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Thread: IWC, Zenith V Rolex Dismal supply

  1. #1
    Master
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    IWC, Zenith V Rolex Dismal supply

    Itís clearly obvious that IWC and Zenith must be looking at the dismal supply of Rolex sports watches and thinking this is our time to capitalise on the current market.
    Both have introduced magnificent watches at cost effective prices compared to a comparable Daytona, as an example.
    Hope this trend continues and people rethink on what you can have on your wrist today, versus listening to all the BS about you will have to wait 5 to 10 years to be considered.
    Just my thoughts.

  2. #2
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    Yes, taking a good hard look at IWC

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by geoffcotton View Post
    Itís clearly obvious that IWC and Zenith must be looking at the dismal supply of Rolex sports watches and thinking this is our time to capitalise on the current market.
    Both have introduced magnificent watches at cost effective prices compared to a comparable Daytona, as an example.
    Hope this trend continues and people rethink on what you can have on your wrist today, versus listening to all the BS about you will have to wait 5 to 10 years to be considered.
    Just my thoughts.
    Better watches, too, imho. See also Omega. Just my opinion. But people want "Rolex" and the fewer they make the more people want 'em. <shrug>

  4. #4
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    Commodity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rev-O View Post
    Better watches, too, imho. See also Omega. Just my opinion. But people want "Rolex" and the fewer they make the more people want 'em. <shrug>

    Unfortunately with Rolex and Patek seen mainly as a commodity in the market, with more and more people seeking them out to get on the money making flipper train, the rest of the market is relying on enthusiasts. Rolex are certainly not making fewer watches but with ADís slipping the in demand money makers out the back door to the known flippers and secondary dealers, who are in turn buying up the ADís redundant stock of non moving Iwc, Zeniths etc, the situation of availability in store windows of Rolex etc will not change in the foreseeable.

    Mark Worthington jewellers is a secondary market dealer but if you look at their constant supply of brand new unworn Rolex, all of course nicely marked up, you would think they have a direct link to Rolex itself, as the supply never stops and this is probably replicated all over the world at this moment. There are probably more steel Rolex sitting in the secondary market dealers windows than there is on the Rolex factory floor.

  5. #5
    Master jukeboxs's Avatar
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    No need to limit it to IWC or Zenith, I'd have thought. That said, I look forward to see your Incoming threads in the not-too-distant future.

  6. #6
    Master Saxon007's Avatar
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    The IWC Mark XVIII and Spitfire models are very handsome. Sadly, they don't seem to make either one without the date function.

  7. #7
    Master
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    It beats me why no one bought that Zenith Tipo in sales corner or for that matter why you would sell one (unless short of cash).

  8. #8
    Master jukeboxs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwest76 View Post
    It beats me why no one bought that Zenith Tipo in sales corner ...
    Yet you didn't buy it.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jukeboxs View Post
    Yet you didn't buy it.
    Think he already had or has one from previous thread a couple of years back.
    Cracking watch but wears quite big.
    I tried one and swithered a bit but just too big like most modern IWC's too.
    The new Zenith Chrono looks every bit as good as the Daytona and should do well.
    Good to see them back on form and must get a de Luca one day.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jukeboxs View Post
    Yet you didn't buy it.
    I thought about it as a spare, I already have one.

    Itís not to big itís perfect.

  11. #11
    Craftsman r.dawson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geoffcotton View Post
    Itís clearly obvious that IWC and Zenith must be looking at the dismal supply of Rolex sports watches and thinking this is our time to capitalise on the current market.
    Both have introduced magnificent watches at cost effective prices compared to a comparable Daytona, as an example.
    Hope this trend continues and people rethink on what you can have on your wrist today, versus listening to all the BS about you will have to wait 5 to 10 years to be considered.
    Just my thoughts.
    It depends on what you are after I suppose.

    I was in a Rolex AD yesterday and I was told I would need a purchase history of an item (they did jewelry as well as asked me to think about them for birthdays and Christmas) and they wouldn't be able to offer me the watch I wanted as my first Rolex from them. I've not got the cash to play those sorts of games so it won't be happening but what would be my alternative from zenith or IWC?

    I was after a GMT function and zenith don't do one (as far as I can see) and the IWC is about £4k more expensive.

    There's other brands but that's what I wanted so nothing is appealing at the moment.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwest76 View Post
    It beats me why no one bought that Zenith Tipo in sales corner or for that matter why you would sell one (unless short of cash).
    The Tipo reissue lug to lug is quite big and it doesn't "wear" that small either - I'd have one already if it was a couple of mm smaller.

