Reply With Quotei have no issue with petrol heads not fancying it, its the boggo diesel saloon drivers that say they prefer an ice engine experience that i find it hard to take seriously.Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers
Charging a car with s 250 mile range once a week but only doing 200 miles is still over 10,000 miles a year!
The question should be Do you really need to be carrying round such a large battery?
Last edited by Dave+63; 3rd November 2023 at 12:10.
i have no issue with petrol heads not fancying it, its the boggo diesel saloon drivers that say they prefer an ice engine experience that i find it hard to take seriously.
that's a good point tbh.
And yet the honda e bombed, i think mainly due to the small battery.
Agreed, what we think we need and what we actually need are two different things.
My wife would given half a chance!
I'm a fence sitter at the moment and may jump next year. For me I don't want an SUV and the saloon type cars that interest me are out of budget currently e g. Kia EV6, Ioniq6, BMW i4. A Tesla doesn't appeal to me but I accept as an EV package it's pretty good. I'm of an age where I can't get my head around the list price of an electric Astra is approx £40k
I'm not interested in a lease / PCP so need to be comfortable about depreciation before jumping
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Lots of good second hand stuff for around £30k. Personally, I’m a big fan of the looks of the Polestar 2.
There’s also a new entry level BMW i4 at under £50k and if there’s a Vauxhall, there will also be Citroen and Peugeot versions either out now or around the corner.
CarWow seem to be offering these for around £35k, but for a similar amount I think you can do much better EV wise, particularly if you go the used or nearly new route.
The aforementioned Polestar 2 seems to start at £25k for an 55k mile example up to 35k for a single motor long range version with 6k miles, but all under 3 years old.
Its probably my poor explanation but in my mind an Astra was a standard means of transport that offered cheapish motoring as did say a Focus and even on a deal a new electric version is now £35k. Perhaps I'm just out of touch with car prices in general these days
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Things certainly have moved on, the cheapest petrol Astra is now over £26k. That said, the EV is still 50% more.
For £40k though, the Tesla 3 is still the one to go for.
We would swap my wife’s i3 for a Honda e, but the e has a woeful boot even compared to the i3 which renders it useless for anyone with kids of any age.
"Bite my shiny metal ass."
- Bender Bending Rodríguez
The i3 is pretty tardis like inside, we love ours.
Anyone on here have experience of the Cupra Born? I’ve decided to dip my toe into the electric car world despite my earlier cynicism on this thread. Looking at the V2 with the smaller battery
Im guessing its the same platform as the VW IDs but i could be wrong, if thats the case i don't think you have much to be worried about. Isn’t the range a bit better on the Born although they’re slightly more powerful. The wife wad looking at them a few months ago as a replacement.
Yes, ID3 platform but revised/different suspension and the detailing/styling is a bit sharper with different power options by the looks of it. Test driving imminently, we have a decent sized drive and rarely travel more than 50 miles from home so it seems a bit of a no brainer not to at least have a proper test drive. I was put off by the horribly cheap feeling MG4 - seats just weren’t supportive enough for my frame - but if the Born seats are usual VW quality it should be fine. Got to convince the wife to drive a non-manual car but she’ll have to give it a go!
Yes, my wife hated autos, whenever the discussion of automatic has come up in the past it was a straight no however since we've had the ID5 i cant see her going back.
Don’t discount the Skoda Enyaq. I’m on my second and in mine (and a lot of other peoples opinions) it’s the pick of the VW group EV’s based on the MEB platform.
I think the interior of the Enyaq is far nicer than the ID’s of which the Born is pretty much one of them.
I’d agree if SUV is your thing; the id3 and Born are more traditional hatchbacks.
My daughter intends to get an Enyaq to replace her MG ZS EV as it’s now a little on the small side since the arrival of my grandson.
Why are you not interested in a lease or pcp to protect your cash outlay for a new/used EV?
I don't buy new so the first owner takes the hit on depreciation. Lease doesn't appeal as I tend to hold onto my cars so don't want to jump onto that merry go round of everlasting monthly payments. PCP interest rates are pretty high at the moment. As I said I'm a fence sitter so currently undecided between ICE and EV so sitting tight and waiting following the market.
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Talking to a guy I know who is a salesman for a Honda main dealer. I asked him when the EVs were coming in to the showrooms, he said the one model as been delivered and it’s the medium size, cost £47k. He then went on to tell me all their EVs will carry a three year warranty for the car with the batteries having six years, but they will be no chance of purchasing an extended warranty for the batteries. Do not know how that stacks up against other manufacturers.
Think VW have 8 year or 100k mileage warranty on the battery, which ever happens first
Even eight years when there is no warranty it will render cars worthless knowing how much batteries will cost, or even can you replace them
No it won’t, look at the eight and over year old EVs for sale today, non of them are free!
Batteries are expected to outlast the rest of the car.
Are engines cheap and easy to produce for 8yo cars? Or gearboxes?
"Bite my shiny metal ass."
- Bender Bending Rodríguez
At this moment in time with ICE cars we know what to expect cost wise, batteries will be a whole new ball game, ie where cars are built around the batteries. I think a lot of folk purchasing private will hang around a fair few years before taking the plunge.
