Electric cars-got to be a viable option now?

[forpetesake]

Hopefully a big player outside the car world will get involved (Sony/apple/Fuji/Panasonic) and start selling vehicles to get you somewhere without all the willy waving that’s ingrained into cars.

For me, the key to long and enjoyable ownership of cars and vans is choosing the right engine, usually something that doesn't have to be worked too hard.
I have found a similar thing with cordless power tools, where the battery is everything. So many generations of useable tools have been prematurely replaced not because of mechanical failure, but because the batteries were screwed. OEM batteries became disproportionately expensive relative to a new bundle of tools and clone batteries have always proved to be crap.
So last time I decided to find the best batteries and choose a tool brand which used them. My homework came up with Panasonic (who manufacture both batteries and tools) and they are now my preferred brand.
Based on this (possibly irrelevant) experience, "Powered By Panasonic" on the rear end of an EV would certainly get my attention.

[Brighty]

For me, the key to long and enjoyable ownership of cars and vans is choosing the right engine, usually something that doesn't have to be worked too hard.
I have found a similar thing with cordless power tools, where the battery is everything. So many generations of useable tools have been prematurely replaced not because of mechanical failure, but because the batteries were screwed. OEM batteries became disproportionately expensive relative to a new bundle of tools and clone batteries have always proved to be crap.
So last time I decided to find the best batteries and choose a tool brand which used them. My homework came up with Panasonic (who manufacture both batteries and tools) and they are now my preferred brand.
Based on this (possibly irrelevant) experience, "Powered By Panasonic" on the rear end of an EV would certainly get my attention.

There's a good chance a few cars do have Panasonic cells. My main gripe with ev car batteries is there's nothing clever about them, they are just plastic boxes stuffed full of 18650 or 21700 battery cells, laptop battery cells, or electronic vape batteries, same is in your power tools or robot lawn mower, hundreds or even thousands of them. The extra weight that must involve over something bespoke like a scaled up mobile phone battery is mind boggling. The big players in 18650 and 21700 cells are Sony, Samsung, LG and Panasonic, so pretty much any ev car will be filled with one of those

[Franky Four Fingers]

For me, the key to long and enjoyable ownership of cars and vans is choosing the right engine, usually something that doesn't have to be worked too hard.
I have found a similar thing with cordless power tools, where the battery is everything. So many generations of useable tools have been prematurely replaced not because of mechanical failure, but because the batteries were screwed. OEM batteries became disproportionately expensive relative to a new bundle of tools and clone batteries have always proved to be crap.
So last time I decided to find the best batteries and choose a tool brand which used them. My homework came up with Panasonic (who manufacture both batteries and tools) and they are now my preferred brand.
Based on this (possibly irrelevant) experience, "Powered By Panasonic" on the rear end of an EV would certainly get my attention.

I think Panasonic are already deeply connected to the EV development already.

[Captain Morgan]

It is amazing the breadth of ev’s available in China compared to NA & EU all the way from 2 seat city cars to large SUV’s

They seem significantly cheap than the current offerings in our markets. It really can’t be long until more of them start reaching out shores.

[DONGinsler]

I'm sure some have already said it, but only read a small number of posts.

Unless they get the prices down to a price that the everyday man can afford. They will never replace the gas automobile.

If the government forces manufactures to produce electric only. I would guess 75% of gas car owners couldn't afford to buy (just making up a number). Current cheapest electric cars in Canada start at $40,000 + 13% tax and those are base model cars

$45,000 is equal to about 2 Corolla models (last Toyota I had lasted 16 years). At 40K+ I would get maybe 15 years, so why bother

Last. The car would need to be able to travel at least 1000 miles between charges. Current span sucks and and car couldn't be used for any vacations as time would be wasted charging the car.

Why hasn't anyone figured out how to install a small self enclosed alternators at all four wheels and recharge the battery while driving? Toyota has something on the Prius models that when you brake. It creates energy and charges the battery.

Not a mechanic, so no flames

DON

[mk2driver]

I'm sure some have already said it, but only read a small number of posts.

