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Thread: Electric cars-got to be a viable option now?

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  1. #1

    Electric cars-got to be a viable option now?

    Yes I know this has been talked about to death over the past few years but Iím slowly coming around to EV vehicles. My current business lease is due to expire mid next year and due to the current lead time with the majority of manufactures Iíd be looking at a 3 month wait time anyway.
    Having been off for a fortnight and only going out days Iíve visited most of the major players with EV vehicles. Firsty what a huge difference there is between dealers and what you can actually sit in and road-test. Iíve gone from literally no stock of anything, to only having demos that are sat there, to ones to view only and canít look inside, others have allowed to actually play inside and some Ive been able to crawl all over and road- test.

    So far Iíve looked at the Hyundai Iconiq5 which the wife simply dismissed, the VW id3 and 4 which is ok but leaves me a little bit meh, looked at some of the Kia range but again left a little underwhelmed. Had a good look at Tesla 3 which again the wife hated the driving position. Looked at the French options which sadly something was missing and they didnít seem to quite hit the range. Nissan and Mazda have never done much for me so have dismissed them without looking.

    By far the best model Iíve been in so far and tested has been the Merc EQC, unbelievably smooth and refined and as yet other than slightly less range than the Tesla Iím struggling to find a reason not to buy. Iíve also got a road-test booked for the EQA which Iím expecting to be very similar if not smaller than the EQC.
    Real life range is going to be about 200-220 from a claimed 260, this is way more than Iím going to need weekly and will likely cost me around a tenner per charge where Iím currently spending c£35-40 in diesel. They come with free chargers and I can utilise the bulb or octopus night time tariff of about 6p per kWh to charge.
    Ive dismissed leccie cars for ages but for me theyíre becoming increasingly a viable option
    ĎAnyone else considering making the change and if so what you looking at?
    FFF

  2. #2
    Master Kirk280's Avatar
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    I know a couple of people with the EQC and they seem to like them a lot.

    I think the Polestar 2 is a great looking car, thatís the one Iíd be checking out first.

    Mustang Mach-E? I know nothing about them, but the fact Ford used the name ĎMustangí when it blatantly isnít would put me off!

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk280 View Post
    I know a couple of people with the EQC and they seem to like them a lot.

    I think the Polestar 2 is a great looking car, thatís the one Iíd be checking out first.

    Mustang Mach-E? I know nothing about them, but the fact Ford used the name ĎMustangí when it blatantly isnít would put me off!
    Yeh I did look at the polestar but again Iíve been wifed!!

  4. #4
    Craftsman
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    I-Pace driver here and love it

    I thought my wife would take some time to get used to the difference in the way it drives but since day 1 she has loved it as well

    Saves us around £150/month in running costa versus our diesel Discovery it replaced

  5. #5
    Master Halitosis's Avatar
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    Electric cars-got to be a viable option now?

    Weí are going electric next but so far have only looked at the Audi Q4 E-Tron. Very nice.
    The only disappointment for us was the unadjustable headrests being too far forward for our comfort.
    The heads-up display disappears if you wear polarised sunglasses - no doubt that would be the case regardless of manufacturer.
    Despite being a large SUV, internals feel no bigger and the boot space is definitely smaller than our current Golf. I guess the batteries have to go somewhere.
    Last edited by Halitosis; 10th August 2021 at 06:39.

  6. #6
    Master reggie747's Avatar
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    FFF, sounds like you better leave the whole EV decision making process to the wife as she seems to be calling ALL the shots here man !!!

    I took a Polestar 2 out for an hours drive last weekend and it was pretty damned good. Twin motor performance pack with add ons.

    Maybe if you could glue a Merc badge on the front and the ar$e end, she may not notice ??

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by reggie747 View Post
    FFF, sounds like you better leave the whole EV decision making process to the wife as she seems to be calling ALL the shots here man !!!

    I took a Polestar 2 out for an hours drive last weekend and it was pretty damned good. Twin motor performance pack with add ons.

    Maybe if you could glue a Merc badge on the front and the ar$e end, she may not notice ??
    Sheís still coming around to the whole EV thing and is currently still in the ICE camp, the other slight issue with the Polestar is we have 2 largish dogs and they simply wouldnít go in the boot meaning theyíd have to go on the back seats which is far from ideal if they get covered in mud.

