I covered approximately 3,000 miles in 11 months in my Golf R thanks to lockdown, and decided that I couldn't justify keeping it under the present circumstances. I bought it last summer for £19,000.
WBAC came up with an offer of £19,675. I spoke to my local VW dealer, and agreed a deal involving a low-mileage Up! with a two-year warranty and £13,600 for it.
If I want to go anywhere, I need to get up a bit earlier in the morning, but right now it's like being paid to have a car. £20 annual tax and 60+ mpg compensate to a degree for the loss of the Golf. And as I'm selling off a few things to repay (most of) my mortgage, it seemed like a good idea. So right now, I'm playing the long game as far as car ownership is concerned, as I'm not yet convinced that electricity is the propulsion of the future, and although fossil fuels appear to have a finite life, owning a car which uses so little of the stuff that it's not a concern means that I can wait and see where the future really lies - for example, JCB have developed an engine which runs on hydrogen, which could be a game-changer. Anybody trumpeting the virtues of electric power for cars should investigate the costs of having to replace a battery pack four or five years down the line, once it's been through a few thousand charging cycles.
Obviously, the prices currently offered for clean, low-mileage ICE powered cars won't last, the bubble will burst once the chip shortage is addressed and production returns to normal, although there will be a period of adjustment to take up the supply shortage. Let's see what happens to values of ICE cars in two or three years time.
Last edited by Backward point; 8th July 2021 at 10:41. Reason: Excessive use of "Obviously"
Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
in my mate's case he got what he was quoted.Originally Posted by pugster
Same for me with a similar site when i sold my motorbike.
In my experience if you detail all the faults then they've got nowhere to go and nowhere to negotiate on. IMHO the issue is when someone says "no bodywork damage" and then turns up with a few scuffs etc. It's better to take the hit of a few hundred quid online and then give them nowhere to go. Although i think they are a franchise so your mileage may vary there.
I've never used them myself but when I bought my campervan last year the conversion company, who are not a car dealer themselves, said they would give whatever wbac quotes for my car in part ex.
He explained he did it that way because wbac always paid him the amount quoted, after he himself had inspected the car for damage, curbed wheels etc of course.
On a side note, I paid 31.5k for the campervan last year, a 2 year old vw t6, 24k miles, with new camper conversion. The same company are now asking and getting 35k plus for ones like mine, and 31-32k for five year old ones with 75k+ on the clocks. They didn't used to bother with anything older or higher mileage than mine, but I guess they can't get hold of enough fairly new low mileage examples now?
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I was going to ask what cars going up by £10k but I checked the price for our TT and that's increased by £3k over what we paid last year (and the quoted price presumably excludes that ours has multiple desirable FF extras). Madness.
You clearly haven’t a clue about electric vehicles; battery replacement costs are no more of an issue than engine/gearbox replacement costs of an ICE vehicle and I’m sure you didn’t investigate those when buying your UP!
Well, I had a chat with Honda when I was looking to buy a CR-Z.
They only warranty the batteries for a certain period (IIRC eight years) and then it was a £2k replacement when needed.
I think the thing is that Honda ICE hardly ever let go, so it seemed to me a more likely cost I would incur if I did what I usually do and run a car for a long time.
Just because the warranty is only eight years, it doesn’t mean that it won’t last longer; how long was the warranty on the engine?
I’ve run a small (24kwhr nissan Env200) van for six years now without any significant battery degradation. I fully expect it to continue to meet my requirements for another 10-15 years. Most EV batteries are repurposed elsewhere once they are taken from the car for whatever reason so even when the car has ceased to be, they go in being useful.
My engine/gearbox analogy really does hold true and no one talks about the cost of replacing them when buying a new car.
Obviously never owned a rotary!
I can understand a certain amount of skepticism around the longevity of batteries - They're (I understand) pretty much the same as phone batteries massively duplicated, but phone batteries don't have a great record of retaining their charge over many years.
I'm sure battery technology is advancing as the motor industry ramps up its demands on suppliers, but that only suggests that what you buy today will be yesterday's technology when you come to sell/trade-in. You could argue ICEs are already that, but at least it is a mature technology that isn't likely to be dramatically improved on in 5-10 years' time.
In ten years' time it'll be interesting to see whether you're right and there really is no reason to doubt their life and/or where the technology has got to.
Either way, I'm happy to stick with at least one ICE in the house for a bit longer.
M
Last edited by snowman; 8th July 2021 at 14:06.
Breitling Cosmonaute 809 - What's not to like?
Well yes, the rotary engines are a law unto themselves!
How long do you need a battery to last; there are electric cars over ten years old still driving around quite happily? My van is a 64 plate and I’ve barely lost any range.
Yes of course the technology will improve and get cheaper in the next few years but that doesn’t make today’s vehicles any less useful.
No one refuses to buy a new car today because a better version will be available in five years time.
