Work - how old is 'too old'.

[ryanb741]

With the UK working population more likely to work into their late 60s and even 70s, at what stage do we feel someone is too old and gets implicitly discriminated against. For example someone who gets a director level role in their 40s, it is fairly normal for that to continue until mid fifties but (and an example) you don't see so many HR or IT directors in their 60s.

This will no doubt change as people having longer careers becomes the norm - issue is of course who makes room for the youngsters coming through.

Would be interested to get some thoughts.

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[redmonaco]

With the UK working population more likely to work into their late 60s and even 70s, at what stage do we feel someone is too old and gets implicitly discriminated against. For example someone who gets a director level role in their 40s, it is fairly normal for that to continue until mid fifties but (and an example) you don't see so many HR or IT directors in their 60s.

This will no doubt change as people having longer careers becomes the norm - issue is of course who makes room for the youngsters coming through.

Would be interested to get some thoughts.

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Well, age discrimination is illegal so that shouldn't occur. Work as long as you are able and want to I guess. As to making room for youngsters, just make more businesses which is what has happened to date

[Justin Case]

Best to retire early, before it ever becomes a concern.

[OldHooky]

What I've noticed in the HRD space is that they typically either move into a more consultative role, or a boutique consultancy, or diversify more towards L&D and the CLO roles. In this way they're either seen as new thinkers or oracles.

So perhaps diversification is the answer.

[Tatters]

I am 58 this month so retirement is getting more and more appealing. I don’t think I will be working much beyond 60. Although I work in a young persons’ industry, programming, I think us oldsters can still give the young ‘uns a run for their money, and I still enjoy the actual coding side of it.

[walkerwek1958]

Best to retire early, before it ever becomes a concern.

+1, one of the rare occasions when I agree with Ally, I started at 16 and finished at 52, who wants to work into their 60s even if they are a director?

On a more serious note, ageism in the workplace is a concern despite legislation to prevent it, it happens implicitly and that's the aspect that causes most problems.

[unclealec]

who wants to work into their 60s

I do.

I lasted less than a year of retirement. A combination of requests from former customers and a love for my work had me building a small workshop and taking on work again at the age of 70.
Having cultivated a frugal lifestyle I certainly don't need more money.

[walkerwek1958]

I do.

I lasted less than a year of retirement. A combination of requests from former customers and a love for my work had me building a small workshop and taking on work again at the age of 70.
Having cultivated a frugal lifestyle I certainly don't need more money.

Alec, you’re an expert (allegedly) in your field and you’re doing something you enjoy, I fully understand your decision to carry on buddy.

[snowman]

I've worked in IT all my working life.

Even when I first started out, you'd hear claims that computers would soon mean we'd not have to work past 50 and would have huge amounts of leisure time.

Hasn't worked out that way.

In fact, a constant complaint I hear now is that with everything online, people have back to back meetings from 8 to 6 or even later with no breaks between them at all (not realistic, I know, but certainly people aren't getting decent breaks for lunch).

I'm lucky, I more or less work part time and definitely decide (most of the time) when to work and when not to, but the treadmill seems worse today than when I started work.

My father retired on a good, final-salary pension at 60 (after 'winding down' with reducing hours over the previous 12 months) - There's zero chance of me being able to do that next year and I'm probably in a better position financially than the majority of the workforce (if not exactly top 5%!).

I guess what you expect of 'retirement' depends on when you would want to and feel you could afford to do it, I'm pretty sure I couldn't afford to fill my days with interesting things on whatever pension I might get right now - Having a job actually helps fill the time, with the bonus of bringing in some income.

A friend of mine did pretty well for himself and retired at 50, but I wonder what he finds to do with his days...

M

[tixntox]

When you don't enjoy it any more, stop! That doesn't just apply to work. I have changed career three times in my life and enjoyed the change each time. I fully retired at 69 and thoroughly enjoy that too (when the sun shines!).

[MartynJC (UK)]

... but I wonder what he finds to do with his days...

