Reply With QuoteOriginally Posted by reggie747
Make your bloody mind up!!
For someone who doesn’t want an electric car, you seem to spend an awful lot of time on this thread.
Yeah, nice one however I don't want a leccy car.Here ya go. Bought by me just over a month ago for less than a new basic Honda Civic.
It’s 1.5 year old and will give me nigh on 250 miles to a full charge in this weather.
I find them soul-less, bit like bangin' a blow up doll.
That's also only what I imagine.... (before any smart arse steps in....)
Make your bloody mind up!!
For someone who doesn’t want an electric car, you seem to spend an awful lot of time on this thread.
Last edited by Dave+63; 13th June 2023 at 17:26.
Here ya go. Bought by me just over a month ago for less than a new basic Honda Civic.
It’s 1.5 year old and will give me nigh on 250 miles to a full charge in this weather.
What make & model, looks Kia / Hyundai?
Skoda Enyaq IV
Aaaaand cue the smart arse...
I have made up my mind. Get this........I don't want a leccy car.
And there's me thinking this was a discussion forum. GTF !!
When I used to fill my diesel ICE car up it was a 3 minute in and out job.
With the electrickery car I notice you are standing around for 15-20 mins at the ultra rapid chargers waiting to top up. It become a bit of a social space when the weather is warm and people chat along.
One of the unexpected benefits of charging is that you actually meet and talk to strangers. Not sure if that is a good or bad thing in the long run, as it depends who you meet along life's road.
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Do your just trolling then!
Ok, got it.
Have you driven a good one?
I’ve owned LOTS of cars, I consider myself a true petrolhead. I’ve got a base Tesla Model 3 and I find it a fantastic driving experience.
No lag, lightening-quick acceleration, excellent cornering, extremely planted with zero body roll. As a keen driver I couldn’t ask for any more!
Remember what your Mother used to tell ya Dave
Yes, Polestar 2 Dual Motor for a half day. Yes, it was fast as f*** but that was all there was to it. It didn't inspire me. Then again, I don't do and never have done millions of motorway miles in my working life.
And I think that was around 45-50 grand...
I think it is the other mothers that have to worry now, lol.Remember what your Mother used to tell ya Dave
Volvo sold (I think). Guy travelling 450 miles from Fife to collect it on Thursday! (nobody else will understand the relevance of that!)
Used Model 3’s are half that (mine was). Best car I’ve owned, by far.
Agree with other topics on here though, the charging infrastructure is way behind and those without the ability to have a charger at home are very disadvantaged.
Good stuff with the Volvo then, I didn't expect it would hang around.
Good luck finding yours.
Best priced one on motors.co.uk right now is 25 grand with 47.5k on it.
Carwow - 25 grand with 76k on it.
Autotrader 21.6 grand with 102k on it.
I still don't want one
People who say electric cars have no soul is a mostly pointless opinion. The only people who can really say that and actually justify it are people who are driving high end sports cars on a daily basis.
Your average Joe who has read in a magazine that electric cars have no soul and then just likes to regurgitate it during discussions surrounding electric cars, FFS, they are probably driving an BMW X3 or a Ford Focus. Your average combustion engine car stopped having a sound around 1990!
You don't have to drive a high end sportscar to experience sound for heavens sake.
After driving a Polestar for half a day and being moved around in the past in other electric cars, there isn't really a comparison to a car with a sound of induction and exhaust note.
The title of this thread are electric cars a viable option - To me they are not but to others they may be.
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxpWJDzQG...RsjF0188hN8zzn
Now, show me an electric car that can make a sound like that and I might be sold......(not)
To be fair to Reggie, he has a point re engine sounds, you’re either moved by them or you’re not.
I had an old Audi S2, 5 cylinder in-line, and I loved the off beat warble sound it made. Same with my wife’s old Z3 with a BMW straight six in it, a howling symphony at full chat.
Her Tesla makes some interesting whining sounds when head-butting the horizon, and it’s an event in itself of sorts, but it’s hard to compete with the soulful sound of a good internal combustion engine.
You can keep a four pit econobox though, they mostly sound thrashy to my ears.
I do miss a nice engine note, or the pop and bang of unburnt fuel in the exhaust.
I miss a manual gearbox too, I’ve not had one for 6-7 years.
One must accept progress though (eventually).
We’re you aware that you asked a question and got a sensible answer? Are you even mildly self aware?
You are definitely not a bot, even basic REGEX could do a better job of provoking angst.
"Bite my shiny metal ass."
- Bender Bending Rodríguez
If it wasn't for salary sacrifice there is no chance I'd own an EV. I have been bribed by HMRC to own one, not that I am complaining. It is no brainer for high or higher rate tax payers on salary sacrifice with or without home charging. Most on this thread will have been HMRC bribed too.
The title really should be 'are electric cars a viable option for private buyers'. Different story when you can't salary sacrifice that £800 pcm EV car lease at 2% BIK.
