Reply With QuoteHe might have had an off day 😀Originally Posted by Chewitt13
Mo farrah joins well known drug trainer training stable, becomes best in the world, leaves the stable....doesn't even qualify....hmmmmmm
I know he is older but this is qualification not winning it
Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
He might have had an off day 😀
Time to call it a day and become a TV pundit. That’s the normal route for sports people coming to the end of their professional careers.
Lol! When you put it like that…
Also, an appearance on I’m a celebrity is usually the first sign of a dead or dying career.
It feels like all top athletes are possibly at it, look at cycling, it feels like they just keep ahead of the drug substance ban list, whilst not illegal not really in the spirit, football is about money doping.... Looking for another Eddie the eagle!!!!!
Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
I thought he was semi retired now so it came as no shock to myself when i seen the headline
Very cynical view point. Always a few cheats in life, sport is no different to business and finance.
Mo was a great champion who has targeted marathon and is advancing in years.
I'm confused as he missed the qualification time by only 19 seconds but after the race he's still standing and not collapsed and completely knackered ?
ive never been a runner or really understood the sport.
Depends what limits performance. Aerobic engine or muscles. I bet his legs were hurting.
Most people are limited by the aerobic performance hence all the huffing and puffing.
I don't read the MSM much so I've no idea what allegations he is facing.
Are you suggesting he was doping?
He seems like a man with integrity, so it would surprise me.
You can lose outright speed but endurance tends to be something you can recapture at an older age. Lots of runners simply move up the age groups and keep on training hard.
He was probably in his track prime around 8-9 years ago, so to suggest he must have been on the juice then based on his performances now (he’s almost 40yrs old!) is pretty odd.
He seems a genuine bloke with a great back story, and I would be gutted if it turned out he was cheating - but I really don’t see it. He is just winding down his career, and as others have said he’s definitely focused on the marathon in recent years
The trouble is; is it even conceivable that anyone in Salazar’s camp didn’t know what the team were doing? And assuming they must know, why would anyone be in the team and not dope?
It's never been proven but the allegations have always been there, prior to 2011 the highest position he finished in world competition was 7th, in 2011 he joined Alberto Salazar training in Portland and the following year became the fastest runner in the world
His running partner during this period Galen rupp. Rupp, salazer and the team doctor were all central to the doping scandal for which salazer and the doctor were both banned for 4 years in 2019.
There is no doubting he's a nice guy but only he knows what went on during this period
Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
There are some incredibly trusting people on this thread. Now I must go and check how my magic bean investment is coming along.
It's just a matter of time...
The trouble is mainstream media did the thing they like to do where they deem someone worthy of ‘national icon status’. Which has the consequence that casual fans might not fully understand the situation as to save embarrassment they’ just ignore him now.
Doping is bloody awful, you’re basically stealing other athletes careers and large chunks of their lives. But, it’s so endemic in elite sport, and I suppose club level sport, it’s also slightly understandable.
Last edited by Rodder; 28th June 2021 at 09:03.
Equally there are some incredibly cynical people on this thread; I think you have to take a view on these things and if you'd ever been part of an elite sport squad you'd know that you don't have intimate knowledge of the actions of all members of that squad.
To follow your logic the winner of every gold medal must be juiced ... anyone who feels that way I assume never watches any elite of pro sport as it would have no entertainment value under such terms.
Not everyone who use doping win.
There are winners who don’t use doping.
Mo Farrah probably isn’t one of them.
Can you share your thoughts about what you would conclude from Chewitt's post, please:
If his first sentence is factual it certainly justify a strong helping of cynicism: at the very least, the doubt can be called reasonable.It's never been proven but the allegations have always been there, prior to 2011 the highest position he finished in world competition was 7th, in 2011 he joined Alberto Salazar training in Portland and the following year became the fastest runner in the world
His running partner during this period Galen rupp. Rupp, salazer and the team doctor were all central to the doping scandal for which salazer and the doctor were both banned for 4 years in 2019.
There is no doubting he's a nice guy but only he knows what went on during this period
It doesn't mean the guy should be crucified as there is no proof that I am aware of, but a pinch of salt is required. It doesn't change the fact he is an exceptional athlete but the facts are that his rise coincided with his joining that stable, and his twilight (at least on track) is of course linked to his age but also coincides with him leaving his good doctor...
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Somewhat related. Bill Burr on steroids.
https://youtu.be/hEhb8_GJ70M
No need for doping, all you need is 'practice and protein'.
Maybe Mo just forgot to eat his breakfast Quorn that morning, or didn't practice enough...?
