Agree with this. Nice halo there.Originally Posted by Tokyo Tokei
Only a single car household here, ice, though we chose a small 1.2 l engine, no halo I'm afraid.
Seems daft to me though to cash it in after only 3 years of ownership in order to splurge on another vehicle, that is definitely dearer to buy, perhaps dearer in it's manufacturing toll, of debatable green creds and compromised utility, at this stage.
There isn't a debate on whether EV is greener than ICE.
For sure, you can debate whether EVs are green and there are definitely problems in the supply chain, but all the evidence shows the EV is better for the environment that ICE.
Fair enough.
With that said I suspect the greenest car is the one you currently own, unless you scrap your current car when replacing it through it being seriously uneconomical to repair. The 2-3 year lease/pcp cycle causes untimely replacement of perfectly serviceable cars.
Whilst that depends to an extent on the car, I don’t disagree in general, we need to sweat the assets we’ve got as well, at least the ones that are fairly modern emissions wise.
To be fair, the PCP cycle means there are plenty of good 3 or 4 year old vehicles for those who don’t want to, or can’t, buy new.
Company car drivers are adopting EVs en masse for the very low BIK, they’ll be flowing down to the used market in a couple of years time.
It’s going to be a long transition for sure, and other technologies may emerge along the way.
Not had an EV but just looking at changing my car and in the last two weeks have been to many garages and driven many different vehicles both ev and ice.
I like new things and change unlike a lot of older people and couldn't find much to fault with ev's and i really liked the Kia e-Niro which i think was a what car winner in 2019.
However the problem for a private buyer is the cost...a hybrid version is over 3k cheaper and has much more kit as standard so there is no benefit for a private buyer in running costs.
In terms of the environment we could discuss that all day long but unless you give up flying or importing cheap tatt from China or the big issue that no one talks about is human population then for most people a choice between ev or ice is just a lifestyle choice.
I am glad there is a choice and i think ev's and charging issues will improve but i will wait a few years before i consider buying one.
Living in Sunny San Diego, I wonder if built-in auto solar panels will ever become practical...
Musk answered this on a recent podcast. On the car itself, the answer is no. Not enough area. On a property to which the car is temporarily attached to charge, yes.Living in Sunny San Diego, I wonder if built-in auto solar panels will ever become practical...
Yep
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Indeed, this is the big one, the sheer numbers of us.
I hope we can make enough of a difference. But I'm very dubious when I read comments on here such as "I regularly have to travel 200 miles plus", do you? Really?
I'm not picking on anyone or preaching because I am just as guilty as I own and enjoy a totally unnecessary diesel campervan, so I'm definitely just as much a part of the problem. But while our attitudes like this persist, and of course our population continues to grow at this rate, any small personal changes we make, while good intentioned and of course better than nothing, will sadly not keep up. Any meaningful change requires massive governmental intervention, worldwide, and even that may not be enough given the human population of the earth. But then it wouldn't happen in any remotely unified way anyway so pretty much a moot point I suppose.
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I swear the cars in the US have gotten bigger in the last couple of years, was over there in June/July...Any meaningful change requires millions or billions of us deciding to consume less, live with a lower impact, smaller footprints, live a bit smaller...I can't see it happening at near enough pace, quantity.
I guess for the maker it would be a simple case of cost V benefit. I’ve got panels on my roof that produce 300w each, lovely flat panels which obviously aren’t designed for that. Any panel would have to be integrated into the strength of the car and plumbed in. Guessing it would add extra weight so would that be any benefit if it were only producing 300-400w? I could perhaps understand it if they used it to top up the small vehicle battery but again it’s a huge expense for such a small return.Living in Sunny San Diego, I wonder if built-in auto solar panels will ever become practical...
Im sure there’ll be better but all the EVs I’ve driven have returned no more than around 3 miles per KW. With some simple maths using 300w panel and 10 hrs of perfect sunlight you'd get around 9 extra miles.
Last edited by Franky Four Fingers; 13th August 2021 at 08:36.
