Electric cars-got to be a viable option now?

[Tooks]

You are not your vehicle whether ICE or EV.

Quite.

80 K list or 400 pcm if on salary sacrifice scheme...it's all about the money and perceptions.

Although that’s a bit contradictory?

You don’t need to buy such an expensive car to drive an EV, just like you don’t need to buy a Patek to wear a watch.

A lot of people don’t own a house or have a roof, but I don’t see many complaints about those who do and decide to fit solar panels to it.

It’s a weird place this sometimes, a mix of flaunting of wealth at the same time as communist zeal. :-D

[hogthrob]

An EV would be perfect for me. I do mostly short journeys, and have a drive.

Where it falls apart is that I like to own cars outright and keep them for several years. EVs look OK as a lease/PCP proposition, but that's not really for me. I don't have confidence in the residuals. As an example, how much were e-trons new? You can get a 60k miles 70 reg for about £20k.

Apart from the probably unfounded fears about battery life, advances in battery tech loom on the horizon, and eventually there will be battery disposal costs.

So for me, - EVs are great if you do mostly short journeys, have a drive, and lease/PCP your vehicle. As an outright ownership prospect ( which is where the bottom of the market will be), not so much.

[Tooks]

An EV would be perfect for me. I do mostly short journeys, and have a drive.

Where it falls apart is that I like to own cars outright and keep them for several years. EVs look OK as a lease/PCP proposition, but that's not really for me. I don't have confidence in the residuals. As an example, how much were e-trons new? You can get a 60k miles 70 reg for about £20k.

Apart from the probably unfounded fears about battery life, advances in battery tech loom on the horizon, and eventually there will be battery disposal costs.

So for me, - EVs are great if you do mostly short journeys, have a drive, and lease/PCP your vehicle. As an outright ownership prospect ( which is where the bottom of the market will be), not so much.

I think, as ever with this topic, it depends on your own circumstances.

I drive 20-25k miles a year, I plan to keep the car 5 years, and over that time it will have ‘saved’ me around £16k in fuel costs over a similarly sized and powered ICE, after accounting for the cost of electricity.

That does cut into the up front extra costs quite a bit, by the end of it with maintenance and tyres etc, I should be around 26p a mile even if it depreciates to £5k.

Compared to a similarly sized ICE, at £15k cheaper to buy, and with even a £10k residual, I’d be around 35p a mile with maintenance etc.

I don’t drive it solely for the cost savings though, there is a carbon and emissions benefit, but to go into that would label me a weird greenie…

So, for me, an EV makes sense for my annual mileage and makes the numbers work. I could of course have purchased a lower priced vehicle, but I like the technology and enjoy driving it, and I spend a lot of time in it.

I totally get why others have concluded a EV won’t work for them, and to be fair it’s none of my business either. :-)

[Passenger]

Quite.



Although that’s a bit contradictory?

You don’t need to buy such an expensive car to drive an EV, just like you don’t need to buy a Patek to wear a watch.

A lot of people don’t own a house or have a roof, but I don’t see many complaints about those who do and decide to fit solar panels to it.

It’s a weird place this sometimes, a mix of flaunting of wealth at the same time as communist zeal. :-D

Only sometimes? Part of what makes it so moreishly interesting, entertaining.

AND what about your own zeal for EV´s, I´m not criticising, judging fwiw.


You do still need a drive and home charging capability to really make the EV viable, as several owner commentators have averred...whether you buy it used, a 15k Dacia or 80K Polestar, and homes with their own drive almost always command a premium... thus to a degree, irrespective of cost of purchase, I suggest an EV is about the munneee, munnnee, munneee.

In contrast to an ICE car which folk´ll park on the street...though that in itself often seems bonkers to me... when we lived in Clapham there´d be Porsches, Maserati's, Range Rovers, all manner of expensive motors on the roads, very tempting for the young lads from the Estate next door with their knives and screw drivers, ...We used to watch them out the bay window, hoods up, matching clothes, they´d wander along, scratch a couple or several even, then scarper off. But I digress.

Long live TZ.

[Tooks]

AND what about your own zeal for EV´s, I´m not criticising, judging fwiw.

So shoot me, I’m interested in them and know quite a bit about them, in contrast to some. ;-)

You do still need a drive and home charging capability to really make the EV viable, as several owner commentators have averred...

Yes, and I’ve been one of them.

