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Thread: Electric cars-got to be a viable option now?

  1. #1701
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe narvey View Post
    Question for the EV owners.

    What is the protocol when some selfish twat leaves their fully charged car plugged into the only compatible charger?

    I tied to unplug it and it was locked- bloody annoying. Yes, I know I should not touch it but the display shows it finished charging 2 hrs earlier.

    Bloody annoying.
    Depends on the network. BP Pulse only do overstay charging on >50kW chargers and I think it might just be £10 if you're there 90 mins after a full charge

    Leave their wipers up so they're aware they inconvenienced someone

  2. #1702
    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    If everyone changed to EVs and charged at home, where would all the extra leccy come from and how would the distribution network cope with the additional load? Have the laws of physics changed recently?
    The electricity companies seem happy with the change and the pace we're moving at. They've called out no issues. The only drama seems to come from misinformed petrol heads looking for problems.

  3. #1703
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    I wouldn’t entertain an electric vehicle without a home off-street parking/charging facility, but it seems like the lure of cheap running costs and BIK is too tempting for some.

    I don’t plan to get an EV anytime soon, but lack of driveway space won’t be a problem, I’ve now got room to park 6 cars plus one in the garage. After 3 weeks of inconvenience plus an eye- watering bill the whole lot has now been resurfaced, it should out-last me!

    If everyone changed to EVs and charged at home, where would all the extra leccy come from and how would the distribution network cope with the additional load? Have the laws of physics changed recently?
    See myth 1;

    https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories...misconceptions

    I too would think twice about running an EV without home charging, but having driven EVs of all sorts for over 8 years now, the public charging infrastructure has improved so massively over that time, I’m hopeful it will be entirely fit for purpose by 2035 when any new ICE sales are banned.

    The things people worry about with EVs just don’t seem to be coming to fruition, and folks who do low annual miles could manage fine with a weekly visit to an ‘EV Station’, same as they do with an ICE, and probably whilst they’re doing something else anyway so no need for home charging.

    My mileage is rather high annually, so my needs are different, no home or workplace charging would be a ball ache!

  4. #1704
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by joe narvey View Post
    Question for the EV owners.

    What is the protocol when some selfish twat leaves their fully charged car plugged into the only compatible charger?

    I tied to unplug it and it was locked- bloody annoying. Yes, I know I should not touch it but the display shows it finished charging 2 hrs earlier.

    Bloody annoying.
    You need to follow them home, locate their letterbox and do the time honoured thing…

    What charger was it? A rapid or slower ‘destination’ chargers?

    A lot of rapid networks are introducing overstay fees now, so fingers crossed they learnt their lesson.
    Last edited by Tooks; 25th November 2022 at 21:27.

  5. #1705
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    Quote Originally Posted by guinea View Post
    The only drama seems to come from misinformed petrol heads looking for problems.
    No, just posing a fair question. I suspect there will be supply problems in some areas if everyone converts.

  6. #1706
    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    but it seems like the lure of cheap running costs and BIK is too tempting for some.
    Not just BIK, it is all about salary sacrifice.

    If you are lucky enough to earn £100k you have a marginal tax rate of 62.5%. Lease a £90k Porsche Taycan normally for £1k pcm, and with salary sacrifice you are down to £400 pcm.

    Everyone earning 6 figures is looking at a Taycan as it is cheaper than running a Golf.

    If you were in that position you would do exactly the same.

  7. #1707

    Electric cars-got to be a viable option now?

    Quote Originally Posted by noTAGlove View Post
    Not just BIK, it is all about salary sacrifice.

    If you are lucky enough to earn £100k you have a marginal tax rate of 62.5%. Lease a £90k Porsche Taycan normally for £1k pcm, and with salary sacrifice you are down to £400 pcm.

    Everyone earning 6 figures is looking at a Taycan as it is cheaper than running a Golf.

    If you were in that position you would do exactly the same.
    Wth, a Porsche Taycan for £400 a month! What’s the mileage allowance on that, I’m paying sodding £280 a month for a Qasqhai on a 2 year lease deal atm haha…

    Any link to this deal?