  13. #13
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    The current situation on Rolex supply is no different from what it was a few years ago when Rolex over supplied. Customers would walk into an AD and demand a discount and threaten to go to a grey dealer who were offering massive discounts as a matter of course. It was truly a buyers marker and the Rolex brand was going down the toilet.

    Today Rolex have corrected the position by reducing supply and now customers have to grovel for a new Rolex from an AD or pay a lot more from a grey dealer who almost certainly wheel and deal from the ADs. This is tough on someone who wants a brand new Rolex but good news for existing Rolex owners who see their watches go up in value and also good news for the ADs and the greys who have a nice little flourishing industry on their hands.

    Rolex have realised that reducing supply is upping their brand and that is good for their future prospects so it is going to continue.

    As regards to the OPs question about IWC and Zenith sitting on the sidelines ready to pounce in on Rolex "dismal supply", I just cannot see it happening.

    People who buy the high end of mechanical watches have a good disposable income and tend to be relatively shrewd in their approach. Why buy an IWC or Zenith whose value will almost certainly go down when for a bit extra you can buy a Rolex or a PP whose value is certain to increase over the years. These people would regard buying an IWC or a Zenith as a bit of a mugs game in the current climate.

    Fanatical WISs will buy a new IWC or Zenith but they are relatively rare.

    Mechanical watches are totally irrational, unnecessary and expensive and only attract the attention of a small number of enthusiasts. The skint ones will buy at the low end of the market but the monied ones will continue to concentrate on Rolex and PP that have stood the test of time.

    Also the practice of Rolex and other major players such as Omega who now refuse to supply parts to non approved repairers is going to keep the value up and thus reduce the market to those who rightly or wrongly are prepared to splash the cash.

    New times and hence a new MO for all of us.

  14. #14
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    No need to ‘grovel’ for a mass-produced Rolex; there are thousands of them all over the place, so much over-supply that grey dealers actually turn them away (it’s true) . So, if you want, pay the price, but then forget the whole thing. Who would want to care about such trivia. There must be loads of buyers, like me, who ceased caring. You wear a watch, that’s the end of the whole stuff. It’s just another watch, one of many, many, thousands. Get it serviced, forget Rolex, prices, all the rest of the tedious stories. You’ll feel free. That’s a good feeling. Always, it’s just a watch.
    Strange to say, but I know I will never buy, or sell, another Rolex.…... Let our hobby become just about money, and you ruin everything.
    Last edited by paskinner; 31st July 2021 at 09:52.

  15. #15
    The issue with other brands like Zenith and IWC is their very ​strong pricing while curbing discounts. So yes they may be available, but at 20-30% overpriced (IMO) I ain't buying.

  16. #16
    Craftsman Halitosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    Today Rolex have corrected the position by reducing supply
    Sorry but that is nonsense. Itís widely reported that Rolex are churning out more watches than ever before

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halitosis View Post
    Sorry but that is nonsense. Itís widely reported that Rolex are churning out more watches than ever before
    Yes but not the ones that everyone wants. This is why a lot of people are moaning.

  18. #18
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    Worth remembering that. Daytona is one of the most easily buyable. Anyone, anywhere, can buy one, latest version and finish. If you are ready to pay, that’s it. All over. A few minutes on line. There are many thousands of them, and have been for years. Hardly ‘rare’….but expensive, yes. Though, given price rises, they are not expensive either. Hence the popularity.
    ‘I suppose the comic bit is Daytona is one of the easiest watches to buy, available everywhere, in minutes. Easier to buy than many rivals.
    P
    Last edited by paskinner; 31st July 2021 at 11:20.

  19. #19
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    IWC, Zenith V Rolex Dismal supply

    Itís a retail masterclass from Rolex, works well for them and the dealers. Sadly some of the dealers let them down. Iím lucky as I have used an excellent family AD for years and recently found another not too far from my new home who helped me out.

    Some of the used prices are madness, same for patek and AP. Vacheron are looking like more and more of a bargain these days.


    Zenith make some great watches, love panda dials and the tipo. Omega quality has certainly ramped up and they have the metas movements, word is they are clamping down on discounts from dealers too.
    Last edited by Middo; 31st July 2021 at 11:37.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scepticalist View Post
    The Tipo reissue lug to lug is quite big and it doesn't "wear" that small either - I'd have one already if it was a couple of mm smaller.
    It does not hang over my average size wrist and is without doubt one of the most comfortable watches I own.

    I just put it on now,a quick wind,set the time and ready to go in 2 minutes.

    100m wr,easy read dial,stopwatch and bezel,but best of all it just looks so good.

    I would not swap it for a Daytona,fact.