Do we, though? Modern ICE cars are pretty damn complicated!
Last edited by mutanthands; 4th November 2023 at 18:24.
Agree there are unknowns, but replacement Prius batteries are readily available. No reason to think there isnt an aftermarket / recon industry waiting to spring up here.
Or use scrap yards like happens today.
I think there is a mindset adjustment needed - some people think an EV is like a phone (always charging, readily defunct tech) and others want them to be drop in replacements for ICE cars. In reality they are neither.
"Bite my shiny metal ass."
- Bender Bending Rodríguez
Ask a lot of 1.0 tr Eco-boost owners, Land Rover owners their experience of engine longevity
There was a new video by Bjorn Nyland on YouTube last week about a Model S with a faulty battery, in Norway they seem to have a service centres for Evs already, it was taken there,stripped and sorted. Think it was caused by water ingress and a dead cell. Car back on the road in no time. Battery refurb centres will pop up all over the place and it’ll be no different to having your head gasket replaced
https://youtu.be/YXOnWuWpx-I?si=neUk-naR57xbk9JN
Last edited by Franky Four Fingers; 4th November 2023 at 18:31.
And don’t forget BMW announced their intention to have a range of hydrogen cars on the market by 2030
Just as Shell gets out, resulting in redundancies.
https://www.reuters.com/sustainabili...es-2023-10-25/
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Its still has a large battery surely…don't see the difference tbh?
Do Toyota still make the Mirai?
Previous CEO was set on hydrogen until the new CEO took over. Toyota are investing heavily in battery tech in the US, seems like theyre dropping/dropped hydrogen
Anyone on here got a 58kw ID3? If so whats the real life mileage like…sons looking at one?
Why car dealers are offering heavy discounts on electric vehicles
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2...a9a4c29a8ccf22
Does it really have a large battery?
The Hyundai Nexo, for example, only has a 1.6kWh battery, laregly for regenerative storage.
I suppose compared to some i guess not at 58kw, it’s the miles per kw which is key but was just wondering what people are achieving, my guess would be early 200s but could be more
Edit…sorry doh. Replied to the wrong question, sorry im not sure with the hydrogen Beamer
Last edited by Franky Four Fingers; 4th November 2023 at 21:54.
All year round approx 190 miles, and that was at a mix of motorway and A road speeds.
I did about 35k miles in an ID.3 1st Edition back in 2020-2022.
Summer range or if I tried even moderately to drive economically it was north of 200 miles, sometimes 230 miles.
Thanks
There’s not much info on battery size out there, but 10-15kWh seems to be mentioned quite a lot, the buffer for the high power I guess, as the Hydrogen fuel cell seems to output 125bhp or thereabouts.
Hydrogen hybrids going forwards? Why not, there’s room for a range of fuels going forwards and better than straight ICE passenger cars emissions wise, depending on how the hydrogen is manufactured of course.
Mind you, if people are worried about the complexity of BEVs now, there’s even more complexity in a FCEV.
As ever, time will tell.
Hydrogen as a fuel is doomed, at least in domestic applications.
Requires immense compression to store because it is the lowest molecular weight of any element.
And when compared to natural gas its danger at high concentrations is off the scale. Both are flammable, but unlike natural gas, hydrogen can detonate and the force of explosion is near order of magnitude greater than natural gas.
The only good things going for hydrogen in the process safety arena is that it is so light, if you get a leak it should disperse very quickly. Unless in a confined area.
No, 170 bhp.
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I guess we’ll see when and if it gets to production.
Your money, your choice but onward EV depreciation will far outweigh you funding it appropriately over a 3 or 4 year term whilst not tying up your equity in the meantime.
I’d personally recommend looking at a decent PHEV as the best compromise between a BEV and ICE car.
If I was looking at new then I think you're correct. However I did a quick search for an EV6 2022. Asking price £35000 apr 11.5% 10000 miles 36 month contract deposit £3517 GFV £19000 is £580
By my calculations in 3 years time if the depreciation is worse than the GFV I'll hand the keys back and the car will have cost me £24000 but I'll have nothing to show and be forced to jump on the finance merry go round again. If I purchased even if the depreciation is worse I still have a car which I can choose to keep - the flexibility of choosing when to purchase again appeals.
I bought my current car as an ex fleet at 12 months old for £23,000 9 years later the WBAC is still £5,000 so as you can tell I'm not a regular car changer !
Perhaps it's my age but PCP in my mind is to allow people to drive cars they can't really afford to own
I don't really see the benefit of a PHEV they seem to be the worst of both worlds so it will either be an ICE or EV but I'm sure others have a different view
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My car was 28K. Did I have 28K in the bank to buy it? Nope, can I easily afford the £300 a month to finance it, yes.
That's fine and as I said it's probably my age and the way I view car ownership. Can I ask if your deal ended this month would the numbers still look the same for you if you had to replace it
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There are a number of ways to finance and run a vehicle, non are right or wrong.
The only important factor is whether it’s right for whoever is running the vehicle.
Last edited by Dave+63; 5th November 2023 at 17:43.
Spot on
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