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Thread: Work - how old is 'too old'.

  1. #1
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    Work - how old is 'too old'.

    With the UK working population more likely to work into their late 60s and even 70s, at what stage do we feel someone is too old and gets implicitly discriminated against. For example someone who gets a director level role in their 40s, it is fairly normal for that to continue until mid fifties but (and an example) you don't see so many HR or IT directors in their 60s.

    This will no doubt change as people having longer careers becomes the norm - issue is of course who makes room for the youngsters coming through.

    Would be interested to get some thoughts.

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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    With the UK working population more likely to work into their late 60s and even 70s, at what stage do we feel someone is too old and gets implicitly discriminated against. For example someone who gets a director level role in their 40s, it is fairly normal for that to continue until mid fifties but (and an example) you don't see so many HR or IT directors in their 60s.

    This will no doubt change as people having longer careers becomes the norm - issue is of course who makes room for the youngsters coming through.

    Would be interested to get some thoughts.

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    Well, age discrimination is illegal so that shouldn't occur. Work as long as you are able and want to I guess. As to making room for youngsters, just make more businesses which is what has happened to date

  3. #3

    IMO

    Best to retire early, before it ever becomes a concern.

  4. #4
    Master OldHooky's Avatar
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    What I've noticed in the HRD space is that they typically either move into a more consultative role, or a boutique consultancy, or diversify more towards L&D and the CLO roles. In this way they're either seen as new thinkers or oracles.

    So perhaps diversification is the answer.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Case View Post
    Best to retire early, before it ever becomes a concern.
    +1, one of the rare occasions when I agree with Ally, I started at 16 and finished at 52, who wants to work into their 60s even if they are a director?

    On a more serious note, ageism in the workplace is a concern despite legislation to prevent it, it happens implicitly and that's the aspect that causes most problems.
    Last edited by walkerwek1958; 10th June 2021 at 21:50.

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    Hi Ryan, in my opinion senior managers/directors are routinely culled by their mid 50s. Youngsters are champing at the bit with higher energy levels and fresh ideas - they are also more accepting/malleable and cost less generally. CEO level is probably different in that they oversee and direct others utilising their experience and contact network. I would say people are safer either on the middle levels operationally or at the very top (seems to me that the most vulnerable are managers at regional level who in effect act as CEOs for their region but forget that the are still higher middle management from a national perspective- the national hierarchy are more brutal to their 'own'' than they are with staff at the coal face.
    Last edited by Suds; 10th June 2021 at 21:57.

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    Master Chewitt13's Avatar
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    I've been thinking about this lately, I've got a member of my team who is 72 and I'm worried about him, hes really good, really professional but at what age is the risk of him being in the office, working full time too great

    We cannot treat him unfairly but equally it can't go on forever.



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  8. #8
    Master unclealec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkerwek1958 View Post
    who wants to work into their 60s

    I do.

    I lasted less than a year of retirement. A combination of requests from former customers and a love for my work had me building a small workshop and taking on work again at the age of 70.
    Having cultivated a frugal lifestyle I certainly don't need more money.

  9. #9
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    I am 58 this month so retirement is getting more and more appealing. I don’t think I will be working much beyond 60. Although I work in a young persons’ industry, programming, I think us oldsters can still give the young ‘uns a run for their money, and I still enjoy the actual coding side of it.

  10. #10
    Master sish101's Avatar
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    Nobody wants to be rescued from a blazing building by a 60 year old fireman

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  11. #11
    Master unclealec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sish101 View Post
    Nobody wants to be rescued from a blazing building by a 60 year old fireman

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    I can just hear that conversation.

    " Oi! You with the breathing apparatus; how old are you?"
    "60. Why?"
    "Because I don't want to be rescued by a 60-yr-old fireman. Leave me here"

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chewitt13 View Post
    I've been thinking about this lately, I've got a member of my team who is 72 and I'm worried about him, hes really good, really professional but at what age is the risk of him being in the office, working full time too great

    We cannot treat him unfairly but equally it can't go on forever.



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    Don't understand, he's really good and really professional - what risk are you worried about? (Serious question btw)

  13. #13
    Master sish101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclealec View Post
    I can just hear that conversation.

    " Oi! You with the breathing apparatus; how old are you?"
    "60. Why?"
    "Because I don't want to be rescued by a 60-yr-old fireman. Leave me here"
    You'd be hard pushed at 60 to wear full BA and climb up the ladder, let alone sling anyone over your shoulder and carry them to safety.

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    Grand Master TheFlyingBanana's Avatar
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    There is a frightening (and apparently accurate) statistic for my profession - male headteachers who work until 65 have a life expectancy of 67.5 years.

    That is why most of us look to retire around 60 and either do something else, or some consultancy etc. Those who retire between 60 and 62 have an average life expectancy.

