Electric cars-got to be a viable option now?

[Franky Four Fingers]

I entirely agree. My point was that I don’t think the priority for EV is in improving efficiency, considering how high it is compared to ICE.

I think it will a huge selling point, ok it may not potentially mean a huge increase in the overall motor efficiency but development will see lighter, more compact units. New materials etc which will give that extra bit
My point originally ( where this has come from) is that it would seem that RA feels it’s not worth it, and to stop now so early in to this tech seems silly considering where it’s gone in such a short time


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[Saint-Just]

I have answered earlier on my reading of Rowan’s piece, and why I understood it differently.
I agree with him that cars (= batteries) need to be lighter. That in itself will improve range. The battery technology itself must find a better alternative to Lithium because of the cost (monetary and ecological) and the limited number ( and the identity) of suppliers.
In other words, EV in 10 years time will be very different from what they are today. The market itself will be vastly different too, and it’s likely our use will have changed significantly too.

[Dave+63]

Back in 2013 you could only really buy a Leaf, a Zoe or an i3 with a maximum battery size of 24kwhr and range if about 80 miles.*

Things have certainly progressed since then.


* There were a few other EVs about but really nothing to get excited about unless you had £100k to buy a Tesla Roadster.

The first really useable EV, the Tesla model S wasn’t on sale until 2014.

[Franky Four Fingers]

https://fb.watch/l0xTJVhe-p/
Just as well they wont improve efficiency in any way

[noTAGlove]

My new fancy milk float arrived today. My first new car in 13.5 years.

I didn’t bother to test drive any electric cars and the first time I drove one was today after it was delivered.

First impression is it is like driving a dodgem car at the fair.

[paule23]

Back in 2013 you could only really buy a Leaf, a Zoe or an i3 with a maximum battery size of 24kwhr and range if about 80 miles.*

Things have certainly progressed since then.


* There were a few other EVs about but really nothing to get excited about unless you had £100k to buy a Tesla Roadster.

The first really useable EV, the Tesla model S wasn’t on sale until 2014.

My first EV was an i3, followed by the very rare Merc B250e, 100 mile range and no rapid charging!

My lease is up for renewal early next year and the options available now are brilliant compared with 5 years ago. Most have 250 mile range as standard, I’m spoilt for choice.

[gunner]

My new fancy milk float arrived today. My first new car in 13.5 years.

I didn’t bother to test drive any electric cars and the first time I drove one was today after it was delivered.

First impression is it is like driving a dodgem car at the fair.

I'd be interested to know how you find it but I found it an easy first EV to get used to.

Mine's currently topping up from the solar charged battery.

[Dave+63]

My first EV was an i3, followed by the very rare Merc B250e, 100 mile range and no rapid charging!

My lease is up for renewal early next year and the options available now are brilliant compared with 5 years ago. Most have 250 mile range as standard, I’m spoilt for choice.

It was a real shame that the B250e didn’t have rapid charging, I reckon it would have sold like hot cakes if it had.

[noTAGlove]

I'd be interested to know how you find it but I found it an easy first EV to get used to.

Mine's currently topping up from the solar charged battery.

I seem to remember from a photo you have one of these. Same colour but in the dual motor mental acceleration spec.

Mine is the single motor but seems plenty fast enough for this old fart. Loving the new car smell.

Took it out for a spin tonight. Regen braking takes a little time to get used to, but I like it. One foot driving.

It may as well be a van as the rear window visibility is almost non existent. Door sides are very high too. But, as for driving it couldn’t be any easier. It could be a fun fair ride with one pedal.

I am hoping we can get our camping gear for two in the car with the rear seats folded as we have traded down from a V70 (anyone want to buy one, R-Design, Glacier Blue, 75k miles, FSH?)

Missus had a go too. She decided for whatever reason that as there was no clutch she would left foot brake. Not on purpose, but just because the pedal set up was strange to her. WTF. Good job the seat belts were on and no cars were behind us.

I give it a couple of days before she shags the diamond cut alloys.

[gunner]

The dual motor still amuses the kids and makes the wife feel nauseated...

