Reply With QuoteOriginally Posted by tertius
Not even if you get it from Amazon?
Its swings and roundabouts Ryan, yes the Germans don't have the experience building EVs but they have the experience in building mass produced vehicles of a certain quality. Having been in the trade for many years thats something sadly cant be denied. Elon just happened to be at the right place at the right time and stole a march on everyone else. Whilst everyone else was still trying to get the most out of a petrol or diesel engine and to make them as efficient and less polluting Elon was thinking electric. He's got to the party before everyone else for sure but he should be looking over his shoulder closely….theres loads of wannabes coming up through the ranks and on top of that major manufactures are bringing out some interesting lines…especially the Koreans.
Id like to see his sales figures in 10 years time.
Not even if you get it from Amazon?
Unless Musk has bought out Bezos then why not from Amazon? Sister won't use Amazon as they "kill the high street" and she works in Tesco - where do you draw the line?
just wondering why you say porsche excepted? BMW had some very novel EVs in the i3 (and hybrid i8) but have gone backwards with shared platforms and f'all innovation, its very audi ( and i say that as a q8 etron driver)
Because the Taycan is a very accomplished car, and in the correct configuration is every bit a 'proper' Porsche.
Is Bezos really any better than Musk?
Oh, the irony.
Last edited by Dave+63; 23rd January 2024 at 13:00.
My wife’s 2021 M3 LR has ultrasonic parking sensors, front radar, indicator stalks and a physical drive selector, all missing from the latest iterations. Tesla Vision is a poor substitute for ultrasonic sensors, and the radar.
Indicator stalk deleted and two buttons on the left steering wheel along with the drive selector now only being selectable from the main screen smacks of penny pinching.
I’d also like Tesla to implement Android Auto/CarPlay and at least offer a HUD as an option which would be a useful addition given the lack of a steering wheel screen.
Hers is a China built model, and is very well built in terms of panel gaps etc, although the blue paint is quite soft. The only thing that has gone wrong with it in nearly 3 years are the rear lights are prone to condensation, and one started filling with water. The Tesla Ranger has replaced them both now, but both still get condensation in them.
What they do well is the software implementation and of course the charging network, which is still valuable to some.
Astonishing that Teslas don't have CarPlay as standard, even my crappy Nissan has it and it is very handy.
Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH
It is crazy buddy but after three years without CP and now living with it again in Mrs P's BMW, I did not really miss it. Tesla has the Spotify App so music and podcasts were always at hand, Google maps worked as good as any other nav I have had, calendar sinc'd fine for meetings and taking me to them, voice and everything else just worked.
Pitch
Me too, family firmly in the Apple ecosystem and our current Ford and Cupra both have CarPlay in use on every drive. Amazed you can’t get them on a Tesla??!! Cupra also has HUD even on mid spec which I actually find very useful. Anything that avoids taking your eyes off the road has to be a plus!
Last edited by RobDad; 23rd January 2024 at 14:50.
Tesla also has Zoom meetings so you can attend video meetings in your car. Not sure if that's a good or a bad thing but it's there if you want it
I use Deezer as it's better for the artists, is that supported?
Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH
Not via a native Tesla app, only by pairing your phone
I don’t pay the £10 per month for integrated Spotify so just use my phone over Bluetooth like a normal car. Easily…ish controlled via Siri/Google Assistant.
I don’t think so M.
Paul
Makes sense, works fine but not quite as handy as the CarPlay or Android interface.
Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH
CarPlay would be an extremely welcome addition, even my Mum’s old Polo has it. With Musk there will no doubt be a petulant reason as to why it isn’t.
On the CarPlay I was told before I bought it that Tesla feel they don’t need it and I think I agree.
I’m a big fan of CarPlay. In fact I’ve had it retrofitted on 2 or 3 previous cars spending 100s each time as I felt it was needed. Was thinking about some after market way of fitting it to the Tesla when I first got it. But don’t miss it in the Tesla, it has a good maps system which is the main benefit to me of CarPlay. It also has the integrated music. Works just fine for me.
Back to the main thread topic. Although I feel electric cars are a very viable option…The good old noisy diesel isn’t bad at times too. Surprised me today with the trip back from the Midlands.