  8. #8
    I have yet to see an EV with a tow bar fitted.
    Anyone know of an estate EV which fully loaded would tow my caravan on a 300 mile around trip for a weekend in the country?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by forpetesake View Post
    I have yet to see an EV with a tow bar fitted.
    Anyone know of an estate EV which fully loaded would tow my caravan on a 300 mile around trip for a weekend in the country?
    I suspect that you will have to wait 10 years for motor and battery tech to catch up with that requirement.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Bravo73 View Post
    I suspect that you will have to wait 10 years for motor and battery tech to catch up with that requirement.
    Thank You. I can wait.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by forpetesake View Post
    I have yet to see an EV with a tow bar fitted.
    Anyone know of an estate EV which fully loaded would tow my caravan on a 300 mile around trip for a weekend in the country?
    I'm not sure how heavy your caravan is, but my neighbour is about to take delivery of a VW ID4 and mentioned that it has a 310 mile range (in theory, at least) and can tow a trailer up to 1200kg


    https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/electri...s/id4-gtx.html

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by JonRA View Post
    I'm not sure how heavy your caravan is, but my neighbour is about to take delivery of a VW ID4 and mentioned that it has a 310 mile range (in theory, at least) and can tow a trailer up to 1200kg


    https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/electri...s/id4-gtx.html
    Most caravans are 1300-1800kg, so nowhere near. A diesel Octavia for example can do 1800kg, a Superb 2000-2200

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by JonRA View Post
    I'm not sure how heavy your caravan is, but my neighbour is about to take delivery of a VW ID4 and mentioned that it has a 310 mile range (in theory, at least) and can tow a trailer up to 1200kg


    https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/electri...s/id4-gtx.html
    Thank You for this info and link. I am quite out of touch with the prices.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by forpetesake View Post
    I have yet to see an EV with a tow bar fitted.
    Anyone know of an estate EV which fully loaded would tow my caravan on a 300 mile around trip for a weekend in the country?
    Not estates but you could consider the Tesla Model X (2,270kg) or if you prefer the range of a hybrid the Porsche Cayenne E-Hybrid (3,500kg) might suffice. Sure both would be very economical.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Not estates but you could consider the Tesla Model X (2,270kg) or if you prefer the range of a hybrid the Porsche Cayenne E-Hybrid (3,500kg) might suffice. Sure both would be very economical.
    If I could afford those, I wouldn't be going on caravan holidays, lol.
    Hyundai Ioniq 5 looks reasonable at 1600kg, but they're still over £40k

  16. #16
    Master
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    Both our cars are fully electric, having made the changeover in the last year and a half . We have off street parking so can charge them at home which made them a viable option for us.
    Firstly we have had an Audi E-tron for about 18 months, and I love it. Effortless to drive, very quiet, reasonably spacious, more than quick enough for a family car. Real world range varies from 220+ miles in the summer, down to 180 mid-winter.

    Earlier this year we got a Renault Zoe to replace my wifeís old Firsta, which obviously is pretty basic compared with the Audi but makes a great city car and is surprisingly spacious inside. Range is actually pretty similar to the Audi.

    I had a Q4 e-tron as a courtesy car whilst mine was in for a recall and was pleasantly surprised by it. Contrary to the comment above I found it surprisingly spacious both in the cabin and boot. A quick google will tell you itís way bigger capacity than the current Golf too (520l versus 380l).


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

  17. #17
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Try the Mustang, I was very impressed. We tried it around the same time as the Q4, Q5 and EQA (no EQC available but above budget anyway). My favourite by far was the Mach E.

    Youíll probably find the EQA something of a let down after the EQC, itís two thirds of the price and it shows from the drivers seat.

    I did like the HUD in the Audi though!

  18. #18
    Master Pitch3110's Avatar
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    Nearly a year on with a Tesla Model 3 Performance and I could not be happier.

    Running cost is just nuts, I will actually do the year one calcs in a couple of weeks and the sheer grunt still leaves me smiling, I will never get bored.

    Long journeys have proved effortless, the Tesla Supercharge network and ease is streets ahead. Sniffing out the free local chargers is nice and helps to keep the already crazy cheap cost even lower.

