Electric cars-got to be a viable option now?

[Dave+63]

It's a Shitron wadda you expect.

Was the pheasant worth eating though?

IIRC there´s a gov. subsidy here that brings the Dacia Spring down to 12k euro.

£16k in the uk and comes with a 26.8kwhr battery so midway between the 24 and 30kwhr mk1 Leafs.

Range should be about 100 miles which would suit an awful lot of people as a second car or commuter.

It’s only hit a 48kw motor (the Leaf is 80kw) so may be a bit underpowered.

I’d be inclined to spend my £16k on something a little older, more powerful and with a bigger battery but I’m sure it will sell like hot cakes.

[Passenger]

£16k in the uk and comes with a 26.8kwhr battery so midway between the 24 and 30kwhr mk1 Leafs.

Range should be about 100 miles which would suit an awful lot of people as a second car or commuter.

It’s only hit a 48kw motor (the Leaf is 80kw) so may be a bit underpowered.

I’d be inclined to spend my £16k on something a little older, more powerful and with a bigger battery but I’m sure it will sell like hot cakes.

I´d be inclined towards the same view if occupying the same boat...I reckon at sub 12 k euro...11590 euro via the Moves 111 subsidy apparently, so wassat sub 10k english money, it´s probably a decent- attractive proposition if you don´t do a whole lotta miles, content to pootle. Know several people who are happy with their conventionally powered Dacia Dusters fwiw...though it´s true we don´t get much- any rain here!

Problem for a lotta spaniards will be they live vertically in the cities, not many with drives.

[Dave+63]

I´d be inclined towards the same view if occupying the same boat...I reckon at sub 12 k euro...11590 euro via the Moves 111 subsidy apparently, so wassat sub 10k english money, it´s probably a decent- attractive proposition if you don´t do a whole lotta miles, content to pootle.

Problem for a lotta spaniards will be they live vertically in the cities, not many with drives.

That’s about £10k so definitely cheap.

It’s not just in the cities where the Spanish live vertically, it’s even in small towns (or is where I used to live at least). Most apartments do have parking spaces in ground or underground parking so it may be possible to fit chargers into each apartments parking bay. It would certainly take a lot of retro fitting but if the Spanish government are any better than our shower, could be incorporated into new builds going forward.

[Franky Four Fingers]

My Cupra Born is in the garage at present - having a braking sensor refitted and calibrated after my wife ran over a pheasant the other week. The loan car is a Citroen C3, which has served to remind me how agricultural, slow, rattly and just plain old fashioned and nasty a cheaper ICE vehicle can be - especially those of a French flavour! There’s no way I’d ever buy one in 2024, having coincidentally seen the Dacia Spring is being launched in the uk for under £20k brand new. The Citroen has been a revelation, awful gearbox and totally gutless engine it requires my full concentration just to get the thing to pull out of a junction when the engine is cold, and the hill start I had to perform the other day was horrendous. And this from somebody whose second car is a manual petrol car so I’m hardly inexperienced. Those who vilify EV’s need to drive them back to back with a supposedly modern ICE vehicle - I think the cheaper end of the market, which now seems to be developing fast demonstrates the differences even more than the luxury sector.

I think it’s pretty amazing how you've gone almost full circle on EV’s. I remember in the early days you were very dubious of them, I think you’ve demonstrated very well how most people will go. Chap i worked with is anti EV until he looked at a creaking noise on a Model 3 last week. He had to collect it and drive it in…hes now looking at them.

[RobDad]

I think it’s pretty amazing how you've gone almost full circle on EV’s. I remember in the early days you were very dubious of them, I think you’ve demonstrated very well how most people will go. Chap i worked with is anti EV until he looked at a creaking noise on a Model 3 last week. He had to collect it and drive it in…hes now looking at them.