M

You'd be surprised what a long list of chores I have from my "better half". Life doesn't stop when you clock off from the treadmill, there now seems endless other things to fill the time. I must say it is fantastic! (My working life has always been it Tech too btw)

[Chris_in_the_UK]

You'd be surprised what a long list of chores I have from my "better half". Life doesn't stop when you clock off from the treadmill, there now seems endless other things to fill the time. I must say it is fantastic! (My working life has always been it Tech too btw)

My experience is the same Martyn - I do not miss work at all.

[snowman]

You'd be surprised what a long list of chores I have from my "better half". Life doesn't stop when you clock off from the treadmill, there now seems endless other things to fill the time. I must say it is fantastic! (My working life has always been it Tech too btw)

I guess those 'chores' are part of the reason I see little appeal in retirement just yet!

My friend quite quickly returned to doing consultancy work - As I know he doesn't need the money, I guess he found that there wasn't enough interesting stuff to do to fill the days.

If I had a large pot of cash, for sure I'd stop working and spend most of the year skiing, diving or visiting places I haven't yet been, but I'll never be in that position, so I'm happy to carry on working (to some degree) for the next few years while I can still pay the bills with it and let the pension pot build up a little more.

I've never been a 'live to work' type, but I'm practical enough to know that retirement at an early age wouldn't have been a joy for me.

I have, though, a massive collection of unread books that will be consumed once I do jack it in for good.

M

[Suds]

Hi Ryan, in my opinion senior managers/directors are routinely culled by their mid 50s. Youngsters are champing at the bit with higher energy levels and fresh ideas - they are also more accepting/malleable and cost less generally. CEO level is probably different in that they oversee and direct others utilising their experience and contact network. I would say people are safer either on the middle levels operationally or at the very top (seems to me that the most vulnerable are managers at regional level who in effect act as CEOs for their region but forget that the are still higher middle management from a national perspective- the national hierarchy are more brutal to their 'own'' than they are with staff at the coal face.

[Daveya.]

Hi Ryan, in my opinion senior managers/directors are routinely culled by their mid 50s. Youngsters are champing at the bit with higher energy levels and fresh ideas - they are also more accepting/malleable and cost less generally. CEO level is probably different in that they oversee and direct others utilising their experience and contact network. I would say people are safer either on the middle levels operationally or at the very top (seems to me that the most vulnerable are managers at regional level who in effect act as CEOs for their region but forget that the are still higher middle management from a national perspective- the national hierarchy are more brutal to their 'own'' than they are with staff at the coal face.

I agree, I saw blokes in their 50s lose their energy and desire and chomped at the bit to get their jobs and swore it wouldn't happen to me, but it . Its job specific , high pressure not particularly enjoyable far easier to have enough than if you are an artist in your own studio at home .



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[Chewitt13]

I've been thinking about this lately, I've got a member of my team who is 72 and I'm worried about him, hes really good, really professional but at what age is the risk of him being in the office, working full time too great

We cannot treat him unfairly but equally it can't go on forever.



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[Suds]

I've been thinking about this lately, I've got a member of my team who is 72 and I'm worried about him, hes really good, really professional but at what age is the risk of him being in the office, working full time too great

We cannot treat him unfairly but equally it can't go on forever.



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Don't understand, he's really good and really professional - what risk are you worried about? (Serious question btw)

[Chewitt13]

Don't understand, he's really good and really professional - what risk are you worried about? (Serious question btw)

Because the stark reality is that a 72 year old is more of a health risk than a 40 year old.

He is energised and can teach the younger lot a few things.

But having a friend found dead at his desk a few weeks ago aged 53, unfortunately we are all time constrained

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[wileeeeeey]

Because the stark reality is that a 72 year old is more of a health risk than a 40 year old.

He is energised and can teach the younger lot a few things.

But having a friend found dead at his desk a few weeks ago aged 53, unfortunately we are all time constrained

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Sorry to hear that. Must have been terrible.

