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Thread: Electric cars-got to be a viable option now?

  1. #1301
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Mate's about 150 miles from home... Polestar 2.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

    'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory'.

  2. #1302
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    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    Mate's about 150 miles from home... Polestar 2.
    Has he tried turning it on and off again?!

    Many such errors will be cleared that way.

  3. #1303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicken Pox View Post
    Review here:
    https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-...h-review/46172

    Prices: Price: £57,115 (for Life model, Style £61,915, 1st Edition £62,995)

    "proper camper" California replacement to follow apparently, I guess you'll need your £70k+ for that
    I thought it seemed expensive, then saw how much VW ask for a diesel T6 California.

    £61,488 - £81,558, apparently. :-o

  4. #1304
    Craftsman Dr.Brian's Avatar
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    In the US, the infrastructure is just not there yet. There are states saying they want to ban non EVs in about 10 years time. Where are all these millions of vehicles going to charge, many of which canít just plug in at home overnight?

  5. #1305
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Brian View Post
    In the US, the infrastructure is just not there yet. There are states saying they want to ban non EVs in about 10 years time. Where are all these millions of vehicles going to charge, many of which can’t just plug in at home overnight?

    We need a LOT more of this type of thing. This is my head office, as a company we try hard to be climate conscious. Every parking space has bookable chargers. 100's of charging spaces.


  6. #1306
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickChard View Post
    We need a LOT more of this type of thing. This is my head office, as a company we try hard to be climate conscious. Every parking space has bookable chargers. 100's of charging spaces.

    Impressive! Where is that?

    The charging issue will be solved wherever cars park, no car is driving around 24/7, and at some point theyíll be parked either roadside or on a driveway/in a driveway or car park for hours.

    Thatís where the chargers need to be. Itís a challenge, but also an employment and revenue opportunity.

  7. #1307
    Quote Originally Posted by Tooks View Post
    Impressive! Where is that?

    The charging issue will be solved wherever cars park, no car is driving around 24/7, and at some point theyíll be parked either roadside or on a driveway/in a driveway or car park for hours.

    Thatís where the chargers need to be. Itís a challenge, but also an employment and revenue opportunity.

    It's up in Edinburgh, sadly it's not my local office otherwise I'd be using the facilities. I'm fortunate enough to be able to have a home charging point - you're right though, they need to be everywhere. I did my first 'long' trip in my EV last week, I stopped at a large motorway service station and there was only 1 charging point! I had to wait for it to be free to charge enough to get home. They make money, I simply don't understand why there weren't 10, instead of just 1!

  8. #1308
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickChard View Post
    It's up in Edinburgh, sadly it's not my local office otherwise I'd be using the facilities. I'm fortunate enough to be able to have a home charging point - you're right though, they need to be everywhere. I did my first 'long' trip in my EV last week, I stopped at a large motorway service station and there was only 1 charging point! I had to wait for it to be free to charge enough to get home. They make money, I simply don't understand why there weren't 10, instead of just 1!
    Yep, the service areas are very variable re charging, mostly bad!

    Iíve just got back from a 1000+ mile long weekend trip that started last Thursday, and charging was pretty straightforward even in Scotland. My last charge was at Wetherby Services on the Monday lunchtime, 15 rapid chargers but only about half of them actually worked. Took me 5 attempts to find one that worked, so when even more cars are EVs isnít a great sign. Gridserve need to do better, but I understand the Government are investing in the power supply infrastructure to such places.

  9. #1309
    Today I've had the guys out who inspect the meter, main fuse and spurs to make sure 100% that its 100 amps and ready for a home chargerÖthankfully i am. The chap was telling me that although many house may well be equipped with 100 amps a good majority especially terraced house arenít able to have one fitted due to their connection being looped. Any of these houses have to have their own supply fitted which should be covered by the electricity company.
    Interesting times ahead especially when theres a huge wait to get the work done

  10. #1310
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Today I've had the guys out who inspect the meter, main fuse and spurs to make sure 100% that its 100 amps and ready for a home chargerÖthankfully i am. The chap was telling me that although many house may well be equipped with 100 amps a good majority especially terraced house arenít able to have one fitted due to their connection being looped. Any of these houses have to have their own supply fitted which should be covered by the electricity company.
    Interesting times ahead especially when theres a huge wait to get the work done
    Yep, thatís an issue for some houses, also that a breaker with a 100A marker on the outside doesnít always have a 100A fuse in it.

