Electric cars-got to be a viable option now?

[jaytip]

I’m back looking at an Enyaq again as I’ve tried one on the smaller wheels at it felt much nicer.
Now I’m trying to work out charging costs at this moment in time. I understand that tariffs will change and as such the cost of charging will also.
Octopus do a tariff called Octopus Go which offers 5p per kWh between 00:30 and 04:30 and 15.91p thereafter.
So based on a charging time of 9:30 hours for a full charge using a 7kw charger using the optimal four hours of reduced pricing, I’m guessing (my maths are crap, this is a guesstimate) it’s between £5-£7 for a charge. Would that be about right or am I way off?

[Tooks]

I’m back looking at an Enyaq again as I’ve tried one on the smaller wheels at it felt much nicer.
Now I’m trying to work out charging costs at this moment in time. I understand that tariffs will change and as such the cost of charging will also.
Octopus do a tariff called Octopus Go which offers 5p per kWh between 00:30 and 04:30 and 15.91p thereafter.
So based on a charging time of 9:30 hours for a full charge using a 7kw charger using the optimal four hours of reduced pricing, I’m guessing (my maths are crap, this is a guesstimate) it’s between £5-£7 for a charge. Would that be about right or am I way off?

I’m not up to speed on Enyaq battery sizes, is it the 77kWh one you’re looking at?

The most you’ll get over that 4 hour Go period is 28kWh. I’m ignoring charging losses here, no charge is 100% efficient.

So from zero charge, 28kWh at 5p per kWh is £1.40. That leaves 49kWh to go, at 15.91p per kWH which is £7.80.

Add that together and you’re at £9.20, you’d probably need to add 10% on top of that to cover charging losses, not everything drawn from the wall goes into the battery.

Compare that to 24/7 tariff like the one I’m on at circa 12p per kWh, and the same charge would cost £9.24, plus charging losses.

I’d you’re not using the entire battery every day, then Go is a good tariff, but if you need the flexibility of plugging in whenever you want/need to (for Taxi work?), then a cheap standard tariff might work better.

[jaytip]

I’m not up to speed on Enyaq battery sizes, is it the 77kWh one you’re looking at?

The most you’ll get over that 4 hour Go period is 28kWh. I’m ignoring charging losses here, no charge is 100% efficient.

So from zero charge, 28kWh at 5p per kWh is £1.40. That leaves 49kWh to go, at 15.91p per kWH which is £7.80.

Add that together and you’re at £9.20, you’d probably need to add 10% on top of that to cover charging losses, not everything drawn from the wall goes into the battery.

Compare that to 24/7 tariff like the one I’m on at circa 12p per kWh, and the same charge would cost £9.24, plus charging losses.

I’d you’re not using the entire battery every day, then Go is a good tariff, but if you need the flexibility of plugging in whenever you want/need to (for Taxi work?), then a cheap standard tariff might work better.

Thanks for this. It’s actually the 58 kWh battery that I’m looking at to get the government grant.

[Dave+63]

Have you checked the lead time on the Enyaq, is it still 6 months?

[Tooks]

Thanks for this. It’s actually the 58 kWh battery that I’m looking at to get the government grant.

Ah ok, yes around £7 from empty to full is a good working assumption then on that Go tariff for the 58kWh including charging losses.

[Franky Four Fingers]

Just driven and had a look around the ioniq 5, not that impressed to be honest. Couldn’t quite put my finger on it. There’s a funny lip on the sill that hits your ankles and I’m not that taken in the dash. Another one crossed off the list


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[Dave+63]

Just driven and had a look around the ioniq 5, not that impressed to be honest. Couldn’t quite put my finger on it. There’s a funny lip on the sill that hits your ankles and I’m not that taken in the dash. Another one crossed off the list


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Have you tried the Ford Mach E?

It’s my favourite so far.

[forpetesake]

Not sure it's exactly the same I would not be buying a Ice car where the fuel tank is getting smaller limiting my driving time/range.