    Are EVís the answerÖÖ. I donít think so, the infrastructure is just so behind but maybe okay for a few years without a major injection of cash.

    The Model 3 ÖÖ. Quality is ropey in places but the tech, design and sheer fun more than makes up.

    Pitch

  19. #19
    Master RJM25R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post

    EQC.


    Real life range is going to be about 200-220 from a claimed 260,

    A little advice, the true mileage of 160-200 is what my real-world customers are getting, depending on temperature, accessory usage etc.

    Iíve sold 20+ of these and thatís what the clients are saying they are really getting, for transparency.

    We have a demo car thatís sub 200 miles to a full charge (I used it to 170 ish before panic sets in but you are at ~5% battery by this point) and thatís based on a lot of accessory usage on test drives (testing sunroofs, stereos, ambient lights etc.) and very variable temperatures over the last 8 months

    Itís a fabulous vehicle however IMHO, for the money, itís difficult to see past a nice speccy GLC43 AMG and lots of cash left over for the high fuel cost!

    HTH

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by RJM25R View Post
    A little advice, the true mileage of 160-200 is what my real-world customers are getting, depending on temperature, accessory usage etc.

    Iíve sold 20+ of these and thatís what the clients are saying they are really getting, for transparency.

    We have a demo car thatís sub 200 miles to a full charge (I used it to 170 ish before panic sets in but you are at ~5% battery by this point) and thatís based on a lot of accessory usage on test drives (testing sunroofs, stereos, ambient lights etc.) and very variable temperatures over the last 8 months

    Itís a fabulous vehicle however IMHO, for the money, itís difficult to see past a nice speccy GLC43 AMG and lots of cash left over for the high fuel cost!

    HTH
    Thanks for the info- always good to know.

  21. #21
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    I think Teslas USP is the supercharger network. We had a leaf many years ago and any time we had to use a charger away from home (admittedly not often) it was a complete nightmare, refusing payment, not having the right payment card, charger out of order, charger in use or blocked by an ice car.

    maybe things have changed but I still think my first port of call come car change time in 4 years will be Elons door.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by julian2002 View Post
    I think Teslas USP is the supercharger network. We had a leaf many years ago and any time we had to use a charger away from home (admittedly not often) it was a complete nightmare, refusing payment, not having the right payment card, charger out of order, charger in use or blocked by an ice car.

    maybe things have changed but I still think my first port of call come car change time in 4 years will be Elons door.
    Reading the info and watching vast amounts of YouTube vids I think they have that issue nailed down now, obviously I'm not certain about this but it seemed a few years back you almost needed a load of different apps on your phone depending on what charging system you were using....nowadays itís just a case of tapping your debit card on the machine and plugging in.

  23. #23
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    It's still a mixed bag for me - Tesla have the charger network sussed but it needs to expand (and I still baulk at handing Musk my cash). The rest of the providers seem very hit and miss - both Schmee and Guy Martin have experienced faulty chargers, wrong accounts, blocked/occupied spaces and Guy Martin ended up paying double what the diesel bill would have been!.

    I can see the people staying local who do not drive long distances getting a good experience, the rest of us less so - for now.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by julian2002 View Post
    I think Teslas USP is the supercharger network. We had a leaf many years ago and any time we had to use a charger away from home (admittedly not often) it was a complete nightmare, refusing payment, not having the right payment card, charger out of order, charger in use or blocked by an ice car.

    maybe things have changed but I still think my first port of call come car change time in 4 years will be Elons door.
    I couldn't agree more.

    It's not about the range really, it's the reliability and speed of charging when on the road.

    We have an E-Golf, and both prefer the driving experience to any of the many ICE cars we've previously owned. It's wonderful, and i'm sure most if not all electric cars share its smoothness and responsiveness.

    It's perfect for (multiple) daily commutes and modest journeys, but I think unless you have a Tesla, with its superb, reliable fast charge network, venturing away from home is hazardous.

    The media is full of tales of woe regarding hugely stressful journeys ruined by the public charging station availability, and our experience (n=1, we won't be trying it again) is the same.

    The charging networks seem to be run by an assortment of small private companies and councils and government grants etc. It seems necessary to download a handful of apps, register with each, put credit upfront onto some of them, and then when you find a rusty, non-working charger in a back corner of a municipal car park, you'll call a number which isn't answered, before venturing off to the next town to try your luck.