I’ve been listening to my car…at slow to moderate speeds, what I mostly hear and feel vibe wise is the tyres/ road noise…presumably even in an EV that’s still going to be sound and sensation generated by rubber contact with road…I mean they ain’t hover/ flying cars for all the futureish froth and extra cost…
I’ve driven a few automatics in the States, dull…prefer a gear box personally….so a huge step forward in driving experience, feeling…Meh…quick in a straight line I don’t doubt….For reference referring to normal, affordable vehicles not yer Porsche Taycans and such.
Last edited by Passenger; 25th January 2024 at 09:29.
You don’t half talk some shit sometimes!
with the current state of UK roads - holes all over the place and bad repairs after the telecom guys have done their bit, driving our i3 with it's skinny wheels/tyres is not pleasant!!
Eh? Genuinely trying to get what the deal, appeal is with these EVs, that is all and my small engined Skoda is very quiet at lower, mid speeds and a pretty comfortable ride too, so it didn’t seem like an unreasonable comment/ poo post to me…and yes Yank automatics are pretty dull in my view.
Last edited by Passenger; 25th January 2024 at 10:28.
Sounds an entirely reasonable, plausible view of the situation fwiw.
I can’t speak for American automatics because I’ve not driven any but even so, I wouldn’t judge all yank autos on one or two. The auto boxes in my wife’s Mercedes and her mini before that were very good and much better than the box in my 59 plate Merc.
As to the ride in an EV, if the road surfaces are bad then the ride is as bad as any other car but on decent, smooth roads the ride is much better. Driving your Skoda at slow speeds will not replicate driving a car without an engine. The closest you could get would be to drive it down a suitable hill having knocked it out of gear. We are so accustomed to the (albeit fairly minimal) vibrations from an ICE vehicle that it’s only when they aren’t there that you really notice it.
You can no more equate driving an ICE slowly to driving an EV than you can equate dry slope skiing on a cold day to the experience on snow.
But don't EV's have narrower tyres than a similar ICE - what I was trying to indicate, fwiw, is that the ride in an EV can be worse because of the state of UK roads, fwiw
Serendipitously we have a 3 or 4 km stretch of curving gently downhill main road which it’s possible to glide along out of gear to the next village, about 70 km achievable, nice as it saves on gas but there’s still the road/tyre noise…do EV’s have some feature to lessen this aspect of mechanics.
Casting mind back to EV or dual system cabs in London…again I’m kinda struggling to raise much about the quality of the difference of experience.
Well now snows different depending on temp, weather conditions a dry slopes much more stable in how it feels, performs…great for total newbies to have a couple hours on dry first.
I would think that the width of the tyre plays a negligible role. the height of the walls do, especially if the walls are reinforced to take the weight of the car (run flat).
The only reason I can think of that would make an EV less comfortable than an equivalent ICE on pot-holed roads would be the weight of the car, either because the suspension is firmer or because it bottoms out sooner.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
The i3 has skinny wheels but most EVs have similar wheels/tyres to most ICE cars.
My van has 185/65 15 tyres as standard but is currently on 215/45 17 tyres which are standard fitment to the mk1 Leaf.
No, there’s nothing in an EV to lessen Road/tyre noise but as you’ve noted, without the engine vibration, you feel more like you’re gliding. It’s purely that vibration that’s missing and, on a smooth road (not many in the UK at the moment unfortunately), it feels great.
I think what causes the ride to be poor in some EVs is the weight. I have a Leaf that has a ride that's just about acceptable. A major cause is that it's 1.8 tonnes, versus a petrol Nissan Juke at 1.2 tonnes which rides a lot better. They're not dissimilar cars (other than the powertrain) and both are cheaply-built cars with built-down-to-a-price suspension, which always struggles to control weight. The better the car, the better the suspension (usually) and once you bring in air suspension and the like you can ameliorate the weight to some extent (hence a Phantom at almost 3 tonnes has the most remarkable ride) but it's always a question of cost.
OK, I guess it somewhat depends on what you are used to, seriously the tiny engined Skoda Karoq imho is a real quiet and smooth ride whether gliding down hills or in gear at lower revs, outstanding at its rrp leastways was back when I bought mine….sympathies for the state of your roads if I’m allowed to say that…there’s some atrocious even dangerous ones in parts of Lincs certainly, felt like I imagine driving in Mariupol must feel like, when taking short cuts around the Boston area when last we were in country.
Ah getting to the nitty gritty at last the money…though I was quite surprised that when manufacturer range, true range and cold was under discussion EV owners whether Citroen or JAGG spend levels, that owners of both reported pretty big hits to their range, …that does seem a kick in the conkers.
