Electric cars-got to be a viable option now?

[Franky Four Fingers]

26 and just bought a house, sounds like a good lad you have there.

Cheers, yes he’s rather level headed, likely inherited from his mother.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pitch3110]

They’re quite tempting and with the supercharger network, the 75s are probably big enough.

Ideally I would like a 100D buddy but I don’t want to spend another tenner. The 75D will give either side of 200 depending on the time of year and that is absolutely fine for me, depending on my way back home from long trips I have Thetford, Kinds Lynn and Marks Tey to get me home.

That 24k one above is a fantastic buy given the spec.

@Chinese_Alan, I’m with you on your thoughts, there are not many 12yo cars that are hanging onto their looks like the Model S, that goes for the inside as well.

Pitch

[Pitch3110]

Cheers, yes he’s rather level headed, likely inherited from his mother.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you are like me, you use that phrase a lot buddy LOL.

Trust all is well.

Paul

[MB2]

Ideally I would like a 100D buddy but I don’t want to spend another tenner. The 75D will give either side of 200 depending on the time of year and that is absolutely fine for me, depending on my way back home from long trips I have Thetford, Kinds Lynn and Marks Tey to get me home.

That 24k one above is a fantastic buy given the spec.

@Chinese_Alan, I’m with you on your thoughts, there are not many 12yo cars that are hanging onto their looks like the Model S, that goes for the inside as well.

Pitch

75D is a good choice - I have run one for several years. If you get one with the MCU2 upgrade it should have the full SD computer too - check it can see traffic cones. CCS charging is a cheap upgrade if you don't have it. Mine still does a good bit over 200 and I think the cars look good still too.

Make sure it has been "uncorked" as gives much more performance (P85D equivalent)

The regular autopilot works well enough I have driven FSD and it doesn't do a lot but EAP or FSD would be nice to have although I wouldn't chose a car or pay more than a few hundred.

I do wish I had bought a P100D but given I only charge the 75D every few days it really doesn't matter apart from very occasional long trips when the SC network does me fine.

Any questions about spec etc please ask

[Mj2k]

That’s a whole lot of car for not much outlay. Amazed they have dropped so low, in my head I still see them as modern & the best looking of the Tesla line up. Just doesn’t seem to have dated.

[Dave+63]

The best looking of the Tesla line up.

You’ve set the bar quite low there, I don’t think anyone buying an X, Y or 3 buy them for their looks.

But I do agree, the S is a very handsome car.

[MB2]

That’s a whole lot of car for not much outlay. Amazed they have dropped so low, in my head I still see them as modern & the best looking of the Tesla line up. Just doesn’t seem to have dated.

Agreed - it is probably as the batteries are coming up on 8 years now but in truth the batteries all seem fine historically.

As they are 2018s they will be the faster spec - 4.2 seconds 0-60 instead of 5.2

[Tooks]

Looks like a nice example of a 75D Model S here for under £20k, used to be a press car in the early days, but under Tesla warranty until Sept 2024.

https://www.speakev.com/threads/tesl...d-2016.181143/

[wileeeeeey]

Looks like a nice example of a 75D Model S here for under £20k, used to be a press car in the early days, but under Tesla warranty until Sept 2024.

https://www.speakev.com/threads/tesl...d-2016.181143/

Glad to see it’s not just TZ where sales threads get trashed for no apparent reason.

I would have if it was free supercharging. I would love that on my driveway but the listing price and the Autotrader valuation are poles (£1k) apart. It doesn’t have an MOT.

Dear dear.

[stuie-t]

The values of used EVs have plummeted in the last 3-4 months and the Tesla S is not immune to that. Sellers have to be very realistic with their prices or they will be chasing the market down. Check out the price drops on this one!

[Mj2k]

Agreed - it is probably as the batteries are coming up on 8 years now but in truth the batteries all seem fine historically.

As they are 2018s they will be the faster spec - 4.2 seconds 0-60 instead of 5.2

I’d never realised they dropped the spec.

[Mj2k]

You’ve set the bar quite low there, I don’t think anyone buying an X, Y or 3 buy them for their looks.

But I do agree, the S is a very handsome car.

I think it’s something to do with the rear quarters for me, seems to remind me of when an M / S car had a subtle arch bulge vs the overly angry styling these days.

[Passenger]

The values of used EVs have plummeted in the last 3-4 months and the Tesla S is not immune to that. Sellers have to be very realistic with their prices or they will be chasing the market down. Check out the price drops on this one!

