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Thread: Sleeping issues

  1. #1
    Craftsman
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    Sleeping issues

    I have developed a strange sleeping problem last few weeks ,I go to bed at usual time around 1/130 am and wake up around 4am feeling anxious and uneasy and I have to get up and try and relax reading or watching utube sometimes go back to sleep around 530/6am or else give up on sleep for the day .As you can imagine Iam feeling worse and worse over time ,I have always been a light sleeper but did not have problems like this before
    .Has anybody got some advice on how to get an uninterrupted night's sleep as this is very frustrating .I phoned my GP and she gave me promethazine which worked for two days and then made no difference ,Iam am reluctant to phone back up and get on stronger pills unless absolutely necessary. I have used various over the counter sleeping pills in the past and they don't really work for me ,tried propranolol ,magnesian glyconate and CBD in the past did not notice much difference .

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  2. #2
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    Is there a subconscious or conscious worry in your life? Better to face and deal with the issue than try to mask it with drugs, I also find I sleep better when itís completely dark ( black out curtains) and with white noise like a fan in the room, but thatís more because Iím used to it.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  3. #3
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    Google is your friend here. Lots of people have had changes to their sleep pattern as a result of the pandemic background. Anxiety that we didnt realise was there surfacing etc. My missus is a light sleeper and I normally sleep right though but in the last 18 months my sleep pattern has become more disrupted.

    Most of the advice centers on the 3/4 hours before going to sleep.
    Reducing blue screen activity
    Cooling the room down eg ventilation
    Reducing alcohol consumption……….I know I know.
    Avoiding caffeinated drinks eg tea before bed.

    Then the sleeping environment, we are approaching the longest day, are your curtains blinds keeping out the morning sun?

    Lots af good suggestions before looking at medication.

    Lastly rather than read or watching YouTube, have you tried listening to an audio book, free from most libraries. They have a sleep mode on so you can set it at 15/20/30 min duration etc. An audiobook require virtually no interaction unlike a book or YouTube

    Good luck with your quest

    Steve
    Last edited by higham5; 13th June 2021 at 08:28.

  4. #4
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    I can identify with this big time - currently surviving on about 4 hours per night (I haven't slept well for many, many years and I'm sure it's anxiety-based because I wake up thinking about "stuff" and find it very hard to drift off again).

    Can I suggest, whilst you continue your research, that you try Melatonin? It's a natural remedy - a hormone in fact, although there are man-made forms of it - that can really be quite effective, especially if you get a slow release version. I tend to take it sporadically when I really need a decent night, but I've always found that it works.
    Last edited by learningtofly; 13th June 2021 at 08:57.

  5. #5
    Master Paneraiseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by learningtofly View Post
    I can identify with this big time - currently surviving on about 4 hours per night (I haven't slept well for many, many years and I'm sure it's anxiety-based because I wake up thinking about "stuff" and find it very hard to drift off again).

    Can I suggest, whilst you continue your research, that you try Melatonin? It can really be quite effective, especially if you get a slow release version. I tend to take it sporadically when I really need a decent night, but I've always fond that it works.
    Only talking about this the other day and CBD oil was mentioned. Anyone given that a try?

  6. #6
    Master hhhh's Avatar
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    Valerian is a natural herb that can be taken for both anxiety and insomnia. I find one pill very effective if I wake up in the night, and then struggle to get back to sleep due to the mind racing.
    Last edited by hhhh; 13th June 2021 at 08:45.

  7. #7
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    Meditation before bed?

    And is it the same time every night? Sounds silly but with things opening back up again, it wouldnít be a local airport / transport hub beginning earlier would it?

  8. #8
    Master Rod's Avatar
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    Get to bed earlier
    No mobile use after 8pm
    No caffeine
    Dark room
    Read a book before sleeping
    This should help😴

  9. #9
    Master jimp's Avatar
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    Gin & Tonic

  10. #10
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    I have suffered with disturbed sleep on and off for several years. Iíd echo the point raised about not staring at screens and phones for a good hour or so before bed.