    Fortunately, the DNO is responsible for unlooping supplies, and load monitoring smart EVSEs can be fitted in the meantime anyway that will drop the charge to the car when demand is high.

  11. #1311
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Does anyone know where to get a sensibly priced 1.5-2m type 2 charging cable?

    Are the coiled ones any good?

    I've found a 2m Mennekes 32a for £108 or 1.5m EV Extras coiled for £119. Seems high when the 4m via Tesla is £85

  12. #1312
    I am lucky that I have enough space for off road at home charging. Therefore, with the Tesla Model Y string by month end, I am getting a Tesla at home wall charger fitted and was a bit surprised at the cost!

    The charger itself is reasonable at £425 and is a nice looking piece of kit but installation by an electrician is another £500 - £650 on top.

    Thatís hurts a little especially as Octopus are not accepting new accounts due to the price cap changes and the uncertainty so I need to stay with Scottish Power for a little longer it seems.

  13. #1313
    Quote Originally Posted by Tooks View Post
    Yep, thatís an issue for some houses, also that a breaker with a 100A marker on the outside doesnít always have a 100A fuse in it.

    Fortunately, the DNO is responsible for unlooping supplies, and load monitoring smart EVSEs can be fitted in the meantime anyway that will drop the charge to the car when demand is high.
    Yes, it amazed me that some houses only have 60 and should be 100. The box its fitted in doesnt come with the fuse and the sparks especially many years ago routed around in the box and fitted anything they had 🤣

  14. #1314
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    Does anyone know where to get a sensibly priced 1.5-2m type 2 charging cable?

    Are the coiled ones any good?

    I've found a 2m Mennekes 32a for £108 or 1.5m EV Extras coiled for £119. Seems high when the 4m via Tesla is £85
    EV OneStop do reasonably priced 32A ones, 5m cable is £114.

    https://evonestop.co.uk/products/ev-...=9690528874543

    The cable is the cheap bit, itís the connectors that cost the cash, so cable length isnít the main driver.

  15. #1315
    Grand Master hogthrob's Avatar
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    I just specced up a at https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/en/elec...s/id-buzz.html and it came to £70k.

    Two tone paint is £1800, upgraded Infotainment is £1560, heated seats £2305, assistance pack (ACC etc) is £1424, and tool kit with jack is £90 (!)

  16. #1316
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tooks View Post
    EV OneStop do reasonably priced 32A ones, 5m cable is £114.

    https://evonestop.co.uk/products/ev-...=9690528874543

    The cable is the cheap bit, itís the connectors that cost the cash, so cable length isnít the main driver.
    Thanks Tooks but I'm looking for a shorter cable. I have the 4m Mennekes but it's just too long for most public charging spots - nightmare trying to untangle it each time. Hoping to keep both in the frunk and only use the 4m when I absolutely have to.

  17. #1317
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    Thanks Tooks but I'm looking for a shorter cable. I have the 4m Mennekes but it's just too long for most public charging spots - nightmare trying to untangle it each time. Hoping to keep both in the frunk and only use the 4m when I absolutely have to.
    Ah ok, got ya!

    Iíve no experience with the coiled leads, but they do look convenient, although given the warnings about not leaving a 32A cable coiled not sure whether thatís a great idea?

  18. #1318
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Yes, it amazed me that some houses only have 60 and should be 100. The box its fitted in doesnt come with the fuse and the sparks especially many years ago routed around in the box and fitted anything they had ūü§£
    It doesnít have to be 100. When I contacted Western Power to come out and upgrade my fuse from 60, they would only fit an 80.
    I challenged them on it but they flat refused saying 80 was ample.

  19. #1319
    Grand Master Mr Curta's Avatar
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    Ample amperes
    Inform - Educate - Entertain

  20. #1320
    My house has a 60a fuse fitted and has just been through a survey and PodPoint installation fine. It does also have the sensor installed to detect load, which mitigates any potential limitation somewhat. Time will tell if itís a concern.

  21. #1321
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    Post

    Apropos nothing, I just passed 20k miles travelled in my Nissan Leaf (bought at 40k) and it's been brilliant. Range has never been good (it's got a small battery so can't really fault it for that) but it's only ever used for journeys up to 40-40 miles - 90+% of what I do - so that's not been a limiting factor. Still shows a 110-120 mile range when fully charged (30kW battery).

    I added up what it's cost me to do this.