Blimey, looks like freefall.

[Tooks]

Glad to see it’s not just TZ where sales threads get trashed for no apparent reason.

I would have if it was free supercharging. I would love that on my driveway but the listing price and the Autotrader valuation are poles (£1k) apart. It doesn’t have an MOT.

Dear dear.

He says it’s getting done this week, but yes, I wonder what else he’s forgotten! :-$

Still seems a ridiculous amount of car for the money though, and it’s had the MCU2 upgrade, and has got the remaining warranty.

[RobDad]

I’m not sure availability of the Tesla network of chargers is that big a deal for many. 2 months into EV ownership and I haven’t charged it away from home once. I thought I’d have done it a few times by now but it just hasn’t been needed - I tend to top up most evenings at home. I suspect the majority of company car owners need their car to travel for their work so do larger mileages. As the cars get cheaper to buy for individuals who do 8-15k miles a year, the charging issue will reduce (for those with home charging who I guess will be the next adopters)

[Mj2k]

I’m not sure availability of the Tesla network of chargers is that big a deal for many. 2 months into EV ownership and I haven’t charged it away from home once. I thought I’d have done it a few times by now but it just hasn’t been needed - I tend to top up most evenings at home. I suspect the majority of company car owners need their car to travel for their work so do larger mileages. As the cars get cheaper to buy for individuals who do 8-15k miles a year, the charging issue will reduce (for those with home charging who I guess will be the next adopters)

When i used to drive from Reading to a Leeds for a 30 min meeting, ICE made sense. The world is more flexible now and hope it would not be an issue with joinery / teams time these days.

[Pitch3110]

That’s a whole lot of car for not much outlay. Amazed they have dropped so low, in my head I still see them as modern & the best looking of the Tesla line up. Just doesn’t seem to have dated.

It’s crazy where the prices have gone mate and there is a lot of data and feedback on these aging motors now to give some real comfort on the batteries and how the car is holding up.

But, Tesla is still a very young company compared to the majority of EV fare out there, ford, BMW, Nissan and the likes are proven brands………

Pitch

[wileeeeeey]

He says it’s getting done this week, but yes, I wonder what else he’s forgotten! :-$

Still seems a ridiculous amount of car for the money though, and it’s had the MCU2 upgrade, and has got the remaining warranty.

Seems like a really good deal for someone. If I did motorway miles I’d consider a swap.

[Passenger]

It’s crazy where the prices have gone mate and there is a lot of data and feedback on these aging motors now to give some real comfort on the batteries and how the car is holding up.

But, Tesla is still a very young company compared to the majority of EV fare out there, ford, BMW, Nissan and the likes are proven brands………

Pitch

I thought the data supported the case that Tesla's official range claims to be optimistically toppy at the start, plausibly by 10 to 20 percent... haven´t Tesla had to downgrade their stated range on a couple of models, to provide more ´realistic´ estimates... also the battery will inevitably degrade over time and after about 8 years or 100k miles this rate of decline is shown to accelerate?


Taking on board Elon´s decision to axe new car prices as he did, seems entirely normal, to me that used values are collapsing, after all nobody really needs a Tesla, as residuals vanish it becomes a sort of deflationary spiral, prospective buyers, being human- consumer behaviour, wanting value for money-not to get ripped off will pause, watch and wait for used prices to keep falling...why buy today, when next month or 2´, the price will have dropped by a further 2000, 3000 currency units...interested to see if-when the ten grand used Tesla is reached or breached.

Also the Chinese manufacturers appear to be eating Elno´s and other car makers lunch...I guess generous state subsidies and slave labour will do this...

[Dave+63]

I thought the data supported the case that Tesla's official range claims to be optimistically toppy at the start, plausibly by 10 to 20 percent... haven´t Tesla had to downgrade their stated range on a couple of models, to provide more ´realistic´ estimates... also the battery will inevitably degrade over time and after about 8 years or 100k miles this rate of decline is shown to accelerate?

I’m not sure where you are getting your information from but this report seems to indicate the opposite.


https://electrek.co/2023/04/25/tesla...y-degradation/

There’s also a pertinent comment about battery life and mileage and larger batteries doing a lot more miles per charge cycle and therefore a lot more miles in the 1000 cycle life span. The 1000 cycles also seems a bit arbitrary as my van has done many more than 1000 charge cycles with little noticeable impact so far and I’ve seen vans like mine with over 150,000 miles on the clock.

