Electric cars-got to be a viable option now?

[wileeeeeey]

Up a very brown river and with no means of propelling themselves. However people with confirmed orders and deposits paid were fine in the US so I assume the same applies here however of course UK price increases remain a rumour at this stage

I’d guess in the same position as people with deposits on sports Rolex.
Pay the new price or have your deposit back.
Tesla are so popular at the moment they would have no problems selling cancelled orders.

Just called Tesla. Guy said price is the price, £100 locked it in.

No news on pricing but he did acknowledge the American price rise but said that doesn't automatically mean anything in the UK.

[jaytip]

On another note. I did a Bristol airport run in the week dropping a customer off from Bridgend.
I knew I had more than enough range to get there comfortably so accepted the job accepting that I would have to charge on the way back home.
Gordano services CCS charger was offline so I decided to stop at Magor services instead. Arrived there and there was a car on charge (despite having CCS and chademo connectors, the charger would only charge one car at a time) and two other cars waiting, so off to Cardiff Gate it was. Managed to get charged up there but it took three attempts to get a successful connection.
What is desperately needed are more petrol station like charging stations with 8/10/12 chargers available at the one location.
To my knowledge there isn’t a single such area in Wales.
EV sales are increasing rapidly but the infrastructure is woefully lagging.

[jaytip]

Just called Tesla. Guy said price is the price, £100 locked it in.

No news on pricing but he did acknowledge the American price rise but said that doesn't automatically mean anything in the UK.

Good on Tesla for honouring it. Pity Rolex don’t take note.

[wileeeeeey]

Good on Tesla for honouring it. Pity Rolex don’t take note.

I guess the difference between Tesla and Rolex is Tesla are able to give you a delivery date. Imagine putting a £100 deposit on a £9k Daytona today and getting the call 9 years later when they're £20k while £9k is still locked in. Insanity.

I put £100 on a Model Y too the morning pre-orders were released. Wonder what happens to the pricing on that. Apparently it will be here late Feb and I'll have the choice of getting then or waiting for the new plates in March.

[jaytip]

I guess the difference between Tesla and Rolex is Tesla are able to give you a delivery date. Imagine putting a £100 deposit on a £9k Daytona today and getting the call 9 years later when they're £20k while £9k is still locked in. Insanity.

I put £100 on a Model Y too the morning pre-orders were released. Wonder what happens to the pricing on that. Apparently it will be here late Feb and I'll have the choice of getting then or waiting for the new plates in March.

But if you were buying direct from Rolex as you do with Tesla I’d imagine you would be getting that watch a lot sooner than you think. It’s the back door selling and preferential customers that are falsely skewing waiting times on sought after Rolex.

[wileeeeeey]

Just called the actual guy I'm dealing with at the Tesla store just to double check.

Price should be going up in the next 7 days or so. No clue on the exact percentage, but up nonetheless.

£100 locks you in at the current RRP on the website. If you're on the fence throw £100 in just to hedge.

[Dave+63]

What is desperately needed are more petrol station like charging stations with 8/10/12 chargers available at the one location.
To my knowledge there isn’t a single such area in Wales.

As far as I’m aware, there’s still only one such site (in Essex) in the whole of the UK.

Excluding Tesla supercharger of course where they generally put in multiple chargers.

[hogthrob]

Where does that leave people with £100 deposits?

Maybe you'll owe them another £10?

[guinea]

As far as I’m aware, there’s still only one such site (in Essex) in the whole of the UK.

Excluding Tesla supercharger of course where they generally put in multiple chargers.

I think I drove past this the other day, but I can't remember where it was.

Looked like a normal filling station, but with a long row of EV chargers lined up on the back wall.

It seemed like a great solution and what the future of fueling stations should be.

[MB2]

As far as I’m aware, there’s still only one such site (in Essex) in the whole of the UK.

Excluding Tesla supercharger of course where they generally put in multiple chargers.