I’ve been fairly amazed too - although tbh I’m not the curmudgeon in real life that I may come across as sometimes on this forum!
There’s nothing like taking the leap and living with an EV for a few weeks or months to see how a few adjustments to your habits are actually much easier than expected. Many people seem to have decided EV’s are awful for some totally illogical reason, and in my circumstances there’s nothing about an EV to dislike. Very cheap to run (once purchased) and very easy to drive. If I did a daily commute which required charging en route, or didn’t have a home charger I still don’t think I’d make the leap. But that’s an informed view, not a Daily Mail headline!
The next few years - when affordable EV’s emerge - will be really interesting imho. I think a lot of the ire has been aimed at the luxury/exclusive stance and high price of almost all the earliest EV’s available. With the potential of sub-£20k new options arriving it’ll really shake things up - especially as I suspect many of the naysayers out there won’t trust a used battery powered vehicle, but might be more inclined with a new car warranty in place.

[Franky Four Fingers]

I’ve been fairly amazed too - although tbh I’m not the curmudgeon in real life that I may come across as sometimes on this forum!
There’s nothing like taking the leap and living with an EV for a few weeks or months to see how a few adjustments to your habits are actually much easier than expected. Many people seem to have decided EV’s are awful for some totally illogical reason, and in my circumstances there’s nothing about an EV to dislike. Very cheap to run (once purchased) and very easy to drive. If I did a daily commute which required charging en route, or didn’t have a home charger I still don’t think I’d make the leap. But that’s an informed view, not a Daily Mail headline!
The next few years - when affordable EV’s emerge - will be really interesting imho. I think a lot of the ire has been aimed at the luxury/exclusive stance and high price of almost all the earliest EV’s available. With the potential of sub-£20k new options arriving it’ll really shake things up - especially as I suspect many of the naysayers out there won’t trust a used battery powered vehicle, but might be more inclined with a new car warranty in place.

I think the 2nd hand price drop of a lot of EVs will probably help the market as it puts them in the reaches of more people. Also the price drop of energy in April may help the market? Turbulent times for all EVs and who knows where itll end up.

[Matt8500]

After nearly 3 years with an i3, we have just swapped for a 69 plate e golf. 12 grand gets you a very nice car with real 110 mile range at that time of year. Very impressed with it so far.

[thieuster]

New York Times today: Apple ends electric car plan.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/27/t...smid=url-share

[Tooks]

New York Times today: Apple ends electric car plan.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/27/t...smid=url-share

Yep, Apple are out because they were always going for a Level 4 full self driving EV, which is a long way off now, thank goodness.

https://www.gearpatrol.com/cars/apple-car-2028/

Interestingly, and perhaps more relevant for the near to medium term, the same site details what most of the major manufacturers have planned regarding EVs.

https://www.gearpatrol.com/cars/g389...oing-electric/

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Yep, Apple are out because they were always going for a Level 4 full self driving EV, which is a long way off now, thank goodness.

https://www.gearpatrol.com/cars/apple-car-2028/

Interestingly, and perhaps more relevant for the near to medium term, the same site details what most of the major manufacturers have planned regarding EVs.

https://www.gearpatrol.com/cars/g389...oing-electric/

Hmmmm.

The EV manufacturing base in China and the latest news in terms of over provision does not accord with the last link?.

Toyota CEO has suggested they predict that no more than 30% of their production line will be EV only once the dust settles.

- - - Updated - - -

New York Times today: Apple ends electric car plan.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/27/t...smid=url-share

Wise move IMHO.

[Mr Curta]

Well time will tell. New tech has a habit of developing, improving and being adopted by the public at a dramatic rate and EVs could be one of those things that rapidly goes from unthinkable to most to normal for most like home computers and indoor toilets.

[Longblackcoat]

Hmmmm.

The EV manufacturing base in China and the latest news in terms of over provision does not accord with the last link?.

Toyota CEO has suggested they predict that no more than 30% of their production line will be EV only once the dust settles.

- - - Updated - - -



Wise move IMHO.

There’s a huge reliance on what Akio Toyoda said. But think about his background - his is the company that revolutionised the industry with the Prius, who made hybrids acceptable . And here he is saying that hybrids are the answer,

Gosh, what a surprise.

[Mr Curta]

The luxury end of the EV market is pretty flooded, which could be a major influence on the Apple decision. The emerging take-up will likely be amongst more widely affordable models.

[ingenioren]

In a Norwegian national, the country that has prepared everything for the 'great EV future'.... with huge 'incentives' granted... (and customers now seeking ICEs again . . . !)