My own ‘business case’ falls down if I have to charge exclusively on motorway chargers at 75p per kWh.

Fortunately, nobody has to do that if they don’t want to, there are ways to make it comparable to running an ICE even without a home charger, I’ve mentioned it before though.

thus to a degree, irrespective of cost of purchase, I suggest an EV is about the munneee, munnnee, munneee.

I thought it was about the image and perception/status?!

What car purchase isn’t about money ultimately though, whatever it is?

Long live TZ.

Indeed.

[Franky Four Fingers]

Only sometimes? Part of what makes it so moreishly interesting, entertaining.

AND what about your own zeal for EV´s, I´m not criticising, judging fwiw.


You do still need a drive and home charging capability to really make the EV viable, as several owner commentators have averred...whether you buy it used, a 15k Dacia or 80K Polestar, and homes with their own drive almost always command a premium... thus to a degree, irrespective of cost of purchase, I suggest an EV is about the munneee, munnnee, munneee.

In contrast to an ICE car which folk´ll park on the street...though that in itself often seems bonkers to me... when we lived in Clapham there´d be Porsches, Maserati's, Range Rovers, all manner of expensive motors on the roads, very tempting for the young lads from the Estate next door with their knives and screw drivers, ...We used to watch them out the bay window, hoods up, matching clothes, they´d wander along, scratch a couple or several even, then scarper off. But I digress.

Long live TZ.

I think you're partially correct that it is about money, however i would bet anybody here given similar circumstances would follow the money.
For our business we have 2 VW Id5s, they were around 55k each and are costing us a just over a grand a month for the pair . We are both dog families with the need to ferry elderly parents etc and so a small car simply wont do. Last lease was a pair of Land Rovers that were costing us about £800 for the pair. To get the equivalent models now would be well in excess of the VWs and of course they are not fully electric which as you know means you cant claim x amount for corp tax and bugger all BIK. Why would i as a business commit to higher payments, higher running and servicing costs and a greater personal tax burden?
I have a charger at home and have installed a 3 phase charger at work and so personally for us they are spot on for every reason that most people complain about. Mileage is small, costs are next to nothing compared to our previous models and then you have the benefit of the ease of driving these things now…they are a joy to drive. Im not a set in stone petrol head despite my profession….in fact tbh i have no real interest in cars at all and so for me they are just 4 wheels that get me from where i need to be and back again. I don't give 2 hoots what powers it and so thats why i don't get all the angst over EVs.

[Saint-Just]

It seems fairly normal to me that an EV car owner brings in his experience, positive or not. Tooks’ is a positive one and he is in an ideal position to highlight as such the misconceptions/half truths/knee jerk reactions that non EV owners may have.
On the other hand you have been very present in this thread despite having no experience of them at all. It is entirely your privilege but criticising an EV owner for sharing his EV experience is a bit, hum, strange

Anyway, went by the 2 parking space earlier and as it says nothing about the price (or anything else, really, if you don’t have the app) but some people here may know more:

[blackal]

Having lived with an EV for over three years I did not once have ‘fuel anxiety’ and it’s a 200 mile trip to see middle kiddie and his family. 95% time I do well under 150 miles a day and my bladder plans my trips. 60’s route planning????! What the hell are you on????

Cost???? I’m now jumping back into EV ownership for 20k, I would not dream of playing that for another ICE beemer, merc or Audi. Others do and it’s absolutely fine with me, I don’t spit crap out of my keyboard at them.

Why do people who do have not a clue of real life EV experience keep judging those who choose EV and suggested they are fucking clueless.

This thread should revert back to people genuinely discussing their EV ownership and informing others thinking of it instead of brainless ill informed low life’s trolling crap.

Peace dudes

Pitch

Why do people who only speak of their own experience - think that represents the real world? Should a 150mile bladder capacity become a 'norm' of some sort?

There will be some confrontational a55holes at charging stations - it looks like some get identified beforehand.

But....................... You are right.

[Tooks]

It seems fairly normal to me that an EV car owner brings in his experience, positive or not. Tooks’ is a positive one and he is in an ideal position to highlight as such the misconceptions/half truths/knee jerk reactions that non EV owners may have.
On the other hand you have been very present in this thread despite having no experience of them at all. It is entirely your privilege but criticising an EV owner for sharing his EV experience is a bit, hum, strange

Anyway, went by the 2 parking space earlier and as it says nothing about the price (or anything else, really, if you don’t have the app) but some people here may know more:

Not sure about the Connected Kerb chargers, the ones I saw were Charge Your Street. There was additional signage saying to contact a number/email and apply for a resident RFID card at a ‘reduced rate’ versus the standard one which was 40p per kWh. Even at 40p that’s comparable to petrol/diesel per mile I suppose.