    I've just turned fifty, and do not intend to go beyond 60.
    So clever my foot fell off.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclealec View Post
    I do.

    I lasted less than a year of retirement. A combination of requests from former customers and a love for my work had me building a small workshop and taking on work again at the age of 70.
    Having cultivated a frugal lifestyle I certainly don't need more money.
    Alec, you’re an expert (allegedly) in your field and you’re doing something you enjoy, I fully understand your decision to carry on buddy.

  16. #16
    Master unclealec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sish101 View Post
    You'd be hard pushed at 60 to wear full BA and climb up the ladder, let alone sling anyone over your shoulder and carry them to safety.

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    I can't argue with that, but firefighters are not the definintive job to determine age-related retirement. There are many trades that require a degree of fitness; fitness tends (as I know to my cost) to lessen with age. However, many occupations are more amenable to the older person.
    If only I were in one. After a hard day at the workshop, I am having to dose myself with Hecks Anti-Ache medicine. But some days I come home as fresh as when I went.
    I try when possible to sit or lie when working. It makes the day more enjoyable.

  17. #17
    Master OldHooky's Avatar
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    Undertakers. A job for life.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by sish101 View Post
    You'd be hard pushed at 60 to wear full BA and climb up the ladder, let alone sling anyone over your shoulder and carry them to safety.

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    This is a good point because it illustrates the futility of the question. There is no one-size-fits-all answer. I know many 60 year olds who would be capable of this...and of course, many more who wouldn't. I'd imagine it's the same across all professions. An inability to do the job at the right level will come at different times for different people.

  19. #19
    Grand Master GraniteQuarry's Avatar
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    I’m 50 and currently dealing with two very wealthy business associates who are hands-on fully in charge of their respective companies... ages 73 and 77.

  20. #20
    Master Chewitt13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suds View Post
    Don't understand, he's really good and really professional - what risk are you worried about? (Serious question btw)
    Because the stark reality is that a 72 year old is more of a health risk than a 40 year old.

    He is energised and can teach the younger lot a few things.

    But having a friend found dead at his desk a few weeks ago aged 53, unfortunately we are all time constrained

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  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Suds View Post
    Hi Ryan, in my opinion senior managers/directors are routinely culled by their mid 50s. Youngsters are champing at the bit with higher energy levels and fresh ideas - they are also more accepting/malleable and cost less generally. CEO level is probably different in that they oversee and direct others utilising their experience and contact network. I would say people are safer either on the middle levels operationally or at the very top (seems to me that the most vulnerable are managers at regional level who in effect act as CEOs for their region but forget that the are still higher middle management from a national perspective- the national hierarchy are more brutal to their 'own'' than they are with staff at the coal face.
    I agree, I saw blokes in their 50s lose their energy and desire and chomped at the bit to get their jobs and swore it wouldn't happen to me, but it . Its job specific , high pressure not particularly enjoyable far easier to have enough than if you are an artist in your own studio at home .



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  22. #22
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chewitt13 View Post
    Because the stark reality is that a 72 year old is more of a health risk than a 40 year old.

    He is energised and can teach the younger lot a few things.

    But having a friend found dead at his desk a few weeks ago aged 53, unfortunately we are all time constrained

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    Sorry to hear that. Must have been terrible.

  23. #23
    I think that they should reconsider the retirement age, this would increase the opportunities for the young.

    I’m 63 there is no way I’m doing this for another four years, this is becoming a regular conversation at home,

  24. #24
    Grand Master AlphaOmega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingBanana View Post
    There is a frightening (and apparently accurate) statistic for my profession - male headteachers who work until 65 have a life expectancy of 67.5 years.
    Have you considered that it's the two and half years of retirement that is the problem?

    I'm only half joking.

    I have a theory that some people give up on life when they retire - it's as if they've finished with it.

    I can see the attraction though.

  25. #25
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    In no particular order:-

    1. Job/role dependant.

    2. Lifestyle and expected lifestyle beyond.

    3. Pension arrangements.

    4. Attention span/hobbies/boredom threshold.

    5. 'Old bloke syndrome' plays its part (like it or not).

    6. Retirement form one thing can lead to another and ongoing fulfilment.

    7. How conscious you are about getting older and the closing window/bucket list equation.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  26. #26
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    Work - how old is 'too old'.

    I finally retired at 67 as a senior manager in the engineering sector.
    I would have left a couple of years earlier but the business was going through a major change process and I was persuaded (mostly by increasing financial inducements) to stay on and guide the company through that.

    To be perfectly honest , for the last year or so I was aware that I was not fully enthused and was to some extent just going through the motions.

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingBanana View Post
    There is a frightening (and apparently accurate) statistic for my profession - male headteachers who work until 65 have a life expectancy of 67.5 years.