If they can get it cheap and light enough, it’s a free nine or ten miles a day as long as you don’t park it undercover. Even when you’re driving you’re adding a little back and if you’re car is parked up for a couple of weeks, there could be a reasonable range added to the battery.
A solar roof isn’t actually going to be much different to a panoramic sunroof so it’s potentially doable.
I think it’s certainly going to be an option for the future but current costs v benefits don’t make it viable....especially in Blighty
Wasn't there a top of the range Merc going back a few years ago that utilised something similar to this to keep the ac system running in hot climates?
Last edited by Franky Four Fingers; 13th August 2021 at 09:23.
IIRC The newest Hyundai EV has this, it might be an option but that detail I can not recall, likely to be of more use to our continental and North American cousins I suspect.
It’s a good idea, at ten miles worth of electricity per day (or say half of that on average), that’s nearly 2000 free miles a year for every car. Possibly more if you can utilise the bonnet too.
Yes a nice wee saving atm anyway I am sure the tax man will soon put a tax on it.
I do remember with a smile the old chip shop oil used as fuel and the tax man was after his share. No doubt a bag of crispy bits if folk remember them.... The Good old days fish, chips and a drink for less than a tenner
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Take a look at most of the massive new housing estates being built around London. Nowhere to park more than two cars for 5 bedroom houses and often just communal parking areas for smaller properties.
No one is seriously thinking about this as far as I can see.
M
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Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
Top of range Ioniq5 has one but "Image shown not to UK specification and Solar Roof is not available in UK"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNdeLDeUBMk
I think now is a great time to think about these things this estate you mention with I dont know 1200 houses. This is the time to plan for powering these chargers uprating power to houses and having charging facilities. There has to be a will to pay for this though.
We are a consumer society at present busy consuming the planet.
On a not so serious note I hope these EV can manage next day rmsd they need to improve enough to keep this service going...
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Mabe hydro power as an option for up here in Scotland just catch the rain as it falls
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The previous generation Prius had this as an option 10 years ago. IIRC it was (unimaginatively) called "Solar Roof" or similar.
The way climate change is going this seems rather short sighted
I live in North Norfolk and only yesterday my wife was moaning how many spaces in our local car park have recently been taken up with electric charge points - I hadn’t noticed them before, must be recently installed but all were empty.I really would like my next car to be an EV but…
During the winter months I drive little, rarely more than 100 miles a week, have a garage so an EV would be ideal.
However, during the summer months I regularly drive down to north Norfolk. This is a 175 mile trip; I then typically stay there for a week and then drive the 175 miles back home. This pattern is repeated throughout the summer months.
I could get there on a single charge but then I’d be stuffed as there are basically NO charging points within about 25 miles( well one Tesla and one other that zap map reports, but doesn’t seem to exist).
Until there is wide scale charging available, not just on trunk roads and in cities, it’s not going to be feasible for a lot of people.
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As an aside I went for a drink last night with my 20 year old son - who recently passed his driving test - and his mates, all of whom have passed their tests within the last couple of years (you really need a car in North Norfolk, there is very little viable public transport) for a bunch of millennials they certainly seem very interested in bhp, the difference between a turbo and a supercharger, subwoofers and big alloy wheels! - nothing at all appears to have changed since I was a lad when it comes to young blokes and cars! - I mentioned the EV thing, and none of them see it as remotely affordable for them - they don’t own their own homes, don’t have their own electricity bill, and more importantly can’t even begin to afford a Tesla which appears to be the only EV they desire. I mentioned the Mustang Mach E and all said ‘that’s not a proper Mustang, you want a big V8 in a muscle car’! - so much for sensitive millennials!
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I’d be interested to hear where they are?
I’m a Lincs dweller, but frequent North Norfolk quite a bit!
I’m aware of the 8 x Rapid Charge units at Necton/Swaffham, and the odd rapid around the coastal towns, along with Kings Lynn.