Unless they get the prices down to a price that the everyday man can afford. They will never replace the gas automobile.

If the government forces manufactures to produce electric only. I would guess 75% of gas car owners couldn't afford to buy (just making up a number). Current cheapest electric cars in Canada start at $40,000 + 13% tax and those are base model cars

$45,000 is equal to about 2 Corolla models (last Toyota I had lasted 16 years). At 40K+ I would get maybe 15 years, so why bother

Last. The car would need to be able to travel at least 1000 miles between charges. Current span sucks and and car couldn't be used for any vacations as time would be wasted charging the car.

Why hasn't anyone figured out how to install a small self enclosed alternators at all four wheels and recharge the battery while driving? Toyota has something on the Prius models that when you brake. It creates energy and charges the battery.

Not a mechanic, so no flames

DON

Perry much every electric car has regenerative braking but energy cannot be created or destroyed

As such you can only recover some of the energy that you had stored in your battery at the start but you have obviously used energy to propel the vehicle which you cannot get back

In terms of the range - if you were driving 1000 miles (an extreme use case in itself) how many times would you stop and for how long normally?

Personally as a minimum I want 30-60 minutes rest every 3 hours to stretch legs, use the toilet, grab food etc with some longer stops if i wanted

Assuming a 60mph average speed which is rare here but more likely in Canada then that’s every 180 miles

My I-Pace at a high speed charger will gain around 0-80% charge in about 45 minutes so fits with my stopping profile

Normally at the minute with a 3 year old I would be stopping every 2 hours at best as well

[jaytip]

I’m baffled by why it would need a 1000 mile range?*??
Are you planning on doing a Top Gear challenge against some train or something?
How many ICE cars have a 1000 mile range?


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[Dave+63]

I’m baffled by why it would need a 1000 mile range?*??
Are you planning on doing a Top Gear challenge against some train or something?
How many ICE cars have a 1000 mile range?


Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

1000 miles is, as mentioned previously, completely unnecessary for anyone. No one can safely drive for 1000 miles without stopping.

That said, Jeremy Clarkson drove a diesel A8 from London to Edinburgh and back on a single tank with enough diesel left over to have covered over 1000 miles. He didn’t do it without stops en route and an overnight in Edinburgh.

[Dave+63]

I'm sure some have already said it, but only read a small number of posts.

Unless they get the prices down to a price that the everyday man can afford. They will never replace the gas automobile.

If the government forces manufactures to produce electric only. I would guess 75% of gas car owners couldn't afford to buy (just making up a number). Current cheapest electric cars in Canada start at $40,000 + 13% tax and those are base model cars

$45,000 is equal to about 2 Corolla models (last Toyota I had lasted 16 years). At 40K+ I would get maybe 15 years, so why bother

Last. The car would need to be able to travel at least 1000 miles between charges. Current span sucks and and car couldn't be used for any vacations as time would be wasted charging the car.

Why hasn't anyone figured out how to install a small self enclosed alternators at all four wheels and recharge the battery while driving? Toyota has something on the Prius models that when you brake. It creates energy and charges the battery.

Not a mechanic, so no flames

DON

This is either meant as a joke or top trolling!

[Martylaa]

Seems to be a case of those who are fortunate to be able to afford them will own one at some point informing everyone else how fantastic they are.

Then there are those like me who simply cannot afford them with their current prices, and are sceptical on local charging and trips further afield without the hassle of having to pull over somewhere and wait potentially up to an hour to get moving again depending on finding a charging point.

My position is I get a lease deal every two years, and basically go for a model I can get trying to keep around the £300 - £350 per month mark because that’s basically as much as I want to spend on a car.

Until electric cars prices come down and lease deals or pcp deals become attractive ( having spent a couple of days pricing up some ridiculous lease deal prices for a EV I would actually be happy to own) then most people will stick to what they know and suits them best which is clearly petrol or diesel cars (atm).

Plus I’m waiting for the UK government to catch up and start seeing what they can tax on EV’s to bring the game to a more level playing field.

So for me the initial question is no, not yet are they a viable option.

