Paisley is statistically the best manager in terms of what he won.
3 European titles in 9 years and 14 trophies in total.
BUT he took over from Shankley who had laid the foundations.
Ferguson career was fantastic BUT United were already a big club and could always spend big.
It’s really difficult to ever pic “ the best “ manager but I’ve no issue with the majority picking Ferguson.
Pep for me needs to go to a sleeping giant and see what he can do.
As someone’s said above the Barca side contained the best player of all time for his whole reign and then Bayern is possibly the easiest job in football. City he’s already had a top squad then spent over a billion.
Pep can’t be mentioned in the same breath as the likes of Ferguson until he dominates in Europe or takes on a task.
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Ferguson deserves it no contest if you add his Aberdeen career. Broke the Old Firm stranglehold domestically and won the Cup Winners’ Cup knocking out Bayern Munich and beating Real Madrid in the final. The last time RM lost a European final, I believe.Originally Posted by Ivan Drago
So, does Salah need to bang in 30 for Burnley in a season to be deemed world class? Does Allison need to keep 20 clean sheets at Stoke for the same accolade ?
I know it’s tantamount to treason on The Kop to bestow any kind of praise onto Guardiola , but even in your mind altered state you must begrudgingly admit that he is the single most reason as to why Liverpool haven’t been more successful recently. Try it, it’s cathartic .
You say Pep can’t be talked about in the same breath as Ferguson ? The same Pep that came up against Ferguson in two Champs League Finals , right ?
Guardiola has done more than anyone to completely change the way football is played in this country. His methods are copied by managers at all levels up and down the land .
The single most reason why Liverpool haven’t won more league titles recently is because city have spent 1 billion pound under pep.
They have the most expensive squad ever assembled in the history of the game.
You’re absolutely insane if you think Guardiola is anywhere near SAF.
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I suspect that Ferguson’s spend in current value terms would be eye-watering.
It’s reported that Manchester United have spent more than £1bn since Ferguson left and not a huge amount to show for it.
https://www.skysports.com/football/n...odcast-special
Klopp has spent somewhere £500-650m (depending which source you read).
In £ spent per trophy, Guardiola is definitely delivering more currently.
Pep is very near AF.
Youre daft to think anything else.
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I remember when Morinho and Benitez were riding high and look at them now, never managed to keep pace with an ever changing game. Ferguson was on the top of his game for 30 years and retired with a league title, whether Guardiola does that remains to be seen.
Insane it is then .
You’re right , Pep is nothing like Ferguson .
His legacy he left at United still stinks the place out .
City’s squad might be the most expensive ever assembled. It’s also the most valuable .
BTW, your shower are the fourth highest spenders in the PL and have one league win to show for it . You love to bang on about City’s wealth instead of wondering what is happening to all the money at your place .
Blackburnpool indeed .
https://www.givemesport.com/1817108-...premier-league
Last edited by thegoat; 24th January 2022 at 05:57.
Liverpool have sold to buy. Our net spend in the 5 years under Klopp is 18m per season.
City’s net spend in that duration is 100m per season.
City had already won the league and had a great squad then pep has added a billion pounds worth of signings.
It’s not rocket science this lads come on.
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Just checked SAF spent 703m in 27 years with an average signing of 7m according to transfer market.con
Sky have it as 546m spent ?
With a net spend of 226m in 27 years.
Obviously those figures would have to be adjusted for inflation etc.
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How is it shambolic?
I agree Pep is a top manager, but he has had it easy with the clubs (squads) he inherited and the money he has had to spend.
It really is pointless having sensible football discussions with the majority of Liverpool fans. Their team are the chosen ones.
My brother in law and his family are all Reds and you're absolutely spot on. It's infuriating to say the least. Best club, best people, best fans, best city blah blah blah. They all need a bit of self-awareness training.
best fans...
Haha I’m praising SAF here and saying he’s the best manager, I’m hardly a Liverpool nut job fan.
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What tosh is being spouted here. You comparing spending in different eras etc. SAF and united always blew the transfer market.
Pep will go down in history as a great great manager. The bottom line is that he has changed football in this country and his teams are consistent and have made 98 and 100 points. That has been a fundamental change and united were never that consistent and Pep had moved the game on
If supporters of any team cannot see that then they are blinded by tribal nonsense.
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I know!!
best fans...
Again, why the fixation with the spending ? Utd have spent similar and are nowhere near City or Liverpool .