[Passenger]

So shoot me, I’m interested in them and know quite a bit about them, in contrast to some. ;-)



Yes, and I’ve been one of them.

My own ‘business case’ falls down if I have to charge exclusively on motorway chargers at 75p per kWh.

Fortunately, nobody has to do that if they don’t want to, there are ways to make it comparable to running an ICE even without a home charger, I’ve mentioned it before though.



I thought it was about the image and perception/status?!

What car purchase isn’t about money ultimately though, whatever it is?



Indeed.

Munneee buys image, perception, status, cool, identity, happiness... This is the way, the lure, the promise of the modern world, no mountains left climb, uncharted continents, feats of derring do undone...Purchases are the avatars projected out into the world in lieu of genuine achievement, see also the cult of celebrity and it's symbiotic relationship to sell stuff, stuff we don't need, to impress people we don't like or even know. Can´t recall which brand but one of the Chinese EV makers, they´ve got a model called the Trophy, ffs trophies are won in competition not purchased.

You are not your job, your car, the contents of your wallet, your artisanal knife- axe, your khakis or selvedge jeans, your watch, your... insert expensive, hip/ cool/ futuristic, item here...Do you see?
Credit to, cribbed from Fight Club, Tyler Durden
>It´s the endless need to acquire that´s got us all into the pickle we´re facing.

Not suggesting this applies to anyone here, just putting it forward, discussion on the bigger picture. I´m genuinely happy your EV fills you with so much enthusiasm and joy T...As I mentioned I think back at the start of my entry to the thread, a car to me it´s just a means to an end, I couldn´t care less as long as it goes reliably, is safe, doesn´t make my life more of a faff.

[Dave+63]

Munneee buys image, perception, status, cool, identity, happiness... This is the way, the lure, the promise of the modern world, no mountains left climb, uncharted continents, feats of derring do undone...Purchases are the avatars projected out into the world in lieu of genuine achievement, see also the cult of celebrity and it's symbiotic relationship to sell stuff, stuff we don't need, to impress people we don't like or even know. Can´t recall which brand but one of the Chinese EV makers, they´ve got a model called the Trophy, ffs trophies are won in competition not purchased.

You are not your job, your car, the contents of your wallet, your artisanal knife- axe, your khakis or selvedge jeans, your watch, your... insert expensive, hip/ cool/ futuristic, item here...Do you see?
Credit to, cribbed from Fight Club, Tyler Durden

Not suggesting this applies to anyone here, just putting it forward, discussion on the bigger picture.

Definitely worthy of discussion but absolutely nothing to do with this thread.

[Tooks]

Munneee buys image, perception, status, cool, identity, happiness... This is the way, the lure, the promise of the modern world, no mountains left climb, uncharted continents, feats of derring do undone...Purchases are the avatars projected out into the world in lieu of genuine achievement, see also the cult of celebrity and it's symbiotic relationship to sell stuff, stuff we don't need, to impress people we don't like or even know. Can´t recall which brand but one of the Chinese EV makers, they´ve got a model called the Trophy, ffs trophies are won in competition not purchased.

You are not your job, your car, the contents of your wallet, your artisanal knife- axe, your khakis or selvedge jeans, your watch, your... insert expensive, hip/ cool/ futuristic, item here...Do you see?
Credit to, cribbed from Fight Club, Tyler Durden

Not suggesting this applies to anyone here, just putting it forward, discussion on the bigger picture.

I’m going to deduct some points for you quoting the Mandalorian out of context, and for taking a model trim name far too seriously!

Here on TZ-UK we are our size 6 Loakes, 38” waist trousers and XL Belstaff jacket, our Mazda MX-5s, and not forgetting of course our hand kneaded pizza dough and pizza ovens.

You ok hun? :-)

[cyrusir]

An EV would be perfect for me. I do mostly short journeys, and have a drive.

Where it falls apart is that I like to own cars outright and keep them for several years. EVs look OK as a lease/PCP proposition, but that's not really for me. I don't have confidence in the residuals. As an example, how much were e-trons new? You can get a 60k miles 70 reg for about £20k.