I will be keeping a close eye on any attractive Hyundai or Kia EV deals for next year, then I may be able to have a proper look at owning one if it suits me at a good lease deal rate, don’t think that’ll happen next year but maybe the next time my lease deal is up for renewal it could be a different story.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Martylaa]

Double post..

[Captain Morgan]

Unless they get the prices down to a price that the everyday man can afford. They will never replace the gas automobile.

If the government forces manufactures to produce electric only. I would guess 75% of gas car owners couldn't afford to buy (just making up a number). Current cheapest electric cars in Canada start at $40,000 + 13% tax and those are base model cars

It’s a bit like car production before the model t is it not, someone has to build them to establish and refine the change in technology, that’s expensive and as it scales the economies come and we either get cheaper cars or greater profits for the car companies. See my earlier posts about options in China not current imported into NA or EU.

I strongly suspect that by the ice new sale ban in Canada in 2035 there will be more options.

Last. The car would need to be able to travel at least 1000 miles between charges. Current span sucks and and car couldn't be used for any vacations as time would be wasted charging the car.

I’ve spent a fair amount of time in your country, mainly in BC and have traveled between Vancouver and the Kootenay’s quite a number of times.

Normally a 7 hour plus road trip, plus stops for food and gas. I don’t recall ever doing it in less than 8.

Looking at doing the same trip in a Tesla model 3 long range is 7:51 including one charging stop of 37mins at approximately half way.
A Hyundai Kona is two charge stops and a about 8:30.
The extend range Ford Mustang-E, two stops and 8:21.

I understand distances and attitudes to road trips are different out there but I don’t believe it’s necessary as bad as you paint it.

Why hasn't anyone figured out how to install a small self enclosed alternators at all four wheels and recharge the battery while driving? Toyota has something on the Prius models that when you brake. It creates energy and charges the battery.

You need to check in with Jack, he has some magic beans for sale…

As a few folk have pointed out, we do facts here on tz-uk…

[AlphaOmega]

Hold up.

If we know about tech that creates energy, we have a responsibility to inform the government.

[Tooks]

My position is I get a lease deal every two years, and basically go for a model I can get trying to keep around the £300 - £350 per month mark because that’s basically as much as I want to spend on a car.

£350 a month plus whatever you’re spending on petrol or diesel a month should get you a good EV even allowing for some charging costs. You did caveat it with ‘something you’d want to drive’ though, so it depends on what that is.

Plus I’m waiting for the UK government to catch up and start seeing what they can tax on EV’s to bring the game to a more level playing field.

The government don’t want it to be a ‘level playing field’ at the moment, they’re trying to encourage people to switch. Whilst we all know they’ll be looking to tax them more heavily at some point (it’s what govts do, right?), raising taxes at this point would hardly encourage people to do that. I still think they’ll take a tax stick to ICE vehicles first, but who knows.

Pricing and availability have definitely been impacted by semi-conductor shortages, that will hopefully settle down soon for all vehicles.

I say again, I’m not a wealthy man, I definitely wouldn’t see EVs as some kind of rich mans playground as both ours cost a lot less than higher end German petrol or diesel saloons for example.

[DONGinsler]

I’m baffled by why it would need a 1000 mile range?*??
Are you planning on doing a Top Gear challenge against some train or something?
How many ICE cars have a 1000 mile range?


Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

It's not the 1000 range per say, but how long someone could drive by taking a few minute to fill up a tank with gas and continue driving.

My father drove from Toronto, to Florida in about 2.5 days - 2100 miles with one or two nights stay in a hotel

My brother in 2 days

My niece and husband did it non-stop by changing drivers - stopping for gassing up when needed.

Current electric cars - 250 miles with 8 hour charge time. Calculate the time it would take to drive 2100 miles. Even with a 500 mile range. It would still take more than 5 days to drive the same distance with charging and added expense of overnight hotel stays.

Pretty much useless for any long distance vacation drive. Its a close to home car/city car.

So unless you can get a 1000 mile range out of the battery without having to charge it ever 250 miles. It's not going to replace any ones choice over a gas auto.

