Reply With QuoteThanks, but I don’t need luck. I have done my homework.Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK
Good luck with that one.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Thanks, but I don’t need luck. I have done my homework.
It is important to consider public safety and existing legislation when placing the cable from the power supply in your home to your vehicle. Any legal liability arising from the placement of the cable or protector is your responsibility. You may wish to speak to your home insurer to confirm that your home insurance policy covers this situation.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
'Any legal liability' is true IF there is liability. It is back to the person installing the crossing 'may' be liable. I have completed all reasonable safeguards to ensure the safety of a passer by.
In the very unlikely event something was to happen, I believe my risk to be very low. First and foremost I have installed a system to absolutely minimise a trip event. Secondly, there is little footfall in my road, especially during the overnight hours.
I may be wrong, but I presume you may have just started your research in light of this. Any person doing this needs to do their homework properly.
Anyone can find a good news or not so good news article for the same topic. That is the vastness of the intersphere.
As I said, I have done my homework and I’m comfortable with the risk, but equally I have taken all reasonable efforts to ensure the safety of any member of the public passing by.
But, thanks for the contribution. Very rarely is anything 100% clear cut. We live our lives balancing risk. If we didn't accept minimal risk, we wouldn't cross a road.
Last edited by noTAGlove; 27th August 2023 at 21:06.
I don’t have an EV, even though I do have a driveway so never really thought about it before, but I genuinely thought the option of running a cable across a public path was a legal and practical no go? I used to live in London in an area of terraced houses with no off-road parking, and if I had to negotiate these mini road humps with a buggy or pram I wouldn’t be very happy - and what about wheelchair users? - and I’m neither grumpy, a wheelchair user, a parent of a baby or litigious. Bearing in mind the council would complain if a bush was obstructing a path by a few inches I’d be amazed if you can get away with it tbh?!
I definitely wouldn't be happy pushing a wheelchair over that.
I installed it early tonight as a trial. It is not on a busy London Street, but a very quiet Surrey cul-de-sac.
Going forward it will be installed just before I go to bed (11pm to midnight ) and cleared as soon as I wake up (7am to 7.30 am).
I have lived on my road for 15 years. I reckon 10 people walk up and down it each day and almost nobody between 11pm and 7am.
Never seen a wheelchair in the day, never mind at 3 am in the morning.
Plenty of tutt-tutting I am sure from the general disapproving types.
And here it is at night lit by the street lamp next to it
Last edited by noTAGlove; 27th August 2023 at 22:00.
I'm not being a general disapproving type. I sometimes have to push a wheelchair with an adult in it and that would definitely be an annoying and pretty risky obstacle.
Obviously you know your location well, and I don't know it at all so I'll assume your observations of pedestrian activity, or rather lack of, is accurate.
I posted Hampshire CC guidance in #2950 as an example. The cable protector looks very much like mine. I cannot find guidance from Surrey CC, but some councils are setting precedents, that it is OK to charge across pavements as long as guidance is followed and if you accept the risk.
After all, the Councils are encouraging residents to switch to EVs, and have to be pragmatic in their guidance.
I am sure it is very different if you are parked on a major thoroughfare in Stoke Newington.
It is not about 'getting away with it'.
Getting away with it was just a turn of phrase. Without this kind of solution I don’t see how EV’s will be a viable solution for many people, so it will be interesting to see how you get on. I’m merely pointing out the potential pitfalls and issues as I see them (without any legal background or research). It seems both sensible and logical but that doesn’t always mean the local authority will see it that way!
Guy further down the road chucks a bath mat over his cable!
I think I have taken a much more considered and professional approach.
My Council is doing pretty much sweet FA with respect to local charging infrastructure.
Interesting to see how this is compatible given the elimination of ICE by 2030.
The local EV charging infrastructure is a complete mess.
I see things like this written all the time, and it’s simply not true. Petrol and diesel cars will be with us for decades to come.
Even if the government stick to its timeline, people can still go out and buy a diesel or petrol car one day before the ban comes in and run it for the next 20 years.
I saw the Hampshire guidance above and thought being in the neighbouring county it might be similar, alas its not, if it had been I'd be spending this week test driving electric cars.
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My motto on this topic is, it easier to ask for forgiveness rather than get permission
Do the appropriate thing even if you don’t have the backing.
It’s not about being reckless but about knowing when to push the envelope. It’s about not waiting for anyone’s approval to do the things you need to do in order to succeed.
If someone goes flying over that and breaks something (or worse) I’d never forgive myself. Yes the likelihood is very low, but I wouldn’t be able to tolerate that risk personally.
You’re “pushing the envelope” to save a few pennies on a cheap electricity deal and to make your life marginally easier, nothing more. Please don’t pretend it’s anything other than this
I am not pretending anything.