The margins in elite sport are tiny and the difference between 7th and 1st can attributed to a range in variables including doping, training, nutrition etc ...
Also the testing in sport is better than it has ever been ...
People here are either making the guilty be association or guilty by performance assumption of doping which I would consider to be unfair and perhaps a little lazy ... and if you make those assumptions I can't see how you can have any interest in elite sport as by that reasoning all winners are cheats.
I'm happy to consider his achievements genuine; I think he is a great sportsman and his back story should be considered an inspiration.
I don't disagree with the last part of your last sentence at all.
And the improvement between 7th and 1st may indeed be tiny. The problem starts when this improvement comes from a stable where the trainer and medic have been sentenced for doping, and where other runners got caught.
It is true that one can take the cynical view that all winners in elite sports are cheats that also cheated the detection system. I refuse to make that leap personally; However, when the team is globally involved, and the gain in performance follows, the pinch of salt is the least I can offer.
Benefit of the doubt, yes so again he isn't vilified (he certainly doesn't deserve that), but not on an altar anymore either.
The cycling equivalents of Salazar have demonstrated that opting out of their program was not really on the table.
Now regarding doping and elite sports, there is a school that says: if the controls are always one generation late at identifying the drug-cheats, why not go back to the times when it was unregulated? Sure, a few may die early, or experience other issues (East German women swimming team?) but elite sports is not healthy anyway, for body and mind.
Did Lasse Viren really cheat? (the first I believe who self-transfused, allegedly of course). I think he was outstanding anyway, and besides it was not forbidden at the time...
Last edited by Saint-Just; 28th June 2021 at 11:58.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
+1, lots of comments on here from people who obviously know nothing about the sport.
At the age of 38 Mo Farah can`t expect to be as fast as he was 4-5 years ago, even with optimum training and nutrition it's impossible to beat father time and it's not unreasonable to be 30-40 secs slower over 10K simply due to the age effect. He's also focussed his training on the marathon over this period and that's bound to have had some influence.
I was surprised Mo even considered having another stab at the Olympic 10K, championship races are usually won in relatively slow times with very fast finishes (something he excelled at) but I seriously doubt whether he's still got the speed-endurance capability to be competitive at this level. Even with optimised training anaerobic capacity will drop with age and that's what you need to run a blistering last lap.
Farah made the right decision to move up to marathon, he's produced world-class performances but not quite good enough to be a genuine medal contender at World/Olympic level. You can`t win 'em all and maybe it was ambitious to assume his capability over shorter distances would translate to a championship-winning marathon.
There are lots of arm chair / keyboard warriors who watch sport and like to sound off about it ... but have no experience of elite sport.
Many years ago I was an Olympic hopeful and have friends who have been to the games and have a few friends who have won medals. I also know people who are coaches and performance directors of 3 different sports and doping is a constant thorn in their side ... the mud flinging by association or performance is just lazy ... and of great annoyance to all the honest participants.
The difference between success and failure so so slim it's hard to explain and to heap doping allegations onto anyone with success is unfair ...
Of course we all know how bad cycling was during the Armstrong era because that had so much press but people rarely kick off about other sports ... there will always be cheats but don't let that spoil the mainstream which I believe to be honest.
The other thing that is challenging is the ethical / rules boundaries. Pro sports people will do anything permitted by the rules to win; sport is an arbitrary concept and so the rules are there to be observed up to the limits ... sometimes people like to blur this with their own application of ethics which is a woolly line made up by them ... this is irrelevant ... only the rules matter which is why some people have won Olympic medals doing thing which are now banned; e.g. https://web.stanford.edu/~learnest/cyclops/dopes.htm
It was his second failure to reach the qualifying time..... on the first timed qualifying run in Birmingham he was 22 seconds outside the time.
So on that reasoning, one shouldn’t have an opinion on a current affairs issue unless they’ve had direct experience?
I’ve never been a politician or had an affair with an aide, but Matt Hancock is a bit of d@@@. Or should I just not comment?
I don't think that is a fair analogy as it is a subject matter we all have experience of in terms of the impact of politics and our own relationships; the sharp end of elite sport is not a widely understood world.
In addition there is plenty of evidence of Mr. Hancock's poor performance and affairs so opinions can be formed off facts, I see no evidence of Mo's misconduct yet people are prepared to fling mud regardless ... imagine if people started question your performance at work based off hearsay and association ... I suspect you'd be pretty unhappy.
Last edited by Montello; 28th June 2021 at 13:11.
But you would accept it’s reasonable for the general public to comment on sport and sport stars?
I couldn’t say either way, but I certainly think there’s a possibility. I just don’t see how he could work side by side, day after day with one of the biggest drug cheats ever and not be aware. And if he was aware others were doping why did he stay.