Apart from the probably unfounded fears about battery life, advances in battery tech loom on the horizon, and eventually there will be battery disposal costs.

So for me, - EVs are great if you do mostly short journeys, have a drive, and lease/PCP your vehicle. As an outright ownership prospect ( which is where the bottom of the market will be), not so much.

would a used etron not be perfect for you on that basis ? Heavy depreciation already incurred and you have the ideal mileage and own driveway requirements.

- - - Updated - - -

They really are not convenient without a driveway.

A ice car take a couple of mins to fill for 600 miles an ev takes an hour to charge to 50% or close to for 150 miles one pump is needed for ever 30 to 50 chargers unless the vast majority are charging at home. Of course those who aren't will be charged an arm and a leg.

Horses for courses I'm afraid no more no less


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an hour to charge to 50 percent ?? Check your sources

[Passenger]

I think you're partially correct that it is about money, however i would bet anybody here given similar circumstances would follow the money.
For our business we have 2 VW Id5s, they were around 55k each and are costing us a just over a grand a month for the pair . We are both dog families with the need to ferry elderly parents etc and so a small car simply wont do. Last lease was a pair of Land Rovers that were costing us about £800 for the pair. To get the equivalent models now would be well in excess of the VWs and of course they are not fully electric which as you know means you cant claim x amount for corp tax and bugger all BIK. Why would i as a business commit to higher payments, higher running and servicing costs and a greater personal tax burden?
I have a charger at home and have installed a 3 phase charger at work and so personally for us they are spot on for every reason that most people complain about. Mileage is small, costs are next to nothing compared to our previous models and then you have the benefit of the ease of driving these things now…they are a joy to drive. Im not a set in stone petrol head despite my profession….in fact tbh i have no real interest in cars at all and so for me they are just 4 wheels that get me from where i need to be and back again. I don't give 2 hoots what powers it and so thats why i don't get all the angst over EVs.

I don´t think anyones´ angsty about EV´s per se...just questioning, yet to be persuaded of their viability outside potentially quite a narrowish band of the population as it stands presently, which I think is allowed, healthy in a discussion. They evidently work for you FFF, that is great.

[Dave+63]

An EV would be perfect for me. I do mostly short journeys, and have a drive.

Where it falls apart is that I like to own cars outright and keep them for several years. EVs look OK as a lease/PCP proposition, but that's not really for me. I don't have confidence in the residuals. As an example, how much were e-trons new? You can get a 60k miles 70 reg for about £20k.

Apart from the probably unfounded fears about battery life, advances in battery tech loom on the horizon, and eventually there will be battery disposal costs.

So for me, - EVs are great if you do mostly short journeys, have a drive, and lease/PCP your vehicle. As an outright ownership prospect ( which is where the bottom of the market will be), not so much.

I’ve owned my van outright for the past nine years (two vans actually as one was written off and replaced like for like). The fuel savings in the first four years covered the cost of the van so the past five years have been pure saving. The residuals don’t matter because it has more than paid for itself.

I did buy my first one second hand at a year old but in the days when depreciation was still very low on EVs.

I’d have no qualms buying a £20k EV that’s a few years old and just keeping it until it finally fell apart and then repurposing the batteries as home storage.

[Passenger]

I’m going to deduct some points for you quoting the Mandalorian out of context, and for taking a model trim name far too seriously!

Here on TZ-UK we are our size 6 Loakes, 38” waist trousers and XL Belstaff jacket, our Mazda MX-5s, and not forgetting of course our hand kneaded pizza dough and pizza ovens.

You ok hun? :-)

The Mandalorian really...I´m guessing they cribbed from Chuck P´s Fight Club which was published considerably earlier, ... I´m good thanks, time for a quiche the missus just baked

Ah think I get your misunderstanding perhaps you refer to my use of ´´this is the way´´?, my use was as in the way of the world...yum great quiche, I´m out.