There is a 5 stall EV garage in New Malden so I think they are coming

[Tooks]

There are quite a few springing up now, as in multi charger hubs as opposed to Gridserve type ‘electric fuel stations’.

There are quite a few 4 charger Instavolt hubs now, and some 8s as well like the one at Banbury or Necton in Norfolk.

There’s also a few BP Pulse hubs at Park & Rides.

They are coming, but South Wales does seem a bit light on hubs/multi sites at the moment considering Cardiff/Swansea etc.

[wileeeeeey]

Hertz have just ordered 100,000 Tesla's for $4.2bn.

[Dave+63]

Surely the chargers at Park & Rides are 7kw destination chargers rather than rapids?

They’re useful if you’re parking all day but if you have to rapid chargers before/after you ride then they are less so, although they will still suit a few people’s needs.

[wileeeeeey]

Cambridge park and ride has Superchargers everywhere.

[Tooks]

Surely the chargers at Park & Rides are 7kw destination chargers rather than rapids?

They’re useful if you’re parking all day but if you have to rapid chargers before/after you ride then they are less so, although they will still suit a few people’s needs.

The Lancaster Park & Ride, that I’ve used, has 6 x 7kW, 6 CCS and 6 ChaDeMo Rapids, so caters for all comers really.

I agree though that most park and rides need only 3kW or 7kW posts that you can leave your car on all day if you’re at work, for example.

[Taxboy]

I don't want to sound all preachy, but the main driver(!) for EVs is to reduce emmissions, is it not? Cost savings are a secondary consideration.

You're correct but a way of doing this is to use incentives and make EVs cheaper to run, making them more attractive than an ICE vehicle

Sent from my moto g(7) plus using Tapatalk

[MrSmith]

You're correct but a way of doing this is to use incentives and make EVs cheaper to run, making them more attractive than an ICE vehicle

Sent from my moto g(7) plus using Tapatalk

and then reduce their use for short urban journeys where walking/public transport/cycling are just as viable. at least there is no idling sat in traffic for hours to do a half mile jpurney.

[CriticalMass]

On a good day what’s it sending to the car, will it charge it fully in one day?

Yes- but I’m running a PHEV so only a 15 KWH battery. I doubt it would charge a big EV with something like a 70KWH battery. There are loads of variables like number of roof panels, orientation, time of the year etc which will dictate how much power they will generate in a day.

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Hertz have just ordered 100,000 Tesla's for $4.2bn.

That will just crash the charger infrastructure (or lack of it).

[Franky Four Fingers]

Yes- but I’m running a PHEV so only a 15 KWH battery. I doubt it would charge a big EV with something like a 70KWH battery. There are loads of variables like number of roof panels, orientation, time of the year etc which will dictate how much power they will generate in a day.

Sorry for all the questions, so your system will it send anything not used by the house to the car?
So let’s say you’re generating 1kwh and your house is requesting 500 watts, will it send the other 500 watts to the car or does it have to see a minimum amount that it has to see before it diverts it?

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Sorry for all the questions, so your system will it send anything not used by the house to the car?
So let’s say you’re generating 1kwh and your house is requesting 500 watts, will it send the other 500 watts to the car or does it have to see a minimum amount that it has to see before it diverts it?

500 watts is not going to do anything to your car charge for (almost) eternity.

[Tooks]

That will just crash the charger infrastructure (or lack of it).

Hardly. Tesla sold 440k Model 3 vehicles last year, and are on course to sell 750k of all model types this year globally.

100k vehicles for use on a hire fleet around the world isn’t going to make a dent.

[ryanb741]

Price increase on Tesla M3 SR + just went through. Quite a modest one (2.5%) although the US saw 2 in a week. I guess the other models are imminent to get their price hikes also.

Edit SR+ seems to have had a range hike too! 278 miles now whereas I'm sure it was c260 miles yesterday!