Of course it is 100% about saving money on charging. Why else would I do it?
I don’t want to spend up to twice the price to refuel when compared with an ICE car.
When it can cost you up to 75p/kWh on the road to charge, everything I have done so I can charge at a reasonable 9p/kWh rate.
And when you say a few pennies, it nearly up to an order of magnitude cost difference. Not something to be sniffed at.
So if someone does injure themselves tripping over your cheap charging set up, how will you feel. Worth the saving still?
Anyway, I am sure more disapproving police will be along soon, but the results of my test last night were not fully successful.
I don’t trust E.ON Next as far as I can throw them, so monitored my electricity usage overnight while the car was charging.
I set the car charging time to start at 0005hrs and finish at 0655hrs, to be within the 12am-7am low tariff schedule.
When I got up this morning I had used 18kW of electricity, which is about right (2.3 kW/h for a standard 13 amp plug for 7 hours).
But when I looked at the distribution on the meter 12kW was at the cheap T2 night rate and 6kW was at the expensive T1 daytime rate. That is not correct as it should have all been at the lower T2 night rate.
I know from previous experience that the Economy 7 tariff in the South East is a bit weird and reverts to a peak period between 0030hrs and 0230 hrs, sandwiched between two off peak periods, and this would make sense for my meter reading.
So, it appears E.ON Next have changed my tariff, but not change the hours on the meter, and the hours are as per Economy 7 rather than reset to the hours for the Drive tariff.
Thought this may be useful information for other who swap tariffs. Unless you run a test you may not click for months that your energy supplier has cocked up and is overcharging you.
It does not surprise me that E.ON Next are as sh1t as ever.
Economy 7 hours below
Last edited by noTAGlove; 28th August 2023 at 09:34.
I take risks in everything I do, from deciding to cross the road to driving a car.
Just driving a car puts other pedestrians and other motorists at risk. Probably much more risk that the professional cable protector arrangement I have set up.
Everyone has a different view on risk. Let’s leave it at that.
Whilst I admire you for trying to do the ‘right thing’ here, if my EV was only covering 16 miles a day, or around 33kWh a week, I’d be tempted to just charge it on even a 50kW rapid once a week for 30 mins whilst I was at the supermarket or something?
What were you doing about charging before setting up that charging arrangement? Have the council said ‘no’ to a channel with a cover on top so the pavement is still flat? Is there zero chance of workplace charging whilst your wife is using the car? Personally, I’d be preferring those options and having the cable cover as a last resort backup for occasional use, but appreciate I’m not you and don’t know your circumstances.
Using a 13A 3 pin long term isn’t an ideal solution either really, and your charge flap looks vulnerable to being knocked at the kerbside.
Is the car a Volvo C40 Recharge, what size battery?
If you proceed on the basis proposed (and I understand your position on it) then I think you need to install some nighttime lighting PDQ. That may just about demonstrate that you've taken all reasonable precautions to mitigate the risk to pedestrians, albeit that you'll never know unless and until there's some case law available.
Yeah let’s. Good luck with it and enjoy those savings!
I am ahead of you and have done. I have run LED lights through the second cable channel so the yellow cover of the cable protector glows.
It can’t be seen in the photo because of the bright street light next to it, but it illuminates the cable protector along its length nicely when the street lamp goes off at 2am.
Tough crowd, but I hope I have allayed the concerns. But, I am sure not for everyone!
Last edited by noTAGlove; 28th August 2023 at 09:46.
That is just the work week day.
At weekends it can be on a run to the south coast, a trip my parents up north, or out west to my wife’s parents. It does a lot more miles that the 16 miles per day, but no more than 16 miles per day on weekdays. But the charging at home easily covers that. It is a 69kWh battery.
Next week I am doing a 400 mile Uni run, so will charge it 100% on the way out and return with 10-20% to minimise expensive motorway service charging.
He’s doing no more than following recommendations from his local council. What the council have done is come up with a temporary solution to a growing problem. It’s classed as temporary because the set-up should be removed when the car isn’t on charge, therefore it isn’t a permanent installation. It’s a growing market and I believe far superior permanent solutions are now coming to the market, but obviously that’s an extra expense.
In quiet locations you can see the system working, but there are certainly limitations as to where the system will work.
There hasn’t been a serious accident, as yet, so amazingly until there is no one is completely sure who will be held responsible and until there’s a court case, no one can be.
The charging system I believe is classed as part of car, so having decent insurance has got to be a must.