[adrianw]

I think that they should reconsider the retirement age, this would increase the opportunities for the young.

I’m 63 there is no way I’m doing this for another four years, this is becoming a regular conversation at home,

[Itsguy]

The trouble with getting older is that you’ve done some things so many times that you know exactly how to do them, just when you really can’t be bothered to any more. You can also start to feel that you don’t really care about the strongly held but half thought through opinions of the millennials. To an objective observer, this could be interpreted as ‘lacking drive’ and ‘being out of touch’. It does seem to creep up in your 50s, just when the idea of a finish line appears over the horizon. The lockdown certainly hasn’t helped; where there used to be momentum, I’m now feeling a worrying amount of inertia.

[Suds]

Seems the reality is that millennials will spend the last 15-20 years of their working age lives either forcibly self-employed, working in a supermarket, or unemployed?

[mjc1216]

Be careful what you wish for...i was lucky to retire at 50 and for 5 years i did what i wanted...travelled the world lived a few months of the year in Spain or Oz but towards the end what do you get up for...another day in the sun...another round of golf/cycle ride read another book every week.

So i went back to work part time after 5 years and as long as i have good health i will never retire again...i have the right work/life balance and yes i am lucky that i don't need to work.

Another good friend of mine retired at 63 and he was pulling his hair out after a year and wished he hadn't done it.

[robert75]

Be careful what you wish for...i was lucky to retire at 50 and for 5 years i did what i wanted...travelled the world lived a few months of the year in Spain or Oz but towards the end what do you get up for...another day in the sun...another round of golf/cycle ride read another book every week.

So i went back to work part time after 5 years and as long as i have good health i will never retire again...i have the right work/life balance and yes i am lucky that i don't need to work.

Another good friend of mine retired at 63 and he was pulling his hair out after a year and wished he hadn't done it.

Met far too many people exactly the same. The amount of people I have seen over the past few years who leading up to retirement were counting the days only to see them back in work within 2 years.

It’s all down to what the individual wants I don’t think there are any hard fast rules.

[sish101]

Nobody wants to be rescued from a blazing building by a 60 year old fireman

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[unclealec]

Nobody wants to be rescued from a blazing building by a 60 year old fireman

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I can just hear that conversation.

" Oi! You with the breathing apparatus; how old are you?"
"60. Why?"
"Because I don't want to be rescued by a 60-yr-old fireman. Leave me here"

[sish101]

I can just hear that conversation.

" Oi! You with the breathing apparatus; how old are you?"
"60. Why?"
"Because I don't want to be rescued by a 60-yr-old fireman. Leave me here"

You'd be hard pushed at 60 to wear full BA and climb up the ladder, let alone sling anyone over your shoulder and carry them to safety.

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[unclealec]

You'd be hard pushed at 60 to wear full BA and climb up the ladder, let alone sling anyone over your shoulder and carry them to safety.

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I can't argue with that, but firefighters are not the definintive job to determine age-related retirement. There are many trades that require a degree of fitness; fitness tends (as I know to my cost) to lessen with age. However, many occupations are more amenable to the older person.
If only I were in one. After a hard day at the workshop, I am having to dose myself with Hecks Anti-Ache medicine. But some days I come home as fresh as when I went.
I try when possible to sit or lie when working. It makes the day more enjoyable.

[OldHooky]

Undertakers. A job for life.

[Jdh1]

You'd be hard pushed at 60 to wear full BA and climb up the ladder, let alone sling anyone over your shoulder and carry them to safety.

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This is a good point because it illustrates the futility of the question. There is no one-size-fits-all answer. I know many 60 year olds who would be capable of this...and of course, many more who wouldn't. I'd imagine it's the same across all professions. An inability to do the job at the right level will come at different times for different people.

[valleywatch]

I retired last year, aged 60.

Personally....it was the best thing I've ever done! I just wish I could have afforded to retire earlier.

We are all massively different....so have differently views on life, money, on?....... everything really!