One might be unkind and say that as an Olympic hopeful rather than an Olympian your experience at "the sharp end of elite sport" is also limited, especially as I believe your sport was far away from athletics, cycling or swimming.
As to the allegations, they are not made because Mo won so much during his career. They are made because he started winning when he joined a team whose trainer, medic and a few athletes were convicted for doping offences. It is not quite the same thing.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Of course. Sport is an entertainment industry and so they want people discussing it.
I’m just saying if you don’t know for certain, or at least have some relevant knowledge, then probably best not to speculate … or if you do keep an open mind.
The Armstrong case casts a long shadow over elite sport.
Well you can say that if you wish ... I stopped on financial grounds as it was before the days of lottery funding and I had to get a job...
But I'm still an active sports person and have represented GBR in sailing and cycling ... I many not be Mo Farrar but I know a bit about elite sport and I choose to believe in Mo's achievements and wouldn't fling mud without any evidence.
Implying guilt by association is a poor act IMO but if others wish do do so that is their prerogative.
It's unfair to think that Mo is a drug cheat as I'm pretty sure he would have been regularly tested.
He's been top of his career and like any athlete that peak performance can't be assured year after year.
That's a rather convenient excuse.
1) runner is doing great but not quite world class podium material
2) runner joins a reputed team and coach and becomes world number 1
3) coach and medic are convicted for performance enhancing drug use and promotion, as well as some athletes from the team
I have stopped short of jumping to the next step, just saying that a pinch of salt is required. He has his medals and he will keep them. His bank account is as full as his trophy cabinet and he earned it. He has also been a superb role model. I felt uncomfortable when he was asked about Salazar and doping, and found his answers far less convincing that I would have wished
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
No that is my view based on my knowledge of how private programmes are within elite sports environments even amongst the same training group.
Last edited by Montello; 28th June 2021 at 15:15.
That would be a very convincing reason if only some athletes had been caught.
But the 2 most important things every private programme from every elite athlete in a training group have in common, are the coach and the medic, in this case Alberto Salazar and Dr Jeffrey Brown. And they were both convicted.
Maybe you want to read this: https://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/49853029
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
So does your doctor tell you the medication your mates are on?
I though you had an understanding of how elite sports programme work. Doctors don't tell me what my mates are on, but they tell me what to take.
Read the article and come back to me. Including the part where Mo had his "infusion" in the UK that was not recorded properly.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Reach what ever conclusions you like from your second hand internet research.
I’ll continue to have faith in Mo and his performances.
Faith against research. Make sure you discredit said research by calling it "second hand", whereas your faith, no doubt, is "first hand". Yep, that sums things up reasonably well.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
In sports where a couple of percentage points of performance is the difference between first and last then any doper will win. EPO/HGH microdosing are undetectable and have huge performance benefits.
If you assume there are dopers, then you have to assume the winners are doping. Occam's razor.
I would assume that every pro sportsman uses.
What sport were you involved in ?
Chess.
He said sailing and cycling
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Cycling every top rider dopes and sailing I can’t see there being an advantage to doping.
By saying you’ve been around elite sport and you don’t think there is real doubt Mo has doped is genuinely incredible.
- - - Updated - - -
Cycling every top rider dopes and sailing I can’t see there being an advantage to doping.
By saying you’ve been around elite sport and you don’t think there is real doubt Mo has doped is genuinely incredible.
If you believe that then I assume there is no interest in watching the Olympics or any pro sport ...
Doping detection has come a long way and I personally choose to have faith in sport and enjoy watching it; I applaud the winners for their successes. Sure a few cheats may slip through the net but they are very much the minority is my stand point.
The athletes who make up the non medal winners are the ones arguably not doping.
Virtually every medal winner in every sport is doping. ( I don’t class sailing as a sport sorry ).
To believe doping detection has come along way is genuinely laughable, the detection is at least a decade behind of what designer cocktails these athletes are taking.
Olympic class windsurfing can be considered as a high-intensity endurance type of sport that is comparable to other aerobic sporting activities such as rowing.
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...ic_windsurfers
Pumping is now permitted in other classes since that research was done. That said as a highly technical sport it isn't as clean cut on physical performance as non-technical sports.
Last edited by Montello; 28th June 2021 at 17:12.
[QUOTE=Montello;5781000]The amount of people that compete in windsurfing must be absolutely tiny, I didn’t even know it was an Olympic event.
The comment wasn't about participation levels but rather your comment that it's not sport; but we digress ...
Anyway ... Mo = top man ...
Posting Permissions