying now is a great time to start as I don't have a time machine so now is the soonest we can start. Would it have been better to do before yes I recon. Further down I also mention mains gas and alternative being looked at which needs this joined up thinking you mention. This additional load in housing estates will in some instances need upgrades to infrastructure.

    Sent from my VOG-L09 using TZ-UK mobile app

  36. #236
    Grand Master mart broad's Avatar
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    Just went to a hybrid rather than the full package and so far so good my last experience was a Lexus some 10yrs ago and we do have the option to fit a charging point without a problem but what about the housing estates, the streets of terraced houses , the high rises etc,etc what is the answer to their charging needs?
    I FEEL LIKE I'M DIAGONALLY PARKED IN A PARALLEL UNIVERSE

  37. #237
    No ones trying to convince anyone to do anything but I fail to see how it wonít pay in the long run if youíre purchasing a comparably priced vehicle.
    £10 for 200 miles or £30 for 200 miles.

  38. #238
    but what about the housing estates, the streets of terraced houses , the high rises etc,etc what is the answer to their charging needs?

    People who live in cityís donít really need cars!

  39. #239
    Grand Master mart broad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr G Imp View Post
    but what about the housing estates, the streets of terraced houses , the high rises etc,etc what is the answer to their charging needs?

    People who live in cityís donít really need cars!
    Of course they do not need cars not even the pesky people that inhabit the suburbs the perfect public transport system will meet all their needs.
    I FEEL LIKE I'M DIAGONALLY PARKED IN A PARALLEL UNIVERSE

  40. #240
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    No ones trying to convince anyone to do anything but I fail to see how it wonít pay in the long run if youíre purchasing a comparably priced vehicle.
    £10 for 200 miles or £30 for 200 miles.
    Of course, but how on earth are we going to generate and distribute sufficient electricity - the gap between now and what the aspirations are seem to be miles out of alignment?
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  41. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    Of course, but how on earth are we going to generate and distribute sufficient electricity - the gap between now and what the aspirations are seem to be miles out of alignment?
    Wonít the majority of charging be done overnight? Purely guesswork here but Iíd think that there is more energy being used by households through the day (cooker, washer, tumble dryer, kettle etc) than there would be with the same household charging an electric car overnight.
    If the grid can meet the demand through the day, why wouldnít it meet the demand through the night?

  42. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr G Imp View Post
    but what about the housing estates, the streets of terraced houses , the high rises etc,etc what is the answer to their charging needs?

    People who live in cityís donít really need cars!
    I agree with you regards terraced houses and high rises, but most housing estates have drives or at least the room to put a drive in. Iím on a council estate and I have a drive and a garage.

  43. #243

    Electric cars-got to be a viable option now?

    Replying to ChrisÖ.forgot to quote

    The problem will get worse and worse because natural gas is being phased out slowly. Arenít all new houses now electric only, mine certainly is? I guess with investment in alternative and renewable energy sources. Utilising areas that are basically scrubland where nobody would want to live like the thousands of miles around train lines that go unused and turn them in to solar farms.
    Whatever we do will see a huge increase in power needs so either way something will have to be done
    Last edited by Franky Four Fingers; 14th August 2021 at 19:40.

  44. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    Wonít the majority of charging be done overnight? Purely guesswork here but Iíd think that there is more energy being used by households through the day (cooker, washer, tumble dryer, kettle etc) than there would be with the same household charging an electric car overnight.
    If the grid can meet the demand through the day, why wouldnít it meet the demand through the night?
    Because everyone will be charging overnight eventually- during the day a lot of houses are empty and need changes throughout the day


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  45. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    Wonít the majority of charging be done overnight? Purely guesswork here but Iíd think that there is more energy being used by households through the day (cooker, washer, tumble dryer, kettle etc) than there would be with the same household charging an electric car overnight.
    If the grid can meet the demand through the day, why wouldnít it meet the demand through the night?
    Presumably the amount of energy required would be enormously increased if everyone had a battery car

  46. #246
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaytip View Post
    Wonít the majority of charging be done overnight? Purely guesswork here but Iíd think that there is more energy being used by households through the day (cooker, washer, tumble dryer, kettle etc) than there would be with the same household charging an electric car overnight.
    If the grid can meet the demand through the day, why wouldnít it meet the demand through the night?
    The power requirements will (currently) be massive beyond the cooker/tumble dryer/kettle balance - what if you have 2 cars?
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  47. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr G Imp View Post
    Presumably the amount of energy required would be enormously increased if everyone had a battery car
    Electricity provided by Fossil Fuel and Nuclear Power Stations, again makes the green aspect of it laughable...

    Like others I'm waiting for when the government works out how to tax those EV's and the Power Companies raise the nighttime tariff's, then and only then will you see how beneficial they are to run...

    I'd love to be proven wrong but I always remember when the Government pushed Diesel cars not too long ago, and look how that turned out...
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41985715

    They're already admitting people driving EV's will leave the pot empty...
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55358100
    Last edited by Martylaa; 14th August 2021 at 20:00.

  48. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    The power requirements will (currently) be massive beyond the cooker/tumble dryer/kettle balance - what if you have 2 cars?
    If I have my oven and electric boiler on my usage goes up to over 16kw an hour as the boiler alone is 14kw.....massive wonít be the word for it.

  49. #249
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    Of course, but how on earth are we going to generate and distribute sufficient electricity - the gap between now and what the aspirations are seem to be miles out of alignment?
    The National Grid donít seem to be too concerned about that?

    https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories...ehicles-busted

    Itís going to need investment, but the government seems willing to do that, at the moment. Private companies are also investing heavily in public charging.

    This EV revolution is going to bring new jobs, on street slow charging in cities is already being trialled, if you can plug in where you park your car be that on your drive or on the street, it really isnít technically impossible.

    In the Ďwhat do you driveí thread, we all coo over a McLaren (and a very nice car it is too!) but mention of EVs has people in all sorts of a state.

  50. #250
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    The power requirements will (currently) be massive beyond the cooker/tumble dryer/kettle balance - what if you have 2 cars?
    We have 2 EVs, but only a single 7kW charge point, and we manage fine. If we were both maxing out the range on them each day and they both needed to be full again by the morning, that would be an issue. But if that was our lifestyle I think weíd have other things to worry about to be honest.

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