    We're lucky enough to have an alternative car for long journeys but would buy a Tesla in a heartbeat if we decided to have only one car.

    Best wishes,
    Martyn.

  25. #25
    Master pacifichrono's Avatar
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    Hey Franky,

    I don't own an eV, but have been monitoring their technological progress for many years. I did just buy a 20" fat tire eBike that I love! With costs coming down and battery life growing, I think we've reached that threshold where the rank and file auto buyers/lessors are going to embrace eVs in large numbers. I live in a suburb of San Diego, CA and it seems like every other car here is a Tesla!

    Good luck, and keep us informed!

    Tom

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by pacifichrono View Post
    Hey Franky,

    I don't own an eV, but have been monitoring their technological progress for many years. I did just buy a 20" fat tire eBike that I love! With costs coming down and battery life growing, I think we've reached that threshold where the rank and file auto buyers/lessors are going to embrace eVs in large numbers. I live in a suburb of San Diego, CA and it seems like every other car here is a Tesla!

    Good luck, and keep us informed!

    Tom
    Do you have solar power at home?....if so Iím guessing youíll have many more hours daylight (sunlight) than us Brits and EV cars make even more sense.
    Ive seen a Zappi charger thatís extremely smart which diverts any power not used by the house directly to the EV. During the summer months Iím producing 2.6kw and using only about 500w in the house. I know this will only trickle the battery but itís literally something for nothing rather than sending to the grid.

  27. #27
    Master pacifichrono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Do you have solar power at home?....if so Iím guessing youíll have many more hours daylight (sunlight) than us Brits and EV cars make even more sense.
    Ive seen a Zappi charger thatís extremely smart which diverts any power not used by the house directly to the EV. During the summer months Iím producing 2.6kw and using only about 500w in the house. I know this will only trickle the battery but itís literally something for nothing rather than sending to the grid.
    Yes, we had solar panels installed a couple years ago and they're a great benefit here at our latitude and high percentage of sunshine. Got a nice tax credit, too. Our next investment will be a wall-mounted battery (Tesla?) in the garage to store excess energy produced.

  28. #28
    Master steptoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Do you have solar power at home?....if so I’m guessing you’ll have many more hours daylight (sunlight) than us Brits and EV cars make even more sense.
    Ive seen a Zappi charger that’s extremely smart which diverts any power not used by the house directly to the EV. During the summer months I’m producing 2.6kw and using only about 500w in the house. I know this will only trickle the battery but it’s literally something for nothing rather than sending to the grid.
    Quote Originally Posted by UMBROSUS View Post
    As for cost taking this modern EV runnining around 4p a mile before any duty which is sure to come look at vehical tax and the ever changing goal posts.

    Far from isolated these cars have their place and will have their tax raised I am sure but not for the mainstream man on the street yet. Huge infrastructure needed to power such a demand.
    Anyone heard of the ‘Automated and Electric Vehicles Act 2018’. Some of the act came into force in April.
    It is now illegal to sell a car charging point that cannot send and receive data.... the devil is in the detail.
    At the moment there is no way of knowing how/what you use your electricity for, heating, lighting or charging your car.

    The car charging point will let ‘someone’ know how much electricity is being consumed by your car (even if you produce all the electricity yourself, solar panels etc).
    This means the specific electric used to power your car could be taxed.... why else would they want to know this very specific usage.
    This charge will be used to cover the loss of the current fuel duty, the 57.95p per litre (plus 20% vat).
    So don't do any long term plans on expected fuel savings.
    Last edited by steptoe; 11th August 2021 at 16:01.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacifichrono View Post
    Hey Franky,

    I don't own an eV, but have been monitoring their technological progress for many years. I did just buy a 20" fat tire eBike that I love! With costs coming down and battery life growing.
    Good luck, and keep us informed!
    Tom
    Tom,
    At the risk of derailing this thread - what ebike do you have? I'm in the market for one.
    Thanks

  30. #30
    Grand Master snowman's Avatar
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    For some EVs are a viable option, less so for others.

    I regularly do round trips of over 200 miles with no easy access to household charging.

    I'm still doubtful of the availability of usable fast charging points (watched a few YT videos on the subject and the experiences have been mixed at best) to make a break along the way a practical solution and I'm not sure I want to take a 20 minute break on a 100-mile journey anyway.