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Martylaa; 25th November 2022 at 21:55.

  8. #1708
    Quote Originally Posted by Martylaa View Post
    Wth, a Porsche Taycan for £400 a month! What’s the mileage allowance on that, I’m paying sodding £280 a month for a Qasqhai on a 2 year lease deal atm haha…

    Any link to this deal?

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Just ran the numbers on my employers car provider website. The monthly salary sacrifice on the cheapest Porsche Taycan is £1265 pcm for a 3 year lease and 10k miles pa. This is the real cost of leasing the Taycan if you pay privately.

    If you earn £100-125k the tax saved on salary sacrifice is £759 and NI saved is £41. Monthly BIK is £57.

    The 60% income tax saving is because you lose your personal allowance between £100k and £125k, so marginal rate steps up from 40% to 60%

    So net amount deducted from your salary to run the Porsche Taycan is £519 pcm ((1265x0.4)+57-41).

    Ok, not £400pcm, but not that much more. And that is for everything included except fuel, or should I say leccy.

    A good few Taycans around the work car park, and I can see why.

    Not much more cost when compared to privately running an modest Audi.
    Last edited by noTAGlove; 25th November 2022 at 22:21.

  9. #1709
    Quote Originally Posted by noTAGlove View Post
    Just ran the numbers on my employers car provider website. The monthly salary sacrifice on the cheapest Porsche Taycan is £1265 pcm for a 3 year lease and 10k miles pa. This is the real cost of leasing the Taycan if you pay privately.

    If you earn £100-125k the tax saved on salary sacrifice is £759 and NI saved is £41. Monthly BIK is £57.

    So net amount per is £519 pcm ((1265x0.4)+57-41).

    Ok, not £400pcm, but not that much more. And that is for everything included except fuel, or should I say leccy.

    A good few Taycans around the work car park, and I can see why.

    Not much more cost when compared to privately running an modest Audi.
    Bloody hell that is unreal, £519 a month (I’m a tight bugger when it comes to cars over the last couple of years) is too much for me but if it had been close to the the £400 and I had seen that before getting a 2 year lease deal I would have been tempted to try a EV out and see what the fuss is all about, wouldn’t be very practical but hey it’s a Porsche haha.

    I’ll keep an eye on this salary sacrifice scheme when my lease is up, we’ll that’s if I’m still in the same job lol.


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  10. #1710
    Quote Originally Posted by Martylaa View Post
    I’ll keep an eye on this salary sacrifice scheme when my lease is up, well that’s if I’m still in the same job lol.
    It all depends on your marginal income tax rate. The higher your marginal tax rate is, the better the salary sacrifice EV deal.

    If you earn £100-125k and have maxed out your pension, fill her boots with a porker.

  11. #1711
    I'm intrigued now, does anyone have a link to a website regarding salary sacrifice plans, something where I can inout my data (wage, etc) and see how much I can get a EV car for?

  12. #1712
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martylaa View Post
    I'm intrigued now, does anyone have a link to a website regarding salary sacrifice plans, something where I can inout my data (wage, etc) and see how much I can get a EV car for?
    Depends on the scheme my wife's work scheme isn't the best although I suspect in a years time we will get another car on it as it's easy and gives peace of mind, however she has looked at a different role with a different organisation and their scheme is a lot better value.


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  13. #1713
    Quote Originally Posted by Martylaa View Post
    I'm intrigued now, does anyone have a link to a website regarding salary sacrifice plans, something where I can inout my data (wage, etc) and see how much I can get a EV car for?
    You need to speak to HR in your company and ask if there is something set up, or if not ask them to consider setting it up. I believe the company makes savings too and it makes for happier employees.

    To give you another data point, I ordered a Volvo C40 with a couple of options last Thursday. List price is £48k.

    If you want to lease direct from Volvo without salary sacrifice it costs £670pcm. My company’s lease provider had a deal which brought it down to £600pcm. But that is a gross deduction from my salary.

