Reply With QuoteApparently in the event of an electric vehicle burning at e.g. The Trafforď Centre I am told the vehicle is covered in foam and left to burn. Obv the area is closed off
No idea but I believe battery fires are particularly hot/intense and difficult to extinguish which then raises different issues.Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers
Apparently in the event of an electric vehicle burning at e.g. The Trafforď Centre I am told the vehicle is covered in foam and left to burn. Obv the area is closed off
Fires are the big worry, not the fact that they catch fire, all cars do but its the speed, intensity and heat that the batteries cause thats the big worry. I wonder how long it will take for the buildings insurance companies to stipulate no EVs in the car parks.
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Where did you buy yours?
The most recent big car park fire was started by a liquid fuelled car;
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news...used-14199555#
A link from that article is one from fire services that stated how a sprinkler system would have stopped the fire spreading, running fuel fires being a factor.
Yes, an EV battery self combusting burns hotter and longer, and fuels its own fire from the composition of the battery, but theres no liquid fuel to spread so its quite localised, and sprinklers would still limit the fire spread beyond immediately adjacent vehicles, which if theyre liquid fuelled will help spread it further and more quickly.
The question perhaps should be how long it should take before building insurers insist on fire suppression equipment in such locations?
Interesting how there seems to be a pushback against electric cars. If you read certain press the Chinese are going to block our roads by turning cars off and in the US people are complaing Detroit is going to be jobless. You Tube clip of a Tesla behind a convoy of trucks in a move to block him. The exhaust thing is 'rolling coal' worth a Google about the court case.
Itll pass, its the usual Luddite push back against any new disruptive technology.
Yes, theres a definite movement that seem to fear alternative forms of propulsion, and as you say certain elements of the press are pushing and syndicating every negative story. It gets the clicks as well, but I think its really disappointing that such stuff seems to be so divisive, but such is the way of things these days.
Every topic seems to be capable of being boiled down erroneously to a black or white/left or right issue, where everybody is on transmit and nobody is on receive, whereas it should be much more nuanced than that.
Anyway, this is the G&D, so without wishing to stray into politics, lets just say enjoy whatever it is you drive, whilst we still can.
Whether the U.K. goes a different way to the rest of the world re fossil fuel car bans, its clear the direction of travel for most of the worlds major motor manufacturers, along with China, involves electrification. They wont make cars just for our market, and we dont make many for ourselves.
Dragon not bearpit, you might want to remove that one
Happening WAY too often these days.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Anyone got had or tried a BMW i4?
Ive ordered a Defender 90 but insurance costs are rising ridiculously and coupled with being rogered on PAYE since a promotion at work Im now debating cancelling and getting a company car. Best choices I have are the i4 or Polestar 2. I really like both but favour the i4 at the moment. Also have Tesla options but not long range annoyingly.
Still not sure an electric car suits me but the two factors above are pushing me that way.
I've had an i4 since June last year.
Nothing to complain about at all really.
Odd bits on the iDrive thing but nothing a quick reset of the system won't solve - these are just connectivity things with my Samsung and the cure was holding down ghe button for 10 seconds!
Range shows at about 290 but realistically I've driven to Manchester airport and back on a single charge with 24% battery left. For me that's a 260+ round trip.
The car drives well, has a good turn of pace and is comfortable.
I'd have another for sure.
It was a choice between Skoda iVrs Coupe (dodged a bullet there as the performance was a bit over estimated by Skoda), a Polestar 2 which I like but the range is not as good (my MD has one and daren't try Manchester and back) and a Volvo C40 which I really liked but Volvo cancelled the order days before production was due to start (glad about that too as the battery is the same as the Polestar 2 I think).
Im thinking similar. We have an electric only scheme via work
Thanks a lot. Is that the 40 or 35 version? Seems pretty good that and glad to know youd have another
I gather the MY24 Polestars are a lot better range. A few already have them at work and getting decent returns. I really like the i4 tho but having had Volvos previously the Polestar does interest me.
Unfortunately, the luddites in USA or anywhere else can find context in the Ukrainian drone use of Chinese made drones. Apparently the drones need new firmware(?)/hacking(?) before the UA can deploy any new drone because the factory chip allows other people to lock on to your position.
I saw the Telegraph headline today that China may be spying on us via electric vehicles, is there any barrel that wont be scraped in an attempt to discredit EVs?! :-D
It reminded me of the widely reported story from a couple years ago where China was banning Teslas from entering some military bases and housing compounds due to spying risks. What has the world become.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-t...-idUSKBN2BB18R
I have the 40 M Sport - standard company car job!
My MD likes his Polestar but is not so sold on the vegan interior materials a couple of years in.
Oddly his next car will be a Kia EV6 - top spec, fast thing.
I'm not a fan of the looks - tge side profile doesn't flow for me.