Should this be the case, it would surely have profound implications for society and the economy.
At present, the cost threshold to pre-owned ICE car ownership is relatively low and offers the freedom of unrestricted mileage personal transport to a wide spread of income groups. Low cost brings an affordable means of commuting and unrestricted mileage enables family holidays to the coast.
If people living in terraced housing are denied practical access to charging or if manual workers can afford only an EV with a range so severely limited that it denies them holidays, this would constitute more than a mere inconvenience. It would be felt as withdrawal of a fundamental liberty and discriminatory and inequitable because only those in new £30+K cars would remain truly mobile. It would surely provoke a powerful political reaction.
I do hope things don't turn out that way but am uncertain if it will all work out okay if left solely to the market economy.
In the meantime, I'm glad the early adopters appear so pleased.

[UMBROSUS]

Should this be the case, it would surely have profound implications for society and the economy.
At present, the cost threshold to pre-owned ICE car ownership is relatively low and offers the freedom of unrestricted mileage personal transport to a wide spread of income groups. Low cost brings an affordable means of commuting and unrestricted mileage enables family holidays to the coast.
If people living in terraced housing are denied practical access to charging or if manual workers can afford only an EV with a range so severely limited that it denies them holidays, this would constitute more than a mere inconvenience. It would be felt as withdrawal of a fundamental liberty and discriminatory and inequitable because only those in new £30+K cars would remain truly mobile. It would surely provoke a powerful political reaction.
I do hope things don't turn out that way but am uncertain if it will all work out okay if left solely to the market economy.
In the meantime, I'm glad the early adopters appear so pleased.

Not sure of the relevance or if you have read my posts on this topic or just forund a reply to another members post?

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[Franky Four Fingers]

Have you tried the Ford Mach E?

It’s my favourite so far.

Not sure what they call them now but not all Ford dealerships do the electric / mustang vehicles....think they’re called Mach centres?
So no I haven’t yet but it’s a journey I’ll be making before I make my mind up.

[Dave+63]

Should this be the case, it would surely have profound implications for society and the economy.
At present, the cost threshold to pre-owned ICE car ownership is relatively low and offers the freedom of unrestricted mileage personal transport to a wide spread of income groups. Low cost brings an affordable means of commuting and unrestricted mileage enables family holidays to the coast.
If people living in terraced housing are denied practical access to charging or if manual workers can afford only an EV with a range so severely limited that it denies them holidays, this would constitute more than a mere inconvenience. It would be felt as withdrawal of a fundamental liberty and discriminatory and inequitable because only those in new £30+K cars would remain truly mobile. It would surely provoke a powerful political reaction.
I do hope things don't turn out that way but am uncertain if it will all work out okay if left solely to the market economy.
In the meantime, I'm glad the early adopters appear so pleased.

Buy a car with a small tank and you’ll fill up more often. Similarly, if you buy an EV with a small battery, you’ll have to charge more often.

Batteries in EVs are getting bigger and these will filter down the price range as they get older. Yes, the range may be 10-15% lower than new ones but it won’t exactly be restrictive.

Your post also got me thinking, what if petrol was rationed in the aim of going greener? It could well happen that everyone is allowed say, 20 litres per week.

In addition, perhaps cheap motoring shouldn’t be a right and should only be for only those who can afford it. Of course there’d have to be a substantial improvement in cheap public transport.

[Dave+63]

Not sure what they call them now but not all Ford dealerships do the electric / mustang vehicles....think they’re called Mach centres?
So no I haven’t yet but it’s a journey I’ll be making before I make my mind up.

You must try one; we drove one in the same week as a Q4, Q5 and EQA and the Ford was head and shoulders above the other three in our opinion.

[Peter franks]

I appreciate we can't rely on ICE forever but I really don't think we are there yet with EV ...
As ever you guys getting in early are reaping the benefits but taxation and smart tariffs for charging are coming and then the cracks will start to show.
For me the big issue is cost of purchase, we can't all afford 500 a month for a car and whilst these things are so expensive its a non starter for me.
For example we are touring the UK for holidays this year in a car that cost me 5k 3 years ago , I have driven from Cornwall to Scotland via Liverpool and the Lake District so far its cost less than £100 in diesel with 4 of us in the car and plenty of luggage.

Show me an EV that can do the same and im in...

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[Franky Four Fingers]

You must try one; we drove one in the same week as a Q4, Q5 and EQA and the Ford was head and shoulders above the other three in our opinion.

Is the boot opening flat with the seal/lip or is there a drop down in to the boot, can’t really tell on the vids?