    Service: £130

    Insurance: £160

    Tyres: £200 (4 tyres, total £400, assume half-worn in 20k miles)

    Charge: £250 (I can charge at work for free and at home only charge at the super-cheap Octopus rate)

    Total cost/mile of 3.7p. There's zero depreciation (it's now worth more than I paid for it)


    Compare that to my other daily driver, a Mercedes E220, over the same distance

    Service: £500 (it's a 200k+ mile car that's 17 years old so something needs fixing every year. But there's no depreciation!)

    Insurance: £320

    Tyres: £300 (assume same wear rate as Leaf but they're more expensive)

    Road tax: £300

    Fuel: £4800


    A total of 31p/mile. Cheap for general motoring, but almost 10x the price of the Leaf.


    In both cases depreciation isn't a factor (one is so old it no longer applies, the other has appreciated) which is a bit of an oddity. Also there are no lease charges as I don't finance cars. In all other respects it's a fair comparison, though as I mainly use the Leaf for runaround duties the Mercedes gets used only for long runs and when we've a lot of stuff to move. Means the total cost is lower but the cost/mile would actually be higher.

    Leave aside the green-ness of the car and it's still a brilliantly effective vehicle - accelerates well, silent/smooth, has been utterly reliable, still has 3 years of manufacturers warranty on the battery and it's the one that everyone in the family likes to drive. Not exciting, agreed, but much-loved in our household. And you never need to go near a filling station in ordinary usage.

    I bought the Leaf as a cheap, dip-my-toe-in-the-water EV. I thought that it might be competent but I'd hate it. I'm now a total convert and wouldn't dream of buying another internal-combustion car. The Mercedes replacement will probably be a Kia 6 or Megane E-Tech, which will cover big-car duties.
    Last edited by Longblackcoat; 8th September 2022 at 12:21.

  22. #1322
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    Has anyone here tried the MG offerings? There are some very competitive private leasing deals currently where I live.
    Thanks!

  23. #1323
    Quote Originally Posted by Barchettaman View Post
    Has anyone here tried the MG offerings? There are some very competitive private leasing deals currently where I live.
    Thanks!

    I own an MG ZS EV (mk 1) and it's amazing. Happy to answer any questions.

  24. #1324
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickChard View Post
    We need a LOT more of this type of thing. This is my head office, as a company we try hard to be climate conscious. Every parking space has bookable chargers. 100's of charging spaces.

    Pleased to read NatWest have upped their game. I worked at that office until 3 years ago and they had 3 charging points that I knew of (one of which was unofficially ďreservedĒ for an exec)

  25. #1325
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barchettaman View Post
    Has anyone here tried the MG offerings? There are some very competitive private leasing deals currently where I live.
    Thanks!
    My daughter has a ZS EV too and still loves it two years on. Itís the only car sh has kept for more than six months.

    I tried an MG5 and was impressed with it. I havenít bought one but may go for the facelift LR model soon.

  26. #1326
    Iíve ordered a commercial Id buzz last month top spec and about £50k
    Similar to a top spec t6.1 transporter
    Vw fit a charge point a few weeks before delivery

  27. #1327
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Ionic 6 looks great!

    I'm still perplexed at some of the reticence to move to EV on a like for like basis - guy at work could have gotten a well specced Porsche Taycan but went for a BMW M5 instead. This blew my mind and when I asked him what the heck he was thinking he said he can get an EV any time in the future but ICE cars will become less available.

    Luckily the M5 is on a lease as surely that will shed value as we get closer to the day that only EVs can be sold, plus the various taxes on the BMW make it way more expensive to drive than the Taycan.
    Iíd imagine it will have the opposite effect. As supply ceases prices will increase

  28. #1328
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    This will solve most charging issues. That and the actual car price. But let's face it can you see our UK infrastructure being able to support this amount of KW any time soon?

  29. #1329
    Quote Originally Posted by Tooks View Post
    Has he tried turning it on and off again?!

    Many such errors will be cleared that way.
    Distributor cap probably needs a squirt of WD40.

  30. #1330
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    Quote Originally Posted by hogthrob View Post
    ICE ranges and consumption have always been 'optimistic', so this isn't that much of a black mark against EVs.
    The realistic V WLTP on my electric BMW is circa 10% under as a rule, but in mild weather can easily be exceeded by 10%. I have never owned a petrol, diesel or PHEV in my 30+ years of driving which has ever come as close to published figures. I accept winter and extreme heat can cause loss of efficiency, but modern PHEV cars quoting 200mpg is ridiculous, at the very best my PHEV BMW achieved 80mpg. Electric is superb, I certainly would never go back. The running costs alone make it worthwhile at less than £40/month.