    Iíve also had success with diphenhydramine, which is an over the counter antihistamine and has a mild side-effect of causing drowsiness. Also melatonin is worth a shot. I donít think either are really a good idea long term, but may help until you try to get to the root cause.

  11. #11
    Room temperature also has an impact on sleep, I’ve always found a cooler room is consistent with better sleep, I don’t know if there’s scientific research behind that but for me that’s certainly the case.

  12. #12
    Grand Master sundial's Avatar
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    A large cup of COCOA early evening ... two heaped teaspoons of cocoa ... water and milk ... with or without sugar. Cocoa contains caffeine so best not to drink it too late but if drunk 5/6 hours before bedtime the caffeine would have dispersed and should have no effect on sleep. Cocoa contains SEROTONIN which promotes that 'feel good' factor and is calming and an anti-depressive https://www.hormone.org/your-health-...ones/serotonin ... SEROTONIN also assists MELATONIN to work; MELATONIN helps us to sleep so try eating melatonin rich foods https://mammothcomfort.com/melatonin...-nights-sleep/. ... and sleep in a darkened room. And try and avoid late evening tea and coffee which contain caffeine and can prevent sleep.

    Also consider a 15 minute walk every evening ... exercise can assist the body's metabolism to help promote sleep.
    Last edited by sundial; 13th June 2021 at 12:11.
    "After a certain age you got the face you deserve I think" ... Henri Cartier-Bresson

  13. #13
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    Interesting thread. I'm sorry to hear there are so many of you who have trouble sleeping but it's also nice to know I'm not alone in this. Lots of what has been said chimes with me. I am such a light sleeper I wake so easily in the night. When I wake my brain starts thinking about things and it's downhill from there. These thoughts are absolutely trivial in the cold light of day but for some reason they are a big deal when I lie awake.

    My biggest problem is sleeping the night before a big day. There are currently two big days in the week where I have to get up mega early and commute down South to teach. Its almost as if I set myself up not to sleep on those evenings and getting through the day with no sleep isn't pleasant and this adds to the pressure to get a good night's sleep in.

    I've tried the Boots equivalent of Nytol (the assistant said its the same) and it does seem to help me drift off but I soon wake and I'm back to staring at the walls until its time to get up.

  14. #14
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    try to go to bed and get up the exact same times always and try not to get up in the middle of the night if you can

    easier said than done

  15. #15
    Master Yorkshiremadmick's Avatar
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    Good Luck to everyone on the quest for a good nights sleep.
    Iíve tried everything suggested here and more except for CBD.
    Iíve Not had a good nights sleep, since moving into our New Build. January 2018.
    Iím now of the opinion it could be the chemicals being released from MDF and other chemicals etc used in the construction of the house.
    The 50ís Bungalow we moved from, I slept like a log. Dead to the World.


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  16. #16
    Master Gruntfuttock's Avatar
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    I have always been a light sleeper but it has got worse over the decades (I'm now 58). Whilst I do wake early it isn't due to thinking about 'stuff' anymore; early retirement cured that 8 months ago! However, I have always been sensitive to light (sunrise) and the slightest bit of noise, especially in the summer with the windows open. So I would recommend you use soft earplugs and an eyemask. Yes you will look silly but I find it helps around 4am at the moment when the light starts to creep into the room and the dawn chorus starts up outside.
    I had a particularly bad nights sleep last night (3 hours) due to the heat and the noise outside, so staying awake through England's performance this afternoon will be a challenge.

  17. #17
    Grand Master Mr Curta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave O'Sullivan View Post
    Meditation before bed?
    Works for me, also if I wake up with the mind working overtime. A guided bodyscan practice usually sends me off. There are loads of apps, it's worth doing a bit of research. The well known Headspace is actually pretty good but comes at a price, The Mindfulness Association app is also secular, free, and has a range of practices for differing levels of experience. Plum Village offer a number of guided Deep Relaxation meditations rooted in both neuroscience and Zen Buddhism.
    Inform - Educate - Entertain

  18. #18
    Been regularly waking up at 5am recently and quite like it but you could try a tryptophan supplement.