I think lots of people would love to retire earlier, they don't though, as they simply cant afford to.

Again, lots of people , dread the thought of retirement...we are all different, all jobs are different, some involve manual work, shift work, lots of stress etc etc. No two jobs and no two people are the same.

I worked as a train driver, lots of stupid shifts and working patterns...I don't miss a second of it!

Horses for courses!

[mk1974]

You'd be hard pushed at 60 to wear full BA and climb up the ladder, let alone sling anyone over your shoulder and carry them to safety.

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I’d of been hard pushed at 30


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[Wolfie]

You'd be hard pushed at 60 to wear full BA and climb up the ladder, let alone sling anyone over your shoulder and carry them to safety.

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Im having a huge house renovation and the builders Dad is my bricky…. He’s 68 is a proper craftsman and grafts…. Maybe an exception? He’d chuck anyone on this thread over his shoulder

[TheFlyingBanana]

There is a frightening (and apparently accurate) statistic for my profession - male headteachers who work until 65 have a life expectancy of 67.5 years.

That is why most of us look to retire around 60 and either do something else, or some consultancy etc. Those who retire between 60 and 62 have an average life expectancy.

I've just turned fifty, and do not intend to go beyond 60.

[AlphaOmega]

There is a frightening (and apparently accurate) statistic for my profession - male headteachers who work until 65 have a life expectancy of 67.5 years.

Have you considered that it's the two and half years of retirement that is the problem?

I'm only half joking.

I have a theory that some people give up on life when they retire - it's as if they've finished with it.

I can see the attraction though.

[Chris_in_the_UK]

In no particular order:-

1. Job/role dependant.

2. Lifestyle and expected lifestyle beyond.

3. Pension arrangements.

4. Attention span/hobbies/boredom threshold.

5. 'Old bloke syndrome' plays its part (like it or not).

6. Retirement form one thing can lead to another and ongoing fulfilment.

7. How conscious you are about getting older and the closing window/bucket list equation.

[bry nylon]

Have you considered that it's the two and half years of retirement that is the problem?

I'm only half joking.

I have a theory that some people give up on life when they retire - it's as if they've finished with it.

I can see the attraction though.

I have seen stats (in a Wealth at Work seminar), that showed the earlier you retired, the earlier you passed away..

sorry no link or source for these 'stats'..

[Jdh1]

There is a frightening (and apparently accurate) statistic for my profession - male headteachers who work until 65 have a life expectancy of 67.5 years.

That is why most of us look to retire around 60 and either do something else, or some consultancy etc. Those who retire between 60 and 62 have an average life expectancy.

I've just turned fifty, and do not intend to go beyond 60.

The implication of this would be that working between the ages of 60 and 65 reduces life expectancy by about 15 years. Do you have the source for this? If true, it's incredibly frightening? I suspect it might be one of those tales based on a sample of two though!

[Ruggertech]

The implication of this would be that working between the ages of 60 and 65 reduces life expectancy by about 15 years. Do you have the source for this? If true, it's incredibly frightening? I suspect it might be one of those tales based on a sample of two though!

I dont know about just the five years, but back in about 1990 I was told by a pension expert that the average life expectancy for a male retiring at 65 was 67, and for a male retiring at 50 it was 80. He said that for many occupations after 50 you were in a downward health cycle due to either stress, physical exertion, or shift patterns (or any combination of these) depending on the job you did. So yes, TFB's figures sound very plausible.

[Kingstepper]

There is a frightening (and apparently accurate) statistic for my profession - male headteachers who work until 65 have a life expectancy of 67.5 years.

That is why most of us look to retire around 60 and either do something else, or some consultancy etc. Those who retire between 60 and 62 have an average life expectancy.

I've just turned fifty, and do not intend to go beyond 60.

Think that's an urban myth.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18952037

[TheFlyingBanana]

Think that's an urban myth.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18952037

Thanks for that, really quite reassuring. It’s interesting how these myths take hold. I was first told about it years ago by a friend who is an experienced Headteacher- and I do recall he showed me some supporting data that certainly appeared credible.

