After the AM game Wednesday I had Liverpool favourites for today but that first half performance was the worst I’ve seen from City in several seasons. Truly shocking. Liverpool were excellent but City gave away possession far too easy.Originally Posted by ryanb741
Personally I think Pep had one eye on the Brighton game mid week and wanted De Bruyne match for for then but Mahrez should have come on much sooner.
Utterly dominant performance by Liverpool today.
Disgraceful behaviour pre-match by >some< City supporters, but every club has its idiots I guess.
Back on topic, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Man Utd and Brighton both win mid-week, such is the madness of this league.
Chelsea and Arsenal will have another chance to show how much they want to avoid the top four....
Yep.
Taking nothing away from Liverpool , City were woeful in the first half .
In fact, I don’t think we were much better after the break .
Foden Grealish and Sterling were awful .
No complaints , although Id personally prioritize the FA Cup over the £££ League
They’re both top top sides and as I’ve said before on any given day they could 5-0 each other.
KDB is city’s main player and without him it weakens the significantly.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Both teams getting caught out fannying around passing it out from the back.
Feels like Liverpool doing this every week now - Alison saving their bacon with his one on one heroics, but I think I counted him passing to a Man City player at least 4 times today just outside the box instead of just hoofing it.
Def shaky at the back but getting away with it. Guess a trait of Brazilian goal keeping!!
The "fannying around" is a tactical choice to enhance pressure in the attacking 3rd. It is done in the knowledge and with the acceptance that this incurs risk in the defensive areas of the pitch. However both City and Liverpool have such high-quality squads, the balance of risk vs reward is heavily tilted to the latter - hence the potency of their attacks. Take into account they've conceded the fewest league goals and scored the most, I'd say they are probably happy with the way they play the game.
Sent from my LE2123 using Tapatalk
As soon as I saw the teamsheets I feared this would happen.
Field a B-team
Get B-team results.
Sterling (among others) was beyond useless today. His first touch was awful … every time.
Liverpool deserved the win.
…Although I still dislike many of their players - but that’s another thread.
z
Yes for sure cant complain but doesn't half make you nervous especially with Virgil not quite the same player he was before injury.
Games coming thick and fast now - going to be a great few weeks
Disgraceful behaviour. Even on the TV the volume of the boos came across so it clearly wasn't just a handful of fans. Genuine question; is Pep too arrogant to be a true great? Doesn't play Fernandinho in CL Final when he was the player that would have potentially ran the game for them and dominated midfield. Plays a second choice GK today in a semi final and paid the price again. Bought a £100m player and constantly plays him in positions other than where he made his reputation.
Peps already a great.
Sent from my M2101K7BNY using Tapatalk
Well busy today so had to tape it. Just finished watching and what a great match. Liverpool totally deserved the win and it shouldn't of been so close. Think city looked decent in the last 4 mins extra time. That volley from mane was something else.
When has Sterlings first touch ever been good never mind today?
Still confident to stand by that?
It's all up for grabs as far as I am concerned. Arsenal should have comfortably secured the top 4 spot, but clearly this is not happening.
He’s played Zeffen in every round of FA Cup bar one this season and stood by him. Zeffen is a decent keeper and he got done by Liverpool’s high press. After the Mane goal his nerves were shot.
As for Grealish, he was top dog at Villa, given free reign to do what he wants. At City he’s one of many talented players part of a system that he’s getting used to and there’s no doubt he’s not delivered what many people felt he should have but he will improve under Pep….. almost everyone does.
You look at Salah and Mane and City don’t have anyone that clinical in front of goal and that’s what makes the difference at this level. I’ve seen every City game this season and we’ve created so many chances that, with a quality finisher, would possibly have us out of sight in the league.
Completely .
United are beyond useless and they definitely 100 % will not get a result at Anfield on Tuesday.
No sirree , no chance . Because they are rubbish .
Still Spurs for me for 4 th .
You know you have just set it up for a 1-2 United victory with that.
I can’t speak personally as I didn’t go today.
My BIL went with his kids and was adamant that there were no announcements about the minutes silence and/ or the tribute in City’s end.
Pep was a true great before he came to City and has only enhanced that reputation since.
Let’s face it , you’d kill to have him at Newcastle .
Controversial question regarding Pep. I would agree with thegoat in that Pep was already a great manager before he even step foot into Man City. His Barcelona team played some of the best football I have ever seen and his City team are not too bad either, he has done well pretty much everywhere.
Can some of his decisions come across arrogant, most definitely yes, however most times its those arrogant decisions that pay off and make him the great he is.