  21. #21
    Master
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    "People who buy the high end of mechanical watches have a good disposable income and tend to be relatively shrewd in their approach. Why buy an IWC or Zenith whose value will almost certainly go down when for a bit extra you can buy a Rolex or a PP whose value is certain to increase over the years. These people would regard buying an IWC or a Zenith as a bit of a mugs game in the current climate".


    I dont have a high disposble income,I bought IWC and Zenith because I like the watch.
    The Zenith was on easy interest free credit which I only have 4 payments to make,it hasnt been a struggle paying it off.

    I dont like the Rolex design nor snobbery or fawning that goes with owning one.
    Not everyone sees it as prestigeous owning one.

    I can not be the only one who buys what he likes with no regard to resell value/making a profit,why buy it if you only want to sell it?
    If they are so rich why would they buy with an eye to making a profit anyway?






    "Fanatical WISs will buy a new IWC or Zenith but they are relatively rare".


    I am not fanatical just like what I like.

  22. #22
    Master W124's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyp View Post
    The issue with other brands like Zenith and IWC is their very ​strong pricing while curbing discounts. So yes they may be available, but at 20-30% overpriced (IMO) I ain't buying.
    Having picked up both a Zenith EP 3600 and an IWC 5001 black dial from SC some years ago at great prices, I can state that wearing either one gives me significantly more satisfaction than strapping on an anodyne Rolex Sub or GMT.

    Prior to lock-down, I worked around the UK. Each week I would spot several steel Rolex on the wrist of the young wannabes - always worn loose to maximise the perceived value.

    The 5001 or EP are perfect pieces for work or evening wear, and are great conversation starters with someone who knows a little about horology, rather than the latest 'hot' Rolex.

    Bought wisely after the initial owner has taken the hit, both brands could be said to represent the thinking man's choice of wristwatch.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    Yes but not the ones that everyone wants. This is why a lot of people are moaning.
    I disagree they are churning out just as many across the range as before but most get flipped into the trade..

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by W124 View Post
    Having picked up both a Zenith EP 3600 and an IWC 5001 black dial from SC some years ago at great prices, I can state that wearing either one gives me significantly more satisfaction than strapping on an anodyne Rolex Sub or GMT.

    Prior to lock-down, I worked around the UK. Each week I would spot several steel Rolex on the wrist of the young wannabes - always worn loose to maximise the perceived value.

    The 5001 or EP are perfect pieces for work or evening wear, and are great conversation starters with someone who knows a little about horology, rather than the latest 'hot' Rolex.

    Bought wisely after the initial owner has taken the hit, both brands could be said to represent the thinking man's choice of wristwatch.
    I donít think the post comes across as a Ďthinking manís postí, TBH.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by jukeboxs View Post
    Yet you didn't buy it.
    Quote Originally Posted by bwest76 View Post
    I thought about it as a spare, I already have one.
    Lol.

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by W124 View Post
    Having picked up both a Zenith EP 3600 and an IWC 5001 black dial from SC some years ago at great prices, I can state that wearing either one gives me significantly more satisfaction than strapping on an anodyne Rolex Sub or GMT.

    Prior to lock-down, I worked around the UK. Each week I would spot several steel Rolex on the wrist of the young wannabes - always worn loose to maximise the perceived value.

    The 5001 or EP are perfect pieces for work or evening wear, and are great conversation starters with someone who knows a little about horology, rather than the latest 'hot' Rolex.

    Bought wisely after the initial owner has taken the hit, both brands could be said to represent the thinking man's choice of wristwatch.
    You've missed my point - the whole idea is being able to buy new from an AD. Yet other brands have also jacked their prices up into very strong pricing.

  27. #27
    Master
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    I don't believe there is a supply issue on Rolex at all, it's just that many of us are not part of, the supply. You either play the game, or you don't. Once you can accept that or accept perhaps it's not for you, there is a lot of pleasure to be had via other brands and the hobby in general, both new and used including the wonderful IWC and Zenith.

    I mean, this is a thing of beauty with a gorgeous movement:

    https://www.chrono24.com.au/zenith/----id19769848.htm

    Or this:

    Last edited by stix; 31st July 2021 at 15:08.

  28. #28
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    Must admit i do agree
    Much prefer this iwc to my rolexs


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  29. #29
    Zenith and IWC make some cracking watches. No doubt about it and can give as much pleasure, if not more than other more celebrated or in-demand watches. It is not as if you only own Rolex or you own the other brands. One can enjoy them all without it being a Rolex vs other brands issue. People who couch their arguments in these terms probably miss the essence of the hobby. Or are a wee bit defensive or insecure about their choices.