  19. #19
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    Really sorry to hear this. What struck me was that what you describe is very similar to the experience of a friend of mine. He was a police inspector, but retired a few years ago and it seemed that the loss of focus in his life induced by retirement had a detrimental impact. He'd wake up in the early hours of the morning, obsessing about (what should be) a minor worry like the state of the exterior paint and be unable to sleep again. He sought counselling about it and that was very helpful, but not before he'd started to harbour the occasional suicidal thought.

    Perhaps best to get some help with it early on.

  20. #20
    Look at your food and think if youíve been having something different recently. I find I canít sleep with certain food especially if Iíve taken multi vitamins

  21. #21
    Master Chinnock's Avatar
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    Been waking earlier of late thanks to earlier sunrise, birds, open windows etc.

    I find the best thing is not to know the time, otherwise the brain kicks in. Prefer to drift back not knowing how long before the alarm goes off.

    Ignorance is bliss!

  22. #22
    I always find it helps to Ďserviceí the missus, then nod off when Iím done - been working for years ;)
    Iím only partly joking, I suspect it gives you a natural dose of Melatonin! Works better than a cup of Cocoa in my book


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  23. #23
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobDad View Post
    I always find it helps to Ďserviceí the missus, then nod off when Iím done - been working for years ;)
    Iím only partly joking, I suspect it gives you a natural dose of Melatonin! Works better than a cup of Cocoa in my book


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Itís a kind offer mate. Are you sure your wife wonít mind?

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave O'Sullivan View Post
    Itís a kind offer mate. Are you sure your wife wonít mind?
    Iím not sure sheíd notice :)


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  25. #25
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    Same here , wake up 3:30 ish, awake for 1 or 2 hours then fall asleep for an hour or so. Real pain!

  26. #26
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobDad View Post
    Iím not sure sheíd notice :)


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    Touchť 😊

  27. #27
    There was an article on BBC about walking and sunlight exposure which helps in getting good sleep. As I have been WFH, I ensure I go for a long walk.

    It might also be worth getting a new pillow. My sleep improved after getting two new pillows.

  28. #28
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by prexelor View Post
    There was an article on BBC about walking and sunlight exposure which helps in getting good sleep. As I have been WFH, I ensure I go for a long walk.

    It might also be worth getting a new pillow. My sleep improved after getting two new pillows.
    I walk 5-6 miles a day and volunteer three days a week doing stuff outside, so that doesnít work for me!

  29. #29
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    500mg of effervescent paracetamol and I listen to rain sounds on an app called relax melodies all night.

    If my sleep is really off then phenergan antihistamine but that's promethazine so not much help to you.

  30. #30
    Master Routers's Avatar
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    Often wake in the early hours over-thinking work related issues.
    I have found the Boots Sleepease one a night work well for me.
    Need to ask at the pharmacistís counter for them.

  31. #31
    This is what stands out to me - "wake up around 4am feeling anxious and uneasy".

    It does sound like your sleep problem is psychological and so while the previous recommendations might work, they won't address the cause.

    A GP sending you away with pills isn't the answer. Medication works in partnership with treatment. Best to go back to the GP and ask for a referral. No stigma in it. It's what the NHS is there for. Getting people better.

  32. #32
    Full spectrum cbd oil. Thank me later 👍

  33. #33
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldHooky View Post
    This is what stands out to me - "wake up around 4am feeling anxious and uneasy".

    It does sound like your sleep problem is psychological and so while the previous recommendations might work, they won't address the cause.

    A GP sending you away with pills isn't the answer. Medication works in partnership with treatment. Best to go back to the GP and ask for a referral. No stigma in it. It's what the NHS is there for. Getting people better.
    Whilst I agree, currently, trying to see your GP in person for something like this is not going to happen.