    When I salary sacrifice, with income tax and NI savings, and adding back in the BIK, the net cost of the car to me and the amount deducted from my salary is £338 pcm.

    So, £338 pcm to run a brand new £48k leccy car, including all maintenance, insurance and breakdown cover.

    Just got to put fuel, or should I say leccy in it. And that is heavily subsidised at work at 2p/kWh to encourage the transition, making a fill up £1.40.

    Better than the £120 I’m currently spending to fill up my V70 diesel.
    Last edited by noTAGlove; 26th November 2022 at 11:26.

  14. #1714
    Quote Originally Posted by noTAGlove View Post
    You need to speak to HR in your company and ask if there is something set up, or if not ask them to consider setting it up. I believe the company makes savings too and it makes for happier employees.

    To give you another data point, I ordered a Volvo C40 with a couple of options last Thursday. List price is £48k.

    If you want to lease direct from Volvo without salary sacrifice it costs £670pcm. My company’s lease provider had a deal which brought it down to £600pcm. But that is a gross deduction from my salary.

    When I salary sacrifice, with income tax and NI savings, and adding back in the BIK, the net cost of the car to me and the amount deducted from my salary is £338 pcm.

    So, £338 pcm to run a brand new £48k leccy car, including all maintenance, insurance and breakdown cover.

    Just got to put fuel, or should I say leccy in it. And that is heavily subsidised at work at 2p/kWh to encourage the transition, making a fill up £1.40.

    Better than the £120 I’m currently spending to fill up my V70 diesel.
    Thanks, I'm going to speak to my HR manager when I get back to work, I'm also going to mention it to our Environmental Specialist as a good way to offset carbon emissions by giving employee's the option to go EV via salary sacrifice, knowing our Enviro manager as I do, then I think she will think it's a good idea haha...

  15. #1715
    Finally got the charge point finished off this week, commissioned and tested. 3 phase Autel which can charge either 11 or 22kw. Had the guys Mach E hooked up and it would have took it from 80% to 100% in little under hour and a half. Hardly rapid but a lot faster than the standard charger…..just need the ******** cars now!!


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  16. #1716
    Grand Master Mr Curta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Finally got the charge point finished off this week, commissioned and tested. 3 phase Autel which can charge either 11 or 22kw. Had the guys Mach E hooked up and it would have took it from 80% to 100% in little under hour and a half. Hardly rapid but a lot faster than the standard charger…..just need the ******** cars now!!
    Sounds about right. I don't know about the Ford but some EVs slow down the charge above about 80% to extend battery life, even on AC. Unless I have a long journey I tend to run it down to around 20% and then charge to 80%.
    Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH

  17. #1717
    Quote Originally Posted by noTAGlove View Post
    You need to speak to HR in your company and ask if there is something set up, or if not ask them to consider setting it up. I believe the company makes savings too and it makes for happier employees.

    To give you another data point, I ordered a Volvo C40 with a couple of options last Thursday. List price is £48k.

    If you want to lease direct from Volvo without salary sacrifice it costs £670pcm. My company’s lease provider had a deal which brought it down to £600pcm. But that is a gross deduction from my salary.

    When I salary sacrifice, with income tax and NI savings, and adding back in the BIK, the net cost of the car to me and the amount deducted from my salary is £338 pcm.

    So, £338 pcm to run a brand new £48k leccy car, including all maintenance, insurance and breakdown cover.

    Just got to put fuel, or should I say leccy in it. And that is heavily subsidised at work at 2p/kWh to encourage the transition, making a fill up £1.40.

    Better than the £120 I’m currently spending to fill up my V70 diesel.

    Maybe my scheme is just rubbish! I can't make the numbers add up.

    We've got a well establish salary sacrifice scheme and I'm a 40% tax payer.

    I'm looking at an MG ZS Trophy Long Range:

    P11D value £34,440.00
    Income tax rate 40%
    Tax saving (£240.15)
    NI saving (£12.01)
    Benefit in kind £22.96
    Est. net cost to you £371.17

    So over 4 years, I'm paying just shy of 18k for a 34k car. Then I have to give it back. Surely it's better to buy it at 34k and after 4 years it'll still be worth, what 70%? I've never leased, but so many do - what am I missing?