Tried the one foot driving option for about 20 minutes. Not a fan, especially when it's driven in rotation with the automatic XC90.

Agreed on the rear visibility though, I guess the XC40 is a bit better for that.

[Mr Curta]

I got used to the one foot driving thing pretty quickly. Obviously increases the range but also means that you rarely use the brakes so their life is greatly increased. The performance still blows me away, even a 'basic' EV shifts like a hot-hatch and the instant acceleration to overtake is a joy. Plugging in is a ten second a doddle, really don't miss trips to fuel stations and mucking around with diesel splashed pumps and card payment machines.

Stats for the first year of driving an EV - 18,000 miles covered at an average of 3.7 miles per kWh across the seasons. The annual service was £159 which seemed a bit high for something with so few moving parts compared to an ICE but is what it is and they did at least throw in a wash and hoover. Almost all charging has been at home or work with a fair chunk coming from renewables at an average cost of less than 8p per kWH. There are currently around 40 'top-up' chargers at work and most of the cars I park amongst are in the sub £30k bracket, many bought second or third-hand in the region of £15k - £20k. It's certainly viable for us.

[noTAGlove]

I guess the XC40 is a bit better for that.

Yep. I would have gone for one of those if they weren’t £100 pcm more expensive on the work salary sacrifice scheme.

The sloping back of the C40 looks a bit cooler, but is a bit of a design gimmick and definitely reduces the practicality.

That said our kids are older now, so no need for the boot space.

[gunner]

I got used to the one foot driving thing pretty quickly. Obviously increases the range but also means that you rarely use the brakes so their life is greatly increased. The performance still blows me away, even a 'basic' EV shifts like a hot-hatch and the instant acceleration to overtake is a joy. Plugging in is a ten second a doddle, really don't miss trips to fuel stations and mucking around with diesel splashed pumps and card payment machines.

Stats for the first year of driving an EV - 18,000 miles covered at an average of 3.7 miles per kWh across the seasons. The annual service was £159 which seemed a bit high for something with so few moving parts compared to an ICE but is what it is and they did at least throw in a wash and hoover. Almost all charging has been at home or work with a fair chunk coming from renewables at an average cost of less than 8p per kWH. There are currently around 40 'top-up' chargers at work and most of the cars I park amongst are in the sub £30k bracket, many bought second or third-hand in the region of £15k - £20k. It's certainly viable for us.

Does the one foot driving actually increase the range? Mine uses regenerative braking with the brake pedal anyway so I thought it was just a difference in control?

Not sure I'll be hitting 3.7 miles per kWh over the full year (although average is improving all the time in the warmer weather) but I could have gone for the FWD if I wanted better economy. Less of an issue for me as charging has been free since the solar went in a few months ago.

[ryanb741]

Tesla Model Y currently available at £369 pm including VAT on a personal lease. That's an excellent deal although I assume that will be 5k miles per annum

[wileeeeeey]

With Tesla depreciation being faster than a Plaid Model S leasing is probably the better option.

[Boss13]

Tesla Model Y currently available at £369 pm including VAT on a personal lease. That's an excellent deal although I assume that will be 5k miles per annum

That is a bargin price. Assume it is also a large deposit at that price?

[ryanb741]

That is a bargin price. Assume it is also a large deposit at that price?

9 months up front

[paule23]

Does the one foot driving actually increase the range? Mine uses regenerative braking with the brake pedal anyway so I thought it was just a difference in control?

Not sure I'll be hitting 3.7 miles per kWh over the full year (although average is improving all the time in the warmer weather) but I could have gone for the FWD if I wanted better economy. Less of an issue for me as charging has been free since the solar went in a few months ago.

In theory yes, if you apply the brake pedal there will still be a regenerative braking effect to charge the battery, but you will also lose energy in heat through the brake pad. The difference won’t be a lot but there is a small gain from not using the brake pedal.

[wileeeeeey]

One foot driving with default regen also saves your brake discs. Tesla told me their brake discs only get 30% of the typical wear of an ICE car so last approx 3x longer.