Audi turns around: Continues to focus on petrol and diesel
Mats Brustad - Broom.no
27 Feb. 2024 07:38 - Updated 27 Feb. 2024 07:38
[IMG]file:///C:\Users\peter\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image001.jpg[/IMG]
ELECTRIC CAR BRAKE: Audi scraps ambitious electric car target. At the same time, they will develop new petrol engines. This is Audi's CEO Gernot Döllner. Photo: Audi
At the same time slows down the electric car investment.
1K
The article continues below the ad
The electric shift in the car industry has proceeded rapidly. A number of car manufacturers have gone ahead and set an end date for cars with combustion engines. Among them is Audi.
It is only three years since Audi announced that from 2026 they will exclusively present new cars with fully electric operation.
Now Audi is turning. They are simply scrapping the ambitious electric car venture.
Low demand
The main reason is that the demand for electric cars is lower than what the manufacturer had hoped for.
It is again about the fact that electric cars, in almost all markets, are significantly more expensive than comparable cars with a combustion engine.
Very high development costs, increased competition and the economic situation the world is in are also important factors - which make Audi turn around.
Now more people want petrol and diesel cars
(The article continues below the picture).
[IMG]file:///C:\Users\peter\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image002.jpg[/IMG]
CONTINUES: Audi confirms that in the coming years they will develop completely new models with internal combustion engines. Naturally, they will also invest massively in electric models, but not at the same pace as originally planned.
Focus on petrol and diesel
Instead of launching a number of electric cars close together, Audi's CEO Gernot Döllner has stated that they will spread these over a longer period of time. Bloomberg reports .
At the same time, Audi will focus on new models with internal combustion engines, as well as plug-in hybrids.
- We are giving the brand a robust positioning for the coming years with a completely new generation of internal combustion engine models and plug-in hybrids, confirms the CEO in an earlier press release.
Döllner adds that Audi will also focus on "our ground-breaking electric cars".
Also read: BMW is developing completely new petrol and diesel engines
Cutting several models in Norway
From 1 January this year, Audi in Norway cut sales of several models with combustion engines.
Now it is the end of both A3, A6 and A8/S8.
Or in other words: All models with a combustion engine are cut, with one exception. The RS models will live on.
Audi will now offer these models with a combustion engine in Norway:
RS 3, RS 4, RS 6, RS Q3, RS Q8.

What a surprise :-)

[wileeeeeey]

I wouldn’t take the Apple thing too seriously. They’ve been working on a tv for over a decade and the sum total is the Apple TV box, not a TV.

[Tooks]

What a surprise :-)

It’s actually really not a surprise, Audi is a global business, and the entire globe isn’t legislating/adopting EVs at the same rate of progress.

There will be still be a huge ICE market to service for a long time to come, just don’t expect every model to be available in every market, unless legislation is changed or pushed back again.

As it stands, it won’t legally be possible to purchase a brand new ICE model here in the UK or many other European countries after 2035, whether Audi have a model to sell to you or not.

The legislation around percentage of car sales that need to be EV without manufacturers incurring huge fines per non-EV unit shifted hasn’t been pushed back here in the UK either, if they’re to stay in business they’ll need to sell them, or buy credits from 100% EV companies like Tesla.

It’s quite a complex picture, more so than people think, and nobody is going to manufacture country specific vehicles, we’re realistically locked into whatever the EU do, or at the very least what other RHD markets will be supplied with, no matter the legislation.

[MB2]

I wouldn’t take the Apple thing too seriously. They’ve been working on a tv for over a decade and the sum total is the Apple TV box, not a TV.

Perhaps they hope by "pre-announcing" some will hold off buying and wait for an Apple product?

[wileeeeeey]

Perhaps they hope by "pre-announcing" some will hold off buying and wait for an Apple product?

Based off the Apple vision return rate I wouldn’t bet on it

[stooo]

Meh. I’ll still burn a candle for the Sony car.

[Christian]

I think I'm on the verge of buying an EV. I've got a 100 mile round trip commute I do three times a week so in the long run, I think an EV will suit. Research suggests I really need a home charging point to take advantage of an EV electricity rate like Octopus, otherwise it's not worth it.

