Anyone know much about these?
All I can find is a post elsewhere that NSN 6645-99-737-3314 is for a Cyma Diver (Quartz). It looks similar to my old CWC G10 which I bought from Anchor Supplies aeons ago for about £60, but which seem to cost rather more now!
TT
Last edited by Tokyo Tokei; 2nd August 2021 at 14:37.
I’d stick to CWC (20 years production) or Precista (2 years).
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Last edited by BillyCasper; 27th July 2021 at 07:56.
Any particular reason out of interest? I have a couple of CYMA pieces and they seem fine, Swiss Made, ETA 955 movements, nothing to worry about really. Not a recognized brand though!Originally Posted by BillyCasper
There’s a good thread running on MWR that lists G10 production years, makers, service, quantities and serial numbers. Only CWC and Precista feature. CYMA doesn’t.
Here’s another resource: https://cwcaddict.com/f/the-g10-full-set
https://cwcaddict.com/general-service-quartz
I have some recollection of another thread on MWR about fake CYMA British military watches, but I think it related to the earlier tonneau pattern.
As Ken mentions CYMA did supply an even earlier WWW to the British army and it is one of the better ones. I had one a number of years ago. One of the larger WWW and one of the most attractive. Regret selling it (and a beautiful Longines WWW).
Cyma also supplied an ATP.
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Last edited by BillyCasper; 27th July 2021 at 08:42.
The post I found with the NSN for CYMA quartz is here https://www.thedivewatchconnection.c...=16770#p293390
(I don't want to buy a fake, but I see very few of these for sale at all, so not sure where the fakes are hiding!)
I've owned the CWC version (and the CWC RN Divers) and I'd put those pieces entirely on the same level as CYMA for general build and quality, but of course one is much better known.
Yes, I get that Japanese sellers will list stuff that they currently don’t own at twice the price someone else is listing it for. I saw that a lot when I was buying Seiko Alpinist watches from Buyee.jp. There are also a lot of altered or fake watches being listed, mid 70s Hamilton and CWC W10s etc. Some of these have been flagged up on MWR with a health warning.
They needn’t be Japanese sellers, just someone who wants to arbitrage Yahoo Auctions for the unwary international buyer who only uses eBay.
Japan is a massive domestic market, with many models here that weren’t seen in Europe, but I am not sure that it has any more or less questionable watches for sale than any other nation. That Cyma for example, is being sold by a well known reputable and nationwide chain (bricks and mortar outlets in all big towns) that sells everything, including watches. There is a similar white dial model also on YA, at time of posting attracting a single bid of ¥1. The style is reminiscent of older hand wind small-seconds Cymas.
As a dealer, the seller is licensed like all such outfits here. Which means apart from their own risk in handling questionable goods, as a seller to them (I have used them many times) I have to provide my official ID and address. It would be the last place to go to offload anything questionable.
Anyway, I have a small selection of Cymas, all are quartz and seem to be around 20-30 years old or so, fitted with ETA movements just like my old CWC quartzes (I owned the G10 and Diver, both issued) and Omega Seamaster quartz. Quality seems fine, and in the case of the G10, indistinguishable from the CWC I owned. Though like a lot of ~30 year old watches, there is certainly some stylistically awful stuff around. But that’s the era, not the brand.
Veering off topic but related to buying Hamiltons in Japan.
I bought this 1990s Hamilton Khaki 9415A from Japan. The 9415A is the civilian descendant of the MIL-W-46374D. I was really after the box for a Hamilton Khaki that I bought 30 years or so ago in the USA which I'm having serviced at the moment. I've also bought a new Hamilton strap and buckle for it at great expensive. I chucked box, papers and branded buckle out before I knew better.
I had planned to scavenge the box from the Japanese purchase and sell the 9415A to recover my costs.