DON

[Tooks]

Current electric cars - 250 miles with 8 hour charge time. Calculate the time it would take to drive 2100 miles. Even with a 500 mile range. It would still take more than 5 days to drive the same distance with charging and added expense of overnight hotel stays.

Pretty much useless for any long distance vacation drive. Its a close to home car/city car.

So unless you can get a 1000 mile range out of the battery without having to charge it ever 250 miles. It's not going to replace any ones choice over a gas auto.

DON

I don’t know precisely what electric cars are available on the Canadian market, but just about every EV I can think of for sale here in the U.K. can recharge from 10% to 80% anywhere from 30-60 mins when away from home using a high power/rapid charger.

Whilst not the long trips you’re talking about, I did a near 500 mile trip non-stop in my ID.3 in 10.5 hours, less than 1.5 hours of that was spent charging.

If charging infrastructure is scarce, then I can see why people feel an EV can only work for them with big ranges, but if the infrastructure is there then it becomes less of an issue. I had a break from driving and ate/drank on my 2 and a bit stops.

Even if my EV could have done it without stopping, I’d still have had to.

[Dave+63]

It's not the 1000 range per say, but how long someone could drive by taking a few minute to fill up a tank with gas and continue driving.

My father drove from Toronto, to Florida in about 2.5 days - 2100 miles with one or two nights stay in a hotel

My brother in 2 days

My niece and husband did it non-stop by changing drivers - stopping for gassing up when needed.

These are hardly typical journeys and I can’t believe that your niece and husband didn’t stop at any time to eat, go to the loo, stretch their legs etc.

Current electric cars - 250 miles with 8 hour charge time. Calculate the time it would take to drive 2100 miles. Even with a 500 mile range. It would still take more than 5 days to drive the same distance with charging and added expense of overnight hotel stays.

Pretty much useless for any long distance vacation drive. Its a close to home car/city car

EVs don’t take 8 hours to charge on rapid chargers; the latest 350kw chargers can charge 100kwhr (300 miles approx) in about twenty minutes.

So unless you can get a 1000 mile range out of the battery without having to charge it ever 250 miles. It's not going to replace any ones choice over a gas auto.
DON

You’re clearly wrong there because many people are choosing electric over gasoline. Maybe you wouldn’t choose one but you aren’t everyone.

[Captain Morgan]

It's not the 1000 range per say, but how long someone could drive by taking a few minute to fill up a tank with gas and continue driving.

My father drove from Toronto, to Florida in about 2.5 days - 2100 miles with one or two nights stay in a hotel

My brother in 2 days

My niece and husband did it non-stop by changing drivers - stopping for gassing up when needed.

Current electric cars - 250 miles with 8 hour charge time. Calculate the time it would take to drive 2100 miles. Even with a 500 mile range. It would still take more than 5 days to drive the same distance with charging and added expense of overnight hotel stays.

Pretty much useless for any long distance vacation drive. Its a close to home car/city car.

So unless you can get a 1000 mile range out of the battery without having to charge it ever 250 miles. It's not going to replace any ones choice over a gas auto.

DON

Sure, 22h 52m, five charging stops all less than a hour, 21-41 mins to be precise, any less than that might be considered unsafe - no?



Or perhaps in the Mustang with seven stops, 26h 52m



Though with the gas savings though the year you could always drive the ev for 90% of your journeys and just rent a gas car for long trips but it doesn’t seem a must.

We do like facts here on tz-uk…

[Dave+63]

Sure, 22h 52m, five charging stops all less than a hour, 21-41 mins to be precise, any less than that might be considered unsafe - no?



Or perhaps in the Mustang with seven stops, 26h 52m



Though with the gas savings though the year you could always drive the ev for 90% of your journeys and just rent a gas car for long trips but it doesn’t seem a must.

We do like facts here on tz-uk…

800 miles shorter in an EV too!

[Captain Morgan]

800 miles shorter in an EV too!

Who knows, even if you make it Miami Beach instead of Universal Studios it only adds on another ~175 miles and a extra charge stop???