I hadn't realised that a home charging point needs connecting at the main supply. I've got a 100 amp fuse and am not on a looped supply, so it looks like I'm ready to go. Unfortunately, my main supply is located in the middle of the house under the stairs and I can't see an easy route for the power cable. Hoping an electrician can see an easy route that I haven't considered!

[Longblackcoat]

I think I'm on the verge of buying an EV. I've got a 100 mile round trip commute I do three times a week so in the long run, I think an EV will suit. Research suggests I really need a home charging point to take advantage of an EV electricity rate like Octopus, otherwise it's not worth it.

I hadn't realised that a home charging point needs connecting at the main supply. I've got a 100 amp fuse and am not on a looped supply, so it looks like I'm ready to go. Unfortunately, my main supply is located in the middle of the house under the stairs and I can't see an easy route for the power cable. Hoping an electrician can see an easy route that I haven't considered!

I had the same thing and a clever electrician sorted it for me!

[Ruggertech]

I think I'm on the verge of buying an EV. I've got a 100 mile round trip commute I do three times a week so in the long run, I think an EV will suit. Research suggests I really need a home charging point to take advantage of an EV electricity rate like Octopus, otherwise it's not worth it.

I hadn't realised that a home charging point needs connecting at the main supply. I've got a 100 amp fuse and am not on a looped supply, so it looks like I'm ready to go. Unfortunately, my main supply is located in the middle of the house under the stairs and I can't see an easy route for the power cable. Hoping an electrician can see an easy route that I haven't considered!

Nothing to do with charging points but I'm currently on the second week of having my house completely rewired, including having the circuit board relocated.
It's pretty incredible what they can do and how they can get cables from one part of the house to the other. Your main supply location means it will cost a little more and maybe there will be some redecorating involved but they'll manage it.

[stooo]

I think I'm on the verge of buying an EV. I've got a 100 mile round trip commute I do three times a week so in the long run, I think an EV will suit. Research suggests I really need a home charging point to take advantage of an EV electricity rate like Octopus, otherwise it's not worth it.

I hadn't realised that a home charging point needs connecting at the main supply. I've got a 100 amp fuse and am not on a looped supply, so it looks like I'm ready to go. Unfortunately, my main supply is located in the middle of the house under the stairs and I can't see an easy route for the power cable. Hoping an electrician can see an easy route that I haven't considered!

They may be able to come off the meter box, if that’s more convenient than the CU.

[Franky Four Fingers]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-68412570

God help us, with JLR on this, what could possibly go wrong?

Edit, well apart from being 5 years late, billions over budget and a massive uncontrolled fire, probably nothing

[744ER]

This is worth a read :)

The Norwegian Illusion
The article below is an excerpt from our Q4 2023 commentary.

“Electric vehicles (EVs) are pilling up on lots across the country as the green revolution hits a speed bump, data show.”
~ USA Today, November 14, 2023

“Hertz Global Holdings announced Thursday it planned to cut one-third of its global EV fleet over the year. Following the announcement, Hertz CEO Stephen Scherr suggested the road to electrification could be bumpier than anticipated.”
~ Bloomberg, January 11, 2024

Starting mid-point last decade, the investment community became convinced EV adoption would quickly surge. EV penetrations would become so great that global oil consumption would imminently peak, or so consensus opinion widely believed. 2019 was repeatedly referenced as the year that oil demand would peak and then decline. In retrospect, these concerns were misplaced. Despite the massive COVID-19 disruption, oil demand in 2024 should reach 103 m b/d – 2.3 m b/d greater than 2019. Undeterred by the surprising surge in demand, many analysts remain convinced that “peak oil demand” is still imminent. The investment community’s belief that EVs will displace the internal combustion engine remains as strong as ever. We vigorously disagree.

https://blog.gorozen.com/blog/the-no...4ncbKmu_GwLY3g

[Tooks]

Starting mid-point last decade, the investment community became convinced EV adoption would quickly surge. EV penetrations would become so great that global oil consumption would imminently peak, or so consensus opinion widely believed. 2019 was repeatedly referenced as the year that oil demand would peak and then decline. In retrospect, these concerns were misplaced. Despite the massive COVID-19 disruption, oil demand in 2024 should reach 103 m b/d – 2.3 m b/d greater than 2019. Undeterred by the surprising surge in demand, many analysts remain convinced that “peak oil demand” is still imminent. The investment community’s belief that EVs will displace the internal combustion engine remains as strong as ever. We vigorously disagree]

It’s an investment piece, so very focussed on that aspect over anything else. It also seems to ignore the huge carbon cost of oil extraction, refining and distribution in the comparison, as well as forgetting the massive subsidies that have been enjoyed by oil companies for decades.