    Lots of online advice and some on here.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  34. #34
    Master studly's Avatar
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    1. Wear a sleep mask
    2. Set an alarm and get up at the same time everyday
    3. Melatonin
    4. L-theanine
    5. Ashwagandha

    Alternatively












































































  35. #35
    Craftsman
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    I appreciate all the advice ,it's helpful to know that others are having similar issues .
    I had the same problem tonight ,sleep for couple of hours wake up feeling anxious and have to get up and try and relax and clear the mind (which is not going too well ) .It's very frustrating and quite upsetting to be honest ,it's more an anxiety problem keeping me awake rather than insomnia I feel ,I have talked to therapists about it and didn't really feel it helped ,tried various medications and again they mostly didn't help ,the only thing that really worked was diazepam which obviously can be very addictive and the doctor only prescribed for a short one off period.Not sure where to go from here ?

    Sent from my moto g(8) power using TZ-UK mobile app

  36. #36
    Iím not qualified to talk about this, but itís the Internet so letís ignore thatÖ

    With problems like this there is rarely one answer. Any form medication, prescribed or herbal, can only help manage symptoms and reduce the impact. Rarely do they Ďfixí anything.
    Equally, psychological concerns need time and focus to work though and try to find coping and calming measures, which is easier said than done when your brain is somewhat Ďbusyí so medicines / remedies can help you through this. The key, IMO, is working through potential sources of concerns and anxiety systemically and calmly, and trying to find ways of managing your feelings. There are many groups and services to help with this and find what works for you.

    Sleep is a bugger. It can be easy to worry about worrying. Youíre so worried about waking again you go to bed unconsciously expecting to wake up at a certain time, so you do. Itís like waking up early when you know you have something important on the next day, your brain sets an internal alarm. When you wake, your brain goes into overdrive, which is the opposite of what you need.

    Over time you need to find a way of breaking the cycle. Perhaps, if you wake at 4am, get out of bed and go and sit somewhere else in the house for a few minutes. It avoids you lying there worrying about not being asleep. Get up. Meditate, read something calming, look out of the window, anything non-stimulating just to focus on. Take a herbal remedy or tea if you find it helps. Then go back to bed.

    With all of this, breaking things into chunks to deal with and finding tools and techniques to get you through it will take time and experimentation. If nothing else, this thread shows youíre normal, so thatís one less thing to worry about.

  37. #37
    Master Rocket Man's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear your troubles OP.

    This is something I know a little about, both in a personal and a professional capacity.

    Circadian rhythms are central to good sleep and mood.

    One option would be to try a 'hard reset' of your circadian rhythms as described here:

    https://www.veale.co.uk/feature/wake...py-depression/

    https://www.veale.co.uk/wake-and-light-therapy/

    It's not an easy solution but an alternative to pills and if your sleep and mood are already dysregulated then it might be worth the effort.

    If you do decide to try it, or find another approach that works for you, then let us know how you get on.
    Last edited by Rocket Man; 14th June 2021 at 08:56.

  38. #38
    Like many others I can identify with these issues - it was a mixture of things for me but I'm getting a solid 6 hours on average at the moment. Like the OP it was always work related stress/anexity but I've found a few things helped me:


    - 10 mins of gentle stretching 15-20 mins before bed - I use the Nike app which guides you through what it calls "gentle unwind yoga". I used to sometime wake up with cramping and since doing this all those issues went away.
    - New mattress. I had an okay mattress, or so I thought. But I splashed out on a Nectar sleep memory foam one and it made a huge difference.

  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    Whilst I agree, currently, trying to see your GP in person for something like this is not going to happen.

    Lots of online advice and some on here.
    That's rather defeatist and not entirely true. It may be hard to get an appointment, but not impossible. Trying to solve a problem without a diagnosis. and instead self-diagnose isn't to be recommended. But each to their own.

  40. #40
    Master
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    If you can't fall asleep because you have too many thoughts or worries in your head, we've all been there, then a good idea is to write down the worry on paper and throw it in the bin or even write it down on some toilet paper and flush it down the loo. These little psychological tricks can work if your worry is not too substantial.

  41. #41
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldHooky View Post
    That's rather defeatist and not entirely true. It may be hard to get an appointment, but not impossible. Trying to solve a problem without a diagnosis. and instead self-diagnose isn't to be recommended. But each to their own.
    I didn't say 'without diagnosis', most GP's will speak over the phone before suggesting anything or calling in for an appointment.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  42. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK View Post
    I didn't say 'without diagnosis', most GP's will speak over the phone before suggesting anything or calling in for an appointment.
    Agreed.