The ones we found yesterday are in Fakenham ( there are also a few in Morrison’s) and Holt has a fair few. In the summer months when half of London is up here in some form of massive black SUV or Tesla they can be quite busy, for the remaining 8 months it’s like tumbleweed with all the chargers empty and the car park full of Ford Rangers, various pick ups and 10 year old Fiestas!
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Ah, cheers. I’d seen the Fakenham ones on ZapMap, useful resource for parking up and getting a charge whilst you poke around town for a bit.
Supermarkets are getting them in because they can and often have room for them. Put them in now so they are ready unlike the housing estates mentioned earlier. Also you've got customers who will shop whilst they are charging the vehicle. Are the chargers the stores or a partnership with the charging co. Can see tie ins with nectar/Tesco Club being an advantage to the owners of the sites.
All the supermarket chargers I’m aware of are partnerships with charging companies, which makes sense I think.
Booths have gone with Instavolt rapid chargers which makes sense for a 20-30 minute visit. You won’t get much charge from even a 7kW post in that time.
PodPoint have partnered with Tesco, and they’re in a few Sainsbury’s stores as well. Geniepoint are at some Morrison’s, and NewMotion (a Shell company) are going in at Aldi.
Homes shouldn’t need ‘upgrading’ as such, most new homes have a 100A supply which is plenty for a 7kW home charger alongside the normal requirements of even a large home, unless you hear a swimming pool or hot tub etc at the same time.
Sorry mabe I was unclear most homes again are OK with the 100 amp even with an additional 20 odd amp charger perhaps 2 along with electric shower and dishwasher and kettle etc. There is however along with this a move away from mains gas central heating some folk pushing alternative mains fuel and some thinking electric central heating all adding huge loads to the network and possible overload problems.
I don't have a hot tub but some of these can be heavy hitting just seems unlike utilities digging up the road every fortnight we could get something sorted all together by the people who know what's in the pipeline. Already my welder can be a pain to run in our house if it's baltic and I have a heater on.
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Was in Sheringham this morning and noticed that one of the public’s car parks now has a row of 5/6 charging bays. None of which were being used. I think these must be fairly new as I don’t remember seeing them before.
Seems like Norfolk is taking the hint and providing some good charging options. I’ve looked on ZapMap and plenty of people are commenting that they’ve used them.
At 35p per kWh, quite expensive for slower destination chargers, but better than not having the option at all and will encourage owners to town I’m sure.
Seem to be operated by Geniepoint so hopefully will be maintained as well.
I'm in, put my order in for a q4 etron last night, just waiting for a delivery date.
Replacing the wife's Q7, didn't think she would go for it but after a test drive she loved it
Quite excited by it
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Nice... They look great and a good option if you have two cars
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Thank You. I can wait.
Ye cannae change the laws of physics. What happens to the quoted range when the vehicle is used in hilly areas such as the Pennines? Can a user in Halifax and surrounding district expect the same results as one in Lincolnshire or Norfolk?
And we still don`t know the answer to the tax conundrum............do we?
Thank You for this info and link. I am quite out of touch with the prices.
You’re right, you can’t change the laws of physics.
The ID.3 we have has a quoted range of 263 miles, in real use that’s about 225 for me.
I drove mine last winter up the A1 from Lincs in sub zero temps, before Wetherby it was snowing, then I turned left onto the A66 and went into a blizzard at the highest point.
I was on course for about a 190 mile range after all that, but I recharged at Penrith fine.
That’s worse case though I think, and similar range drops with ICE cars happens as well. A 10 gallon petrol car has the equivalent of 400-450 kWh of electricity on board, so higher consumption just isn’t noticed as much.
For me, the advantages outweigh the disadvantages, I like the fact it charges up whilst I sleep and in the morning I’ve got a couple of hundred miles of range available to me.
Tax wise, yes I think it’s inevitable that attention will turn to gaining revenue from it, although I don’t have a crystal ball so no idea what that would look like. I expect it will be less punitive than fossil fuels though, otherwise I expect EV adoption will dry up pretty quickly.