[Franky Four Fingers]

I appreciate we can't rely on ICE forever but I really don't think we are there yet with EV ...
As ever you guys getting in early are reaping the benefits but taxation and smart tariffs for charging are coming and then the cracks will start to show.
For me the big issue is cost of purchase, we can't all afford 500 a month for a car and whilst these things are so expensive its a non starter for me.
For example we are touring the UK for holidays this year in a car that cost me 5k 3 years ago , I have driven from Cornwall to Scotland via Liverpool and the Lake District so far its cost less than £100 in diesel with 4 of us in the car and plenty of luggage.

Show me an EV that can do the same and im in...

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So how many miles you done roughly?

[Dave+63]

Is the boot opening flat with the seal/lip or is there a drop down in to the boot, can’t really tell on the vids?

I can’t remember to be honest.

[Kingstepper]

In addition, perhaps cheap motoring shouldn’t be a right and should only be for only those who can afford it. Of course there’d have to be a substantial improvement in cheap public transport.

And make it even cheaper for those who can afford it by giving them grants and charging everyone else fuel duty.

Seems fair.

[hill]

If people made to keep cars for 10 years instead of turning out shit after shit after shit, the environment would be a better place. Consumarism gone mad.

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[Tooks]

If people made to keep cars for 10 years instead of turning out shit after shit after shit, the environment would be a better place. Consumarism gone mad.

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The issue isn’t how long people keep a car, it’s what they run on.

Nobody is scrapping a 3 year old ICE just because they replace it with an EV are they.

The idea is that over time the U.K. fleet of passenger cars moved over to less impactful ones.

Note, less impactful, not ‘green’, as no vehicle is green. No car at all is the greenest option.

[walkerwek1958]

Everyone’s concerned about battery life with electric cars, but what are they like for engine and gearbox wear? I would expect the engines to be very robust and capable of long life but I’ve no idea what the maintenance requirements are likely to be.

I’ve fitted new brushes to power tools and washing machine motors in the past but that’s the limit of my experience with electric motors.

[Tooks]

Everyone’s concerned about battery life with electric cars, but what are they like for engine and gearbox wear? I would expect the engines to be very robust and capable of long life but I’ve no idea what the maintenance requirements are likely to be.

I’ve fitted new brushes to power tools and washing machine motors in the past but that’s the limit of my experience with electric motors.

The most common motor type in EVs nowadays are brushless permanent magnet synchronous motors, maintenance free and very long lived.

There’s a controller that makes it work which like any electronics could go wrong I suppose, and there’s no gearbox as such but just a transfer gear which is simple and robust because of it.

The Porsche Taycan/Audi e-tron RS GT do have a two speed gearbox, to get a higher top speed, the single gear in most EVs is why they max out around the 100mph mark.

[jaytip]

Have you checked the lead time on the Enyaq, is it still 6 months?

Frustratingly they are now up to 30 weeks. I was hoping to get something that was already built and available but no such luck.
I’ve decided there is no way I’m leasing a taxi for £200 a week for 30 weeks while waiting for it to be built so I’m going tomorrow to place my order for an MG5
The salesman told me they are coming in next month so while it’s not the car I particularly want, it’s
A) the cheapest
B) available without the wait.

[Dave+63]

Frustratingly they are now up to 30 weeks. I was hoping to get something that was already built and available but no such luck.
I’ve decided there is no way I’m leasing a taxi for £200 a week for 30 weeks while waiting for it to be built so I’m going tomorrow to place my order for an MG5
The salesman told me they are coming in next month so while it’s not the car I particularly want, it’s
A) the cheapest
B) available without the wait.

If you place your order for the Enyaq at the same time, you’ll probably get most of your money back on the MG when it arrives.

[Chris_in_the_UK]

I'm going tomorrow to place my order for an MG5
The salesman told me they are coming in next month so while it’s not the car I particularly want, it’s
A) the cheapest
B) available without the wait.

They are cheap and available for a reason.

[Dave+63]

They are cheap and available for a reason.

They’re actually pretty good cars and are very popular amongst taxi drivers.

I was in my daughters ZS EV today and she still loves it and said she’d never go back to ICE.

[Franky Four Fingers]

The salesman told me they are coming in next month so while it’s not the car I particularly want, it’s
A) the cheapest
B) available without the wait.