  31. #1331
    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    Thanks Tooks but I'm looking for a shorter cable. I have the 4m Mennekes but it's just too long for most public charging spots - nightmare trying to untangle it each time. Hoping to keep both in the frunk and only use the 4m when I absolutely have to.
    Make sure you get a cable rated for 22kw as some of the Tesco chargers are 22kw and if you have a 7kw cable it will downrate the charging speed. Many cars can't charge faster so that is the default but Tesla have 16 kW (I think) AC/DC convertor.

    Also have a look at EV Charge King in Belgium - they make cables with the Tesla button in them for added convenience.

  32. #1332
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    Quote Originally Posted by number2 View Post
    Mate's about 150 miles from home... Polestar 2.
    What was the issue in the end?

  33. #1333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barchettaman View Post
    Has anyone here tried the MG offerings? There are some very competitive private leasing deals currently where I live.
    Thanks!
    The MG EV4 is getting rave reviews at the moment.

    Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
    Friedrich Nietzsche


  34. #1334
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    My residential car park is offering a scheme where for £10 per month you get unlimited charging (3 pin slow 2 kw/h speed). No brainer really.

  35. #1335
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    My residential car park is offering a scheme where for £10 per month you get unlimited charging (3 pin slow 2 kw/h speed). No brainer really.
    Are you guaranteed a charging point every night Ryan? If so, that is is remarkable deal, I'd bite their hands off.

  36. #1336
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MB2 View Post
    Make sure you get a cable rated for 22kw as some of the Tesco chargers are 22kw and if you have a 7kw cable it will downrate the charging speed. Many cars can't charge faster so that is the default but Tesla have 16 kW (I think) AC/DC convertor.

    Also have a look at EV Charge King in Belgium - they make cables with the Tesla button in them for added convenience.
    Sorry, missed this the other day. Thanks, will go have a look now.

  37. #1337
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggertech View Post
    Are you guaranteed a charging point every night Ryan? If so, that is is remarkable deal, I'd bite their hands off.
    Yep my space has a charging point. It is £220 a month though so not exactly charity stuff but that's the price whether it is an EV or ICE car

  38. #1338
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    Today I've had the guys out who inspect the meter, main fuse and spurs to make sure 100% that its 100 amps and ready for a home chargerÖthankfully i am. The chap was telling me that although many house may well be equipped with 100 amps a good majority especially terraced house arenít able to have one fitted due to their connection being looped. Any of these houses have to have their own supply fitted which should be covered by the electricity company.
    Interesting times ahead especially when theres a huge wait to get the work done
    How is it intended to work with terrace houses in any event, are we destined for a period in time where we are constantly having to avoid charging cable trip hazards laying across pavements, or have i missed something?

  39. #1339
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~dadam02~ View Post
    How is it intended to work with terrace houses in any event, are we destined for a period in time where we are constantly having to avoid charging cable trip hazards laying across pavements, or have i missed something?
    Yes, youíve missed that most streets have lampposts which are powered by electricity and many of those are having charge sockets fitted, my sister in law is working a project where kerb sockets are installed on terraced streets. Thereís also work place charging, charge posts would be easy to fit to every car park space in car parks (when required) and also that low mileage drivers will just rapid charge now and again to cover their needs, similar to visiting a petrol station now.

    None of this stuff is complicated, but it will require investment (which will bring jobs for install and maintenance) and political as well as public will.

    Very few cars are running 24/7, theyíre parked way more than theyíre driven, thatís where the charging needs to be whether thatís your driveway/garage or anywhere else your car spends a lot of time sat there. They donít need to be rapid charge points, an overnight charge will be more than adequate for most peoples needs.

  40. #1340
    Master Ruggertech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Yep my space has a charging point. It is £220 a month though so not exactly charity stuff but that's the price whether it is an EV or ICE car
    So you are saying for an extra tenner you can charge every night? If so, sign up...now.

  41. #1341
    Quote Originally Posted by Tooks View Post
    Yes, youíve missed that most streets have lampposts which are powered by electricity and many of those are having charge sockets fitted, my sister in law is working a project where kerb sockets are installed on terraced streets. Thereís also work place charging, charge posts would be easy to fit to every car park space in car parks (when required) and also that low mileage drivers will just rapid charge now and again to cover their needs, similar to visiting a petrol station now.

    None of this stuff is complicated, but it will require investment (which will bring jobs for install and maintenance) and political as well as public will.