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What is this ? Mastermind ? 😂
This is simply not the case and I’m proof of that. All it takes to make an EV viable and cheaper is average or above mileage and the right EV tariff.
Quite. No noise needed for electric cars to be viable as a pure transport option but I still choose to jump in the Caterham when I have a chance.
(...and yes, the C40 falls into the 'HMRC bribe' category suggested earlier...)
Mine's a private purchase and it's entirely viable. For my purposes, and driving around the same roads as you do (I think we're in the same constituency?) it makes absolute, stone-cold economic sense. Plus it's nicer to drive.
I don't doubt it is viable as a private purchase, but definitely not as attractive as salary sacrifice. I believe the vast majority commenting are taking advantage of salary sacrifice(?), which is a no brainer. It would be interesting if those who comment could identify if it was private purchase or salary sacrifice.
Yes, we are in the same area I believe. I don't have off street parking, but can charge at work. I thought I'd use the chargers at Esher civic centre as it is not far from me. Only 30p/kWh which is not bad for 22 kW public charging, but the barstewards make you pay a parking tax on top of this, and outside of parking hours the chargers are rammed.
Fully electrickeried up today.
Wife drove the EV to work, and I cycled my electric Brompton to work.
Now at the vanguard of the transition! Well, as long as HMRC keep attractive salary sacrifice for electric cars and electric bikes.
If I thought that Evs were a cleaner option and offered longevity then I would be all for them, But I don't. Manufacturing and materials used make them anything but clean. The batteries are an unknown quantity regards lifetime and recycling, the infrastructure for charging and charge times are a problem. I am doubtful regarding the country being able to produce enough electricity for them and the methods needed to do so.
Apart from that they are brilliant...!
Last edited by redmonaco; 14th June 2023 at 19:37.
The lack of chargers is a total pain if you've not got driveway charging and would absolutely change the equation for me. I tried the very chargers you mention (I was going to Everyman anyway) and was pleasantly impressed, but there are way too few of them.
BTW - I tried the electric Brompton and couldn't stand it. Without the battery I found it an unpleasant thing to pedal - my leg-powered one is far more me.
Last edited by Longblackcoat; 14th June 2023 at 11:12.
Not necessarily, you don’t need to be paying £800 pcm for an EV.
Granted, a lot of EV sales have been due to the tax incentives but a lot of private buyers have also bought without the BIK benefits.
The higher payments are because it comes fully inclusive of everything from maintenance to insurance, roadside assistance to free tyres. And it is all salary sacrificed not just the car. That is the beauty of salary sacrifice.
Saying that my Volvo C40 is gross £609 per month for 3 years and 8,000 miles per year. But for that price the only extra I pay is for electrons (and I get to salary sacrifice the whole £609 pcm, of course).
Have you been asleep for the last ten years?
EVs are not perfect, nothing is, but they are a cleaner option than ICE.
Batteries are not an unknown quantity, twelve year old EVs are still on the road and running well.
Yes, the infrastructure still needs improving but always will but charging times are no longer an issue, 350kw chargers are already in use which are plenty quick enough for anyone. And I am aware that not all (or many currently) cars can charge at that speed but that’s not a charger problem.
And finally, I’ll not worry about whether we can produce enough electricity until the electric companies start to mention that they may have trouble supplying enough to meet demand.
I don’t really get why some people above think an EV is unviable because of their lack of sound. A car which sounds good might be preferable, but unviable? Especially since a number of ICE cars use fake engine noise anyway.
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You have a great deal there then and anyone in your position would be mad not to take advantage of tge incentives still currently available.
I still believe it’s viable without the incentives though, I’ve been driving the same EV since 2015 with the only real benefit being zero RFL, but that will change in 2025. I’ll still keep driving it though, I’ve no plans to go back to ICE.
Totally private purchase here, a little over a year ago. We still have a diesel Octavia for large loads and concurrent family needs which returns 60mpg comfortably but it barely gets a look in when there's a choice on the drive, clocking 2,500 miles in the year compared to 18,000 in the EV. Charging at home or work is cheap and easy and even on 400ish mile runs to Scotland I'd rather drive the EV any day. I like quiet motoring and it doesn't half shift when you need to overtake on a county road.
Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH
The arithmetic around EV costs has been quite volatile over the past 18 months - although ICE has not been immune either especially for diesel owners and the difference in price between diesel and petrol retail prices; I note a local garage now has diesel and petrol at the same price (competition enquiry pending???).
I'm still undecided but as a private buyer may wait a little while longer before replacing the current car, which will be 10 years old this year. I'm not wedded to the sound - what diesel owner would be !! However I'm old fashioned to like the car to have a decent cabin and build quality and so far it seems these come at a hefty price tag
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I drove past a station the other day where diesel was actually about a penny less than unleaded.
Private purchase here too. Happy with electric and would buy another but not a Tesla. If I won the lottery I’d have a Taycan Estate.