  18. #1718
    For direct comparison, this is the quote for the base C40:

    P11D value £47,045.00
    Income tax rate 40%
    Tax saving (£304.14)
    NI saving (£15.21)
    Benefit in kind £31.36
    Est. net cost to you £472.35

  19. #1719
    Quote Originally Posted by Martylaa View Post
    Thanks, I'm going to speak to my HR manager when I get back to work, I'm also going to mention it to our Environmental Specialist as a good way to offset carbon emissions by giving employee's the option to go EV via salary sacrifice, knowing our Enviro manager as I do, then I think she will think it's a good idea haha...
    Here's some more number to help you understand the impact of your tax rate and general costs. This is straight off the website.

    I've chosen a VW ID4 as it is probably one of the most popular family cars on the scheme. Model is a Volkswagen ID.4 109kW 52kWh Life Edition Pure 110kWCh Auto with list price of £38,655. Based on a 36-month lease, 10k miles pa.

    20% tax

    Monthly gross salary sacrifice £580
    National Insurance saved on salary -£77
    Tax saved on salary -£112
    Monthly BiK +£12
    Net cost to you £403 pcm

    40% tax

    Monthly gross salary sacrifice £580
    National Insurance saved on salary -£19
    Tax saved on salary -£232
    Monthly BiK +£26
    Net cost to you £355 pcm

    45% tax

    Monthly gross salary sacrifice £580
    National Insurance saved on salary -£19
    Tax saved on salary -£261
    Monthly BiK +£29
    Net cost to you £329 pcm

    60% tax (if you earn £100-125k)

    Monthly gross salary sacrifice £580
    National Insurance saved on salary -£19
    Tax saved on salary -£348
    Monthly BiK +£29
    Net cost to you £242 pcm

    You can see the higher your marginal tax rate, the better the deal.

  20. #1720
    Master reggie747's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickChard View Post

    Surely it's better to buy it at 34k and after 4 years it'll still be worth, what 70%?
    70% after 4 years ? What have you been smoking ?

  21. #1721
    Quote Originally Posted by reggie747 View Post
    70% after 4 years ? What have you been smoking ?

    Even at half it makes more sense though?

  22. #1722
    Quote Originally Posted by RickChard View Post
    Maybe my scheme is just rubbish! I can't make the numbers add up.

    We've got a well establish salary sacrifice scheme and I'm a 40% tax payer.

    I'm looking at an MG ZS Trophy Long Range:

    P11D value £34,440.00
    Income tax rate 40%
    Tax saving (£240.15)
    NI saving (£12.01)
    Benefit in kind £22.96
    Est. net cost to you £371.17

    So over 4 years, I'm paying just shy of 18k for a 34k car. Then I have to give it back. Surely it's better to buy it at 34k and after 4 years it'll still be worth, what 70%? I've never leased, but so many do - what am I missing?
    Your numbers don't say what the gross lease rate is.

    Here's my numbers for the same car. Here is what I see for 40% tax rate. 36 months and 10k pa

    Monthly gross salary sacrifice £533
    National Insurance saved on salary -£17
    Tax saved on salary -£213
    Monthly BiK £21
    Net cost to you £324

    The MG4 likely has poor residual hence despite being £18k cheaper than the Volvo C40 is a similar lease cost. If you divide P11D by lease cost, then the higher number you get, theoretically the better deal it is
    Last edited by noTAGlove; 26th November 2022 at 12:13.

  23. #1723
    And factually, list price of my MG ZS EV was £26,250 in early 2019. I've just sold it for £21,000 with it almost being 4 years old.

    So it's lost 20% in 4 years.

  24. #1724
    Quote Originally Posted by noTAGlove View Post
    Your numbers don't say what the gross lease rate is.