Anyway, the watch is pristine with all the original papers and two unused nylon straps. I'm guessing it's unused NOS. It would be a shame to break it up so might keep it as it is. Probably in a drawer, I can't see me wearing it.
I thought not bad for about £150 plus £35 on import.
The Khaki I'm having serviced was bought 30 years ago. I reckon it was $220. Don't know why, it's a watch I'm very attached to and will never sell.
Last edited by BillyCasper; 7th March 2022 at 19:56.
I am aware of these, but no one seems to know much about them. A guy who calls himself military watch trader on Instagram has one, but even the guy who runs CWC Addict has never heard of the Cyma version.
https://www.instagram.com/militarywatchtrader/
The 5317 ending NSN is the same as the CWC G10. Cool thing, if it’s for sale I would buy it. Since hearing about it I have been keeping an eye on e-bay but haven’t seen one listed for sale yet.
Any more info on the one pictured here?
CYMA made one of the dirty dozen watches of course.
Like this one?
(no connection to seller, not a recommendation - I know nothing about these)
I don’t believe the watch pictured is a fake. Looking at the case back I would suggest that the watch was made around 1996. The discussion behind the picture on Instagram that I linked earlier suggests it could be a prototype of some sort that was never taken up. At some point back then Pulsar got in on the act, so maybe CYMA tendered for a MoD contract and lost out.
Dare we ask how much it is.
I would say that if you choose not to buy it, I would be interested
I think there may have been a small number of ‘prototypes’ made in the late 80s early 90s for both G10 and diver watches
There is a Cyma dialled diver on scubawatch.org although this does not conform with defstan requirements.
These were definitely not issued though.
It arrived, seems in good condition. Fixed bars, 19mm. Squeezed a ratty 20mm on it for now.
Any recommended straps for these?
TT
Tried a blue one (again 20mm). Put the sand NATO back on the watch in the background, another old CYMA
Very light and comfortable this type of watch, I had forgotten.
TT
Another great purchase buddy! I love this one, saw a post of one over on MWR and it caught my eye straight away. Really cool little watch, congratulations!
Can you post the link?
Was the CYMA a prototype for an MoD tender?
I have a vague recollection of some speculation about an order from the Hong Kong government.
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Here's a similar find that I stumbled across on Ebay. Does anyone know if Ollech & Wajs ever issued this model to armed forces, or did they just swipe the design of the G10 dial for a "regular" release?
HiHere's a similar find that I stumbled across on Ebay. Does anyone know if Ollech & Wajs ever issued this model to armed forces, or did they just swipe the design of the G10 dial for a "regular" release?
Nope O&W did not supply the UK or any other (to my knowledge) armed forces.
They did however sell a lot of watches (90s/00s) with the broad arrow on the dial for some reason. There is the odd rumour / post on line saying they were prototypes but I don’t think they were, it was just a marketing thing.
O&W did sell lots of watches to US troops in Vietnam as they were cheap and were sold via mail order in the Stars and Stripes magazines.
If you look at the case on this example, it is similar but it is not a G10, it has a screw down case back and different case shape. My guess is they made one that looked similar to the issued watches. They did the same with chronographs and submariners.
Last edited by Sinnlover; 20th June 2022 at 16:29.
I thought as much, thanks for confirming.
Great watch and a rare beast indeed. That’s two that I am aware of now. I still think prototype is the most likely and looking at the package around 1996.
What’s the back story here. Where did the watch appear for sale and how did the seller describe it. Looks NOS condition.
It was for sale at a well known used-goods national chain store in Nagoya, Japan. Description was along the lines of "working, with small scratches" - which is accurate! It's not NOS, there are small scratches on the crystal for example.
Last edited by Tokyo Tokei; 31st July 2021 at 12:44. Reason: way too much flannel
An excellent find, well done.
Thanks, I don't see these often if at all, so just luck.