    That is why most of us look to retire around 60 and either do something else, or some consultancy etc. Those who retire between 60 and 62 have an average life expectancy.

    I've just turned fifty, and do not intend to go beyond 60.

    The implication of this would be that working between the ages of 60 and 65 reduces life expectancy by about 15 years. Do you have the source for this? If true, it's incredibly frightening? I suspect it might be one of those tales based on a sample of two though!

  28. #28
    Master sish101's Avatar
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    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions...rement-crisis/

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  29. #29
    I am 52. Up until the age of 50 I was keen and still chomping at the bit to excel in my field.

    How things change. I am now 52 and with a big company reorganisation I have lost the energy to perform.

    I don’t think it is about the reorganisation either. Just the evolution of time and my outlook is now more around how I enjoy my hopefully 20+ years of good health I may have, where I can travel the world and be free to do what I want without being chained to the company laptop.

    I have to admire those in their 50s who still have the drive and desire at work. But, there is more to life than squirrelling away more money than you can ever spend, and at the next round of redundancy, which seem to come thick and fast these days, both my hands are going up.

  30. #30
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    Sorry to digress, but is unclealec a farmer?

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    With the UK working population more likely to work into their late 60s and even 70s, at what stage do we feel someone is too old and gets implicitly discriminated against. For example someone who gets a director level role in their 40s, it is fairly normal for that to continue until mid fifties but (and an example) you don't see so many HR or IT directors in their 60s.

    This will no doubt change as people having longer careers becomes the norm - issue is of course who makes room for the youngsters coming through.

    Would be interested to get some thoughts.

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    I suppose work as long as you are happy enough to work and retire when you have the pension to enjoy it. I have seen far too many people retire early in their 50s and even 60s only to return to work a year or two later because they are either bored out of their minds or need something to focus on in life. Also plenty of people pass away not long after they retire be it in their 50s or 60s Its frightening to see people who have retired and a few years later have turned to drink or feel themselves isolated because presumably what drove them in life is no longer there and I am not just talking about older people but people who retire in their 50s too.

    As a side issue what do all these directors that you speak of do post retirement in their 50s?

  32. #32
    Grand Master magirus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sish101 View Post
    Nobody wants to be rescued from a blazing building by a 60 year old fireman
    There was talk of extending our retirement age to 60. I was a lot fitter than most, club runner 53/54 min 10 miler, mountain biking, knock about on a road bike at 20+mph blah blah... Left at 50 after 32yrs, I was starting to feel the strain, as fit as you are for your age it's a heavy physical job at the pointy end. However I'm sure there are many occupations that can be done well into the 60s, 70s and even beyond. Much better being retired though! Magirus, aged 63 & 25/26ths yrs.
    F.T.F.A.

  33. #33
    Master Ruggertech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdh1 View Post
    The implication of this would be that working between the ages of 60 and 65 reduces life expectancy by about 15 years. Do you have the source for this? If true, it's incredibly frightening? I suspect it might be one of those tales based on a sample of two though!
    I dont know about just the five years, but back in about 1990 I was told by a pension expert that the average life expectancy for a male retiring at 65 was 67, and for a male retiring at 50 it was 80. He said that for many occupations after 50 you were in a downward health cycle due to either stress, physical exertion, or shift patterns (or any combination of these) depending on the job you did. So yes, TFB's figures sound very plausible.

  34. #34
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    I’m 60 next month and work harder than most in my job half my age, I’m far from retirement. My partners step father is 76 and he bikes 40 mins to and from work every day. Age is just a number and retirement isn’t an option for a lot of people. Personally I don’t want to give up, I run about like a 40 year old and if I retire I’d become lazy and die through boredom.


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  35. #35
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    As others have mentioned (I've been thinking long and hard about my own retirements plans lately) there are too many variables. Mainly he individual person, type of work and that particular persons interest in still going it. Sorry that is probably not very helpful. I'm also unable to decide when I want to retire or how much I want as a retirement pot and/or income.

  36. #36
    Master murkeywaters's Avatar
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    I kind of retired at 36, sounds strange but thats how its feels.

    I left full time employment to work for myself, since stepping away from being employed and all the things that come with it like having a boss, being told how much holiday a year you can take, when to start and finish etc, they were the parts that made it feel like work, the earning money bit is fine, you can take that into any age you wish as long as you enjoy how you make that money.

    With that, I have learnt and done quite well in completely different fields of business, some have been successful but started to drag like a job after a while, once that feeling starts I know its not long before I'm moving onto something else that peaks my interest.

    It all comes down to freedom for me, If I popped off this planet at 76 I hope to say I enjoyed those 40 years rather than the 6 years I probably would have had if I stayed employed to 70.