[Martylaa]

It is amazing the breadth of ev’s available in China compared to NA & EU all the way from 2 seat city cars to large SUV’s

They seem significantly cheap than the current offerings in our markets. It really can’t be long until more of them start reaching out shores.

So you are pinning your hopes on the future of cheap EV’s from China?

The worlds biggest polluter?

How ironic?


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[Captain Morgan]

So you are pinning your hopes on the future of cheap EV’s from China?

The worlds biggest polluter?

How ironic?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What device did you type your insightful question on and what country was it manufactured in?

As for your question, could you show me where I’ve said my hopes are pinned on Chinese cars?

I think you’ll find you can’t and I’ve simply observed two things, one that the number of options in China is significantly more than in NA or the EU, two that it is surprising that they have not taken the opportunity to profit from this gap, I also intimated that if the EU and NA makers don’t start to fill that gap then then I’m sure the Chinese will.

Now with all that said I suspect if we looked at any car on sale today in the U.K. be they ice or ev we wouldn’t find any without a significant proportion of Chinese made components, what do you think?

[Dave+63]

Both MG and Polstar are Chinese EVs.

There may be others but those two I’m certain of.

[Sweepinghand]

It's not the 1000 range per say, but how long someone could drive by taking a few minute to fill up a tank with gas and continue driving.

My father drove from Toronto, to Florida in about 2.5 days - 2100 miles with one or two nights stay in a hotel

My brother in 2 days

My niece and husband did it non-stop by changing drivers - stopping for gassing up when needed.

Current electric cars - 250 miles with 8 hour charge time. Calculate the time it would take to drive 2100 miles. Even with a 500 mile range. It would still take more than 5 days to drive the same distance with charging and added expense of overnight hotel stays.

Pretty much useless for any long distance vacation drive. Its a close to home car/city car.

So unless you can get a 1000 mile range out of the battery without having to charge it ever 250 miles. It's not going to replace any ones choice over a gas auto.

DON

8 hour charge time - pmsl
You’d use a rapid charger so about 25 mins back to full from 15%
There are EVs offering more than that range too
What’s the big competition piece?


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[RobDad]

Until you can get 1000 miles out of a couple of Duracell AA’s I’m not interested. That’s all you needed for a Walkman in the 80’s, you can’t tell me they won’t run a car for 1000 miles in 2021. And I want a sub 5 seconds 0-60 whilst your at it. My Walkman had auto- reverse and Dolby B so it can’t be that hard surely?


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[Franky Four Fingers]

https://youtu.be/pXvB9-7ciMU

[aa388]

1000 miles is, as mentioned previously, completely unnecessary for anyone. No one can safely drive for 1000 miles without stopping.

That said, Jeremy Clarkson drove a diesel A8 from London to Edinburgh and back on a single tank with enough diesel left over to have covered over 1000 miles. He didn’t do it without stops en route and an overnight in Edinburgh.

I drive on average 9 hours a day 5 or 6 days a week and that’s enough for anyone!!


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[ryanb741]

Seems like houses are a bigger risk to climate changes than cars according to this report;

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/h...cles-rm5wqbgl5

[Martylaa]

What device did you type your insightful question on and what country was it manufactured in?

As for your question, could you show me where I’ve said my hopes are pinned on Chinese cars?

I think you’ll find you can’t and I’ve simply observed two things, one that the number of options in China is significantly more than in NA or the EU, two that it is surprising that they have not taken the opportunity to profit from this gap, I also intimated that if the EU and NA makers don’t start to fill that gap then then I’m sure the Chinese will.

Now with all that said I suspect if we looked at any car on sale today in the U.K. be they ice or ev we wouldn’t find any without a significant proportion of Chinese made components, what do you think?

Apologies, i've read your initial post wrongly then...

[Dave+63]

My position is I get a lease deal every two years, and basically go for a model I can get trying to keep around the £300 - £350 per month mark because that’s basically as much as I want to spend on a car.

Until electric cars prices come down and lease deals or pcp deals become attractive ( having spent a couple of days pricing up some ridiculous lease deal prices for a EV I would actually be happy to own) then most people will stick to what they know and suits them best which is clearly petrol or diesel cars (atm).

