Reply With QuoteIt’s an auction, you won’t know whether it’s cheap or not until it ends?Originally Posted by bitt3n
£3.3k at the moment…
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Omega-Spe...orig_cvip=true
no DON bezel. the caseback seems to have surprisingly little wear for such an old watch. owner not responding to questions. a couple people retracted their bids. 2K GBP at the moment.
Last edited by bitt3n; 16th September 2024 at 10:20.
It’s an auction, you won’t know whether it’s cheap or not until it ends?
£3.3k at the moment…
Sold for £4100.
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I bought it. £4100 seemed low to me even if the bezel is wrong
this is where I sit back and with mounting horror read a string of posts from people far more knowledgeable than I, observing all the various flaws I didn't notice...
Well the good news is it is a CB case with the lug facets still in place, that's quite a rarity. There is something odd about the dial though, did you spot that? It has no T marks and no noticeable step. A '66 dial should a step and wide Ts, missing Ts may mean a later service dial, perhaps relumed. Not sure what to make of that since a regular service dial would have T marks if pre '97 and SL lume if later. Otherwise it seems like a decent deal. Looking again, he notes that the dial and crown are service items which seems the case, but the issues with the dial remain.
Last edited by Padders; 16th September 2024 at 09:35.
Didn’t the notes say Dial, Crown and Bezel Insert are all genuine Omega Service Parts.
It looks good to my eyes but I am far from an expert on all the nuances of vintage Speedies and SM300’s.
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Looks good, but as you say. It is remarkably cheap... Keen to know how this pans out
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The link now takes you to a different watch.
Indeed but it doesn't match what was there originally and in fact doesn't match any known service dial either so has presumably been relumed or somehow otherwise modified. It could be a recent or current service dial with lume work I guess.
Last edited by Padders; 16th September 2024 at 09:34.
Click the 'View original listing' option in blue top right.
It does if you just click on it from Tapatalk and let it open.
If you press and hold it and choose Safari it opens the page where you can see the original ad. Perhaps as I’d already looked at it d as I it’s in the cache (?)
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I didn't notice that. I'll see if I can get info from the seller.
this link should take you directly to the finished auction.
I can’t help with your questions, but it’s a sunning looking watch, I guess I would question the validity of the aging on the dial plots if it’s a relatively recent service dial, if it’s a old tritium service dial fair enough, but if it’s a SL one it may have been artificially aged.
Cheers..
Jase
Cheers. I didn't get that option the first time I tried. I thought something was amiss.
Looking at the pics it doesn't appear to be a stepped dial so would assume later service job.
Cheers,
Neil.
Is the movement serial number (which appears to be something like 25445820) a bit late for the model/age of watch?
Movement serial (if it is 2544xxx) seems ok, appears to fall at the end of the production of the 66.
https://speedmaster101.com/105-012/
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You are correct, the dial is an SL service dial with the lume reworked to match the hands.
The seller apparently buys and sells Speedmasters full time. He used to be a light and design guy for rock concerts but had a stroke and now has mobility problems. He called me (typing being difficult for him) and we talked about Speedmasters and his adventures trading them for almost an hour on the phone. (I didn't realize eBay gives out one's phone number.) He recently bought a 376.0822 (the Holy Grail) for 12K Euro in Italy and sold it for twice that in the US.
He bought this watch a couple months ago specifically to swap out the dial (which he says was a 65, with the T's spaced close together, and thus incorrect for this model) to another watch. He observed that the service replacement dial has long indices to match the original 321 dial rather than the shorter indices on more recent dials.
The watch was originally sold in Mexico (says he gets a lot of watches originally sold in Mexico and Cuba), and he bought it from a thrift store in Australia. He had the escapement wheel jewels lubricated when he swapped out the dial but it was not completely serviced. Says it runs within 4 or 5 seconds a day with good amplitude.
Gasket is new, original dust cover, hands, and pushers (said the pushers were worth 800 pounds apiece). Service crown with 32 teeth. Didn't think it was worth swapping for a vintage 24-tooth crown since they are 300-400 pounds, unless I wanted to also put in an original dial. I wouldn't be averse to putting in an original dial with some patina if it matches the hands, but original dials are pricey.
I should receive it today.
Last edited by bitt3n; 19th September 2024 at 10:28.
Sounds like a straight up guy. I hope for you the watch matches up.
quick update: Royal Mail has lost the parcel. Their inspectors are investigating and will report within 2 weeks.
It was supposedly insured for what I paid for it, but it was worth considerably more.
Damn. Hope it eventually turns up.
Speedmaster values are all over the place at the moment, with anything other than great examples generally selling weakly. It’s a good buyers market. I still think that a well listed ebay auction is very likely to reach fair market value. I don’t see why it would sell for considerably less than it’s worth.
Oh no, sorry to hear that, I hope it turns up.
Cheers..
Jase
Oh f@#k! That’s not good. Really hope it gets resolved quickly and you get what you paid for
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Pretty sure the buyer will be ok as I’m sure eBay or PayPal or credit card will refund, the seller I’m not so sure if will get any money back unless insurance elsewhere
I assume the watch would go through the eBay authentication process.
So is it lost on the way to eBay or from eBay to the buyer?
If it’s the later I assume eBay have to take the loss?
If anyone happens to know of or come across a similar model for sale (not necessarily a CB case) in the UK for a similar price (£4K), I would be delighted to hear about it. I'm not expecting good news about this one.
The seller told me it's insured for the full value of the sale.