[RobDad]

One of the unexpected benefits of EV ownership has been the clueless and often hilarious questions I’ve been asked by friends, family and colleagues.
I’ve got used to driving the 15 miles to work and back, pulling the car onto the drive and plugging it in like a mobile phone to top up each night. It’s just ‘the car’ now - in fact not reaching down to change gear has been the hardest thing to get over!
So imagine my surprise when I’m told to be careful in case it catches fire - which apparently is less likely than a car with a built in container full of highly combustible fuel - or I’m informed that they’ll never catch on, or the battery will be dead and the whole car will be scrapped within 3 years. Or that once the cost of energy goes up I won’t be able to afford to run it, or even to be careful on the wet roads as water and electric don’t mix! - I just shrug and say it works for me and that’s it.
I don’t say I wouldn’t be seen dead in a Range Rover to the colleague who has been in and out of the garage with his 2 year old gangster wagon - it’s his choice and he loves it. Nor do I understand why other colleagues drive a Nissan Juke - surely the ugliest car ever - or various Hyundai and Nissan monstrosities that I just couldn’t look at without feeling I’d made the wrong choice, all melty headlights and garish plastics.
But I don’t because we all like different stuff. And I’m not that rude. What does seem odd is how they are all happy to tell me or imply I’m an idiot for driving an electric car - even though most don’t have a clue about any of the actual facts of owning, driving and fuelling one!?!Thankfully I have thick skin and find it all quite comical - I don’t particularly care what others think about the car I drive. I know it’s proving massively cheaper to run than my old diesel car, and I like driving it more than I expected. YMMV as they say - and now cheaper ones and older ones are entering the market, I suspect a lot of people will discover the same thing. Seems a funny thing to pour bile onto imho -
It’s just a car you have to plug in every now and then. Oh, and you can have the stereo on a bit lower as they’re very quiet. And there’s no clutch. And no gearstick. And no pully up handbrake. And it starts when you sit in it. And turns off when you get out. Those are the bits I struggle to get used to!

[Dave+63]

My EV van has a pull up handbrake but my wife’s diesel SUV doesn’t.

It’s really interesting looking back at your early posts on this thread, it’s a great example of being open minded enough to give it a try.

[Saint-Just]

Anyone who has a car or anything really, purchases "avatars projected out into the world in lieu of genuine achievement", including you and me. A bit of a strange discussion to have on a watch related forum, isn't it? Especially as it comes out not on watches (although you have already broached the subject, including on Rolex despite being prepared to buy one once), not on cars in general, but specifically on EVs.

By the way in 1956, Triumph (the brand, not the sort of things one seek to achieve), produced this beauty:



Yes, it was already called a Trophy.

[Passenger]

Anyone who has a car or anything really, purchases "avatars projected out into the world in lieu of genuine achievement", including you and me. A bit of a strange discussion to have on a watch related forum, isn't it? Especially as it comes out not on watches (although you have already broached the subject, including on Rolex despite being prepared to buy one once), not on cars in general, but specifically on EVs.

By the way in 1956, Triumph (the brand, not the sort of things one seek to achieve), produced this beauty:



Yes, it was already called a Trophy.

It's a weird and wonderful place what can I say.

And consistency may be the last refuge of the unimaginative.

Credit to Oscar Wilde, by way of Emerson.

[Franky Four Fingers]

Give it 10 years and itll all seem normal.

[UMBROSUS]

would a used etron not be perfect for you on that basis ? Heavy depreciation already incurred and you have the ideal mileage and own driveway requirements.

- - - Updated - - -



an hour to charge to 50 percent ?? Check your sources

Mate I was in the car unless my watch was off.

Say a 22kw charger and a 50kw battery how long to get to 50% there will be I am sure a few miles left in the tank and yes was only 100 to 150 miles on the clock.

I got out in like 40 miles so can only say what it said.

Just horses for courses.

Very few care what gets them from a to b it's the twats that operate the vehicle. Steriotypical or not justified or not.


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[Chris_in_the_UK]

Give it 10 years and itll all seem normal.

Whilst I agree things will be different, I doubt that EV's will be in the majority.

[Franky Four Fingers]

Whilst I agree things will be different, I doubt that EV's will be in the majority.

When the next technology steps up i suspect it will be met with similar scepticism.

[UMBROSUS]

Whilst I agree things will be different, I doubt that EV's will be in the majority.

I think elec cars will most likely be the winner.

Only because ice cars produce the polution where elec cars are beneficial to the environment.

Hydrogen cars will struggle with infrastructure to get fuel to the point of delivery. fortunately for elec cars millions of householders pay for this infrastructure in its case..

Travel by elec. car will eventually be taxed otherwise there will be a hole in the budget really only depends on when.