Klopp > Guardiola
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think it's very subjective but what I've seen is both Klopp and Guardiola make their players better. They learn from those managers and become superior all round players. People ask would Guardiola or Klopp be successful if they went somewhere like Arsenal with a much lower budget? I think the answer is a clear 'yes'. They'd both take the current Arsenal squad and get it Top 4 I'm quite sure.
Klopp tends to have success on a tactical and system platform whereas Guardiola works with players over time to make them more rounded, technical players - and time is important as Iniesta/Xavi didn't become amazing overnight they took time to learn that system and I suspect the same will happen with Grealish
Ryan, Klopp have spent 30m less a season over the last 5 years compared to Arsenal.
Arsenal are the 3rd biggest spenders in the league I’ve the last 5 years.
Liverpool for comparison are 12th.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
OK
Well there you go. I recall when Klopp was on his hiatus from Dortmund Arsenal seemed the no brainer destination, similar philosophy etc. But we stuck it out with Wenger another season and he went to Liverpool. The rest is history.
It's always easier Ryanb741 to look back and know it was the wrong thing to do with the benefit of hindsight.
At the time sticking with Wenger would have been the most logical thing to do no?
Especially given the unimaginable success he had brought to the club. His Arsenal teams are one of the best I have ever had the privilege of watching.
Bumping into the double winning squad at Watford Junction train station in 1998 when they were catching the train up to play Liverpool was an excellent surprise and kind of endeared me more to Arsenal and I have always had a soft spot for them ever since.
All the players were super friendly and accommodating for my awe stricken requests for autographs, all except Anelka who could easily be forgiven give he was so young.
Ian Wright was the highlight of course as was the great Wenger himself, who quite surreally sat on the seats in the station right next to Pat Rice in exactly the same way as they would do at matches.
If only there was some way of measuring managerial success. Trophies won, for example.
And there you go again spouting off your bloody common sense approach .
Don’t you know Klopp finds players on Sunday League pitches whilst Fraudiola simply throws billions of quids on every player he buys until a shinier one comes along .
Not quite in this case as Guardiola inherited a team that had already won the PL twice in its very recent history. He also inherited a Bayern side where a chimp in a tracksuit would have led them to the Bundesliga title. Klopp took Liverpool from nowhere.
For what it's worth I think they are both amazing and I'd slightly lean towards Guardiola being the better coach only because he has experience of coaching the greatest club side of all time in the form of that amazing Barca side. What he must have learned there and could potentially impart on players is maybe slightly more than the heavy metal approach of Klopp.
But I think Klopp would quickly get a mediocre side to do well - stick him at Man Utd for example and they'd get top 4 (but they already had Mourinho who got them 2nd but didn't like it because somehow they thought they should be playing as well as Man City despite having a massively inferior squad).
Liverpool should have won the league under Brendan Rodgers in 2013/14 but Manchester City scraped it - one of the 2 PLs you mention, the other being earlier 2011/12. Guardiola joined Manchester City for season 2016/7 so was hardly taking over a run of dominance like Manchester United enjoyed in the 1990s or Liverpool in the 1970s.
Liverpool are a great side and Klopp is a great manager but I'm always baffled at the constant attempt to portray them as plucky impoverished underdogs. Their recent success is based largely on the c£190m spent on Van Dyke, Alison and Salah. Depending which year and which stats you look at, Liverpool's wage bill is 3rd or 4th highest in the league - way above Spurs and Arsenal, for example. As I say, good luck to them but money spent is a major factor in success on the pitch and it's been that way for a long time.
Last edited by David_D; 17th April 2022 at 12:36.
Probably the easiest jobs in football to rack up trophies are Barca, Munich and City.
City have spent 1 billion pounds since pep joined.
1 billion.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Net ;
We have spent I think 18.5m a season under Klopp in the last 5 years. That’s 7th in the prem.
City have spent 101m a season in the last 5 years.
City have spent 400m more in that period and Liverpool are neck and neck with them.
I know who the better manager is for me.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Liverpool have spent £600m under Klopp.
600m.
I would love to have him obviously. I’m not disputing his ability or trophy haul, I just can’t work out why he makes these decisions that appear to be to the detriment of City. I firmly believe that they’d have won the CL had he played Fernandinho that night. Grealish clearly isn’t a left sided player. You play your best possible team in a semi final and final.
Liverpool have a larger squad than City. If the view is that the strength of depth is better at City then surely that’s a reflection on who Liverpool have bought. I don’t buy that view. Liverpool had Jiota Henderson and Firminho on the bench.
Pep inherited the oldest squad in PL which needed massive overhaul. Klopp has always prioritised PL and CL hence lack of success in Cup competitions. Pep wants to win every trophy. But both have bought very well with the odd exception aside.