Why, if it does what you need when you need it to, what’s the problem?
Honestly, your rhetoric is very negative and it’s clear you’re going to pick up on anything to support your opinion. You may not have noticed but almost everyone on here who drives or has driven EVs (even Robdad who was very sceptical) have found all the widely reported problems with EVs to be either a non issue or at most, a minor inconvenience occasionally.
You don’t want an EV and that’s fine, ICE will be around for a fair while yet.
Just want to try and get a warts and all picture is all, wouldn’t be getting one, if we do, via work…
Warts and all is fine if you don’t just focus on the warts side and try to include a few and all bits too.
As for range, no cars achieve the manufacturer claims and all cars use more fuel in the cold, it’s not solely an EV thing. Yes, ICE generally have a greater range (although not always these days) but overkill is overkill, it doesn’t matter whether you have ten times the range you need or just double, it’s still an irrelevance for your usage.
A couple of weeks back I jumped in an Uber at Battersea which turned out to be a fully electric MG of some description. Anyway, chatting to the driver who lives in a 4th floor flat he was saying it needs to be charged everyday cost him an hour of time and between £50 & £60. For that he gets just over 200 miles, his previous car (an Ionic maybe) did over 400 for the same money and took 5 mins to fill.
Apparently charging is a nightmare as many on street chargers are not designed for cars which have the charge port on the OSR, cables are too short, black cabs charge port is NSF. He was forced to go electric as they are the only ones TfL will licence now so all new cabs will be plug in.
All in all I don’t think we was loving plug-in life.
headlights are in demand lol
https://www.reddit.com/gallery/19dtdrs
MG4 charge port is near side rear and both the ZSEV and MG5 have charge ports on the front. Neither should be an issue for a roadside charge point.
His complaint isn’t with the EV, it’s with TFL for making the rules and the charger operators for their pricing structures.
On the flip side, it’s a positive for EVs as he wouldn’t be allowed to do his job if he had an ICE.
Longer charge cables are available to buy if the one supplied with his car isn’t long enough. 8m long enough?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/126291316...mis&media=COPY
I thought it was some fancy aerodynamics until I zoomed in to the photo.
Unless I'm missing something, couldn't he just turn the car around...?
One way street?
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
That is horrific ! Couldn't they have just stolen the wings it would have seemed less bad ?
Stolen for cannabis making
Re the ride in a Tesla, super smooth on the motorway but on London residential streets that have speed bumps you do need to slow down to avoid a jarring experience, whereas with the Velar you could just continue at the usual speed and the suspension would deal with it. Likewise driving up/off curbs in the Tesla is very juddery, not so in the Velar.
But motorways in the Tesla are smoother than the Velar was.
Isn’t that more of an SUV vs saloon car issue more than EV vs ICE? I could have said the same thing with our old VW Golf vs VW Tiguan - both diesels. My Fiesta ST is a bit more jarring than my Cupra Born (both hatchbacks)- but it also handles far better round any bend. It’s also much noisier and takes a lot more driver involvement to get the most from it. The Cupra is almost silent in comparison and almost drives itself really - no gears, feels very heavy, like a limousine in comparison. Neither is necessarily better to drive - but they are very different. As an aside I live in the country and hate SUV’s, tall and wobbly to drive, I can’t think of any speed bumps locally (there are none on my 15 mile drive to work and only 1 set of traffic lights!) and I’ve never found the need to bump up a kerb?!
In praise of the Tesla some twat nearly crashed into the side of me yesterday and when I swerved I took chunk out of the alloys I just paid £360 to fully refurb three weeks ago. Lovely guy refused to give his details so £10 to MIB for the policy number and I have the incident on 4 cameras. Side camera footage was great and a regular dash cam set up wouldn’t have got it.
I also had the TZ bargain global knives put in the boot by the delivery guy because I wasn’t home and they weren’t allowed to a local pickup point.
But the ride is hard.
But it’s mainly cons not pros I am seeing….price, range, faff factor, insurance all worse with an EV…and who really wants to give their own money to Elon or the Chinese…I will keep watching this space though, interested how the situation develops.
Parking in residential areas of London you frequently need to park either fully or partially up on a kerb.
Fair point, I’d forgotten about that element of city life - I can’t remember the last time I even parallel parked tbh!
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