    Here's my numbers for the same car. Here is what I see for 40% tax rate. 36 months and 10k pa

    Monthly gross salary sacrifice £533
    National Insurance saved on salary -£17
    Tax saved on salary -£213
    Monthly BiK £21
    Net cost to you £324

    The MG4 likely has poor residual hence despite being £18k cheaper than the Volvo C40 is a similar lease cost. If you divide P11D by lease cost, then the higher number you get, theoretically the better deal it is
    It doesn't say gross lease rate anywhere. It looks like my company is simply more expensive...

    Base price £600.37
    Options £0.00
    Gross sacrifice £600.37
    P11D value £34,440.00
    Income tax rate 40%
    Tax saving (£240.15)
    NI saving (£12.01)
    Benefit in kind £22.96
    Est. net cost to you £371.17
    Total saving £229.20
    Excess mileage rate 7.76 ppm

  25. #1725
    Quote Originally Posted by RickChard View Post
    For direct comparison, this is the quote for the base C40:

    P11D value £47,045.00
    Income tax rate 40%
    Tax saving (£304.14)
    NI saving (£15.21)
    Benefit in kind £31.36
    Est. net cost to you £472.35
    To get that quote your monthly salary sacrifice is £760, whereas mine is £596.

    It appears the deal I get via the leasing company is a lot better than yours. I thought all providers would be similar, but apparently not

  26. #1726
    Quote Originally Posted by RickChard View Post
    It doesn't say gross lease rate anywhere. It looks like my company is simply more expensive...

    Base price £600.37
    Options £0.00
    Gross sacrifice £600.37
    P11D value £34,440.00
    Income tax rate 40%
    Tax saving (£240.15)
    NI saving (£12.01)
    Benefit in kind £22.96
    Est. net cost to you £371.17
    Total saving £229.20
    Excess mileage rate 7.76 ppm
    Yes, your gross sacrifice is £600, whereas my gross sacrifice is only £533 for the same car.

  27. #1727
    Quote Originally Posted by noTAGlove View Post
    To get that quote your monthly salary sacrifice is £760, whereas mine is £596.

    It appears the deal I get via the leasing company is a lot better than yours. I thought all providers would be similar, but apparently not


    Yes, I've just checked, it's £760.34 for the C40.

    :(

  28. #1728
    Journeyman
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    Our Tusker scheme is rubbish… base taycan with no extras is coming out gross £1489 a month on 36m/10kpa…


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  29. #1729
    Journeyman
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    Ermm slight correction to my earlier post. It seems despite having to put salary data into the site it doesn’t take account of your correct income tax rate! So if you manipulate the data elements the cost impact to your monthly salary is lower… now more cost effective!


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  30. #1730
    I imagine that with 45-60% tax savings on lease rates for the highest rate marginal tax payers, Porsche will be creaming it in the U.K. market with their Taycan. No wonder there is a 68 weeks wait list according to the lease website.

    A U.K. market that only produces one leccy car; the Mini with barely any meaningful range.

    Oh, the joys of leaving the EU where our salary sacrifice schemes ensure Porsche, VW, Volvo, Polestar etc. can rack up those profits at the expense of U.K. tax receipts.

    Not knocking it, as I have bought one. Just better if U.K. industry could benefit rather than Germany or China.

  31. #1731
    Master
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    Who is your work lease provider NTL?
    Your rates are very competitive.

    We have Tusker but it certainly hasn’t proved competitive.
    Edit: taken to PM
    Last edited by Boss13; Yesterday at 08:21.

  32. #1732
    Craftsman
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    We also have Tusker and the rates are horrendous


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  33. #1733
    Master
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    Also with tusker and a base Taycan is £1535 gross for 36 months and 10k pa. 23.5ppm plus vat if you go over.
    A base C40 is £737 gross on the same basis and 9ppm plus vat if you go over.

    I've noticed that the prices are rising steeply for tusker when my wife got her first it worked out very well financially her current car was okay but not sure what to do when it comes to renewal. At least it's an inclusive price so when the car needed £800 of tyres the other week I said of course you can fit Michelin.

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