[Loupe]

Price increase on Tesla M3 SR + just went through. Quite a modest one (2.5%) although the US saw 2 in a week. I guess the other models are imminent to get their price hikes also.

Edit SR+ seems to have had a range hike too! 278 miles now whereas I'm sure it was c260 miles yesterday!

Thanks for the heads up a few days ago.
I put my deposit down yesterday to avoid the possible increase.

[ryanb741]

Thanks for the heads up a few days ago.
I put my deposit down yesterday to avoid the possible increase.

You are very welcome. Enjoy the car when it arrives. :)

[wileeeeeey]

Price increase on Tesla M3 SR + just went through. Quite a modest one (2.5%) although the US saw 2 in a week. I guess the other models are imminent to get their price hikes also.

Edit SR+ seems to have had a range hike too! 278 miles now whereas I'm sure it was c260 miles yesterday!

Was always 278 on my browser.

Wouldn't be surprised if there's another increase, think that's what happened in the US - small then another.

£1k on a £41k car isn't exactly wild. These two screenshots however...

[MB2]

Was always 278 on my browser.

Wouldn't be surprised if there's another increase, think that's what happened in the US - small then another.

£1k on a £41k car isn't exactly wild. These two screenshots however...

I read somewhere there was a supply issue on all the AMG V8s so not so far from the Rolex analogies as they have joked earlier in this thread.

[tertius]

Sorry for all the questions, so your system will it send anything not used by the house to the car?
So let’s say you’re generating 1kwh and your house is requesting 500 watts, will it send the other 500 watts to the car or does it have to see a minimum amount that it has to see before it diverts it?

Yes, in principle you can set the priority for supply, I’m not aware of any minimum amounts, quite often you will see small rates of charge to the battery - every little helps! I don’t have an EV but I do have a house battery and the priority is:

1. Supply the house; then if there is any excess:

2. charge the battery
Or
3. If the battery is fully charged send any excess into the grid

Looking right now on a fairly grey day, my system is generating 819 watts; of which 212w is going to run the house and the rest is charging the battery, which is at 13% charge. At this time of year the battery (which is only 7.2 kWh) never seems to get fully charged - too grey and the days are too short. Accordingly whilst a solar system will provide some power to your EV it’s not likely to be a lot.

[ryanb741]

Was always 278 on my browser.

Wouldn't be surprised if there's another increase, think that's what happened in the US - small then another.

£1k on a £41k car isn't exactly wild. These two screenshots however...

Looks like SR+ range is increased to 305 miles

https://driveteslacanada.ca/model-3/...-battery-pack/

[wileeeeeey]

Looks like SR+ range is increased to 305 miles

https://driveteslacanada.ca/model-3/...-battery-pack/

Wow, that's excellent.

Locked in our trade in price yesterday. Their trade ins are done by WBAC yet the offer is more than my WBAC offer.

Have until 24th Dec to actually make the trade.

Wife still isn't a fan but she's had the last two car choices and made me sell the bike. Think it looks like a toy and compared it to a posh smart car. She's desperate for a Q5 or X3 but that's a bit rich currently.

[Tooks]

Looks like SR+ range is increased to 305 miles

https://driveteslacanada.ca/model-3/...-battery-pack/

Remember that’s the more optimistic WLTP measure of estimated range, it will probably translate to a real world range of 250 with the new larger LFP chemistry pack.

You won’t get that at motorway speeds or covering lots of short journeys either, as it’s 4.4 miles per kWh which is pretty optimistic as an all year round figure, even for a Tesla.