Assuming 70 miles per full charge cycle, that’s well over 2000 charge cycles.

Taking on board Elon´s decision to axe new car prices as he did, seems entirely normal, to me that used values are collapsing, after all nobody really needs a Tesla, as residuals vanish it becomes a sort of deflationary spiral, prospective buyers, being human- consumer behaviour, wanting value for money-not to get ripped off will pause, watch and wait for used prices to keep falling...why buy today, when next month or 2´, the price will have dropped by a further 2000, 3000 currency units...interested to see if-when the ten grand used Tesla is reached or breached.

Also the Chinese manufacturers appear to be eating Elno´s and other car makers lunch...I guess generous state subsidies and slave labour will do this...

There’s a 356,000 mile model S on eBay at £13k and quite a few below £14k, the £10k Tesla won’t be too far away now.

[Passenger]

I’m not sure where you are getting your information from but this report seems to indicate the opposite.


https://electrek.co/2023/04/25/tesla...y-degradation/





There’s a 356,000 mile model S on eBay at £13k and quite a few below £14k, the £10k Tesla won’t be too far away now.

That´s interesting, wondering now just how low they will go...still won´t buy one personally but fascinating to see how they´ve gone from the must have among tech head- early adopter types, willing to pay considerable money new and in such a short time the resale values plummeting, it´s an uphill battle to shift them.

Surely the opposite of what I´m saying is that Tesla estimates of range are bang on or higher than official numbers irrespective of temp- weather conditions, and their batteries actually gain capacity- range with more mileage- time, and nobody is arguing that...I don´t think.

Also what's gonna happen to the Tesla share price, hopefully, I imagine that´s in for a hammering too.

[Dave+63]

Surely the opposite of what I´m saying is that Tesla estimates of range are bang on despite weather conditions, and their batteries actually gain capacity- range over mileage- time, and nobody is arguing that...I don´t think.

WLTP range estimates are not done in house so not Teslas own estimates and battery life is not the same as estimated range. They really can’t be discussed as one and need to be kept separate.

No one is suggesting that range or capacity increases, that’s just stupid. Nor am I suggesting that estimated range is any more accurate than official mpg figures for an ICE.

[Passenger]

WLTP range estimates are not done in house so not Teslas own estimates and battery life is not the same as estimated range. They really can’t be discussed as one and need to be kept separate.

No one is suggesting that range or capacity increases, that’s just stupid. Nor am I suggesting that estimated range is any more accurate than official mpg figures for an ICE.

Ah but is it the same or less accurate then official mpg figs and are EV´s more or less twitchy than Ice, in terms of performance when it comes to extremes of weather and lest we forget we´re almost certainly in for more extremes of weather... I´ve read EV´s range- capacity in hot places really takes a hammering...and a life in the sun could shorten battery life,

https://www.chase.com/personal/auto/...y's%20life.

´´If you live in a part of the country where summers get hot — or you're planning a road trip to a warmer climate — you may not be able to count on the usual battery range of your electric vehicle (EV). On average, EVs lose 17% of their range when the temperature reaches 95 degrees Fahrenheit. That’s a smaller drop than you can expect in cold weather, but it’s still potentially disruptive. Plus, charging and storing your EV in extreme heat can shorten the battery’s life.´´

On range just taking that model S that´s being discussed but isn´t selling, wouldn´t it have come with a quoted range of 320 miles, the guy selling said in an English summer he´s only averaged 277 miles...and perhaps he drives cautiously...so realistically in July or August where I live the vehicle might, might just be capable of 200 to 220 miles on a good day with the AC cranked up...I´d have to stop after about 2 hours, waste time recharging, on a drive just up to Madrid for example.

[Tooks]

Ah but is it the same or less accurate then official mpg figs and are EV´s more or less twitchy than Ice, in terms of performance when it comes to extremes of weather and lest we forget we´re almost certainly in for more extremes of weather... I´ve read EV´s range- capacity in hot places really takes a hammering...and a life in the sun could shorten battery life,

https://www.chase.com/personal/auto/...y's%20life.

´´If you live in a part of the country where summers get hot — or you're planning a road trip to a warmer climate — you may not be able to count on the usual battery range of your electric vehicle (EV). On average, EVs lose 17% of their range when the temperature reaches 95 degrees Fahrenheit. That’s a smaller drop than you can expect in cold weather, but it’s still potentially disruptive. Plus, charging and storing your EV in extreme heat can shorten the battery’s life.´´

That’s why all modern EVs use actively cooled or heated battery packs, with battery management systems that limit charge rate unless charging conditions are met, to protect the battery.