I think I’ve used the back seat in my Tesla a max of 5 or 6 times but somehow the bum part has become unclipped and won’t clip back in so time to call them out again.

[gunner]

In theory yes, if you apply the brake pedal there will still be a regenerative braking effect to charge the battery, but you will also lose energy in heat through the brake pad. The difference won’t be a lot but there is a small gain from not using the brake pedal.

I don't think the actual brakes kick in initially and only do so if the regen isn't slowing enough.

One foot driving with default regen also saves your brake discs. Tesla told me their brake discs only get 30% of the typical wear of an ICE car so last approx 3x longer.

Regen saves your brake discs but I don't see how the one foot driving makes a difference.

[Dave+63]

Well I can say with absolute certainty that, when pressing the brake pedal on my van, the brakes only kick in after maximum regen has been reached.

I just drive mine like a normal auto but try to keep my braking below maximum regen.

And with a 24kwhr battery and range of under 70 miles, the more I can put back into the battery, the better!

[wileeeeeey]

I don't think the actual brakes kick in initially and only do so if the regen isn't slowing enough.



Regen saves your brake discs but I don't see how the one foot driving makes a difference.

Sorry, I misunderstood one foot driving with one pedal

[gunner]

Sorry, I misunderstood one foot driving with one pedal

Sorry, I meant one pedal.

[noTAGlove]

I get 1 year Ionity ultra-rapid charging for 35p/kWh with the new Volvo.

That is about half the current normal rate so will help with road trips around the country when I need to charge at motorway services.

[noTAGlove]

The dual motor still amuses the kids and makes the wife feel nauseated...

The single motor goes like a scolded cat between 0-30 mph. Proper push back in the seat stuff.

The dual motor must rearrange your internal organs.

[Mr Curta]

Does the one foot driving actually increase the range? Mine uses regenerative braking with the brake pedal anyway so I thought it was just a difference in control?

I get around 25% regenerated energy with the single e-pedal control and about 20% with standard braking, which aligns pretty much with the results of this study:

https://link.springer.com/content/pd...019-0546-x.pdf

[gunner]

Interesting. I'd simplistically assumed they had the same result, in line with Dave+63's post.

Didn't particularly like the feel of it anyway and the wife definitely didn't.

[wileeeeeey]

Sorry, I meant one pedal.

I meant that >90% of the time I only use one pedal and don’t touch the brake. I only touch the brake if I need to which is rarely. Even approaching junctions one pedal is good enough.

[Dave+63]

Interesting. I'd simplistically assumed they had the same result, in line with Dave+63's post.

Didn't particularly like the feel of it anyway and the wife definitely didn't.

I get about 32% regen in the van and drive it in minimum regen mode but Knick it into B mode when slowing down and then use the brakes as normal.

In my daughters MG, I always shift into minimum regen before I set off and use the car normally.

I’ve driven both the MG and my brothers Model X and find the level of regen on the throttle pedal too high for my liking.

I’m sure I’d soon get used to one pedal driving if I was doing it regularly though.

[Franky Four Fingers]

BBC1 8pm this evening: Electric cars, is it time to buy?


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[reggie747]

BBC1 8pm this evening: Electric cars, is it time to buy?

Just watched that from start to finish and my view based on what I saw was that anyone who had one thought it was a good idea.
Those that never weren't exactly in favour of it.

Once again, lagging behind others in rolling out charging options by a government that hasn't properly thought out the whole deal.
This nothing new though I guess, they're all too busy making out what they can reap for themselves and their close allies,

It highlighted the "average 40 grand" for a new car purchase and comment was "how many people are in that affordability boat".
The the answer is the minority.....the majority are most definitely not.

Not time to buy, from me. I can't afford it !!!

[wileeeeeey]

Not time to buy, from me. I can't afford it !!!

Get some barbours and tactical dildos on SC then! Chop chop!

[Franky Four Fingers]

Just watched that from start to finish and my view based on what I saw was that anyone who had one thought it was a good idea.
Those that never weren't exactly in favour of it.