If anyone is looking and wants their search to pickup Japanese sellers, try some of these keywords:
ミリタリー (Military]
腕時計 (wristwatch) or just 時計 (watch, but can also mean clock)
クォーツ (Quartz)
手巻き (Hand wind)
自動巻 (Automatic wind)
ロイヤル ネイビー ダイバーズ (Royal Navy Divers)
カボットウォッチカンパニー (Cabot Watch Company)
シーマ (CYMA)
スミス (Smiths)
ブロードアロー (Broad Arrow)
Yahoo Auctions (and to some extent, Rakuten) is the major online aggregator. Lots of physical shops sell via Yahoo Auctions / Rakuten as well as in-store, although many more remain in-person sales only. PayPal and eBay are not common, but I think there are forwarding companies that can help with overseas orders from the online sellers, including Yahoo Auctions. (No experience of these, sorry).
Hope this is helpful,
TT
I’ve bought a couple of auction items using the From Japan proxy and forwarding service, pretty smooth. A hard to find Seiko crystal and a Swiss Army Knife.
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I bought a few Seiko Alpinist’s from buyee.jp a few years back. A fairly easy site to use. The seller sent the goods to a central point then buyee shipped it internationally.
Congratulations. An interesting watch that. I wonder what movement it has in it.
Buyee is a very dangerous place. Well, for my bank balance at least.
I wonder too re the movement. It operates identically to my old CWC quartz G10. I have two other CYMA quartz watches of around the same vintage. They have the ETA 955 7 jewel variant, one is signed CYMA and one isn't. I am too wary to take the back off the G10 to find out (I assume it has a snap back?) in case I mangle it.
I’m guessing also that it would have the same movement as a CWC of a similar age, can’t recall the number right now. You are right not to take the back off, they are fairly easy to remove, but can be hell to put back on unless you the right tools, a watch case back press etc.
Yep that’s a Cyma WWW
One of the larger versions of the WWW and a very good quality watch.
Prices (like all military watches) are rising.
I like the hand set on the Cyma it’s a bit more modern in form.
Cyma certainly had their time...
I'm not sure who owns the brand now nor if they have done much with it recently. But with their history and the growing interest in military timepieces, it is surely ripe for a revival. (Eddie...?)
TT
One appeared on e-bay from a Spanish seller this week:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cyma-w10-...rdt=true&rt=nc
This appeared to be a full set with boxes and a CYMA embossed strap. Interestingly the case back is different to the one posted by the OP. Here are some photos for reference in the future:
I suspect the guarantee dated 2012 is from a secondhand jewellers or market stall offering a 3 or 6 month warranty. It doesn’t look like a CYMA issued guarantee. Looking at the watch and the case back I am still inclined to think it’s from around 1996. I also think like modern day CWCs this was just sold as a civilian watch to Joe public and is not a military issued watch. A homage to CWC G10s perhaps.
I was the only bidder and was successful, paid in full at the end of the auction only for the seller to cancel the sale and refund my money on the grounds that the watch is damaged. Looking at the photos I can only take it that must be Spanish for I didn’t get the price I was expecting. Bloody foreigners
Shame about the seller. (I also wonder how they got the strap on the fixed bars?)
They clip over, I have a few of those, Rios 1931 is a good make.
There is an article on them here:
https://www.watchobsession.co.uk/blo...os1931-arizona
Last edited by Wallasey Runner; 22nd August 2021 at 13:24.
Ah I see! The ends looked to be stitched, hence I was wondering if the "damage" was perhaps the fixed bars had been replaced with spring bars.
Thank you for the link <disappears down rabbit hole of clip-on straps>
Looks like our Spanish friend has relisted the Cyma.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274917106...MAAOSwYTZhHM26
I wonder if this curiosity might support your interpretation? It appears to be a clunky homage to the 'dirty dozen' watch, but wrong in what can only be deliberate ways. Whether it was produced by anyone with the right to brand it 'Cyma' goodness knows. Certainly nothing remotely like it on Cyma's token website...