    I'm sure EVs are cheap and practical to run if you do relatively short journies and have home charging capabilities, but I can't see us replacing all our vehicles with one for a while.

    My car is reasonably new, so I doubt I'll change it in the near future unless my requirements changed dramatically, but we would certainly consider an EV for a second car as there aren't too many occasions where my wife and I both need a car with 200+ miles range at the same time.

    M
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  31. #31
    Master Mouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    They come with free chargers and I can utilise the bulb or octopus night time tariff of about 6p per kWh to charge.
    FFF
    I'm genuinely interested to learn how you've been quoted 6p/kWh (night) with bulb. We've been with bulb for years (economy 7) and our night tariff is 13.52p at the moment. AFAIK their tariffs are non-geographic and there's only one plan for all called 'Vari-Fair'.
    Last edited by Mouse; 10th August 2021 at 10:40.

  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
    I'm genuinely interested to learn how you've been quoted 6p/kWh (night) with bulb. We've been with bulb for years (economy 7) and our night tariff is 13.52p at the moment. AFAIK their tariffs are non-geographic.
    I received an email going back a few months ago with this specific tariff designed for EV charging, I canít quite remember the exact figures however Iím sure it was 6p per KWH between 12-4 or 1-5, canít quite remember now but Iíll try and dig it out.

  33. #33

  34. #34
    Master Mouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Many thanks.

    So a special tariff for EVs via a smart meter. East Midlands 5p/kWh ish. Almost a third the rate of what it's costing to run our washing machine/heat our hot water overnight - we are totally electric here as there is no gas at all to the village!

    This is the G&D or I'd be using numerous expletives. I think I'll be having a chat with bulb (not that it'll change anything, but a good rant will make me feel better).

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
    Many thanks.

    So a special tariff for EVs via a smart meter. East Midlands 5p/kWh ish. Almost a third the rate of what it's costing to run our washing machine/heat our hot water overnight - we are totally electric here as there is no gas at all to the village!

    This is the G&D or I'd be using numerous expletives. I think I'll be having a chat with bulb (not that it'll change anything, but a good rant will make me feel better).
    Obviously what I failed to mention was that it does slightly put the standard daytime rate up and youíd have to do the maths overall but itís seems to make sense on the face of it

  36. #36
    Master Mouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Obviously what I failed to mention was that it does slightly put the standard daytime rate up and you’d have to do the maths overall but it’s seems to make sense on the face of it
    Gotcha. It's clearly a low (tempter) rate to instigate EV take-up and is being subsidised (for now) somewhere - maybe gov, but also seemingly via its 'basic customers'. But it really is taking the micky when my washer costs almost three times more to run than it does a car. It's all the same electricity for goodness sake.

    This country!

  37. #37
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
    Many thanks.

    So a special tariff for EVs via a smart meter. East Midlands 5p/kWh ish. Almost a third the rate of what it's costing to run our washing machine/heat our hot water overnight - we are totally electric here as there is no gas at all to the village!

    This is the G&D or I'd be using numerous expletives. I think I'll be having a chat with bulb (not that it'll change anything, but a good rant will make me feel better).
    It does state that itís still in beta phase so hasnít yet been fully rolled out and that they are only taking on limited numbers for the trial.

  38. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    It does state that it’s still in beta phase so hasn’t yet been fully rolled out and that they are only taking on limited numbers for the trial.
    Octopus also do an EV tariff which appears to be 5p per kWh fixed between similar hours. Don’t think this is a beta and is already in full operation

    Edit: you can also lease vehicles through them which seem competitively priced with free 8000 miles included.