Once again, lagging behind others in rolling out charging options by a government that hasn't properly thought out the whole deal.
This nothing new though I guess, they're all too busy making out what they can reap for themselves and their close allies,

It highlighted the "average 40 grand" for a new car purchase and comment was "how many people are in that affordability boat".
The the answer is the minority.....the majority are most definitely not.

Not time to buy, from me. I can't afford it !!!

Bit behind you on catch-up but yes id agree with you. Most that have them like them and those that don't have them are either unsure or totally not interested.
Bit of a non programme really i thought.

[Kingstepper]

No surprise really - people who think they’re a good idea buy them (and expectations are met), people who don’t probably won’t.

[reggie747]

No surprise really - people who think they’re a good idea buy them (and expectations are met), people who don’t probably won’t.

Genuine question - Do you have one ?

[Tooks]

I’m afraid the programme lost all credibility for me with the narrative of only taking on 38 miles in an hour at the 22kW AC Unit, whilst drawing max 11kW via the ID Buzz charger, but whilst talking about rapid charging speeds. He wasn’t plugged into a Rapid Charger though, had he been he’d have got the same 38 miles in max 12 mins, or 4 mins at the vans max charge rate on a suitable rapid.

It’s like talking about a cars top speed whilst driving in a 20 zone, or rail travel times whilst stopped at a station.

A mistake? Journalistic license? Or just misleading?

It wasn’t a total hatchet job, but neither was it as balanced as it could have been.

[Kingstepper]

Genuine question - Do you have one ?

Why, what impression do I give?

[reggie747]

Why, what impression do I give?

You don't, I'm just curious that's all

[reggie747]

I’m afraid the programme lost all credibility for me with the narrative of only taking on 38 miles in an hour at the 22kW AC Unit, whilst drawing max 11kW via the ID Buzz charger, but whilst talking about rapid charging speeds. He wasn’t plugged into a Rapid Charger though, had he been he’d have got the same 38 miles in max 12 mins, or 4 mins at the vans max charge rate on a suitable rapid.

It’s like talking about a cars top speed whilst driving in a 20 zone, or rail travel times whilst stopped at a station.

A mistake? Journalistic license? Or just misleading?

It wasn’t a total hatchet job, but neither was it as balanced as it could have been.

I'm sure he said he wasn't at a rapid charger when he drew 38 miles in the hour. He did move on to a rapid charger later IIRC but I could be wrong.
Was he not highlighting that with a slow charger....shit was slow but obvs. rapid charging was the better option by far.
It was about availability at where he was at the time and it bemoaned the slow roll out or lack of chargers, rapid or otherwise, that there are (or rather....are not).

Given that, by far and away, you're THE biggest proponent of leccy cars on the whole of TZ, I was expecting a response form you at some stage... Thank you.

[Kingstepper]

You don't, I'm just curious that's all

Ok, strange you’re curious about me in particular but I don’t have one.

[reggie747]

Ok, strange you’re curious about me in particular but I don’t have one.

No, really, it was just a genuine question.

[Tooks]

I'm sure he said he wasn't at a rapid charger when he drew 38 miles in the hour. He did move on to a rapid charger later IIRC but I could be wrong.
Was he not highlighting that with a slow charger....shit was slow but obvs. rapid charging was the better option by far.
It was about availability at where he was at the time and it bemoaned the slow roll out or lack of chargers, rapid or otherwise, that there are (or rather....are not).

Given that, by far and away, you're THE biggest proponent of leccy cars on the whole of TZ, I was expecting a response form you at some stage... Thank you.

Well, as somebody with 35 years of driving under my belt, the last 9 years of that driving electric as well as ICE vehicles, I do feel like I’ve got something to add, or would you prefer only negative EV opinions allowed?

I restrict my comments to EV threads, you won’t find me on the ‘what MX-5 should I buy’ or ‘Look at my supercar that I drive’ threads telling everybody they purchased the wrong car etc either. ;-)

Everybody agrees, even you, that we need more EV chargers of all sorts, it’s a non argument. He also praised the speed of charging when he was on a rapid.