Where is all your money going ?
We’ve had this before . Pep inherited an ageing squad . He doesn’t but baubles , he buys well , mostly . He makes every player better, no doubt .
The difference between City and Liverpool fans is enormous. We , grudgingly , will admit that Salah is a great player , VVD is one of the best centre halves ever and your fullbacks are excellent . You lot will never give praise and it’s all about the money . It’s hilarious how little self awareness you have .
You’re just making things up now. Liverpool fans will never praise ? You’re squad is the best squad in world football. Any team would want KDB, Dias, Ederson etc.
Your bench would arguably start for every team in the prem.
Pep inherited a squad that had already won the league under the last two managers and then spent a billion quid on it.
Let’s not even get started on the FFP that has been cheated by City.
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I was referring to the “assets” available and net spend is irrelevant for that purpose. The other key “metric” is player salary bill and, depending which source and which period you look at, Liverpool are second or third highest in the Premier League with Manchester City and then Manchester United top.
Just a bit of light hearted fun!best fans...
Cheers,
Neil.
You failed FFP twice and you know it . Your phantom stadium in Stanley Park was smoke and mirrors . The second time you didn’t qualify for Europe so you didn’t have to face the consequences.
We were cleared at CAS . I’m sure you remember it , you were probably celebrating your extra PL titles if we were stripped .
Talking of cheating , shall we talk about your false positives / negatives / positives ? The EPL recommended test centre wasn’t good enough for the mighty reds , they had to choose their own . And who is one of the directors of said testing centre ? King Kennys daughter !!! You couldn’t make it up . There was a clamour to investigate. Turned down by the chairman of the PL, one Rick Parry who used to be on the board at errrrrrm Liverpool .
And you have the audacity to call City cheats .
Liars
Damb. This turning into the Sales corner catastrophe
There are never any winners in a football argument
My personal opinion is Pep and Man City have been an absolute success. Great team with a great manager
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Let’s be honest, City are a plastic club with plastic supporters that never fill their stadium. If we ever got into a position where each club could sell their own TV rights, City would be well down the table. Sad but true, those owners could have bought any club and done the same thing. Fake club
Good summary there, but you forgot that LFC were also caught hacking into City's transfer database a few years ago and ended up settling and giving us £1M as a settlement. Oops! also nearly forgot the furlough fiasco. Embarrassed about nothing... Offended by everything. When some speak about LFC having the moral high ground they need to tot a number of these issues up and say that with a straight face.
I've lived in Liverpool for the past 19 years and used to have good discussions with most reds. Still do if I am honest with most. However, some have become rabid, blinkered, crackpots, who constantly harp on about FFP breaches, but have never read the whole judgement. What I am finding is that quite a few are questioning where the money is going at LFC and beginning to moan about a lack of spending and strengthening. That will gather momentum soon.....
I was speaking to a fella at the weekend and he was waffling on about how we always buy ready made superstars. When I asked him had he heard of Edderson, Cancelo, Dias, Zinchenko, Silva, Rodri, Jesus, Laporte, Fernandinho, before they came to City he had to admit that he hadn't. This is the same fella that told me we were signing a dud / Chelsea reject when we bought KDB and we were having our pants pulled down for paying more than £5M. He often talks about City having the biggest squad. A myth spoken by many. We actually have the smallest squad, but it has quality.
We usually debate history and apparently we have none.... However, City won their first trophy four years before United. 26 years before Arsenal and 51 years before Chelsea. They won the FA cup 61 years before Liverpool and were the first English club to win a domestic and European trophy in the same season. Not bad for a little club with no history.
I am in my 53rd year of going to City. Through thick and thin, and most of it has been thin. What I can say with a degree of certainty is it's bloody brilliant. Its a privilege to watch this team and it's a privilege to have this manager. I watch football in a different way since he came in. If City were back in the 2nd division, I would also be there like me and 35,000 were when they were down amongst the dead men. I am not sure that many clubs would have that.
Awwww, you OK ?
You start your waffle with “Let’s be honest” and then proceed to witter absolute drivel showing your complete lack of knowledge of anything football related .
Amazing .
You’d make a great Liverpool fanboy
YNWA
So remind me how many empty seats per game on average?
Second highest attendance of 84k+ at Maine Road. First FA Cup win 1904, first 1st division title 1937……. Plastic club my arse.