That is truly horrible. Japan does seem to be becoming the new China with some dreadful watches and some that are very clearly fakes being listed. Doing a heritage version of one of your earlier watches like CWC or Timor is one thing when they are done well, but I don’t believe CYMA would know anything about this watch. Come on, WWW engravings on a Quartz watch, someone is taking the p**s there.
There's some info on fe-shop-japan here https://www.thewatchsite.com/threads....321613/page-2
…and indeed, that watch is being sold on Yahoo Auction here https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/q458849644 for ¥10,500 with no bids at present. That's about $91. The eBay re-seller doesn’t own it, but is making a decent markup if anyone bites.
It's not unheard of…
https://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B0822NX25Z/
https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/Regali...dp/B082462ST6/
…and doubtless many others.
Re the one on eBay. I’ve mentioned it before, but eBay failed in Japan. So if you see something on eBay as being from Japan, that listing is aimed at overseas buyers. Lots of legitimate shops here do have an eBay frontage to serve the overseas market, but equally, it can be a front for resellers fishing for whatever's “hot” overseas but “not” here - margin to be made.
In other words, don’t confuse what you see on eBay as from Japan as representative of what is popular here, it's entirely a frontage for the foreign buyer.
TT
Is there anyway to raise this with eBay?
Surely they would (ok we know they won’t) take action
I checked before if you can cover that by reporting an item, but it only gives you specific headings, no box for a message as such. The only other way would be to try and contact them, but as you say John I don’t think that would achieve anything.
Anyway, it’s currently priced around the same as a new CWC G10 so not over priced at present. Problem is £30 odd quid for postage and then 20% VAT on top - making it a less attractive proposition. I think I’ve just talked myself out of bothering with it
A bid, a retraction and then withdrawn by the seller.
That went well
This one watch is a show in its own right, it’s back again.
This time it’s a buy it now at 400€
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274920637...MAAOSwYTZhHM26
On a more serious note, what do we think it is actually worth. I have only seen two before, including TTs on here, so there aren’t many around. I’m guessing with postage, exchange rates and VAT etc when it hits the UK this little bundle of joy could end up costing someone very close to £500.00.
It’s not issued, it doesn’t rank the same as some of the individually rare G10s. £500 would get you a 1984 Precista. Is this in the same league, I suspect not…
I would not pay more than £100 for it
There is no interest other than it looks like a G10 and has some numbers on the back
As a research project I might be a bit of fun but that where the value is to me.
There may be a bit of paper somewhere confirming that they are a ‘rare prototype’ at which point the price will go stratospheric but I doubt it
My guess is there is a connection between Cyma and one of the makers of the G10s or Cyma bought some spare cases and stuck their logo on in an effort to stave off their inevitable collapse.
What a peculiar drama. The seller's listing states postage to the EU only, so I think that's that as far as UK interest goes.
As for value, there don't seem to be a lot of these around and hence there won't ever be a reference price derived from multiple sales and exhaustive tables of serials and years from collectors. So despite most likely never having taken a round trip to an army stores cupboard, they will fetch whatever someone is willing to pay.
Our Spanish friend clearly feels that might be "quite a lot". We shall see.
The value of yours is going up by the second
Whatever the history these are a very cool and rare piece, in better times I would have found £300 BIN difficult to resist(whilst still in the EU so no additional fees looming), at that price though it would be a pass for me even if I had the funds(I sold a near perfect issued '82 CWC fatboy for £300 about a year ago).
It is a beauty though, not only rare buy very pleasing tritium ageing.
Yey, I'm rich!
CYMA itself appears to be still going, owned by a conglomerate that includes Universal Genève, Catena (?) and the sole distribution rights to Seiko in Hong Kong, Malaysia and Singapore.
With CYMA's long and interesting history, military and horological provenance, I am surprised they are not doing much with the brand at present. Maybe making too much money selling Seikos in Asia.
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