You don’t do long journeys using destination or ‘fast’ chargers, unless for some perverse reason you want to. It would be like refuelling a petrol car with a thimble from a bucket, time consuming.

As somebody who drives 30k electric miles a year, and makes use of the public rapid charging network every week, I can say hand on heart that electric cars are a viable means of transport for me. If they work for me with those mileages, they’ll work for an awful lot more people as well. That’s not in a Tesla either by the way.

I’m not wedded to EVs, I’d move to alternative means of propulsion if it was just as clean, convenient and less polluting if and when it’s available.

I really don’t care what others drive, I love cars and I’m not alone in that on here, but I do care when people post opinion as fact. It’s not my job to convince anybody that EVs are better, they are for me but accept that they might not be for others. I wish it were a two way street is all.

[reggie747]

Well, as somebody with 35 years of driving under my belt, the last 9 years of that driving electric as well as ICE vehicles, I do feel like I’ve got something to add, or would you prefer only negative EV opinions allowed?

I restrict my comments to EV threads, you won’t find me on the ‘what MX-5 should I buy’ or ‘Look at my supercar that I drive’ threads telling everybody they purchased the wrong car etc either. ;-)

Everybody agrees, even you, that we need more EV chargers of all sorts, it’s a non argument. He also praised the speed of charging when he was on a rapid.

You don’t do long journeys using destination or ‘fast’ chargers, unless for some perverse reason you want to. It would be like refuelling a petrol car with a thimble from a bucket, time consuming.

As somebody who drives 30k electric miles a year, and makes use of the public rapid charging network every week, I can say hand on heart that electric cars are a viable means of transport for me. If they work for me with those mileages, they’ll work for an awful lot more people as well. That’s not in a Tesla either by the way.

I’m not wedded to EVs, I’d move to alternative means of propulsion if it was just as clean, convenient and less polluting if and when it’s available.

I really don’t care what others drive, I love cars and I’m not alone in that on here, but I do care when people post opinion as fact. It’s not my job to convince anybody that EVs are better, they are for me but accept that they might not be for others. I wish it were a two way street is all.

Tooks, I'm not adverse to your life transport choices, I can assure you. Go for it if it fits your lifestyle.
What I disagree with is the "this will be the saviour of our planet bullshit" which I'm not necessarily hearing from you full throttle so I'm cool man...

[Tooks]

Tooks, I'm not adverse to your life transport choices, I can assure you. Go for it if it fits your lifestyle.
What I disagree with is the "this will be the saviour of our planet bullshit" which I'm not necessarily hearing from you full throttle so I'm cool man...

Yeah, cool here too.

The EVs saving the planet thing grinds my gears as well, for what it’s worth!

[Vanguard]

I drive a Taycan Turbo and it's one of the best cars I've ever owned, 670bhp and extremely comfortable as well.

Costs about £7.00 to fill it up which gives about 200-250 miles depending on how you drive it

[reggie747]

I drive a Taycan Turbo and it's one of the best cars I've ever owned, 670bhp and extremely comfortable as well.

Costs about £7.00 to fill it up which gives about 200-250 miles depending on how you drive it

That sounds absolutely fantastic !!
A quick look suggests it's also potentially North of 125 grand.
That doesn't sound so fantastic...

[Dave+63]

That sounds absolutely fantastic !!
A quick look suggests it's also potentially North of 125 grand.
That doesn't sound so fantastic...

£125,000 is about the starting price of the cheapest 2023 911 on Autotrader too.

[reggie747]

£125,000 is about the starting price of the cheapest 2023 911 on Autotrader too.

Perhaps true ...but we don't all wanna be scooting round in 911's though.....how about something let's say ...more commonplace ? 🤔

[Vanguard]

I'd rather have my Taycan than any 911, it's more refined and comfortable which I value more than outright handling these days

[jaytip]

Perhaps true ...but we don't all wanna be scooting round in 911's though.....how about something let's say ...more commonplace ? 🤔

Here ya go. Bought by me just over a month ago for less than a new basic Honda Civic.
It’s 1.5 year old and will give me nigh on 250 miles to a full charge in this weather.