Before you spout such stuff read up on what Mansour has done for the local area as well the business structure he’s built with the stable of clubs around the world to generate a bigger fan base, a business model thought of by Txiki Begiristain whilst at Barcelona but turned down by them because of the ownership structure.
Show me a single fan of a PL club, if you can set aside tribal loyalty, who didn’t wish their own billionaire owner (are there any PL clubs not owned by billionaires) brought the success to their club that Mansour has to City.
Though we should point out that Liverpool outspent United in the 90's. I remember Fergie having murders before he single handedly restructured the club. It was a mess.
I think he wins on longevity alone.
Pep's threatening to retire every other year, the man is constantly on the edge of losing his marbles.
Tell you what
You tell us as you seem to know so much . Then I’ll prove to you that you’re talking through your backside .
There’s not a single club that sells out every seat for every game despite what you might pretend to know .
You’re fighting against the tide here. Not one person that’s in the game at that level agrees with you. They all appreciate what he’s all about.
He not just landed on his feet. He could have crashed and burned taking over Barcelona, the same opportunity Giggs has at United. He inherited a team that was in turmoil, a team that had Stars that had been there done it, like Zlatan, Ronaldinho, Deco these players were great player however all individual and clearly taking Barcelona in the wrong direction. The job he did at Barca was over looked. Yes he had Messi however a young Messi who showed signs of brilliance but no where near the finished article.
If it was what that easy taking over a club with riches and a team that’s just won the premier league, why did Moyes crash and burn at Utd and every manager since.
Pep is unique, a genius, a man that’s passionately consistent and the footballing world has changed because of him. He’s head and shoulders above anyone else in management terms. He’s one of the greatest managers to manage an English club. Enjoy his football because he won’t be here forever and as soon as he’s gone from the English game he’ll be sadly missed.
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City have the best historical and modern day support, unsurpassed in many ways :
- highest domestic home att 84,569 only passed by Spurs who played as league match at Wembley (not their own stadium)
- highest away following 25,000 at Newcastle
- highest average att. 1st time Prem winners........ 2012
- best supported in the land from 2nd tier
- 38k is a decent crowd for the shooting fish in a barrel CL snorefest group stage and comparable with the 38-40k that Barca, Athletico n Chelsea drew.
Let's not forget utds 19k for G Nevilles' debut in Europe &
Liverpool's mightly 12k & 14k crowds in the European Cup - in their pomp!
-Liverpool haven't had a crowd within 20k of City's highest
Wolves v Grimsby is the record crowd at old trafford
-City were the better supported than utd for the first 55 yrs, even when utd won the league, utd only best supported in the land for the 1st time in the late 50s
- So City have had consistently good support throughout the ages, never being the 25th or 33 rd best supported like our neighbours whose lowest league crowd is lower too
Of course City are not the most successful and so are not the best supported online, where a photoshopped image or a lie if told often enough becomes the narrative.
In the real world, those who know, know.
True support was trapesing up and down the country when we couldn't buy a win for 18 months, not turning up to shoot fish in a barrel!
Plastic club, do some research
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Last edited by Kippax; 25th January 2022 at 08:17.
Massive LOL. Why do you get drawn in, ignore it.
Liverpool sells out every game and has done for about the last 15 years.
It’s impossible to get a ticket from the club you’ve got to rely on someone not being able to go on their season ticket and getting to go that way.
The new main stand is basically just full of cockneys, Irish and day trippers now. That’s the price you pay for being a global club I suppose but I don’t really like it.
I’d prefer 30,000 scousers in there rather than 60 ,000 southern, Irish and scandi’s. You lose something without the home fans filling the stadium.
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Liar
https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/ann...community-work
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Tottenham's attendance that narrowly beat your 84,569 was at Wembley but was not a domestic game - it was against Bayer Leverkeusen in the Champions' League. They have a couple of domestic attendances at Wembley that were above 80,000 but second place highest domestic league game was at Stamford Bridge in 1935 when Chelsea hosted Arsenal (82,905).
Number of tickets sold may not be equal to the number of people that go though the turnstiles. City 12th in this list from '21 but stats are only from a few matches.
https://www.givemesport.com/1754629-...en-this-season
And another after a few more games.
https://www.givemesport.com/1787618-...en-this-season
Last edited by SlipperySam; 25th January 2022 at 14:05.
Ha I don’t think you understand how it works, Liverpool sells out. Every ticket is sold for a league game.