All this tribalism is stupid. Even the best teams lose. We have two very different managers who have each made every player in their squad better and taken their respective clubs to new levels on the pitch and we should just enjoy it whilst it lasts.
No that’s incorrect they have spent 549m gross under Klopp.
He’s bought 43 players for 549m.
He’s sold 44 players for 417m.
He’s spent net 132m since he took charge.
18.5m a season net spend over 7 seasons.
He’s upgraded our whole squad significantly by spending 132m.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
For me the acid test for Klopp will be when it comes time to rebuild that Liverpool team, he’s built an incredible team which has peaked perfectly over the past 3/4 years and if he can rinse and repeat when it comes to replace key players across the team he will cement his place as a truly top tier manager.
Being able todo that is what made fergie so great and as the current United team show it’s more than just money needed to do it.
My figure was some random site Google brought up. I have no idea.
FWIW, I think Klopp’s signings have, on average, been better and better value.
I don’t know if agent’s fees are included when transfer fees are quoted.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/footb...s-man-utd/amp/
If Liverpool win the quadruple, would it be fair to class them as the greatest English club side ever? Or would Man Utd's longevity under SAF still trump it?
Thoughts?
For me even without the quadruple it's a coin toss between the two clubs, for the title of greatest English club side ever.
I think with the very unlikely quadruple added to the honours list, it's not even a question to be asked anymore.
The Man City side that won the title with over 100 points or the Arsenal team that won the league without losing a single match are the 2 greatest English Club sides ever. In fact that Liverpool team that finished 2nd to City that year but won the CL was IMHO better than today's Liverpool side.
Re the Arsenal invincibles team, if we say Mane, Salah and Firmino are the attacking jewels for the current Liverpool side then I can't see any of them getting in a team that has Henry, Bergkamp and Pires up front as alternative options. Likewise who from the current Liverpool side gets in a side ahead of Vieira, Ashley Cole etc? People forget how amazing that Arsenal side was. Likewise people seem to forget how incredible peak Aguero, David Silva etc were for City
Last edited by ryanb741; 17th April 2022 at 16:19.
Toon!
F.T.F.A.
Nah, nah nah nana nana, nana nana, Geordies
Toon!
Not in a million years is that true. Not even close to SAF's Man Utd or the current Liverpool who have won the League and CL....twice!
Well not quite yet but hopefully
The current Liverpool side isn't yet the best current PL team and as for the current Anfield side vs Arsenal's invincibles not a chance come on! I'm biased as an Arsenal fan but being impartial how many of the current Liverpool team get into that Arsenal side? Of course hard to compare like for like as football has changed and its a lot more tactical today but its very easy to apply hyperbole to today's football and forget the past. I genuinely believe the Liverpool side of 2 years ago was better than the current side - Van Dijk was playing better a couple of years ago for a start.
But that Arsenal invincibles had the absolute greatest footballer ever to play in the Premier League and some others that also would get in a top 20 list. None of the current Liverpool front 3 would IMHO get into a top 10 of all time PL forwards (maybe Salah gets close but he's not near the standard of Henry, Shearer, Aguero, Suarez, Van Persie, Kane, Rooney, Van Nistelrooy, Le Tissier, Bergkamp, Drogba etc. IMHO both Kane and Son are better current PL strikers)
Agreed Man Utd had some great teams also - a team with peak Scholes, Giggs, Ronaldo and Rooney is very handy indeed.
Last edited by ryanb741; 17th April 2022 at 17:20.
Maybe not the best Liverpool side as they didn't win the league but that final year with Suarez was prob the most exciting Liverpool team I ever saw over the last 30 Years - he was some player when he wasn't in trouble doing stupid things.
They do appear to be planning but the proof will lie in if those players make sure they are as competitive once the current stars fall away / move on.
Also will be interesting to see how deep the owners pockets are if they can’t offset the outlay by selling a couple current crop for outsized transfer fees ( pretty much how they offset the majority of the current squad cost )
Rangers were magnificent today, 120 minutes Thursday night and another 120 today, played Celtic off the park.
Great result for Rangers, and Chelsea also managed to find something (once again, incredible under the circumstances). Shame for Palace and their fans but just not quite good enough.
Sent from my M2101K7BNY using Tapatalk
Would have been nice for Patrick Vieira to have got his Palace team into the final, but credit to Chelsea for winning despite working under exceptionally uncertain conditions currently.
Breaking the 100 points may never be seen again, the invincible team drew a third of the games though iirc, so sounds better than it really was in my opinion.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