Honestly, it’s almost like the engineers who design such systems have even thought about all this…

ICE vehicles are also impacted ref range and mpg with hot and cold weather and even altitude, it’s just that with the equivalent of at least 450kWh of energy on board, you don’t notice it as much. Remember, even a big battery EV only has about the equivalent of 2 gallons of petrol/diesel on board, many much less.

Articles like your Chase link are very poor, and whilst having some basis in truth like if you do hammer charge into a hot battery, no EV battery management system lets you do it, even if you want to.

[Tooks]

On range just taking that model S that´s being discussed but isn´t selling, wouldn´t it have come with a quoted range of 320 miles, the guy selling said in an English summer he´s only averaged 277 miles...and perhaps he drives cautiously...so realistically in July or August where I live the vehicle might, might just be capable of 200 to 220 miles on a good day with the AC cranked up...I´d have to stop after about 2 hours, waste time recharging, on a drive just up to Madrid for example.

Probably just means he’s driving to speed limits, a rare thing these days admittedly.

Where you live, with a thermally controlled battery like in that S, you’d have no issues at all, and Superchargers are a very pleasant experience and you wouldn’t need to stop for long at all.

But hey, you don’t have to buy one, that’s the good news. ;-)

[Passenger]

That’s why all modern EVs use actively cooled or heated battery packs, with battery management systems that limit charge rate unless charging conditions are met, to protect the battery.

Honestly, it’s almost like the engineers who design such systems have even thought about all this…

ICE vehicles are also impacted ref range and mpg with hot and cold weather and even altitude, it’s just that with the equivalent of at least 450kWh of energy on board, you don’t notice it as much. Remember, even a big battery EV only has about the equivalent of 2 gallons of petrol/diesel on board, many much less.

Articles like your Chase link are very poor, and whilst having some basis in truth like if you do hammer charge into a hot battery, no EV battery management system lets you do it, even if you want to.

And yet I can still pump petrol into the Skoda at considerable speed, whatever the temperature, and get on with my journey...amazingly convenient really.

So from what you´re describing T, if I stop en route from home to Madrid OR VICE VERSA, can find a public charger, it´s August so lets guess 45 c, the car- battery management system will likely only let it trickle lecky in to prevent further heating...so that pitstop might, could be a loooongish one? What a ball ache...imagine if you´ve a plane to catch or concert tickets...

[Dave+63]

And yet I can still pump petrol into the Skoda at considerable speed, whatever the temperature, and get on with my journey...amazingly convenient really.

Not on a Sunday when all the petrol stations are shut!

Or don’t they do that anymore in Spain?

You can make up as many scenarios as you like as to why ICE is more convenient than EV, most of them pretty dumb really, but as Tooks said, no one is forcing you to buy one.

If you fancy trying one, great, there are some great cars out there to choose from. If not, fine, there are still lots of great ICE out there too.

[Tooks]

And yet I can still pump petrol into the Skoda at considerable speed, whatever the temperature, and get on with my journey...amazingly convenient really.

So from what you´re describing T, if I stop en route from home to Madrid OR VICE VERSA, can find a public charger, it´s August so lets guess 45 c, the car- battery management system will likely only let it trickle lecky in to prevent further heating...so that pitstop might, could be a loooongish one? What a ball ache...imagine if you´ve a plane to catch or concert tickets...

No, I’m not saying that. I’m saying that a thermally managed battery pack won’t ever be too hot or too cold to charge optimally, because the thermal management keeps the battery in the ‘Goldilocks zone’. It worries about all that stuff so you don’t have to.

I’ve been driving EVs of some sort or another for 10 years now, most of your worries aren’t really worries in reality.

[Dave+63]

I’ve been driving EVs of some sort or another for 10 years now, most of your comments are just trolling in reality.

FTFY!

[blackal]

For some, an EV makes perfect sense.

For some, an EV does not make sense.

An EV for me - does not make sense, either financially or practically.

Seems like there will be people who won't accept my personal assessment.

(remember - it ain't just about the vehicle, but also the charging infrastructure.)

[Dave+63]

For some, an EV makes perfect sense.

For some, an EV does not make sense.

An EV for me - does not make sense, either financially or practically.

Seems like there will be people who won't accept my personal assessment.

(remember - it ain't just about the vehicle, but also the charging infrastructure.)