Below is one of the pics shown by the council, they have run the cable to the centre of the path with a loop of cable nicely weighted down by the cable covers, there’s a step to walk up with the loop to the centre of the step!! Run the cable to the side of the walkway perhaps?
where's the closest bp gas station
My friend paid several thousand to get a charger installed on the street outside his house kerbside. Not sure if it's for him only or anyone can park there and charge. Not sure if the supply comes from his house or elsewhere
But he did do that. And then moved house about 18m later
I'll ask him when I see him
Looks to me like you've gone to all reasonable efforts, looks professionally done...certainly more than chucking a bath mat over the cable...given not everyone has a drive, some variation of your solution will have to be more generally rolled out I would think...Is this a reasonable world still, the only question.
We used to live in a niceish part of Clapham, quiet at the back..the state of the pavements in places was shocking, the tree's on some streets, their roots had made a total joke of pavements being fit for pushing a child's buggy, even walking if you were elderly or otherwise wobbly was an accident waiting to happen...but never heard of anyone suing over it though, just saying fwiw.
Last edited by Passenger; 28th August 2023 at 10:21.
I like the solution in the photo below.
But my Council’s current EV strategy, as published on their website, has not been updated since November 2018, so I won’t hold my breath.
I don’t think the answer is for the Council to add more charge points, although I am sure it would help.
When the Councils are charging 30-40p/kWh there will always be the temptation for those without a driveway to charge at home when some plans are sub 5p/kWh at certain times of the day, or others have free electricity via solar panels.
I would just like to see a plan. A plan that has had proper consultation and the Council has the money to implement. Everything feels like firefighting at the moment.
30% have no driveway, and the answer is not to force them into very expensive charging, whether it is close or away from the home.
The Government has not helped by adding full VAT onto commercial chargers, which is not the case for domestic charging.
Last edited by noTAGlove; 28th August 2023 at 10:39.
I should have added it is not all about savings, and a lot is about convenience.
The convenience not to travel one mile to my Council chargers (usually full, and they also charge parking fees while charging!) and sit their for 3 hours on a 22kW charger.
Or, a mile down the road to a Shell service station which will take one hour round trip and 79p/kWh for the privilege.
Or the 20 mile, 90 minute round trip to the Ionity ultra rapid chargers on the M25 where I get a significant discount included with the car to charge at 35p/kWh.
It is not all about savings, although that is a large driver. A significant part is around the convenience, and the convenience of charging outside your house, and not have to make the 1-3 hour schlep to external chargers.
I can charge at work, but I mainly cycle to work and my wife drives to work. She has no charging facilities at her work.
Plus the job I am in means I am never at my central work location where the chargers are located, as I am a client with responsibility for technically assuring our Contractors on major projects. So, I travel to where our Contractors are located. Either a train or cycle ride away.
Hopefully that gives you are much better understanding for my motives.
Last edited by noTAGlove; 28th August 2023 at 11:02.
Tag love, you’ve definitely gone to an extreme imo which is admirable but it does make me wonder if someone will pretend to have an accident looking for compensation.
Might be worth seeing if you can custom order a length do you don’t have two pieces clipped together?
Be interested to see the LED and how obvious/bright it is.
I wonder if you could have a light which shines across it during the hours of operation? Unsure how someone will steal your plug unless it’s plugged in outside?
I am incredibly lucky to live in a very safe, almost crime free (as much as it can be) part of the UK.
This is reflected in my car insurance (before the EV) being sub £200, and my home and contents insurance (which I have just renewed) being just a smidge over £200, and that includes my Rolex sub as a named item which I think is £40 of the cost.
I balance this into my attitude to risk. The people around me are all working professionals, and I live in pretty much a cul de sac, so the same few people are the only people walking the pavements.
I have spoken with my neighbours who are fine with the whole set-up.
Nothing is perfect, and there is always risk. Factoring the area I live in, the footfall and the overnight hours, it is a risk I am happy to take.
The fact that I have not read to date a single article on a EV cable trip incident which has injured someone or gone to court (I am sure someone will post one now), and I have seen EV cables crossing much busier pavements, gives me confidence that my risk is acceptably low.
I may have a different attitude to risk if I lived in a terraced house on a busy road in Islington, Balham, Peckham etc.
The 3 pin plug is plugged into a proper weather proof 13 amp extension reel. The EV cables are not cheap and the photo below illustrates my set up to prevent a passer by walking off with it in the night.
A very heavy car would have to be jacked up first, and not sure it is worth the effort for second hand gumtree value.
Last edited by noTAGlove; 28th August 2023 at 12:02.
As of 8am this morning. It is a Bank Holiday, so I did sleep in a little.
Last edited by noTAGlove; 28th August 2023 at 11:29.
My Sister in law does some work for this outfit, they’re engaging with a lot of councils and other organisations around installing kerbside and street charging solutions.
https://char.gy/
Perhaps worth getting your local councilor working for their living and ask them what their plan is? Might not solve the end user cost issue, but Char.gy install everything and run the back end stuff, councils lease them the land/locations.
What car is that?