Just in case my first reply wasn't clear - I can get 300+ miles from a full charge which was always my tipping point.
Thanks again. That range is my goal too.
I do like the EV6 myself. Different and marmite but I like it. Its gone from our scheme tho now - which seems to change daily!
Will have a really good think this week.
But on a similar vein - this occured in the '60s with the advent of the photocopier:
https://gigazine.net/gsc_news/en/202...xerox-machine/
My only gripe with BEV is the weight, and the subsequent wear and tear on my drives, and public roads.
I'm waiting for hydrogen fuel cell motors to come on stream and then I'll consider ditching the Civic.
Unless Citroen actually make the Oli.
The weight difference between a BEV and its ICE equivalent is around 10%, less than people think. Check out BMW x5 versus iX, Audi Q8 versus Q8 e-tron etc. All modern cars have got very heavy.
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In my research I have found that the insurance premiums are much higher for an EV than an ICE - presumably higher repair costs / still a relatively unknown for the insurance companies so they're playing cautious?
By way of example my BMW 520D is is 300 for the year a Kia EV6 best quote 800
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Thatll be a long wait I think
You're going to be waiting for a very long time indeed, sad to say. The technology works perfectly well, but there's no practical way of generating the hydrogen needed without massively increasing electricity production. To give an idea, you need around 50kWh to produce 1kg of hydrogen. That'll get you around 60 miles - my old Nissan Leaf will do around 200 miles on the same amount of energy (and that's before you factor in the transport costs of hydrogen).
In certain circumstances hydrogen would be an excellent choice - earthmoving equipment (Bamford are pushing this) is a great example where 24/7 running is needed, allied to high power consumption and often a lack of access to a high-power charging network - but I don't think it's for general use.
I observe while holidaying in Sicily the huge amount of Chinese brand EVs. My 15 year old son informs me that they are highly price competitive versus the well known brands. Aesthetically they look nice, and I can imagine that they will disrupt the market when they reach the UK shores. The smaller - smart car size - ones look particularly attractive for short town journeys.
The usual poppycock, why does hydrogen have to be generated?
https://hydrogen-central.com/first-k...-hydrogen-gas/
https://www.euractiv.com/section/ene...und-in-france/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...hite-hydrogen/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohn...ogic-hydrogen/
Etc.
Gosh. Youve done some Googling
Now tell me how you get that productionised and replace all the fuel infrastructure within the next 15-20 years? If you think thats feasible, I have a bridge to sell you.
How will they get to thatfracking/drilling?
No, one 'Google' will find plenty of hits.
If we can find all this clean hydrogen that theoretically lurks beneath us, then it sounds very promising in meeting some of the worlds energy needs.
Whilst Hydrogen doesnt produce CO2 when combusted, it does produce plenty of NOx, so probably rules it out as a road fuel to power the 323.8 Billion road miles driven in the UK each year.
This shouldnt be an either or debate, clean Hydrogen does have a role to play, just as electrically powered passenger cars do as well.
Why would it be combusted (in vehicles)? Use in a fuel cell.
Just going on the JCB example mentioned earlier, hydrogen fuelled engines are attractive to some sectors for obvious reasons.
Hydrogen power stations powered by genuinely green hydrogen sounds like a good thing, but scaling up hydrogen fuel cell production for vehicles faces the same challenges as scaling up EV battery production. Producing the fuel cell stacks is currently very expensive, not to mention the infrastructure that will need to be built for Hydrogen fuel storage, distribution and sale.
That said, if we can start to extract genuine natural occurring hydrogen, and the costs of that extraction and distribution arent prohibitive, then I can see it being a part of the future landscape.
Anything that can lessen the impact of the 887 million miles driven each day in the UK has got to be worth doing.
The JCB example won't make much impact on the 887 million miles you mention.
If scaling up fuel cell production faces the same challenge as EV battery production the latter has been done so hardly impossible. As for the cost of fuel cells - a few fuel cell cars already exist and are of similar price to a top of the range Tesla and will only fall.
Anyway I'm out, only putting forward the fact that hydrogen doesn't have to be prohibitively more expensive than electricity to produce (as is always said in these threads, including by yourself...).
(BTW, it's 'white', not 'green' hydrogen!)
Nio will be worth a look when they arrive next year
The JCB example or any other hydrogen engine wont, thats correct, which is why BEVs are on the table as a passenger car option.
Perhaps a waste of my time, as youre out apparently, but whatever the colour of hydrogen, its use probably isnt destined for fuel cells in passenger cars. White hydrogen is potentially much too valuable for that, a bit like oil and gas now.
White hydrogens biggest problem is that blue hydrogen cracked from gas is so cheap, but its also not the answer.