  39. #39
    One thing that frustrates me when I read about EVís is a focus on the luxury/highly priced/high performance end of the market when the big change to emissions will surely be driven by adoption at the cheaper end. The other thing I genuinely donít get is continued reliance on all the heavy, power sapping and - letís be frank - luxury frippery we have grown to expect in a car but surely we should ditch to increase range in an EV? Whatís wrong with manual wind windows, forget the electrically adjustable, heated seats and steering wheels (youíve got hands to move the seat and a heater ffs!), hey maybe even the aircon here in the uk - we managed without all these things in the past and I canít say my life has really been enhanced by them, they just started appearing as standard. Give me a modern electric version of the 2cv with airbags and decent safety systems and Iíd buy one - imagine the running costs if the only bits could go wrong could be fixed easily at home, with a box of spanners and screwdrivers etc. If we are going to take emissions seriously we should produce the cars we need as opposed to the cars manufacturers tell us we want - like an ugly, heavy high performance electric Ďmustangí which look like nothing of the sort! - and maybe focus on range as opposed to silly 0-60 times that might turn on the petrol heads, but Mr and Mrs average just want to know if they can get to their holiday without recharging twice on the journey!


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  40. #40
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobDad View Post
    One thing that frustrates me when I read about EVís is a focus on the luxury/highly priced/high performance end of the market when the big change to emissions will surely be driven by adoption at the cheaper end. The other thing I genuinely donít get is continued reliance on all the heavy, power sapping and - letís be frank - luxury frippery we have grown to expect in a car but surely we should ditch to increase range in an EV? Whatís wrong with manual wind windows, forget the electrically adjustable, heated seats and steering wheels (youíve got hands to move the seat and a heater ffs!), hey maybe even the aircon here in the uk - we managed without all these things in the past and I canít say my life has really been enhanced by them, they just started appearing as standard. Give me a modern electric version of the 2cv with airbags and decent safety systems and Iíd buy one - imagine the running costs if the only bits could go wrong could be fixed easily at home, with a box of spanners and screwdrivers etc. If we are going to take emissions seriously we should produce the cars we need as opposed to the cars manufacturers tell us we want - like an ugly, heavy high performance electric Ďmustangí which look like nothing of the sort! - and maybe focus on range as opposed to silly 0-60 times that might turn on the petrol heads, but Mr and Mrs average just want to know if they can get to their holiday without recharging twice on the journey!
    Have you thought about a horse and cart?
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  41. #41

    Electric cars-got to be a viable option now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    Have you thought about a horse and cart?
    I guess Iím thinking more 80ís Golf or similar - all the cars now heralded as modern classics that lacked even power steering but somehow even as a 17 year old I could manage a 3 point turn without breaking a sweat. Imagine a millennial driving with their hands on a cold steering wheel or just opening a window on a hot day, how would they cope? Poor diddums. Oh hang on, theyíre the ones keen on saving the planet. You canít make an omelette without breaking a few eggs, or god forbid operating a window using your arm muscles - although your Apple Watch would probably count that as steps on your elliptical trainer, so it would all turn out right in the end ;) ÖÖ


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  42. #42
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Electric cars-got to be a viable option now?

    Quote Originally Posted by RobDad View Post
    One thing that frustrates me when I read about EVís is a focus on the luxury/highly priced/high performance end of the market when the big change to emissions will surely be driven by adoption at the cheaper end. The other thing I genuinely donít get is continued reliance on all the heavy, power sapping and - letís be frank - luxury frippery we have grown to expect in a car but surely we should ditch to increase range in an EV? Whatís wrong with manual wind windows, forget the electrically adjustable, heated seats and steering wheels (youíve got hands to move the seat and a heater ffs!), hey maybe even the aircon here in the uk - we managed without all these things in the past and I canít say my life has really been enhanced by them, they just started appearing as standard. Give me a modern electric version of the 2cv with airbags and decent safety systems and Iíd buy one - imagine the running costs if the only bits could go wrong could be fixed easily at home, with a box of spanners and screwdrivers etc. If we are going to take emissions seriously we should produce the cars we need as opposed to the cars manufacturers tell us we want - like an ugly, heavy high performance electric Ďmustangí which look like nothing of the sort! - and maybe focus on range as opposed to silly 0-60 times that might turn on the petrol heads, but Mr and Mrs average just want to know if they can get to their holiday without recharging twice on the journey!


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    On my van, all the peripheral electrical frippery (not much, granted) is powered by a separate 12v battery where a normal car battery would be. Apart from the air con so I donít use that. I open a window (electrically) instead.

    I do agree that all modern cars have all sorts of electrical gear which is unnecessary and doesnít get used which the car could do without but most of the heavy weight stuff is the now mandatory safety equipment.