Volvo C40, if you are asking about the car in the photo above?
Yes. I thought the car looked like a volvo but wasn't sure. Thanks.
Been considering these as my next car. I do about 500 miles a week but could charge on a drive. Not sure about private purchase though as I'm freelance.
Thanks, but I can’t see an option or scheme for non-driveway domestic charging.
Street charging is currently 5 to 10 times the unit cost of the cheapest domestic charging, so there will always be the desire to domestically charge.
My neighbour recently considered electric and asked the council about lamp post charging, as he has one outside his house. The Council couldn’t have been less interested.
Am I the only person on the forum without a driveway domestically charging their EV car?
On my road alone there are 3 houses doing this out of around a total of 50 houses on either side of the road.
It doesn’t seem that uncommon to me. I guess if you live in an area with predominantly off street parking it may be new to you.
As others have said I think you've done all that can reasonably be expected with respect to cable routing. With respect to being held liable if someone tries to take legal action for a personal injury. The only thing that would be of benefit would be to have some CCTV coverage of the cable run. But how far do you take these things?
Lots of nearly new ones at good prices on Autotrader, £35k seems to be the going rate atm.
Yep, seems like the used price spread between EV and ICE is as low as it has ever been, and now seems like a great time to privately buy a nearly new EV.
Tell me about it, I’m trying to get the wife to swap.
Could use a bit of Roundup on that kerb line.I am incredibly lucky to live in a very safe, almost crime free (as much as it can be) part of the UK.
This is reflected in my car insurance (before the EV) being sub £200, and my home and contents insurance (which I have just renewed) being just a smidge over £200, and that includes my Rolex sub as a named item which I think is £40 of the cost.
I balance this into my attitude to risk. The people around me are all working professionals, and I live in pretty much a cul de sac, so the same few people are the only people walking the pavements.
I have spoken with my neighbours who are fine with the whole set-up.
Nothing is perfect, and there is always risk. Factoring the area I live in, the footfall and the overnight hours, it is a risk I am happy to take.
The fact that I have not read to date a single article on a EV cable trip incident which has injured someone or gone to court (I am sure someone will post one now), and I have seen EV cables crossing much busier pavements, gives me confidence that my risk is acceptably low.
I may have a different attitude to risk if I lived in a terraced house on a busy road in Islington, Balham, Peckham etc.
The 3 pin plug is plugged into a proper weather proof 13 amp extension reel. The EV cables are not cheap and the photo below illustrates my set up to prevent a passer by walking off with it in the night.
A very heavy car would have to be jacked up first, and not sure it is worth the effort for second hand gumtree value.
I wouldnt expect any council to be interested. Most, if not all street lights are looped and on 25mm cable fused at 25 amps. To reconfigure network would cost thousands and thousands and whos going to pick up the cost. If the network is already on its arse then transformer replacements would be next and costs even more outrageous.
It wasn’t so much for you or an alternative to your setup, but was a general pointer so that people can show councils that there is a demand and a potential solution, and without cost to Council Tax payers.
Councils default answer is usually ‘No’ to anything, but they sometimes need to be reminded who they work for is my point.
It’s often said in these types of discussion that 30% of houses don’t have driveways, but not everybody who lives in them will have a car, my sister and my father for two just in my immediate family. 100% of cars park somewhere for many hours a day though, that’s where the charging needs to be accessible, as well as at homes where they do have off street parking.
I benefit from off street parking, but I also spent a chunk of money installing my charging equipment in it.
One of my brothers lives in North London and has a car, although he has to pay to park it on the street nearby. Not everything is equitable in the land of motoring, nor indeed housing and is why houses with driveways and garages generally cost more.
There are ways for people to reduce the costs of public charging, I pay a monthly subscription to Elli and don’t pay more than 44p per kWh for even ultra rapid charging (something I can’t do at home either) and pay about three times the rate I do at home on slower AC charging.
There are some projects in London and the North East my sister in law has project managed where there are sockets in the street lamps/furniture, at kerb level under lift up covers as well as posts that rise from the pavement to plug into.
Stuff is happening, and should accelerate as demand increases, but it will take time.
I’ll get my hoe to do that.
I'm in the same boat - on a terraced street where I think every house apart from one doesn't have a driveway. To make it even harder, parking is really tricky and sometimes I have to park on one of the nearby roads, not even close to my house. So even if I did want to buy a EV car, I couldn't charge it at home, and would have to take it to a charging station at a petrol station or supermarket. Whilst this may seem extraordinary to many, it's a characteristic of living in SE London.
She’ll probably tell you to do it yourself
A man who got the joke!
I disagree they’ve done everything that can reasonably be expected. I would reasonably expect not to have a trip hazard on the pavement, which this is. It’s dangerous and not a good option to solve the problem of home charging.
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