This is the current LFP battery SR+ with 52.5kWh useable, at 215 miles, the newer one will do a bit better.

https://ev-database.uk/car/1320/Tesl...Range-Plus-LFP

[Captain Morgan]

Interesting solution to the electrification of the hgv

[ryanb741]

I hired a BMW i3 today for a long run (300 miles) as I've sold my Velar and am waiting for delivery in December of a Tesla Model 3. Today's experience has told me that if you don't have access to Tesla supercharging then relying on the other networks is a faff. Mostly different apps needed, slower, half out of order, queues etc. We aren't ready as a nation for mass EV adoption yet. The i3 had a range extender that ran on (wait for it) petrol and that basically acted as a generator to charge the battery while driving and gave another 100 miles. I ended up using that and filling it twice. So the EV car I had ended up being powered by petrol for most of the trip. So I'm glad I have a Tesla on order as the supercharger network is a huge USP but non Supercharger EV network is dogsh*t.

BTW the i3 is a cracking car - tardis-like as it seems tiny from the outside but inside is actually pretty spacious.

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Interesting solution to the electrification of the hgv

It's an utter nonsense idea, period.

We need to get trucks off the road not install huge overhead electrical infrastructure over the road network.

[wileeeeeey]

It's an utter nonsense idea, period.

We need to get trucks off the road not install huge overhead electrical infrastructure over the road network.

We already have overhead electrical infrastructure in the UK - trains. They should better utilise the rail network. I was out last week and saw a haulage train going by for Tesco.

[Chewitt13]

My q4 etron has just be delayed till June.......

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[Chris_in_the_UK]

We already have overhead electrical infrastructure in the UK - trains. They should better utilise the rail network. I was out last week and saw a haulage train going by for Tesco.

100%

Some jumped up idea that seems to have gained some publicity - dumbest idea ever.

[jaytip]

It's an utter nonsense idea, period.

We need to get trucks off the road not install huge overhead electrical infrastructure over the road network.

Everything we buy moves by lorry at some point. How do you propose we get our goods if we are taking lorries off the roads?

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Everything we buy moves by lorry at some point. How do you propose we get our goods if we are taking lorries off the roads?

Better use of rail, which equates to shorter, local journeys.

[wileeeeeey]

My q4 etron has just be delayed till June.......

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

Is it going to replace the Model 3?

[aa388]

We already have overhead electrical infrastructure in the UK - trains. They should better utilise the rail network. I was out last week and saw a haulage train going by for Tesco.

That’s because of the grants they get. What you won’t find out is they drive stock from teesport to Daventry to put it on a train to Scotland. The distance to Daventry is about 20 miles longer than delivering it direct to Scotland. So everything isn’t always what it seems.


Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

[aa388]

Better use of rail, which equates to shorter, local journeys.

You’d have to move dramatically away from the just in time life we lead today to get things back on the rails, also a massive investment on the rail infrastructure and look at the HS2 fiasco, we can’t afford to build further than Birmingham.
Amazon for what it’s worth nearly has got it spot on with hub distribution, but get it wrong all the time. I ordered a single mattress from them, I live in Darlington, it was in the warehouse in Darlington but it was sent to Carlisle for delivery from there where’s the logic in that.


Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

[Kingstepper]

You’d have to move dramatically away from the just in time life we lead today to get things back on the rails, also a massive investment on the rail infrastructure and look at the HS2 fiasco, we can’t afford to build further than Birmingham.
Amazon for what it’s worth nearly has got it spot on with hub distribution, but get it wrong all the time. I ordered a single mattress from them, I live in Darlington, it was in the warehouse in Darlington but it was sent to Carlisle for delivery from there where’s the logic in that.


Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

Can only see it being useful for containers or bulk loads. Agree would require massive infrastructure investment - for example, can you easily get from Dover or Felixstowe to rest of country by rail?
Maybe hydrogen ICEs as being developed by JCB would be a solution for lorries.

[Saint-Just]

The rail network is only a (very) small part of the solution.
There used to be a lorry transport train system in France (it still exists in Switzerland) and they are trying to revive it but it can only be for very specific destinations, and for various reasons:
- the traffic on the rail network is already heavy. The recent crisis (petrol, harbours/container ships, food stocks) give us a small glimpse of how intense the road (HGVs) traffic is; You would virtually have to double the lines (one for passengers, one for merchandises) and the cost is astronomical.
- of course, traffic is significantly reduced at night so there is merit in thinking those hours could be used for merchandise. But they would still necessitates brand new, out of town stations dedicated to loading/unloading goods. They would also be very noisy (intense traffic, machinery... If you've been in a harbour while they are dealing with container ships you will know), which is not exactly compatible with intense night time activity in a city suburbs.