The folk who could take advantage great good on them but I doubt when a majority of cars are elec if 7p/Kw will be the norm. But while the savings are there you should take them with both hands


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[Tooks]

Mate I was in the car unless my watch was off.

Say a 22kw charger and a 50kw battery how long to get to 50% there will be I am sure a few miles left in the tank and yes was only 100 to 150 miles on the clock.

I got out in like 40 miles so can only say what it said.

Just horses for courses.

Very few care what gets them from a to b it's the twats that operate the vehicle. Steriotypical or not justified or not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In fairness, that’s like filling your car using a ladle!

Maybe it was the only charger available, but a 22kW charger on an e-tron will only deliver 11kW anyway, unless the owner specified the optional 22kW onboard charger on the 55 models.

No e-tron (50/55 or Q4) has a 50kWh battery either, even the Q4 version is rocking an 82kWh pack, that can pull 150kW on an appropriate rapid charger where 5-80% would take around 36 mins.

[Franky Four Fingers]

I think elec cars will most likely be the winner.

Only because ice cars produce the polution where elec cars are beneficial to the environment.

Hydrogen cars will struggle with infrastructure to get fuel to the point of delivery. fortunately for elec cars millions of householders pay for this infrastructure in its case..

Travel by elec. car will eventually be taxed otherwise there will be a hole in the budget really only depends on when.

The folk who could take advantage great good on them but I doubt when a majority of cars are elec if 7p/Kw will be the norm. But while the savings are there you should take them with both hands


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im guessing the tech that will win is the tech thats pushed the hardest by the likes of bhp, esso etc

[UMBROSUS]

In fairness, that’s like filling your car using a ladle!

Maybe it was the only charger available, but a 22kW charger on an e-tron will only deliver 11kW anyway, unless the owner specified the optional 22kW onboard charger on the 55 models.

No e-tron (50/55 or Q4) has a 50kWh battery either, even the Q4 version is rocking an 82kWh pack, that can pull 150kW on an appropriate rapid charger where 5-80% would take around 36 mins.

Really no idea it was the charger he went to for whatever reason cost or otherwise.

I doubt a 70k+ etron is average though....I hope to buy my next 4 cars for that sort of money. I can't do any accounting tricks to get it cheaper or afford to move.

I am sure perhaps Edinburgh , at Andrews may get some kerb side charging but doubt a small ex mining town outside Kirkcaldy will get the same.

But who knows maybe...


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[UMBROSUS]

im guessing the tech that will win is the tech thats pushed the hardest by the likes of bhp, esso etc

Yup could be but I don't see the point in reinventing the wheel the infrastructure is there. It might come down to mining rights for all I know I would not want one on my doorstep to be fair.

I do what's best for me and I would have liked that to be elec as I could have saved a fair bit but I cant. I'm not gonna organise my life round a car it just for a to b and has to be at my beck and call not the other way round. Charging at home is the deal breaker I'm afraid.

But love the fact it works for some

Edit: maybe he used that charger cause he just loves spending time with me. This was the main thing to him I am sure...lol


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[Franky Four Fingers]

Yup could be but I don't see the point in reinventing the wheel the infrastructure is there. It might come down to mining rights for all I know I would not want one on my doorstep to be fair.

I do what's best for me and I would have liked that to be elec as I could have saved a fair bit but I cant. I'm not gonna organise my life round a car it just for a to b and has to be at my beck and call not the other way round. Charging at home is the deal breaker I'm afraid.

But love the fact it works for some


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Arent we supposed to run out of oil somewhen in the 2050s? When i say run out i mean that’ll it'll be so difficult to extract it will become economically and environmentally unfriendly?

[Tooks]

Really no idea it was the charger he went to for whatever reason cost or otherwise.

I doubt a 70k+ etron is average though....I hope to buy my next 4 cars for that sort of money. I can't do any accounting tricks to get it cheaper or afford to move.

I am sure perhaps Edinburgh , at Andrews may get some kerb side charging but doubt a small ex mining town outside Kirkcaldy will get the same.

But who knows maybe...


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Yeah, the big 50/55 e-trons are pretty pricey, but the Q4 is the Audi equivalent of the VW ID.4 and Skoda Enyaq, so quite a bit cheaper especially used. I’d take the Enyaq of the three, even though I own the VW version.

Scotland did some great things charging wise early on, Charge Point Scotland was revolutionary in providing good rapid charging at no or low cost.