It seems that all the arguments and reluctance to change to EVs can equally be levelled at ICE and really are just as unimportant.
Well, one of us will be right. And, Mazda rotary engines notwithstanding, there aren't many ICE's with useful lives of less than 100,000+ miles on offer these days. Gearboxes are quite reliable, as well.
Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
To be honest if after 8years I had to pay £2k for new batteries I’d be ok with that. I’m leaning towards an 2018 XC60 T8 at the moment, I can run on electric only 95% of the time.
£2k labour to fit the batteries, maybe. Right now, the batteries for a Renault Zoe or Nissan Leaf are in the region of £7k-£10k, although this will reduce over time, with more and more people changing to electric.
But how will the looming spectre of battery replacement costs affect the values of used cars? The potential depreciation and cost of battery replacement will be factored into leasing costs, obviously. The sensible way to own an electric car appears to be on a two or three year lease, then hand it back and lease another one, but even so, the monthly payments will need to cover the potentially high costs of battery replacement and depreciation.
Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
That’s all very well but you seem convinced that batteries will need to be replaced.
To date, and the Leaf has been around for ten years, this hasn’t proved to be the case. Also, as batteries get larger (50kwhr seems to be the entry point these days as opposed to 22-24kwhr ten years ago) the batteries will need charging less and so last longer.
24kwhr Leafs have done 150,000 Mike’s plus, just how many miles do you want a battery to last?
I have an i3 and wouldn’t even dream if any long term battery changes
Lots of BS from oldies who talk plop about it all - new VW id4 is nice on range
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Good question.
Not sure how long the warranty on the engine was but I do know Honda used to brag that they had never had a stock Vtec engine let go. Or something like that.
Yes. The only slight flaw is that I was looking at buying a very low mileage dealer car that was about six years old at the time.
I think the point is that regardless of the facts, the general perception is that EV batteries will need to be replaced, and it will be expensive to do so (to the extent that it's uneconomic compared to the car's value). Unless this perception changes, then it will have a negative effect on an older EV's resale value.
This will probably end up being a moot point anyway. In the future, it will be something like manufacturers only providing software updates to a car's OS for x years that kills cars.
Furthermore, I will spontaneously invent an EV vs. hydroen fuel cell battle for supremecy. In that battle, sre EVs VHS or Betamax?
I watched the news the other night when investment in electric car production had been made up north and the segment showed a production line momentarily. It looked to me like the battery compartment was effectively the chassis of whatever vehicle it was. I would have thought it would be uneconomical to strip that little lot down for battery replacement in ten or whatever years.
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This ship appears to have sailed. A number of years ago, EVs were being handed back at the end of PCPs due to being worth considerably less than the balloon payment. This doesn’t happen any more and EVs seem to depreciate slightly less than ICE.
Whilst Tesla send updates over the air, most EVs, like most ICE are only updated when necessary or not at all. My van had never had a software update.
EVs are both Betamax in that it’s better than HFC and VHS in that it is the one that is being taken up by most. HFC will have its place but is unlikely to be in cars.
OK understood.
Wish I'd bounced it off all of you at the time as the dealer went into great length about battery replacement and even suggested a third party would do the work more cheaply.
I might have bought it if I'd known it was a minimal risk.
How do you charge your batteries? There is talk that fast-charging kills batteries, so perhaps overnight charging from a domestic 3-pin socket might be kinder, and improve longevity.
Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
I have just valued my car via motorway out of curiosity (c63s estate) and it’s apparently worth 3.5k more than I paid just over 2 months ago! Crazy prices at the moment, motorbikes seem to be the same.
Don’t take my word for it, I’m only one owner.
Have a look on the speakEV forum. There’s lots of moaning about things but battery replacement costs or issues never gets a mention.
If you do the maths at around 200 miles per charge, one charge per week is 10,000 miles per year so 1000 charges (a minimum life span often quoted) is 20!years. The 1000 charges is until the battery is at about 75% or 150 miles range so you’ve still got a useable car, just less range.
^Right, and the CR-Z was partially ICE anyway.
*absent-mindedly opens Autotrader and starts to browse the classifieds*
There has been lots of talk about battery charging but I charge overnight to 100% using my charge point. My van will only charge at 3.3kw or 50kw rapid which I don’t do often.
I’ve long since stopped worrying about whether I’m doing it right and just do what I need when I need.
I bought an RS6 a year ago, almost to the day, and have been phoned twice this week by the dealership I purchased it from asking if they could buy it back. I haven't had an offer from them as I'm not interested in selling the car.
Just got an email from WBAC increasing their valuation on my 2016 diesel GLC from 23k to 23.44k.
Tempting until you see that swapping to a 2019 petrol GLC or X3 will cost about £15k on top. Not worth it.
If the semiconductor shortage is only going to get worse over the next two years it's tempting to change now in case we're stuck with the same car for another 3 years which isn't ideal with a diesel in London.