Plus I’m waiting for the UK government to catch up and start seeing what they can tax on EV’s to bring the game to a more level playing field.

So for me the initial question is no, not yet are they a viable option.

I will be keeping a close eye on any attractive Hyundai or Kia EV deals for next year, then I may be able to have a proper look at owning one if it suits me at a good lease deal rate, don’t think that’ll happen next year but maybe the next time my lease deal is up for renewal it could be a different story.

How about this then?

https://www.rivervaleleasing.co.uk/c...m_medium=email

[Martylaa]

How about this then?

https://www.rivervaleleasing.co.uk/c...m_medium=email

Thanks, saw it yesterday and sent off an inquiry, it is a good price, maybe not the best looking and some reviews say the boot and back are on the smaller size but I’ve enquired anyway, the cars I’d like to possibly see about getting would the Ioniq5 in a nice decent spec or maybe the new Kia EV6.

I’ve actually just come back from a VW dealer to see the ID3 but it looked bloody awful and was as basic as they come, plus I’m sure I read they use drum brakes? It’s not for me anyway.

[Dave+63]

I believe that they do have drums on the rear but with EVs, most of the braking is done by the drive motor so brake pads and shoes last forever. Drums in the rear are plenty.

They’re also pushing the id4 at the moment. It’s a larger car but smaller battery.

https://www.rivervaleleasing.co.uk/c...m_medium=email

[stuie-t]

Seems like houses are a bigger risk to climate changes than cars according to this report;

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/h...cles-rm5wqbgl5

If getting all cars to be 0 emission, which on average are scrapped when 10 years old is a big challenge then doing the same for houses which typically last decades if not centuries will be a much more difficult and expensive.
Makes sense to start with cars.

I think I read that hydrogen was also being considered as an option for gas central heating, maybe that would be the catalyst for hydrogen cars too if you can just fill up at home like an EV.


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[Kingstepper]

If getting all cars to be 0 emission, which on average are scrapped when 10 years old is a big challenge then doing the same for houses which typically last decades if not centuries will be a much more difficult and expensive.
Makes sense to start with cars.

I think I read that hydrogen was also being considered as an option for gas central heating, maybe that would be the catalyst for hydrogen cars too if you can just fill up at home like an EV.


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H2 is the only option for gas central heating in new builds from 2025.

[Tooks]

Thanks, saw it yesterday and sent off an inquiry, it is a good price, maybe not the best looking and some reviews say the boot and back are on the smaller size but I’ve enquired anyway, the cars I’d like to possibly see about getting would the Ioniq5 in a nice decent spec or maybe the new Kia EV6.

I’ve actually just come back from a VW dealer to see the ID3 but it looked bloody awful and was as basic as they come, plus I’m sure I read they use drum brakes? It’s not for me anyway.

Like a lot of cars, the ID.3 is very trim specific, was it a ‘Life’ you looked at? The seat material looks like something out of a 1980s caravan…

Mine is a 1st Edition, with lots more kit as standard over the series models. I definitely don’t like them all!

The drum brake thing is correct, but they’re huge and meant to last the life of the vehicle. They solve the problem of rear discs/calipers corroding on EVs though lack of use. They certainly work well anyway.

[Martylaa]

Like a lot of cars, the ID.3 is very trim specific, was it a ‘Life’ you looked at? The seat material looks like something out of a 1980s caravan…

Mine is a 1st Edition, with lots more kit as standard over the series models. I definitely don’t like them all!

The drum brake thing is correct, but they’re huge and meant to last the life of the vehicle. They solve the problem of rear discs/calipers corroding on EVs though lack of use. They certainly work well anyway.

Not sure what edition it was, no stickers on it and none of the salesmen seemed interested, hence a quick look at it and sit in it, it may of been the most basic version but boy it showed if it was.

Anyway i'll be going to have a look over a Hyundai, Kia and a Skoda dealership to see how their cars look in the flesh.

[Tooks]

Not sure what edition it was, no stickers on it and none of the salesmen seemed interested, hence a quick look at it and sit in it, it may of been the most basic version but boy it showed if it was.