However, it did delay the big commercial charging operations from investing in Scotland, as who can compete with free.

I’ve been driving an EV through Scotland up to Lossiemouth for 5 or 6 years now a few times a year, the charging infrastructure has grown massively over that time, but west of the spine of Scotland still needs some work.

Very jealous of your country by the way, absolutely love it!

[Kingstepper]

I think elec cars will most likely be the winner.

Only because ice cars produce the polution where elec cars are beneficial to the environment.

Hydrogen cars will struggle with infrastructure to get fuel to the point of delivery. fortunately for elec cars millions of householders pay for this infrastructure in its case..

Travel by elec. car will eventually be taxed otherwise there will be a hole in the budget really only depends on when.

The folk who could take advantage great good on them but I doubt when a majority of cars are elec if 7p/Kw will be the norm. But while the savings are there you should take them with both hands


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How do elec cars benefit the environment then?

[UMBROSUS]

Yeah, the big 50/55 e-trons are pretty pricey, but the Q4 is the Audi equivalent of the VW ID.4 and Skoda Enyaq, so quite a bit cheaper especially used. I’d take the Enyaq of the three, even though I own the VW version.

Scotland did some great things charging wise early on, Charge Point Scotland was revolutionary in providing good rapid charging at no or low cost.

However, it did delay the big commercial charging operations from investing in Scotland, as who can compete with free.

I’ve been driving an EV through Scotland up to Lossiemouth for 5 or 6 years now a few times a year, the charging infrastructure has grown massively over that time, but west of the spine of Scotland still needs some work.

Very jealous of your country by the way, absolutely love it!

Yes it's great up there really beautiful.

We got married up there in kil rock castle near cawdor castle or dunrobin castle both are a bit better know. We have a fisherman friend in Buckie and have been out for crabs and lobsters on his boat. Can still taste or catch which his wife cooked to perfection. Yes it's great up there. Sigh...lol


West coast I think is more dramatic though.


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[UMBROSUS]

How do elec cars benefit the environment then?

They understand sarcasm and plant 5 trees for every mile driven....


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[Franky Four Fingers]

How do elec cars benefit the environment then?

Quieter i guess and the obvious drastic reduction in local emissions.

[Kingstepper]

Stop trolling, please.

Not trolling, just questioning experts with 'real-life' experience.

Quieter i guess and the obvious drastic reduction in local emissions.

Less harmful maybe, hardly beneficial.

[Tooks]

Not trolling, just questioning experts with 'real-life' experience.



Less harmful maybe, hardly beneficial.

Less harmful is the key bit, there is no such thing as ‘beneficial motoring’, it’s all a negative impact just a question of how much.

If we have to drive, and you can, then consider driving something less impactful.

Makes sense to consider something less impactful when your existing ride gives up the ghost.

[Kingstepper]

Less harmful is the key bit, there is no such thing as ‘beneficial motoring’, it’s all a negative impact just a question of how much.

If we have to drive, and you can, then consider driving something less impactful.

Makes sense to consider something less impactful when your existing ride gives up the ghost.

Yes, I know all this but not what the poster said.

[Tooks]

Yes, I know all this but not what the poster said.

Well, I think he’s said he was being sarcastic?!

But, a lower impact on the environment in whatever way is surely still a benefit?

[UMBROSUS]

Well, I think he’s said he was being sarcastic?!

But, a lower impact on the environment in whatever way is surely still a benefit?

Sorry I thought it was written to suggest I was just having a laugh.

However as far as noise pollution they are a menace. I imagine everyone has almost been run down by one in a car park the bloody things are like ninjas from the 90’s creeping up on you. Anyone remember ‘the master’ with Lee van cleef that was quality.


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[Dave+63]

Sorry I thought it was written to suggest I was just having a laugh.

However as far as noise pollution they are a menace. I imagine everyone has almost been run down by one in a car park the bloody things are like ninjas from the 90’s creeping up on you. Anyone remember ‘the master’ with Lee van cleef that was quality.


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Do you feel the same about cyclists and mobility scooters?

[Franky Four Fingers]

Sorry I thought it was written to suggest I was just having a laugh.

However as far as noise pollution they are a menace. I imagine everyone has almost been run down by one in a car park the bloody things are like ninjas from the 90’s creeping up on you. Anyone remember ‘the master’ with Lee van cleef that was quality.