But, I happen to agree with this part.

Investors should take note:
While everyone is worried about “peak demand,” we think that “peak supply” is much more likely. The implications could be tremendous.

Our newest commentary, The Norwegian Illusion, looks at how oil demand is not at risk from EV penetration for years to come.

I’ve said this before, oil is a commodity crucial to so many things we rely on for our way of life, it’s almost silly to burn it in an internal combustion engine passenger car when perfectly good alternatives exist.

Despite everything, whilst slowing to merely ‘sensible’, EV penetration is growing despite all the negative press and seems likely we’ll have petrol diesel and electric vehicles on the roads side by side for decades to come.

What are some people scared of, exactly?

[744ER]

It’s an investment piece, so very focussed on that aspect over anything else. It also seems to ignore the huge carbon cost of oil extraction, refining and distribution in the comparison, as well as forgetting the massive subsidies that have been enjoyed by oil companies for decades.

But, I happen to agree with this part.



I’ve said this before, oil is a commodity crucial to so many things we rely on for our way of life, it’s almost silly to burn it in an internal combustion engine passenger car when perfectly good alternatives exist.

Despite everything, whilst slowing to merely ‘sensible’, EV penetration is growing despite all the negative press and seems likely we’ll have petrol diesel and electric vehicles on the roads side by side for decades to come.

What are some people scared of, exactly?

Carbon cost lol... U breathe out carbon dioxide. Anyone who is stupid enough to think "carbon" is dangerous still needs to have their head examined.

[cyrusir]

Carbon cost lol... U breathe out carbon dioxide. Anyone who is stupid enough to think "carbon" is dangerous still needs to have their head examined.

oh cool is methane harmless now aswell?

[Tooks]

Carbon cost lol... U breathe out carbon dioxide. Anyone who is stupid enough to think "carbon" is dangerous still needs to have their head examined.

There is a big difference between respiration and the additional atmospheric CO2 being unlocked through the burning of fossil fuels and other human activities.

[744ER]

Christ you guys should change your last name to Schwab


Lucky this whole ESG grift is coming to an end, and soon :)

[Pitch3110]

I’m pressing the button on a Model S shortly. I think it will be the best 25k I have spent on any motor.

Tell me why I’m mad and should be spending it on an A6, 5 Series or E Class?????

Ta

Pitch

[rdesouza]

I’m pressing the button on a Model S shortly. I think it will be the best 25k I have spent on any motor.

Tell me why I’m mad and should be spending it on an A6, 5 Series or E Class?????

Ta

Pitch

What year you getting for 25k?

Sent from my SM-T510 using TZ-UK mobile app

[Pitch3110]

What year you getting for 25k?

Sent from my SM-T510 using TZ-UK mobile app

Looking at 2018 75D’s which are 23 something with good spec and leggy 2019 100D’s under budget.

Both are lots and lots of spec, tech, power and car for the money.

Just to recap, last four months in new 118i MSport, three previous years Tesla Model 3 Performance and before that 18 years of new BMW and Audi’s.

I cannot get back into a Tesla quick enough.

Pitch

[Longblackcoat]

Christ you guys should change your last name to Schwab


Lucky this whole ESG grift is coming to an end, and soon :)

Yup, all that caring about the environment - absolute cobblers. I don’t feel like a real man unless I’ve burned a bag of coal and polluted a lake before breakfast.

[Franky Four Fingers]

Resist the troll

[Tooks]

I’m pressing the button on a Model S shortly. I think it will be the best 25k I have spent on any motor.

Tell me why I’m mad and should be spending it on an A6, 5 Series or E Class?????

Ta

Pitch

Judging by how our 3 year old 46k mile Model 3 is doing, it had its MOT yesterday, I’d have no hesitation in picking up a used Model S.