Installing an overhead electrical supply on every motorway would be MUCH quicker, and would require a comparatively small investment for both the state and the hauling companies, as HGV would still keep their ICE capabilities (outside motorways and on those not yet electrified) with no need for massive (and expensive) battery systems.

[stoneyloon]

We already have overhead electrical infrastructure in the UK - trains. They should better utilise the rail network. I was out last week and saw a haulage train going by for Tesco.

Not North of Edinburgh we don't!

I remember going to Aberdeen train station as part of a geography lesson in the late 70's / early 80's and being told how great the electrified lines we'd soon be getting would be...


Cheers,

Adam.

[Franky Four Fingers]

To think, we don’t use the network of waterways we used years ago to ease this solution.

[Saint-Just]

To think, we don’t use the network of waterways we used years ago to ease this solution.

As a student I took part in a study for a Unilever factory supply in the Netherlands and indeed using canals was the better way between the harbour and the plant. But so many conditions had to be met, including of course perfect geography, considerable number of barges for an almost continuous supply, etc. and that for a country that is covered with waterways... There may be a couple of instances in the whole UK where it could be made to work for a specific factory with reasonable investment but that is it.

I know it is fashionable to turn to the past for what worked then, but our needs (wants?) are on different scale altogether nowadays.

[hogthrob]

for example, can you easily get from Dover or Felixstowe to rest of country by rail?

Felixstowe has a direct rail link to the norwich to London line, and according to this timetable, has direct access to most major cities. https://www.portoffelixstowe.co.uk/rail/rail-schedule

[Saint-Just]

Felixstowe has a direct rail link to the norwich to London line, and according to this timetable, has direct access to most major cities. https://www.portoffelixstowe.co.uk/rail/rail-schedule

Do you really want freight to arrive in city centres?

[jwg663]

I worked 'on the ground' in rail freight for twenty years from 1975 to 1995. In those years, rail moved most types of items: coal, building materials (iron, steel, cement, bricks, glass etc.), chemicals, fertiliser, nuclear materials, foodstuffs (perishable & otherwise), drink, petrol, aviation fuel etc., etc.. The infrastrucure & staff required to do so was immense. Where I worked, in a relatively small marshalling yard, we'd have turnover (arrivals/departures) of 1200 to 1300 wagons a day. We'd about 20 local trains a day, delivering wagons to sidings within about 30 miles of the yard. Those same trains would pick up loaded or empty wagons to return to the yard to be marshalled into 'trunk' trains which would be sent to larger, distant marshalling yards to be moved to their destinations. We ran four trains a day to Carlisle, three to Mossend, two to Stranraer for NI & two to Cadder (in total, about 400 wagons). In addition, we ran bulk coal trains to Longannet, a thousand tonnes of coal per train & twenty trains per week. We handled every amount of business; from two coalmen in the Highlands who shared a wagon of coal every couple of weeks to twice-weekly 400 tonne loads of whisky from Johnny Walker going to Italy for distribution.*

It's 2021. Most of the marshalling yards, sidings & depots have gone. Most of the locomotives have gone. Reinstating what's gone would make HS2 look like a Gregg's Steak Bake compared to a Salt Bae steak.

As for overhead lines for lorries, Glasgow tried it with buses between 1949 & 1967. I'm old enough to remember them in Cathcart Road. Every couple of corners, there'd be someone standing with an insulated pole to hook the bus back on to the wires!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolleybuses_in_Glasgow



*Edit: How could I forget? We also did bulk coal to NI & 'puffer'-coal for the islands from Ayr Harbour.