Anyway i'll be going to have a look over a Hyundai, Kia and a Skoda dealership to see how their cars look in the flesh.

I haven’t sat in one of the new Hyundai or Kia’s (P45/EV6) but the Skoda Enyaq I liked and was a bit more traditional with more buttons inside, but a good blend of old meets new I thought.

[RobDad]

It probably makes no difference to many car buyers, but I find most of the Hyundai/Kia/MG car designs actively ugly, to the point I just couldn’t part with the cash to own one. The VW ID3 is no looker but it doesn’t look like a half sucked boiled sweet with spurious angles, vents and 4 different fonts on the back demoting the name, model etc. I’d prefer the VW with fewer gadgets tbh!


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[Franky Four Fingers]

The Ionic5 is certainly marmite, I like the look from some angles and not the other
There’s also a weird trim that catches your ankle when you get in.
The insides a bit weird but has some good ideas like the movable centre console between the seats. I also looked a a special addition 45 that had a solar roof which isn’t staying


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[Pitch3110]

I haven’t sat in one of the new Hyundai or Kia’s (P45/EV6) but the Skoda Enyaq I liked and was a bit more traditional with more buttons inside, but a good blend of old meets new I thought.

More buttons????????? Buttons are so yesterday

Pitch


d20 generator

[Tooks]

More buttons????????? Buttons are so yesterday

Pitch


d20 generator

My ID.3 has only a few buttons, and even those are haptic, which I quite like.

Our Tesla feels like a step too far for me though, not enough buttons. Maybe I am a Luddite! The key card assigned with our own settings is great though, moves the seat and steering wheel etc when you get in. Im sure your Performance is the same, and in fairness it means you rarely have to touch the screen or press a button.

[Martylaa]

I believe that they do have drums on the rear but with EVs, most of the braking is done by the drive motor so brake pads and shoes last forever. Drums in the rear are plenty.

They’re also pushing the id4 at the moment. It’s a larger car but smaller battery.

https://www.rivervaleleasing.co.uk/c...m_medium=email

I’ll look at one of these sometime but the bigger battery version if the price comes down

[mactrack]

The price will have to come a long way down on something like this;

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2...-drive-review/

before I would buy one no matter how good it reportedly is.

[Franky Four Fingers]

The price will have to come a long way down on something like this;

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2...-drive-review/

before I would buy one no matter how good it reportedly is.

But I would never be in the market for that the same way I’d never be in the market for a similarly priced ice car.
This argument about cost comes up all the time and I don’t understand it.

[Tooks]

But I would never be in the market for that the same way I’d never be in the market for a similarly priced ice car.
This argument about cost comes up all the time and I don’t understand it.

Indeed. There are some fabulous ICE cars that I could never afford, just as there are some EVs in the same bracket.

Both irrelevances when considering everyday stuff.

[jaytip]

Talking of American cars. Do we think the new Model S yoke will be given the green light here in the UK and the rest of Europe?

[jaytip]

Paid a deposit on an Enyaq yesterday. I’m hoping to collect it late next week.

[Dave+63]

Paid a deposit on an Enyaq yesterday. I’m hoping to collect it late next week.

Cancelled order?

[vagabond]

My ID.3 has only a few buttons, and even those are haptic, which I quite like.

Our Tesla feels like a step too far for me though, not enough buttons. Maybe I am a Luddite! The key card assigned with our own settings is great though, moves the seat and steering wheel etc when you get in. Im sure your Performance is the same, and in fairness it means you rarely have to touch the screen or press a button.

In fairness, this tech has been available for over 10 years - had this function in my 2007 BMW 3 series coupe (E92). Would alter the seat, mirrors and even radio presets etc.

Leasing seems to be the way with EVs - for me at least, it seems the sensible option.

[jaytip]

Cancelled order?

I don’t think so, but I’m not 100% sure. The car is unregistered at the moment.
I’m down in South Wales but I had to source one from a dealership in Bradford, none of the dealerships down here had anything, I had no luck with Carwow either.