​Not the 2 best reasons to choose a car.

[Chris_in_the_UK]

They’re actually pretty good cars and are very popular amongst taxi drivers.

I was in my daughters ZS EV today and she still loves it and said she’d never go back to ICE.

They are not good cars IMHO.

The safety rating is not great.

Taxi drivers probably like them as they are cheap, plastic and disposable - my earlier comment was not related to the method of propulsion.

We all have different needs and expectations with cars (clearly), glad your daughter is happy with her wheels.

[Dave+63]

No they are not good cars, period.

Taxi drivers probably like them as they are cheap, plastic and disposable - my earlier comment was not related to the method of propulsion.

I can only comment on the car I’m familiar with and from what I’ve seen and what my daughter has said, I’d have no qualms about buying one.

They’re certainly not a bad car.

[Chris_in_the_UK]

I can only comment on the car I’m familiar with and from what I’ve seen and what my daughter has said, I’d have no qualms about buying one.

Of course Dave - I edited my earlier comment as it was a bit short.

I would never buy/lease one, ever. Most people are not 'into cars' and their buying/leasing choices are probably (definitely?) different to mine I suspect. Likewise with a Tesla - I know most who drive them love them, but I would not put a penny into Musk' pocket - ever.

I watch with interest though and suspect our next 'main' car will not be ICE alone.

[Dave+63]

Of course Dave - I edited my earlier comment as it was a bit short.

I would never buy/lease one, ever. Most people are not 'into cars' and their buying/leasing choices are probably (definitely?) different to mine I suspect. Likewise with a Tesla - I know most who drive them love them, but I would not put a penny into Musk' pocket - ever.

I watch with interest though and suspect our next 'main' car will not be ICE alone.

To each their own Chris but they’re really not a bad car. They’ll never be anyone’s dream car though, that’s for sure.

It all depends on what you want from a car; if you’re not really into cars, then they are as good as many others.

[Chris_in_the_UK]

To each their own Chris but they’re really not a bad car. They’ll never be anyone’s dream car though, that’s for sure.

It all depends on what you want from a car; if you’re not really into cars, then they are as good as many others.

I am sure you are right - just not one I would spend money on/drive.

[Peter franks]

So how many miles you done roughly?

About 700 so far, will be About 1600 ish by the end of the trip so possibly around £170 in fuel at current consumption.

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[Franky Four Fingers]

About 700 so far, will be About 1600 ish by the end of the trip so possibly around £170 in fuel at current consumption.

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So 1600 miles would cost you well under £100 and other than the inconvenience of charging most current EVs would be capable of that journey.


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[magirus]

They are cheap and available for a reason.

Sure as hell not cheap in most people's worlds Chris.

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Sure as hell not cheap in most people's worlds Chris.

I should have said 'comparatively' Bob.

[jaytip]

They are cheap and available for a reason.

And what reason would that be? I said it’s the cheaper option yes, but it’s very similar on price to an ID.3, which I had dismissed because the boot is simply too small. Both the ID.3 and the MG5 are some way cheaper than my preferred choice of the Enyaq.
It has a 7 year warranty and while no Euro NCAP results are available for the MG yet, it’s sister electric car the MGZS EV scored five stars. So what is this reason you are talking about?
Dacias are cheap too, and they are absolutely everywhere.

[jaytip]

The salesman told me they are coming in next month so while it’s not the car I particularly want, it’s
A) the cheapest
B) available without the wait.

​Not the 2 best reasons to choose a car.

Would I buy one as a personal car? No. But this is going to be a taxi, so the reasons and choices behind buying one change.
It’s the cheapest electric car available of the correct size, it has a decent range and it has a seven year warranty.

[jaytip]

They are not good cars IMHO.

The safety rating is not great.

Taxi drivers probably like them as they are cheap, plastic and disposable - my earlier comment was not related to the method of propulsion.

We all have different needs and expectations with cars (clearly), glad your daughter is happy with her wheels.

Care to direct me to these safety ratings? I’ve had a look online and there aren’t any NCAP ratings out yet.
MG’s other fully electric car scores five stars however, so my guess is the MG5 should fare pretty well too.