Our future energy requirements will no doubt be met with a mix of solutions, but hydrogen doesnt look like its going to be the major solution for passenger cars some hope it will be. Especially as we havent found much of this white hydrogen yet
https://cleantechnica.com/2023/08/07...lean-fuel/amp/
I had a good look at some Nios when I was in Norway recently, some of the cars are quite good looking and they seem to be well screwed together.
The battery swap stations look like a good thing for those who dont like waiting even 20 mins for recharging.
https://youtu.be/1_lUwYFE-CY
I ventured that to my nephew (he is well informed on EVs) and he pointed out that: That means much higher battery manufacture than required for the number of vehicles.
Any one remember spare phone and laptop batteries before the tech improved?
Im pretty sure battery swapping is a dead end - its too restrictive in terms of vehicle design and manufacturer specific requirements. Improvements in battery tech in terms of range/capacity and charging speed is what will be required.
Im sure theres some maths somewhere that calculates the optimum number of spare batteries required to support a given number of vehicles, but having a reliable and quick way to do so may lead to smaller batteries being fitted to vehicles in the first place. Id much rather sweat an asset, and go with a smaller battery (with the benefits of less weight etc) with the knowledge I had access to ubiquitous charging and/or battery swapping.
As it is, I carry a 77kWh battery around with me even when I dont need to. There are pros and cons to each approach.
Im not sure theres going to be a quantum leap in battery tech, but it definitely should carry on improving. My old e-Golf had a 35kWh battery, max 40kW recharge speed, and had a realistic range of around 125 miles. My newer ID.4 has an 82kWh battery, 175kW recharge speed, and 250 miles. Ok, theyre different sized and performance vehicles, but both did my 20 mile round trip to the supermarket and got me to work and back each day just fine. The ID.4 is way more usable on long runs though, I was in Scotland again last week with it, and charging just wasnt an issue at all.
Im not bothered by battery swapping either, but for others it removes a perceived problem they may have about long journeys. Personally, I dont want to be tied to a service provision like a battery swap centre, I like being able to juice up at home and then only use rapids on beyond return range journeys. For those without home charging though, getting a batter swapped out whilst you do your weekly swap may be a great solution for them.
For cars maybe but for wagons it could bing some usability, Id rather have a 45 minute brew after 4 1/2 hours driving while someone changes the batteries than having to sit for hours charging an artic battery pack up.
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That's probably a more sensible use - for anything needing significant up time or for load hauling, charging in situ radically reduces their effectiveness. Tractor units could easily have a large (2 tonne+) battery slotted in where the engine/transmission currently sits and it would be much easier to standardise a size.
No idea on the cost, mind you.
I got something pop up in my YT feed about this a few weeks back, theres a truck company down in NZ who do battery swaps in about 6 mins.
Quite interesting, as are the electric bucket loaders they build. At work weve just purchased some electric ground power units for the aircraft, they use re-purposed EV car batteries (Nissan Leaf in this instance) which is a good example of a second life for old EV car packs, and were getting some electric weapon loaders as well, nothing new I suppose as fork lift trucks have been electric for decades.
Electrification is happening everywhere even whilst we still talk about whether passenger EVs are viable here on a watch forum! :-)
https://youtu.be/rIh_iaxm3cc
As I said, I'll wait.
Both my ICE cars have v. low mileage for their age.
Fiesta 22000mls 2008 plate.
Civic 32000mks 2016 plate.
They'll last me for a good time yet.
The logistics would be the first killer, but the speed and cost would offset that. The place where I fill up every day does at least 30 wagons every 15 minutes. It would need someone to mandate a standard that every manufacturer had to follow.
Theres a bit of scaremongering in the US about the weight of the drivetrain impacting the load carrying ability and having to double the amount of vehicles and drivers required. But with anything new, people will find any excuse to find faults.
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A lot of the vehicles on the Fremantle Highway are unharmed after the fire. Including a batch of EVs. So, if theres a discount on German EVs somewhere near you, the you know what to expect
Yeh but if you ran out of power it would be nice to be able to pop them out, reseat them and give them a little bit of a roll to get you a few more miles.
Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH
Agreed, that is certainly a good point and a viable use case.
The adverse economic winds and the sudden resurgence of anti-environmental feeling from the government has had one positive impact - you can now get an electric car from stock (certainly Tesla, VW, Ford, haven't looked at others) and at 0% finance - the manufacturers are having to treat them like any other automotive product and actually sell them rather than just take orders.
That's good for consumers in terms of pricing and specification, plus it should also drive the manufacturers to keep pushing the range further - I can't think that anyone would realistically need or use a driving range beyond 500 miles (because at some point along the way you'd have to stop!), but a 400-mile range would be good so that you could drive, say, 250 miles without a break (or just a minimal coffee/loo-break) and still have a decent amount of charge left at the end.
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