New car orders are in at least some cases not being promised till the new year. Every shortage cascades down the food chain, all the way to old bangers.
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Indeed. A rising tide lifts all boats.
Always loved that phrase.
I’m fairly sure if memory serves me that my 2018 3.0L X3 was worth around 32k around 3 months back. Even though it was PCH I managed to buy it for 30k and now WBAC and Motorway are offering 34k. Crazy pricing. Glad I’ve bought as I can’t find anything else I prefer at the moment.
Not exactly related but I have just taken my 2019 Nissan navara in for some work and enquired about ordering a new one as this one has to go back next year.
Apparently there are currently very few second hand available and from now Nissan, Mercedes, Renault, Mitsubishi and possibly ford will not be selling new pickups into the uk market.
They weren’t sure about Toyota and Isuzu’ plans.
Mercedes stopped a while ago. Their pick up was essentially a rebadged and significantly repriced navara.
Ford are more than likely to continue with the Ranger. VW have co developed a new(ish) platform to share with their new Amarok.
Not sure Renault ever offered a pick up and Mitsubishi have been pulling out of UK market for some time anyway due to various regulations making it untenable for them. This may change.
Isuzu sell minimal amounts and I would be surprised if Toyota stopped the hilux.
I'd be surprised if anything stopped the Hilux.
Thanks for the information, I believe it may have been Fiat (rebadged something) and not Renault.
I will try ford and Toyota and see what they have to offer
Well all i can say after spending most of the day looking for a new car it really is bad out in the second hand car market.
I usually buy pre registered or something under 6 months old and i have never seen such empty spaces on every dealer i went to.
I didn't have a particular car in mind but my preference is usually Mazda Toyota Honda Kia something in what i still think is value for money.
I also looked at the Audi BMW and Mercedes garages and what i noticed here is not only was the stock low but the preperation of the cars was poor,most of the ones left looked like they would probably be sent to auction if the dealers could get enough stock.
There were some nearly new cars and i was offered more for mine than what i thought but was very tempted with the new Ford Puma ST which is a bit left field for me but i will wait until the situation improves.
Another text from WBAC yesterday. Price has gone up another £800. Things must be dire.
Correct. Just taken delivery of my new company vehicle, and first pickup of any description. Very impressed thus far…
Suzuki Jimmy: no longer fs in the Netherlands. Last price new: 28k euros.
Now, second hand between 35 and 42k!!!
Lovely, how long was the wait from order?Correct. Just taken delivery of my new company vehicle, and first pickup of any description. Very impressed thus far…
Does it have 360 cameras?
Thanks
I have noticed in the 2 months since I bought my car that all the volvo dealers have similer s60s to mine but they all seem to be about a year older are less well specd have done loads more miles and are up to 1k more expensive have things really changed that much in 2 months?
Same here, I changed up my Civic at the start of November, the same age & spec cars with more than twice the mileage are now between 2K and 5K more.
Ordered at start of year I believe, so just over 6 months. It’s an Invincible so pretty decent spec, rear camera which you need tbh, adaptive cruise, Apple CarPlay, really enjoy driving it surprisingly since my last job had a BMW 530e as company wheels. The BM however cannot get up near 45 degree tracks in quarries which I need for new role (GM of a service company for renewables, quarrying, forestry etc.). Tax is also about £120 a month cheaper than 530e so win win really.
Knowing zip about the car market, is this situation going to continue for a long time, or in a few months will normality return and second hand care will drop a lot in value?
My local BMW garage is keen to try and do a deal with me but the guy that phoned me admitted that new sales had been awful as they hardly had anything to sell. In the same conversation he said they had some good deals! I’m yet to hear back from him on what these deals are.
From what I am reading about the supply of the micro chips impacting car manufacturing this issues is likely to be here until early next year.
I found this video informative.
https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publ...ove-new/228830
Devonian,
I noticed you said you had a X3.
I have just ordered a new X3 on Monday, , on the strength of the current px price. Also managed to get a 10% discount through a broker. The new one is supposed to arrive in November. At that time my current X3 will be 2 years 9 months old , they have guaranteed me a PX price, for when it arrives only 8k less than when I bought it new!
If they do offer you a early build slot make sure it is for the face lifted model, which they start building in September I believe.
Got to be the best time to buy new car with a PX, while it lasts.
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Last edited by mijyou; 24th July 2021 at 01:53.
Thanks for the info, very informative, especially listening to the video. Amazing to think how the car market is right now.
I am prepared to swap my Honda Civic for a 4 bed detached house with a sea view.
I think you are right...i believe things are so bad that Audi are only supplying one key for new builds for the next few months...things are not likely to get better until next year.
You’ve underpriced yourself Mick. You’d probably get a 5 bed detached house with a sea view and a pool.
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