Summer. No demand for heating oil blended components.
It will widen in winter again.
I see, didn't know. Even allowing for that though I believe it's the first time ever I've seen it actually for less.
Put ours through the business however after being 5 months in i wont be going back to ICE vehicles.
Local Tesco Express forecourt had diesel 1p/l less than petrol today. It seems odd at first but will get used to it if it stays that way.
A big difference to the 20p+ more it was a few months ago.
Diesel is just a long chain paraffin. The heavier diesel components are in demand in the winter due to heating oil demand.
In the summer gasoline is in demand because it is holiday and driving season. That is the reason for the fluctuation.
That's rather harsh, no I haven't been asleep for the last 10 years...
Batteries are known to degrade over a 10 year period with cells dying so that memory loss reduces the amount of miles you can usefully get. You cant quote evs that are still going after 12 years as you don't know the usage they have been put through. Batteries use some extremely harmful substances which also harm the environment during mining and processing. There is no current method of recycling the majority of materials in a used ev battery. Car charging is still a problem as its not the near instantaneous act that putting fossil fuels in is. Regarding electricity production there have been plenty of warnings from electricity companies that current demand may not have been able to be met. Even last winter they were talking of possible problems. I'll make a prediction that evs will not be the solution and that within another 5 years or so another better method will come about.
It’s almost like you believe that any non-EV vehicle is constructed from nothing more than unicorn farts and butterfly wings, and the stuff that it burns is harmless and emits sweetness and light?! :-o
I hope that doesn’t come across as too harsh, but I haven’t found a credible study yet that doesn’t show a like for like EV uses far less CO2 and emits far less particulates than an ICE vehicle over its useful life.
Maybe there will be something coming down the line in a few years/decades that’s better, and if so great we can all start buying those, but for now there isn’t.
EV batteries might chemically be like those in your phone or your laptop, but they’re managed completely differently via sophisticated BMSs and just about all current ones are also water cooled/warmed to maximise lifespan. Even a knackered EV battery at 12 years old, if they are, will have a useful second life as a house power wall or similar. That’s if it can’t be recycled, which they already can be anyway.
If you don’t believe me, then Matt at CarWow (everybody’s favourite petrol head!) has a piece on it.
https://www.carwow.co.uk/blog/ev-bat...dead-batteries
I’m all for having a sensible and friendly debate about EVs, but we need to stick with the facts if it’s to mean anything.
This is the first time in over a decade that diesel has been cheaper than petrol. Given your explanation why isn’t it cheaper buying the summer months every year?
It is much more complicated than that.
Traditionally Russia supplied the Eastern European refineries with feed stock to make diesel, given Russian refineries have limited diesel upgrading capacity.
The Eastern European refineries in turn balanced Europe diesel demand.
You will have noticed that during the Ukraine conflict diesel prices went through the roof, due to supply of diesel at the margin being unavailable, due to Russia cutting off feed to European refineries.
Now we have more of a return to supply-demand balance over the summer as components to make heating oil which compete with diesel are much less in demand.
Without getting into too much detail it is a highly complex international market across continents, with end users have significant fluctuating demand across summer and winter.
The USA will also provide arbitrage given reduced diesel/fuel oil demand over the summer in the States. And massive tankers will ship the stuff to wherever the best price is.
Last edited by noTAGlove; 14th June 2023 at 22:04.
[QUOTE=Tooks;6227381]It’s almost like you believe that any non-EV vehicle is constructed from nothing more than unicorn farts and butterfly wings, and the stuff that it burns is harmless and emits sweetness and light?! :-o
I hope that doesn’t come across as too harsh, but I haven’t found a credible study yet that doesn’t show a like for like EV uses far less CO2 and emits far less particulates than an ICE vehicle over its useful life.
Maybe there will be something coming down the line in a few years/decades that’s better, and if so great we can all start buying those, but for now there isn’t.
EV batteries might chemically be like those in your phone or your laptop, but they’re managed completely differently via sophisticated BMSs and just about all current ones are also water cooled/warmed to maximise lifespan. Even a knackered EV battery at 12 years old, if they are, will have a useful second life as a house power wall or similar. That’s if it can’t be recycled, which they already can be anyway.
If you don’t believe me, then Matt at CarWow (everybody’s favourite petrol head!) has a piece on it.
https://www.carwow.co.uk/blog/ev-bat...dead-batteries
I’m all for having a sensible and friendly debate about EVs, but we need to stick with the facts if it’s to mean anything.[/QUOTE]
And the facts are that EVs haven't been around long enough and in sufficient numbers to know things like longevity and environmental cost. I'm not against EVs at all, I now drive less than 4k a years, am extremely environmentally aware and responsible. I'd love them to be the answer but I don't believe they are. And further I don't believe that they will play out as being more environmentally friendly over their lifetime. I think the real answer will be to drastically reduce the number of private vehicles and ramp up clean, fast, and cheap public transport.
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