    Regarding OP’s point about the current Rolex availability situation and an opportunity for Zenith/IWC to capitalise on it, I would be glad if it happens. But, somehow it doesn’t work that way. Certainly for people in the hobby it is a plus if other brands try harder to occupy the vacuum caused by Rolex.
    Last edited by RAJEN; 31st July 2021 at 18:08.

  30. #30
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    Funny enough there is an IWC pop up in Liverpool today.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post

    People who buy the high end of mechanical watches have a good disposable income and tend to be relatively shrewd in their approach.
    Neither Rolex, IWC or Zenith are the high end of Mechanical watches...

    Add to that most people with good disposable income are not shrewed with all their purchases. You could open up their waldrobe's and most of their clothing / shoes / bags are not bought with resale values. Most people still buy rolex's for the brand not because of the investment.

    Back to the OP's post Zenith is better positioned than IWC as LVMH know what they want from the brand. If any conglomerate can exploit a market it is them.

    IWC on the other hand, I can't see them gaining from the lack of supply on rolex sports models. There designs won't suit most people.

    Most will disagree but I'd take the new BVLGARI OCTO in steel now it has 100m WR over a date just.


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  32. #32
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by W124 View Post
    Having picked up both a Zenith EP 3600 and an IWC 5001 black dial from SC some years ago at great prices, I can state that wearing either one gives me significantly more satisfaction than strapping on an anodyne Rolex Sub or GMT.

    Prior to lock-down, I worked around the UK. Each week I would spot several steel Rolex on the wrist of the young wannabes - always worn loose to maximise the perceived value.

    The 5001 or EP are perfect pieces for work or evening wear, and are great conversation starters with someone who knows a little about horology, rather than the latest 'hot' Rolex.

    Bought wisely after the initial owner has taken the hit, both brands could be said to represent the thinking man's choice of wristwatch.
    No idea what a thinking man's watch is.

    Wouldn't want any watch on my wrist to be "conversation starter"

    Was the original owner who took the hit not thinking? Is it only a thinking man's watch if you got it second hand?

    Zero clue what wearing a watch loose on the wrist has to do with perceived value.

    Not even going to start on the wannabe nonsense.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flasher View Post
    Unfortunately with Rolex and Patek seen mainly as a commodity in the market, with more and more people seeking them out to get on the money making flipper train, the rest of the market is relying on enthusiasts. Rolex are certainly not making fewer watches but with ADís slipping the in demand money makers out the back door to the known flippers and secondary dealers, who are in turn buying up the ADís redundant stock of non moving Iwc, Zeniths etc, the situation of availability in store windows of Rolex etc will not change in the foreseeable.

    Mark Worthington jewellers is a secondary market dealer but if you look at their constant supply of brand new unworn Rolex, all of course nicely marked up, you would think they have a direct link to Rolex itself, as the supply never stops and this is probably replicated all over the world at this moment. There are probably more steel Rolex sitting in the secondary market dealers windows than there is on the Rolex factory floor.
    I donít see the logic in an AD risking their business model with Rolex by selling to the grey market direct, do you?
    Rolex would immediately revoke any contractual obligation with the AD.

  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Halitosis View Post
    Sorry but that is nonsense. Itís widely reported that Rolex are churning out more watches than ever before
    It takes a year to make one, apparently. Mind you, it takes me several years to hang some pictures.

  35. #35
    Craftsman jonasy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geoffcotton View Post
    I donít see the logic in an AD risking their business model with Rolex by selling to the grey market direct, do you?
    Rolex would immediately revoke any contractual obligation with the AD.
    So who supplies the grey market, the stork?

  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by jonasy View Post
    So who supplies the grey market, the stork?
    Its available from most supermarkets

  37. #37
    Master
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    So, is this a forum for people who love watches, or is this a forum of Ďmodern bankingí. Not watches, money.

  38. #38
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paskinner View Post
    So, is this a forum for people who love watches, or is this a forum of Ďmodern bankingí. Not watches, money.
    Good point,
    I've spent more on a couple of watches in the last few months than in the previous 20 years, neither of which is likely to make a profit if I was to flog them, nor were they particularly difficult to source, I imagine that for some - watches are just part of their investment portfolio.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonasy View Post
    So who supplies the grey market, the stork?
    Clearly watch flippers.

  40. #40
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by paskinner View Post
    So, is this a forum for people who love watches, or is this a forum of Ďmodern bankingí. Not watches, money.
    The simple answer is both. Both are entitled to buy them for whatever reason they wish. There is absolutely no need for one side to dislike the other. Go in peace etc.

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