Strange, I’m seeing the opposite. I think EV drivers are quite happy with other peoples choice to drive ICE but a number of ICE drivers (a few participants on this thread) seem intent on proving that ICE is best and EVs are rubbish.

Going right back to the start of the thread, the question was Are EVs a viable option?

For many the answer is a definite yes, for others it’s a no and for others it a maybe.

[Pitch3110]

Strange, I’m seeing the opposite. I think EV drivers are quite happy with other peoples choice to drive ICE but a number of ICE drivers (a few participants on this thread) seem intent on proving that ICE is best and EVs are rubbish.

Going right back to the start of the thread, the question was Are EVs a viable option?

For many the answer is a definite yes, for others it’s a no and for others it a maybe.

Absolutely nailed it, I totally echo your view.

At the weekend I had a bunch of pals trying to talk me out of having another Telsa over a conversation. Not just their view, but telling me I was mad??????? And as I have mentioned above I have lived with an EV for over three years.

Back to the thread, 100% for me.

Pitch

[noTAGlove]

Seems cheap for a brand new leccy car.

Range is not great, but a perfect commuting car if you also have an ICE in the family for long journeys.

The lower spec Connecta is even cheaper.

https://www.nationwide-cars.co.uk/ca...r-auto-100106/

[Mj2k]

Quicker to type EV.

[Toshk]

Quicker to type EV.

[Mj2k]

Bet wind farms are windy turbine leccy producers for him.

[Passenger]

Seems cheap for a brand new leccy car.

Range is not great, but a perfect commuting car if you also have an ICE in the family for long journeys.

The lower spec Connecta is even cheaper.

https://www.nationwide-cars.co.uk/ca...r-auto-100106/

Seems kinda expensive to me, ugly, cheap looking thing too, buy it and you'll have spunked 21 K on a car that comes with a 120 mile short umbilical cord attached to your house...I mean if applying the idea you mention, one car only for commuting AND a second for the whole family and longer runs...that seems just to me a very costly/ complex soln...

[Longblackcoat]

Seems kinda expensive to me, ugly, cheap looking thing too...I mean if applying the idea you mention, one car only for commuting AND a second for the whole family and longer runs...that seems just to me a costly/ complex soln.

The Leaf isn't the height of luxury, certainly, but it's stunningly good at just beetling around town. I've had one for three years and 30k miles and have had no problems. And when I say 'no problems' I really do mean that - literally nothing has gone wrong and it's been much-loved in may family as an easy-to-drive and nippy little car. The range isn't great but if you have an ICE car for the long journeys you're covered.

As I'm right on the edge of the London ULEZ and I've used my ICE car an average of once in each of the last six months, I've taken the plunge and gone for a Nissan Ariya (87kWh battery, well over 300 miles range) as it's on my company's salary sacrifice list - it's a slow-selling model and Nissan are desperate to shift their slow-moving stock so it's absurdly cheap. It's also nice to drive - a lot of electric cars have terrible ride quality as they're heavy plus manufacturers insist on fitting stupidly big wheels. The Nissan isn't especially fast (not bothered) but it rides beautifully. Really nice interior as well. I drove a Model Y and hated it - fast but the interior feels horrible and I loathe the screens. And Elon Musk. Plus the ride is jiggly around town and the suburbs, which is where certainly 50% of my driving is done.

I reckon by the time I subtract the running costs (insurance on both cars, road tax on the ICE and depreciation on the EV) for my two current cars the new one won't cost me anything, and may even be slightly up on the deal.

[Passenger]

The Leaf isn't the height of luxury, certainly, but it's stunningly good at just beetling around town. I've had one for three years and 30k miles and have had no problems. And when I say 'no problems' I really do mean that - literally nothing has gone wrong and it's been much-loved in may family as an easy-to-drive and nippy little car. The range isn't great but if you have an ICE car for the long journeys you're covered.

As I'm right on the edge of the London ULEZ and I've used my ICE car an average of once in each of the last six months, I've taken the plunge and gone for a Nissan Ariya (87kWh battery, well over 300 miles range) as it's on my company's salary sacrifice list - it's a slow-selling model and Nissan are desperate to shift their slow-moving stock so it's absurdly cheap. It's also nice to drive - a lot of electric cars have terrible ride quality as they're heavy plus manufacturers insist on fitting stupidly big wheels. The Nissan isn't especially fast (not bothered) but it rides beautifully. Really nice interior as well. I drove a Model Y and hated it - fast but the interior feels horrible and I loathe the screens. And Elon Musk. Plus the ride is jiggly around town and the suburbs, which is where certainly 50% of my driving is done.