    It is counterintuitive but a larger (or additional) motor (hence greater performance) in an EV allows for greater regeneration and therefore greater economy. Look at the Tesla specs; the four wheel drive cars generally have a greater range than the equivalent two wheel drive and are more powerful but have the same size battery.
    Last edited by Dave+63; 10th August 2021 at 12:11.

  43. #43
    Craftsman
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobDad View Post
    One thing that frustrates me when I read about EV’s is a focus on the luxury/highly priced/high performance end of the market when the big change to emissions will surely be driven by adoption at the cheaper end. The other thing I genuinely don’t get is continued reliance on all the heavy, power sapping and - let’s be frank - luxury frippery we have grown to expect in a car but surely we should ditch to increase range in an EV? What’s wrong with manual wind windows, forget the electrically adjustable, heated seats and steering wheels (you’ve got hands to move the seat and a heater ffs!), hey maybe even the aircon here in the uk - we managed without all these things in the past and I can’t say my life has really been enhanced by them, they just started appearing as standard. Give me a modern electric version of the 2cv with airbags and decent safety systems and I’d buy one - imagine the running costs if the only bits could go wrong could be fixed easily at home, with a box of spanners and screwdrivers etc. If we are going to take emissions seriously we should produce the cars we need as opposed to the cars manufacturers tell us we want - like an ugly, heavy high performance electric ‘mustang’ which look like nothing of the sort! - and maybe focus on range as opposed to silly 0-60 times that might turn on the petrol heads, but Mr and Mrs average just want to know if they can get to their holiday without recharging twice on the journey!


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    Steering wheel and seat heaters are more efficient than then normal car resistive heater - why heat whole cabin when you are only using like 20% of it. Resistive heaters are archaic, slowly being replaced with heat pumps.
    Last edited by kildareman; 10th August 2021 at 12:38.

  44. #44
    Grand Master
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    Chap at work bought a Prius that had been used as a taxi from new,bought it with 275k on the clock and no issues whatsever.
    When and if I go hybrid Ill certainly be looking at what taxi drivers have been driving,no better group off people to prove the reliability of certain brands imo.


  45. #45
    Grand Master
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    In the not too distant future electric cars will not be the viable solution to the greener planet we need as Governments have had us believe.
    Last edited by P9CLY; 21st October 2023 at 09:33.


  46. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by P9CLY View Post
    In the not too distant future electric cars will not be the viable solution to the greener planet we need as Governments have had us believe.
    You really have to add some explanation for this to be viewed as anything other than gibberish.
    "Bite my shiny metal ass."
    - Bender Bending RodrŪguez

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by stooo View Post
    You really have to add some explanation for this to be viewed as anything other than gibberish.
    It is more of an observation of the infrastructure we have now,and getting it all in place to work seamlessly for the future.

    Its my opinion it wont be achievable to have all electric vehicles....I just dont see it.

    Others have their opinion too.


  48. #48
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P9CLY View Post
    It is more of an observation of the infrastructure we have now,and getting it all in place to work seamlessly for the future.

    Its my opinion it wont be achievable to have all electric vehicles....I just dont see it.

    Others have their opinion too.
    They probably said the same about the internal combustion engine one hundred and twenty years ago.

  49. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by P9CLY View Post
    It is more of an observation of the infrastructure we have now,and getting it all in place to work seamlessly for the future.

    Its my opinion it wont be achievable to have all electric vehicles....I just dont see it.

    Others have their opinion too.
    Yes its all opinion, i see it differently. Theres less than 10k fuel stations in the UK serving 33 million cars. From Sept 22 to Sept 23 the number of charging points increased 40% to a little under 50k, that number growing all the time. Vast number of people can charge at home and or work. A lot more people are capable to charge from home some cant. Im sure we’ll be fine…obs just my opinion
    Last edited by Franky Four Fingers; 21st October 2023 at 14:11.

  50. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by P9CLY View Post
    It is more of an observation of the infrastructure we have now,and getting it all in place to work seamlessly for the future.

    Its my opinion it wont be achievable to have all electric vehicles....I just dont see it.

    Others have their opinion too.
    I think it is almost impossible to calculate... The vast majority of EVs will charge at home/work and so rarely need a charging station. But when they do, they need to occupy it for longer.

    The one certainty with technology is that it will solve today's problems far faster than we all think and charging speeds will reduce massively as range also increases.

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