RSymons is a used Tesla specialist, not sure if you’ve seen any of his videos, but he’s got a 30 min video on things to look out for on a used Model S, perhaps worth a watch.

https://youtu.be/mAV8jT5XS2Y?si=j6HslYbekTeh6Mn9

[Passenger]

Yup, all that caring about the environment - absolute cobblers. I don’t feel like a real man unless I’ve burned a bag of coal and polluted a lake before breakfast.

I could well be wrong, but I thought the overwhelming consensus on here was that nobody embracing EV´s was really all that bovvered about the environment anyway...that it was mainly down to financial considerations chiefly bribes- tax advantages, relative cheapness providing you ´´fill up´´ at home, and what marvellous, relaxing cars, their superiority to ice vehicles...

Rather a lot of energy and materials do go into those batteries...I imagine a lot of the mining negatively impacts such things as top soil, plant life, wild life habitats and ground water, rivers, lakes..still some real man points to EV´s, let us not gloss over that.

[Tooks]

I could well be wrong, but I thought the overwhelming consensus on here was that nobody embracing EV´s was really all that bovvered about the environment anyway...that it was mainly down to financial considerations chiefly bribes- tax advantages, relative cheapness providing you ´´fill up´´ at home, and what marvellous, relaxing cars, their superiority to ice vehicles...

Rather a lot of energy and materials do go into those batteries...I imagine a lot of the mining negatively impacts such things as top soil, plant life, wild life habitats and ground water, rivers, lakes..still some real man points to EV´s, let us not gloss over that.

It would be really great if we could discuss EVs without all this nonsense, or are you making the same environmental points over on the numerous Range Rover/Defender or other ICE threads?

You keep banging on about mining etc, where do you think the raw materials come from for any car? Do you care about the damage and destruction from the extraction, transport, refining and burning of road fuels, or does it not matter because you can’t see it?

Whilst I didn’t buy my first EV over 10 years ago because of the environment, I am somewhat ‘bovvered’ about it. Overall, and whilst not being zero impact, it’s a fact that EVs are less impactful over their lifespan and that shouldn’t really be up for argument, or even be causing anybody any angst.

If we could just try and de-couple talk about EVs from wider environmental views/beliefs/religions, I think that would be a welcome relief for everybody.

[reggie747]

or even be causing anybody any angst.

It appears to be mainly you that it's causing angst to...

[Passenger]

It would be really great if we could discuss EVs without all this nonsense, or are you making the same environmental points over on the numerous Range Rover/Defender or other ICE threads?

You keep banging on about mining etc, where do you think the raw materials come from for any car? Do you care about the damage and destruction from the extraction, transport, refining and burning of road fuels, or does it not matter because you can’t see it?

Whilst I didn’t buy my first EV over 10 years ago because of the environment, I am somewhat ‘bovvered’ about it. Overall, and whilst not being zero impact, it’s a fact that EVs are less impactful over their lifespan and that shouldn’t really be up for argument, or even be causing anybody any angst.

If we could just try and de-couple talk about EVs from wider environmental views/beliefs/religions, I think that would be a welcome relief for everybody.

Do I keep banging on about mining, really, maybe...

Just wanted to make clear to any hairy arsed traditional car loving chaps that EV´s also come with an environmental cost too, lest they be put off trying one.

I do think BIG cars are pretty stoopid as it happens, but c´mon boys we love our compensatory big toys...LOOK UPON MY BIG CAR AND TREMBLE.. I´d be upsetting a couple of apple carts with that one though, softly, softly.

[Tooks]

It appears to be mainly you that it's causing angst to...

Do I find it irritating that there are a number of posters whose content firmly falls into the “tell us you know nothing about EVs without actually telling us you know nothing about EVs” and just regurgitate crap from elsewhere on the internet? Yes.

Do I find it hypocritical that some of the same people lecturing and attacking me about the carbon footprint of EVs own multiple houses, fly and cruise around the world, and seem to take pride in driving something that causes harm every time it’s driven? Yes.