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Care to direct me to these safety ratings? I’ve had a look online and there aren’t any NCAP ratings out yet.
MG’s other fully electric car scores five stars however, so my guess is the MG5 should fare pretty well too.

Autocar test report.

If you are simply leasing for a business then it probably makes financial sense.

[jaytip]

Autocar test report.

If you are simply leasing for a business then it probably makes financial sense.

Don’t get me wrong, I think the car is properly fugly and if the Enyaq was available for delivery next month it would be my choice, but the thought of spending 6K to lease one for seven months waiting for an Enyaq to be built is one I just can’t stomach. It’s dead money.

[Chris_in_the_UK]

And what reason would that be? I said it’s the cheaper option yes, but it’s very similar on price to an ID.3, which I had dismissed because the boot is simply too small. Both the ID.3 and the MG5 are some way cheaper than my preferred choice of the Enyaq.
It has a 7 year warranty and while no Euro NCAP results are available for the MG yet, it’s sister electric car the MGZS EV scored five stars. So what is this reason you are talking about?
Dacias are cheap too, and they are absolutely everywhere.

As I said earlier, people perceive and enjoy cars for very different reasons.

I drove every medium sized SUV a while ago - the Hyundai/Dacia/Nissan variants had a big price advantage over the Audi/Bmw/VW gang but they were not, in any way, comparable in terms of materials/build quality and experience to drive. I am particular in this respect - many are not, which is fine. I now only drive a car for my pleasure as opposed to business use - this narrows my perspective for sure. I would currently not go down the 'lesser variant' route unless they up their game - we are all different.

[jaytip]

Autocar test report.

I just read the Autocar review and they scored it 3.5/5. The only comment on the cars safety was that NCAP may mark it down because it didn’t have lane assist and autonomous emergency braking.
That’s hardly grounds to claim it doesn’t have a good safety rating.
It seems to me that possibly badge snobbery is guiding your opinion rather than actual facts. Is the car rather vanilla, yes. Is it ugly, yes, but that in itself doesn’t make it a bad car.
My last taxi was a 2019 E Class so the MG in terms of refinement is a big come down, but I’m just accepting it for what it is.

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Is the car rather vanilla, yes. Is it ugly, yes, but that in itself doesn’t make it a bad car.

It does to me - as I said, each to their own.

[Dave+63]

It does to me - as I said, each to their own.

I guess that makes most modern Rolls Royce bad cars in your book too, particularly the hideous SUV?

[Chris_in_the_UK]

I guess that makes most modern Rolls Royce bad cars in your book too, particularly the hideous SUV?

I would have neither.

Cars (to me) are a very personal thing, just like watches. Most will do the same job as the next, what you like/dislike or choose is personal choice influenced by a few things - end of.

[Peter franks]

So 1600 miles would cost you well under £100 and other than the inconvenience of charging most current EVs would be capable of that journey.


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Are these cars available to buy for less than 5k?

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[Franky Four Fingers]

Are these cars available to buy for less than 5k?

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No but then again neither is a new vehicle with an ICE

[Dave+63]

Are these cars available to buy for less than 5k?

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Not yet as they’re currently too new. Your £5k car wasn’t available for £5k when it was only a couple of years old either!

[tertius]

Not yet as they’re currently too new. Your £5k car wasn’t available for £5k when it was only a couple of years old either!

But he needed it now not in 5 or 6 years time - his point was that today an EV could not meet his needs (including the purchase price).

I find the religious fervour on this topic fascinating ... on both sides of the argument. Personally I am looking forward to the day when autonomous self driving vehicles are available on demand and I don’t need my own “every day” car instead I can just order one to turn up and take me where I want to go and then it will drive itself off to the next job - no parking hassle or anything.

I do love cars (and have two at the moment) but somehow we have change our mindset around the use of them. I acknowledge that I am as guilty of this as anyone.

[Peter franks]

The believers on this thread make me laugh you are so blinded by the light that you refuse any argument against EV .
My statement was i Currently have a large estate car that carries x4 adults plus a boatload of luggage it does what I need fairly cheaply and none of you can provide evidence to the contrary.
So please enlightened ones show me a large electric vehicle with a range of 600 miles carrying 4 adults plus luggage available to buy right now for less than 5k?
I'm not against EV but to say they are a viable alternative for most people right now is utter nonsense.

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