We need to look at all options re transport to be honest, if Hydrogen becomes viable I’ll be delighted, although I hope that would still mean EVs would work for many. We have petrol and diesel, why not EV for passenger cars and Hydrogen for bigger vehicles like lorries etc.
I’m quite excited by the future to be honest, whether EVs are it or not.
It's a chicken and egg situation isn't it - with the improving infrastructure more folk will choose to go electric
We test drive a VW ID.3 today and it had regenerative braking topping up the batteries. Though far from 100% effective, I imagine at least part of the extra energy used going up a hill is recouped coming back down
Ermmmmmm, petrol and diesel buddy???? Think it’s the same for any fuel.
Pitch
Interesting just done the sums for one of my contracts managers.
Now coming to the end of a three year lease on a A4 black edition 1.4TSI saloon vs a Tesla Model 3 SR+. Okay, the lease is more but the cost of fuel, servicing and brakes makes for Winner to the Tesla. Plus he will be quids in.
Pitch
Unless he or she is doing big annual mileage, I wouldn’t have thought service costs on the Audi within warranty are all that much? And as for brakes - I’ve had a few cars on 3 year leases, and a fair few older cars and I don’t think I’ve ever had to replace a single brake component on any of them??!!
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I know that......the point I’m making is that the range figures for electric cars will be affected likewise!
As the owner of a heavy car (Jaguar XF 3.0 diesel) I’m very aware of this, the car drinks fuel when driving up and down hill, but I don’t care because I don’t do big mileage. My orger car (1970 MGB) likes a drink too.
It’ll be a long while before I buy an electric car.
Main dealer service has been a few hundred quid and he has done a set of pads Rob, you know what the roads are like round here.
Electric will be a far better option for the business but it has to be Tesla, the business cannot rely on the public charging infrastructure. With SC network at Elveden, Kings Lynn and Chelmsford he will be fine.
My first 6,000 miles cost the business £250 in electric.
Pitch
Fair enough. A bit of spirited driving around these parts will certainly involve a bit of stopping! I have to admit I’ve been surprised at how many charge points I see popping up all over North Norfolk. My daily commute is about 14 miles each way so I was already considering an EV as I am lucky enough to have a drive and garage with plenty of scope for a home charger. When the car is up for renewal in just under 18 months I’m sure there will be more models on sale - and a lot of the current models like the VW ID3 will have their reported software glitches sorted. It does feel like there is a lot of focus on the more expensive/luxury end of the market at the moment, it’ll be interesting to see the advances trickle down to the masses
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And likewise buddy I would not personally purchase but a business lease is a no brainier. The whole range thing is not an issue for me, you just have to change your mindset which I found very easy to do.
I would add that I have not purchased a car for probably 6 years all mine and wifey’s car have been leased. In the words of JPG……
Pitch
Same here, we are operating all over Norfolk, Suffolk and Cambridgeshire and there are plenty but it’s still charge rate vs £££ vs are they actually working.
I am finding more supermarkets have free 7kw charging which by the time I have a pee, sandwich and flip the laptop open I have 30 miles in the bin for nothing. I have installed three charging points in the office for staff and clients who visit, so I always leave fully charged and the one at home is good for weekends.
I think the VW looks great unlike my M3P which is plain ugly
Pitch
Great move installing three charging points - it’s meaningful gestures like that which will help spread the network of chargers and increase the take-up of EV’s in the short to medium term. I have a couple of clients whose businesses have done the same thing, and the staff can’t stop raving about it :)
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I know a guy who really takes the urine with the Tesco chargers.
He has a Nissan e-NV200 that he uses for parcel delivery. When is battery is running low he goes to the local Tesco, plugs in, jumps in his girlfriends car (who followed him in obviously) and just leaves his van there charging. He doesn’t even go into the shop.
How long he leaves it there for I don’t know but he was recently bragging on Facebook that he hadn’t paid for fuel for nearly a year.
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