That said, I still don’t plan to do my role much beyond 60 at the max - teaching and education is increasingly a young persons game, and I can’t think of many, or barely any heads who are still doing the job at 65.

[Lampoc]

I'm looking forward to the day when we base our society on "Logan's Run".

[magirus]

Nobody wants to be rescued from a blazing building by a 60 year old fireman

There was talk of extending our retirement age to 60. I was a lot fitter than most, club runner 53/54 min 10 miler, mountain biking, knock about on a road bike at 20+mph blah blah... Left at 50 after 32yrs, I was starting to feel the strain, as fit as you are for your age it's a heavy physical job at the pointy end. However I'm sure there are many occupations that can be done well into the 60s, 70s and even beyond. Much better being retired though! Magirus, aged 63 & 25/26ths yrs.

[chrisparker]

Nobody wants to be rescued from a blazing building by a 60 year old fireman

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Age has nothing to do with it. I’d bet 60 year old Gary Lineker is faster up a ladder than James Corden.

My parents, turning 70 this year are members of the local Rambling club, cycle a lot and are member of the gym. They’re in better shape than many 40 year olds I know. Both are retired but absolutely capable of holding down a job if they wish. My in-laws (who are younger), not so much.

[julian2002]

As someone who made some dubious life choices in my 20's and 30's with some severe financial repercussions (be careful who you marry kids) I cannot realistically see myself retiring at the traditional age or in the traditional manner.
I'm hoping that I can 'retire' by downsizing my house and doing consultancy / contracting when necessary while keeping my hand in working on personal projects. Luckily I'm in an industry that can accommodate this.
Failing this, I'll see you from behind the till in Tesco.

[Daveya.]

Age has nothing to do with it. I’d bet 60 year old Gary Lineker is faster up a ladder than James Corden.

My parents, turning 70 this year are members of the local Rambling club, cycle a lot and are member of the gym. They’re in better shape than many 40 year olds I know. Both are retired but absolutely capable of holding down a job if they wish. My in-laws (who are younger), not so much.

Age does have something to do with it, whether people want to accept that is not the issue. No one questions that some 60 years can be fitter than some 40 year olds, but an organisation cannot base policies on a few outliers

Fact is MOST 60 years old aren't as fit as SOME 40 year olds

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[Kingstepper]

Age does have something to do with it, whether people want to accept that is not the issue. No one questions that some 60 years can be fitter than some 40 year olds, but an organisation cannot base policies on a few outliers

Fact is MOST 60 years old aren't as fit as SOME 40 year olds

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Also, Fact is MOST 60 years old are as fit as SOME 40 year olds

[Daveya.]

Also, Fact is MOST 60 years old are as fit as SOME 40 year olds

Indeed, but as someone has already said generally an employer will assume the contrary unless proven otherwise

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[chrisparker]

Age does have something to do with it, whether people want to accept that is not the issue. No one questions that some 60 years can be fitter than some 40 year olds, but an organisation cannot base policies on a few outliers

Organisations shouldn't be making blanket policies based on age. Fitness is only one factor, experience, knowledge and contacts can be more valuable to an organisation. Many people give their lives to a company, the least a business can do is assess a member of staff's ability to work on an individual basis. Can you imagine Man Utd telling Sir Alex he has to leave on his 60th birthday because they're replacing him with a fitter 40 year old.

[Daveya.]

Organisations shouldn't be making blanket policies based on age. Fitness is only one factor, experience, knowledge and contacts can be more valuable to an organisation. Many people give their lives to a company, the least a business can do is assess a member of staff's ability to work on an individual basis. Can you imagine Man Utd telling Sir Alex he has to leave on his 60th birthday because they're replacing him with a fitter 40 year old.

I agree, and they won't be policies , but that won't stop directors elbowing people out with dodgy offers of 6 months notice or they will be managed

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