    Remember, you can always earn a few quid but you can never get time back.
    Last edited by murkeywaters; 11th June 2021 at 00:30.

  37. #37
    Grand Master hogthrob's Avatar
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    Is a fit and healthy 70yo at much greater health risk than an overweight, inactive 50yo smoker or drinker? It depends a lot on the individual. Not everyone stays fit, active, healthy and mentally alert into their 70s, but many do.

  38. #38
    Master vRSG60's Avatar
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    We should be retiring at 60.


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  39. #39
    Master
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    Age discrimination does occur and I’m guilty of it in the past when I thought I had a good handle on my role. Deep down I guess I didn’t want somebody with more experience to manage and now I’ve become the person I’d discriminate against.

    So, 60 it is. Out, done and picking g up the hobbies I planned for but never had time.

  40. #40
    Master pacifichrono's Avatar
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    Age takes its toll very differently from person to person. My CEO boss from 42 years ago is still working effectively as a C-suite consultant at 96! I retired at 62 with still a lot left in the tank. Conversely, I've worked with colleagues who were obviously "finished" in their 50s.

    Age discrimination is completely different: it really depends on the company culture, the industry, the profession and its dependence on technological change, and the particular people and situation within your 'department.'

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaOmega View Post
    Have you considered that it's the two and half years of retirement that is the problem?

    I'm only half joking.

    I have a theory that some people give up on life when they retire - it's as if they've finished with it.

    I can see the attraction though.

    I have seen stats (in a Wealth at Work seminar), that showed the earlier you retired, the earlier you passed away..

    sorry no link or source for these 'stats'..

  42. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by hogthrob View Post
    Is a fit and healthy 70yo at much greater health risk than an overweight, inactive 50yo smoker or drinker? It depends a lot on the individual. Not everyone stays fit, active, healthy and mentally alert into their 70s, but many do.
    That's not in question, but what is up for debate is employers think differently, and it's not just about health. They don't want someone who 'has seen it all before ' and questions things, they just want youthful energy

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  43. #43
    Final salary scheme, George Osborne changing the rules , companies literally doubling your pension so you remove it

    That's golden ticket land, and I benefitted from it, able to retire at 55. Very very lucky, now kids will work until 70 to get a state pension and be lucky I'd they have 100 a month top up from private pension. We've been very very fortunate to benefit form final salary schemes

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  44. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingBanana View Post
    There is a frightening (and apparently accurate) statistic for my profession - male headteachers who work until 65 have a life expectancy of 67.5 years.

    That is why most of us look to retire around 60 and either do something else, or some consultancy etc. Those who retire between 60 and 62 have an average life expectancy.

    I've just turned fifty, and do not intend to go beyond 60.
    Think that's an urban myth.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18952037

  45. #45
    Grand Master TheFlyingBanana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingstepper View Post
    Thanks for that, really quite reassuring. It’s interesting how these myths take hold. I was first told about it years ago by a friend who is an experienced Headteacher- and I do recall he showed me some supporting data that certainly appeared credible.

    That said, I still don’t plan to do my role much beyond 60 at the max - teaching and education is increasingly a young persons game, and I can’t think of many, or barely any heads who are still doing the job at 65.
    So clever my foot fell off.

  46. #46
    Master Lampoc's Avatar
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    I'm looking forward to the day when we base our society on "Logan's Run".

  47. #47
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    As has been mentioned I think a lot depends on the job and the person.

    I work front line for the Ambulance service with all that that entails. My state pension age is I believe 68, since 2015 NHS pensions are now linked to state pension so i can take neither before 68 without penalty. If state pension goes up so does my work pension. By the time I reach state pension age I'll have nearly 50 years service on the Ambulances. I'm mid 30s now and can feel the toll years of long shifts, nights, shift turn arounds and physically demanding work have taken on my body. Do I think I'll make it to 68 in this job? Nope. Do I have the option to retire earlier? Yes at huge financial penalty.

    Some jobs you can do well into your 60s, some you can't. Not sure retirement age should be a blanket age for everyone.

  48. #48
    Master Lammylee's Avatar
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    Work - how old is 'too old'.

    My job is physically demanding (commercial gardening for 31 years) I have made plans to be part time at 60 and finish completely at 65. I am currently 48 and won’t be as strong as now forever!

  49. #49
    If our governments were a private company, I'm sure they would end up in court, we put money in on the basis that we will be able to start taking it out at a certain age, then they change it. I read somewhere that for every year they raise the State pension age they save billions, as so many don't live to claim it or just die. I think we should be able to opt out, but have to show that we have made other arrangements, but I have ssas so would say that.

  50. #50
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    i think the biggest decision affecting retirement age is financial circumstances , not necessarily age related. The vast majority of people have to keep working as long as they can.
    Cheers..
    Jase

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