    Very few cars are running 24/7, theyíre parked way more than theyíre driven, thatís where the charging needs to be whether thatís your driveway/garage or anywhere else your car spends a lot of time sat there. They donít need to be rapid charge points, an overnight charge will be more than adequate for most peoples needs.
    Youíve missed that thereís only something like one lamppost for a dozen or more houses and many arenít even kerbside so thereís still problem of trailing wires. If EVs are commonplace most people will be disappointed and no doubt some will hog charger all night.
    (No mention of under-road inductive charging thoughÖ)

  42. #1342
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggertech View Post
    So you are saying for an extra tenner you can charge every night? If so, sign up...now.
    Yep, already done. Apparently it is a local council initiative to get more EVs bought.

  43. #1343
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Youíve missed that thereís only something like one lamppost for a dozen or more houses and many arenít even kerbside so thereís still problem of trailing wires. If EVs are commonplace most people will be disappointed and no doubt some will hog charger all night.
    (No mention of under-road inductive charging thoughÖ)
    Didnít miss it, just mentioned it alongside kerbside charging which requires works to be carried out on pavements. The lamppost thing is more to say that there is power on just about every street already, it just needs to be accessed.

    Induction charging is a good concept, but as of now itís inefficient, almost no existing EVs can use it, and itís more expensive to install than the simpler solutions.

    There is a relatively simple solution to every problem with regard to charging a car without home charging, but many people without home charging are running an EV already without dedicated street side charging. Neighbours of ours charge their Leaf whilst doing the weekly shop at the supermarket and theyíre covered for the rest of the weeks mileage. They have a driveway too.

    When there are sufficient EVs out there, and they outnumber the lampposts in a street, then perhaps weíll see the changes that are required for those households.

  44. #1344
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    VW Buzz looking good as a family option.

  45. #1345
    Master Ruggertech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    Yep, already done. Apparently it is a local council initiative to get more EVs bought.
    Wow, so as long as you don't drive further than the vehicles range your entire years 'fuel' bill is £120!
    I don't have an electric car myself but that would definitely be the tipping point.

  46. #1346
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruggertech View Post
    Wow, so as long as you don't drive further than the vehicles range your entire years 'fuel' bill is £120!
    I don't have an electric car myself but that would definitely be the tipping point.
    If you see my post from a week back, my entire year's electricity charge for 20k miles will be perhaps £250 - a mixture of free charging at work and super-cheap off-peak charging at home. Genuinely the cheapest vehicle (other than a bicycle) that I've ever owned.

  47. #1347
    I still think EVís are a rich mans toy at their current prices. My eldest son just bought a really lovely VW scirocco 1,4tsi with a years warranty and full vw service history for just over £8k. 40k miles on the clock and heís delighted with it. I appreciate he has to spend money filling it with petrol, but he needs a car for work and an electric car is way out of his reach. We have a drive with plenty of room so an EV charger would be a doddle but at current prices, for young drivers itís a bit of a nonsense imho. All this talk of economy when the cars themselves cost a small fortune. I know itís all about the environment but when you have limited funds that all goes out the window. He has plenty of mates driving cars that cost them £2k tops, and living in a rural area if you want to work you need a car. I think weíre a few years away from young drivers buying EVís!


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  48. #1348
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobDad View Post
    I still think EVís are a rich mans toy at their current prices. My eldest son just bought a really lovely VW scirocco 1,4tsi with a years warranty and full vw service history for just over £8k. 40k miles on the clock and heís delighted with it. I appreciate he has to spend money filling it with petrol, but he needs a car for work and an electric car is way out of his reach. We have a drive with plenty of room so an EV charger would be a doddle but at current prices, for young drivers itís a bit of a nonsense imho. All this talk of economy when the cars themselves cost a small fortune. I know itís all about the environment but when you have limited funds that all goes out the window. He has plenty of mates driving cars that cost them £2k tops, and living in a rural area if you want to work you need a car. I think weíre a few years away from young drivers buying EVís!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yup, they need to be about £10-15k used with 200 to 300 mile range to convince most people to bin a normal car.

  49. #1349
    They will be, the same way a 60k BMW 5 years ago is now.

  50. #1350
    Master vagabond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franky Four Fingers View Post
    They will be, the same way a 60k BMW 5 years ago is now.
    Not sure - 5 year old Nissan Leaf prices seem to be holding up quite well. Depreciation isn't as bad as an equivalent ICE car.

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