The actual attendance is for the people who physically pass through the turnstile.
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Lots of boring stat arguments there.
However if we are still talking about the greatest club manager, I would say Brian Clough.
His achievements were with unfashionable clubs and without a huge transfer war chest.
Won the league with Derby County (!) and back to back European cups with Forest.
It was only his manner and lack of respect for authority that stopped him being offered the England job IMO.
Cheers,
Neil.
I’ll have a wager with you the goat….. try and obtain a Liverpool ticket in the next month for any Liverpool home game directly from the club.
It’s genuinely impossible.
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West Ham don't have billionaire owners, English as well.
We do have a new Czech director Daniel Kretzinsky but he only has a minority stake.
I remember when David Gold was asked for more transfer money to build up the team like Man City he said, " If you own 150 oil wells it's no problem but if you own 150 Ann Summers shops.........
That said our most expensive signing Sebastian Haller was a washout whereas Jarrod Bowen from Hull is a player like Declan Rice (thrown out by Chelsea) that everyone is after now.
You can't always buy a great team.
Cheers,
Neil.
Of course I know how it works , I was highlighting the fixation with City’s empty seats . It happens everywhere .
Going to your tourist infested fake atmosphere hole once a year is more than enough thanks , I’ll pass on your bet .
Then LFC supporter are dafter than I thought.
- Sold out games
- In demand tickets.
Yet 1200 seats are empty ?
z
Yes Zelig,
The stadium capacity is 53k. Every single available home ticket is sold every week at Liverpool.
You physically cannot get a ticket from the club for a game.
From the article posted by ‘ the goat ‘ it even states the ground is sold out every game, all tickets are sold.
Of the 1200 seats you’ll have people who on the day cannot make it. corporate numbers that don’t turn up, sponsorship seats that don’t turn up. Away fans that dont turn up.
The goat just went searching for a headline without reading the actual article.
Anfield is sold out every week and it is impossible to get a ticket via the club, if anyone wants to try I’ll happily pay for their ticket if they can show proof.
As for season tickets that’s even worse. My son has been on the waiting list for 14 years !
For context I’ve just been on the city website and I can buy 6 tickets for the home game against Brentford.
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Last edited by Ivan Drago; 25th January 2022 at 17:17.
Pleased with the direction Watford have gone by hiring Hodgson and only to the end of the season. People will make jokes about managerial sackings but we've finally made a sensible appointment - which has usually been the problem (so the sackings have been correct).
What we now need is 6 months to plan - properly - for the long term. Persuade a project manager (a Lampard, a Marsch, a Solskjaer) that we can and will be patient with them almost no matter what happens over the next 2 seasons and that they will be given time. And then, crucially, stick to it. The owners' reputation now, rightly, precedes them. It puts us on the back foot when it comes to managerial recruitment because anyone semi-proven won't take it. It leaves us with the "old-guard" who thought their careers were over (Pearson, Ranieri, Hodgson) or gambles (Xisco, Gracia, Ivic, Flores, Jokanovic, Sannino), only some of which will work. To attract attractive coaches we need to become attractive. To do that we have to be patient with someone - not jump at the first sign of trouble. Maybe Hodgson, with his contacts and nous, can persuade the owners of that and help attract the right person.
I know it's left field and it'll never happen, but I'd have Emma Hayes in a hearbeat. She, though, is exactly the sort of person who wouldn't take it because the almost guarantee of being sacked after just 3/4 months makes it too much of a risk to make that particular jump into men's football.
Plus they give them away for virtually nothing for some games. Cannot even buy support….
And they give you free food and drink and flights to Abu Dhabi .
This can’t be an adult
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Fergie is the GOAT and Wenger completely changed the game here. But when he is done Guardiola will be considered in equal company with those giants for raising the overall bar of the Premier League - a main reason the Prem teams are bossing the Champions League is because competing with City has forced them to become better
Just to be clear I think it’s genuinely ridiculous you cannot get a ticket to see Liverpool and I’d much prefer being able to go on the website like you can at city and get tickets.
As City’s global fan base increases it will go the same way as Liverpool and the local fan base will then be in a battle to see their local team.
It’s the price you pay for being a ‘ global ‘ club but the ‘ local ‘ fans really do lose out. I genuinely hate the situation and hate going the game and seeing people recording the game on IPads and playing on their phones.
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