    To clarify: the point I was making was following online advice and without a proper diagnosis isn't the best option.

  43. #43
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldHooky View Post
    Agreed.

    To clarify: the point I was making was following online advice and without a proper diagnosis isn't the best option.
    Of course.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  44. #44
    Master Rocket Man's Avatar
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    Just to say that I agree with the view that the OP should seek a GP consultation. Don't suffer in silence. Best of luck and I hope you get back on track soon.

    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

  45. #45
    I don't think there's a single cause, or indeed therefore a single solution. I wouldn't necessarily expect a quick solution either. When I was diagnosed with a coffee intolerance it took 6 weeks for the symptoms to die back down.

    You need to look at your diet very carefully. Take out, as much as possible, stimulants and spices, etc. For goodness sake try and remove processed food. Cook vegetables, eat fruit, drink water.

    Get a healthy dose of fresh air and exercise every day.

    Make an honest appraisal of what's causing stress and anxiety. Alcohol can be a vicious circle. (My autocorrect likes to suggest it's a viscous circle but hey ho.)

    I referred to my coffee intolerance above. When I was talking to the specialist at the time about skin rashes, flaking scalp, etc, I said "does that mean I can't have curry or coffee ever again?" He said something important: "of course not, eat what you like, you'll just still have an itchy head".

    So, you don't have to do any of these things, you'll probably still just have your problem though.

    [Just as an afterthought, I love my coffee, and got my system in balance at 2 x 10g coffees a day. I occasionally have more without issue sure, but compared to 6 x 15g I used to consume, it's a massive difference without abstaining altogether.]

  46. #46
    Master
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    In my capacity in the NHS, I have come across Sleepio, a CBT- based sleep improvement programme. My wife has also successfully used it when her sleep was poor.

    https://www.sleepio.com/

    Hope that helps.

  47. #47
    Master Rocket Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apm101 View Post
    In my capacity in the NHS, I have come across Sleepio, a CBT- based sleep improvement programme. My wife has also successfully used it when her sleep was poor.

    https://www.sleepio.com/

    Hope that helps.
    Second this, it's a really good app with a solid evidence base.

  48. #48
    Journeyman
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    It is simultaneously reassuring and disheartening to know so many others suffer with sleep issues. I recently spoke to my GP about a similar issue and was given amitriptyline, which is in fact an anti depressant. So far, it doesnít seem to be doing much. Anybody else taken it for this purpose?

    Thanks for the Sleepio recommendation, Iíve already signed up!

  49. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by misterzero View Post
    I have developed a strange sleeping problem last few weeks ,I go to bed at usual time around 1/130 am and wake up around 4am feeling anxious and uneasy and I have to get up and try and relax reading or watching utube sometimes go back to sleep around 530/6am or else give up on sleep for the day .As you can imagine Iam feeling worse and worse over time ,I have always been a light sleeper but did not have problems like this before
    .Has anybody got some advice on how to get an uninterrupted night's sleep as this is very frustrating .I phoned my GP and she gave me promethazine which worked for two days and then made no difference ,Iam am reluctant to phone back up and get on stronger pills unless absolutely necessary. I have used various over the counter sleeping pills in the past and they don't really work for me ,tried propranolol ,magnesian glyconate and CBD in the past did not notice much difference .

    Sent from my moto g(8) power using TZ-UK mobile app
    Few questions for what reason do you go to bed so late? Is this like what you have always done? What time do you usually wake up? How much excerise do you get during the day? Do you have any naps during the day?


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

  50. #50
    Master Onelasttime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hhhh View Post
    Valerian is a natural herb that can be taken for both anxiety and insomnia. I find one pill very effective if I wake up in the night, and then struggle to get back to sleep due to the mind racing.
    I took two of my girlfriend's Valerian tablets years ago when I was in my 30s and suffering work stress and unable to sleep.

    I slept alright but by Christ, the next day was like walking through foggy mud. I just couldn't wake up.

    The next time, I took one and I just lay awake all night. I never tried 1 and a half

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