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Being ran down by one in a car park is surely more the pedestrian than the cars fault?

[Dave+63]

I must confess, I’ve had a few opportunities to run over pedestrians in car parks but never really felt the need!

[RobDad]

Sorry I thought it was written to suggest I was just having a laugh.

However as far as noise pollution they are a menace. I imagine everyone has almost been run down by one in a car park the bloody things are like ninjas from the 90’s creeping up on you. Anyone remember ‘the master’ with Lee van cleef that was quality.


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I’ve noticed this with people stepping in front of me in car parks - I asked my wife to reverse the car on the drive as I was not sure the car was making the ‘whirring noise’ it’s supposed to at low speed so you can hear it coming. The sound was very noticeable - I just don’t think people associate it with an approaching car. You just have to be a bit more careful in car parks tbh. Personally I can’t stand the racket a single person on a motorbike makes - I’m surprised a lot of them are legal. Much prefer quiet to earsplitting loud!

[Dave+63]

I’ve noticed this with people stepping in front of me in car parks - I asked my wife to reverse the car on the drive as I was not sure the car was making the ‘whirring noise’ it’s supposed to at low speed so you can hear it coming. The sound was very noticeable - I just don’t think people associate it with an approaching car. You just have to be a bit more careful in car parks tbh. Personally I can’t stand the racket a single person on a motorbike makes - I’m surprised a lot of them are legal. Much prefer quiet to earsplitting loud!

Out of interest, is the Fiesta still your favourite?

[RobDad]

My EV van has a pull up handbrake but my wife’s diesel SUV doesn’t.

It’s really interesting looking back at your early posts on this thread, it’s a great example of being open minded enough to give it a try.

Life’s too short to be close-minded imho!! - don’t tell anyone, but sometimes I put away the mechanical watches and slip on a cheeky quartz! And as I type this I’m wearing a positively filthy, pervy Apple Watch Ultra!

[UMBROSUS]

Do you feel the same about cyclists and mobility scooters?

Cyclists on the pavement yes they are a menace

If on the road and I step out on them then I am the one at fault.

You could count on on finger the number of mobility scooters that I have been close to this year I recon so don’t think about them at all.


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[UMBROSUS]

I’ve noticed this with people stepping in front of me in car parks - I asked my wife to reverse the car on the drive as I was not sure the car was making the ‘whirring noise’ it’s supposed to at low speed so you can hear it coming. The sound was very noticeable - I just don’t think people associate it with an approaching car. You just have to be a bit more careful in car parks tbh. Personally I can’t stand the racket a single person on a motorbike makes - I’m surprised a lot of them are legal. Much prefer quiet to earsplitting loud!

Yes hard to argue I like the quiet as well. If only me neighbours liked either the quiet or decent music


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[RobDad]

Out of interest, is the Fiesta still your favourite?

Truth is I’ve been suffering from a bad back for a few months - so the Born has been much easier without the hard suspension and all the leg/foot movement changing gear in the Fiesta. The Ford performance bucket seats (their slightly wider in house version of Recaros) are bliss though!
So I’d say as a daily driver the Born is now the winner (and I can t ignore the mathematics of electricity vs shell V-power). It does drive well and the punch of silent power - especially 0-30 out of a junction for example - makes it feel very safe and composed - it’s all just so easy.
That said, I did drive the Fiesta to give it an airing last weekend, and the way it handled, the steering feel and the involvement of the clutch etc, made me grin from ear to ear. I’m not talking about driving it very fast - it went round bends like a limpet and I’m glad I still have the choice of the two - they’re both my favourite!

[Tooks]

Truth is I’ve been suffering from a bad back for a few months - so the Born has been much easier without the hard suspension and all the leg/foot movement changing gear in the Fiesta. The Ford performance bucket seats (their slightly wider in house version of Recaros) are bliss though!
So I’d say as a daily driver the Born is now the winner (and I can t ignore the mathematics of electricity vs shell V-power). It does drive well and the punch of silent power - especially 0-30 out of a junction for example - makes it feel very safe and composed - it’s all just so easy.
That said, I did drive the Fiesta to give it an airing last weekend, and the way it handled, the steering feel and the involvement of the clutch etc, made me grin from ear to ear. I’m not talking about driving it very fast - it went round bends like a limpet and I’m glad I still have the choice of the two - they’re both my favourite!

It’s like trying to choose your favourite child by the sounds of it! :-D