I reckon by the time I subtract the running costs (insurance on both cars, road tax on the ICE and depreciation on the EV) for my two current cars the new one won't cost me anything, and may even be slightly up on the deal.

Certainly the Ariya sounds the better option, it's ''tether'' is longer and you benefitted from the scheme, so good one. Speed seems almost non issue to me...unless you're going on a track...the ubiquitous camera's, pot holes, tailbacks/ roadworks, plausibly a combo of all of this...tend to sap a lot of the pleasure for me of driving on UK roads.

[Kingstepper]

Certainly the Ariya sounds the better option, it's ''tether'' is longer and you benefitted from the scheme, so good one. Speed seems almost non issue to me...unless you're going on a track...the ubiquitous camera's, pot holes, tailbacks/ roadworks, plausibly a combo of all of this...tend to sap a lot of the pleasure for me of driving on UK roads.

At 2x the cost it should be!

[Passenger]

At 2x the cost it should be!

Ah didn't check the rrp...I just assumed given LBC's words on it being a poor seller, Nissan in a bind then, he presumably got it for a bargain, bent Nissan over...again my assumption but I guessed closer to the Leaf price, certainly sub 30k...that's my bad.

[Longblackcoat]

Ah didn't check the rrp...I just assumed given LBC's words on it being a poor seller, Nissan in a bind then, he presumably got it for a bargain, bent Nissan over...again my assumption but I guessed closer to the Leaf price, certainly sub 30k...that's my bad.

That's the thing though - the list price is utterly meaningless.

Using exactly the same data (driver, miles per annum, length of lease) it's costing me £350/month versus a Model Y LR at £550/month. The Ariya is cheaper (on Octopus EV, don't know about other places) than even a Fiat 500e!

[Passenger]

That's the thing though - the list price is utterly meaningless.

Using exactly the same data (driver, miles per annum, length of lease) it's costing me £350/month versus a Model Y LR at £550/month. The Ariya is cheaper (on Octopus EV, don't know about other places) than even a Fiat 500e!

Interesting, thanks for sharing.

[744ER]

Lucid -18% Rivian -35% Tsla -3% how's that EV transition going guys! Second hand values plummeting, dealers lots chock full all over.... Anyone not shedding their EV in a hurry right now is gonna lose his shirt :)

[Franky Four Fingers]

Lucid -18% Rivian -35% Tsla -3% how's that EV transition going guys! Second hand values plummeting, dealers lots chock full all over.... Anyone not shedding their EV in a hurry right now is gonna lose his shirt :)

And…So what? All cars are dropping like bricks. Keep on reading your EV hater posts on FB


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pitch3110]

As said above why do petrolheads have such a fixation with EV ownership. It’s sorta narcissistic, believe and follow me, admire my posts and glorifying others loss with no empathy. Quite sad really, complete disregard.

Perhaps now is the time to dip ya toe in the EV cess pool???

Pitch

[stooo]

My advice is to buy and i3s - they’ll be a future classic.

[Tooks]

My advice is to buy and i3s - they’ll be a future classic.

I saw one the other day, I had a regular one back in 2014, but the S is ‘peak i3’ I think and an interesting vehicle regardless of its power source.

[RobDad]

My Cupra Born is in the garage at present - having a braking sensor refitted and calibrated after my wife ran over a pheasant the other week. The loan car is a Citroen C3, which has served to remind me how agricultural, slow, rattly and just plain old fashioned and nasty a cheaper ICE vehicle can be - especially those of a French flavour! There’s no way I’d ever buy one in 2024, having coincidentally seen the Dacia Spring is being launched in the uk for under £20k brand new. The Citroen has been a revelation, awful gearbox and totally gutless engine it requires my full concentration just to get the thing to pull out of a junction when the engine is cold, and the hill start I had to perform the other day was horrendous. And this from somebody whose second car is a manual petrol car so I’m hardly inexperienced. Those who vilify EV’s need to drive them back to back with a supposedly modern ICE vehicle - I think the cheaper end of the market, which now seems to be developing fast demonstrates the differences even more than the luxury sector.

[Passenger]

It's a Shitron wadda you expect.

Was the pheasant worth eating though?

IIRC there´s a gov. subsidy here that brings the Dacia Spring down to 12k euro.