EVs shouldnt be causing anybody any concern, certainly versus any other type of vehicle, or needing them to cock their leg against any thread that mentions them. If I were doing the same on every car thread, wailing about ICE vehicles and I’m sure you’d have a point, but I don’t. I’m also not an ‘EVangelist’, I still own an ICE van, drive ICE cars regularly but do contribute to this thread to try and help people who might be interested in choosing an EV as their next vehicle, and to point out FUD.

I have been attacked a few times in this thread and others, I’ve always been careful to not return fire, but unfortunately this thread is a good example of the decline in this once great forum.

The G&D is now troll central on many threads, everybody on transmit, everything is black and white, nobody on receive.

[Tooks]

Do I keep banging on about mining, really, maybe...

Just wanted to make clear to any hairy arsed traditional car loving chaps that EV´s also come with an environmental cost too, lest they be put off trying one.

I do think BIG cars are pretty stoopid as it happens, but c´mon boys we love our compensatory big toys...LOOK UPON MY BIG CAR AND TREMBLE.. I´d be upsetting a couple of apple carts with that one though, softly, softly.

Everything we drive comes with an environmental cost, that’s fact, but some are more impactful than others. My camper van > car > bicycle etc.

I don’t understand why EVs can’t be discussed on their own merits without being held up as failing to save the planet, when it’s pretty clear that’s not what they’re about anyway.

No car at all is the only way to have zero impact driving, which I know is a contradiction, but there we go.

[Passenger]

Maybe T don´t take it all so seriously, just a suggestion. Fwiw I haven´t seen anyone having a go at you personally.

[Tooks]

Maybe T don´t take it all so seriously, just a suggestion. Fwiw I haven´t seen anyone having a go at you personally.

I don’t think I take my enthusiasm any more seriously than the detractors?! :-)

But yes, I guess not many entrenched views are going to be changed now.

[theoriginaldigger]

I could well be wrong, but I thought the overwhelming consensus on here was that nobody embracing EV´s was really all that bovvered about the environment anyway...that it was mainly down to financial considerations chiefly bribes- tax advantages, relative cheapness providing you ´´fill up´´ at home, and what marvellous, relaxing cars, their superiority to ice vehicles...

Rather a lot of energy and materials do go into those batteries...I imagine a lot of the mining negatively impacts such things as top soil, plant life, wild life habitats and ground water, rivers, lakes..still some real man points to EV´s, let us not gloss over that.

I only have one Pal who owns an EV and he’s really smug about how cheap it is to run … well yeah he plugs it in at work and charges it up at his employers expense and no they don’t know !


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Franky Four Fingers]

I only have one Pal who owns an EV and he’s really smug about how cheap it is to run … well yeah he plugs it in at work and charges it up at his employers expense and no they don’t know !


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

With the right EV tariff he could charge it at home also and still pay less for the mileage he needs than most ICE cars. I guess thats the advantage of leccie cars as long as theres a 3 pin socket you can skank free mileage from anywhere

[Dave+63]

I only have one Pal who owns an EV and he’s really smug about how cheap it is to run … well yeah he plugs it in at work and charges it up at his employers expense and no they don’t know !


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

That’s still theft and a dismissible offence should he get caught.

[Mr Curta]

That’s still theft and a dismissible offence should he get caught.

Bloody hell, I've been topping up my phone at work.

I'm joking, obvs. It's about what is reasonable and what is not, but the moral compass can vary pretty wildly.

We have free EV charging at work but the Octopus tariff makes it hardly worth the bother.

[Dave+63]

Bloody hell, I've been topping up my phone at work.

I'm joking, obvs. It's about what is reasonable and what is not, but the moral compass can vary pretty wildly.

We have free EV charging at work but the Octopus tariff makes it hardly worth the bother.

Best run it by the boss before doing it again then!

If he’s putting in, say 20kwhr per day at 25p per kwhr, that’s a fiver a day (or £1250 a year) he’s stealing from his employer. I’m sure his employer wouldn’t take kindly to it.

[Mr Curta]

Best run it by the boss before doing it again then!

If he’s putting in, say 20kwhr per day at 25p per kwhr, that’s a fiver a day (or £1250 a year) he’s stealing from his employer. I’m sure his employer wouldn’t take kindly to it.

Yes, I totally agree. Don't take what isn't given.