That’s a good point hopefully for the seller after the authenticity
Supposedly it arrived at my residence when I wasn't there (but was not left at my residence, since it required a signature). The timeline is a bit involved:
1) I received an email notification it was on its way to me and would arrive 19 September
2) Knowing I would not be available to receive it, I filed an online request to have it held at the Bethnal Green Delivery Office instead of delivered to my residence.
3) I received an email saying it would be delivered to Bethnal Green on 19 September and I would receive an email notification when it was there.
4) Despite this, I received no such notification. Instead, I received a postcard at my residence on 19 September saying they tried to deliver it to my address.
5) Wanting to avoid a second failed delivery, I filed a second request to have it held. This time I chose the Cambridge Heath Post Office, hoping for a better result.
6) I received an email saying it would be delivered to the Cambridge Heath Post Office on 20 September, and I would be notified when it was available.
7) I never received said notification on 20 September.
8) I called Royal Mail on 21 September. They said it was at Bethnal Green.
9) I visited Bethnal Green. They said they didn't have it.
10) I visited Cambridge Heath. They said they didn't have it, and that I should come back the next day.
11) The next day they still didn't have it, and the person at the desk then claimed it could take 3-5 days for it to transfer between offices.
12) This seemed odd to me, given that these two locations are about 500 yards apart, so I called Royal Mail, who said that according to their records it was still at Bethnal Green, and they would have their postal inspectors look into it.
What a nightmare. Hopefully you get it figured out.
Sounds like it will eventually turn up
That sounds positive. Seems like you’ve got RM saying they do have it, they just don’t seem sure about where.
Better than them saying it’s been delivered and we’ve done our bit
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SD nearly always arrives
Crikey … hopefully it will appear as I assume it is RMSD.
Any update on this?
Was it found and delivered in the end?
Thanks
Mark
Yeah keen to know if this has been located, and if so, what your plans are- keep the watch as is or try and get a period-correct dial/bezel?
I finally received word from Royal Mail that the package has officially been declared lost.
I contacted eBay for a refund and they denied my refund request without explanation. Then they denied my appeal without explanation. Then I contacted them on Twitter, where they offered me the explanation that they will not process a refund on this order because the carrier attempted delivery.
Their full explanation follows.
So at this point according to eBay, despite the fact that RM officially admits to having lost the parcel, I am entirely at the seller's mercy. I'm now asking them to reconsider once more, but I have little hope for a different outcome. The package is only insured for £2500 (the max RM allows), so if eBay does not change its mind I'm in the position of asking the seller to find it in his heart to refund me directly £4100 for which he himself will be reimbursed only £2500 (assuming RM doesn't lose his refund check in the mail).I've taken a closer look at this case. While I definitely understand why you'd be frustrated in this situation as it is a lot of money, we would not be able to enforce the seller to issue a refund for this order.
When an order has an attempted delivery we consider this part of a successful delivery. This is because the seller has sent the item to your address and the courier services have attempted but were unable to deliver your order because no one was available at the time. If this happens the courier company may hold the item at the post office for collection and if uncollected the order will usually be returned to the sender or can sometimes be destroyed/liquidated by the courier. I understand that when you followed up with Royal Mail that advised they no longer have the parcel.
When this sort of thing happens it is difficult to confirm the delivery back to the sender as we often get no notification when it happens. Under these circumstances we are unable to hold the seller accountable. When we can't hold the seller accountable for the non-delivery of a parcel it means we're not able to issue a refund from them. This is part of their seller protection and one of the few instances where a seller can protect themselves. You can see this here in our Money-Back Guarantee help page> http://spkl.io/6014fPedC.
In this situation, I'd recommend to speak with your seller; because they were the ones to ship with Royal Mail, they may be able to claim insurance on a lost parcel and if they are reimbursed, they can provide a refund to you that way.
I know this isn't the response you were hoping for, but I hope it helps to explain our position clearly. Thanks for your time to reach out today
For what it's worth, the law appears clearly to indicate that the goods must be delivered into the hands of the buyer or the buyer's agent, and that an attempt at delivery is insufficient.
Under UK consumer law, the seller’s responsibility for the delivery of an item generally extends until the buyer has taken **physical possession** of the goods. This means that the law typically requires that the item is actually delivered to you, not just that an attempt at delivery was made. Here’s a breakdown of how this applies:
1. **Consumer Rights Act 2015**:
- The Act places the responsibility on the seller until the goods are delivered to the consumer. This means that the goods are considered delivered only when they reach the buyer’s address and are in their possession (or someone authorized to take possession on their behalf).
- An attempted delivery where the item is not handed over does not constitute completed delivery under the law. If the item is lost or stolen after a failed delivery attempt and before it reaches you, the seller is still responsible.
2. **Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013**:
- These regulations emphasize that delivery is not considered completed until the consumer has **physical possession** of the item.
- Even if Royal Mail or another courier service made a delivery attempt, this is not sufficient to shift responsibility from the seller to the buyer if the item is subsequently lost.
In your situation, because you did not receive the package and Royal Mail has admitted to losing it after their delivery attempt, the seller remains responsible for ensuring that you receive the item or issuing a refund. The seller can then pursue a claim with Royal Mail for their own compensation due to the loss.
Thus, the law requires **actual delivery** of the goods into your hands or to someone authorized by you—not merely an attempted delivery.
Last edited by bitt3n; 10th October 2024 at 10:55.
Wasn't it lost between the authentication centre and yourself rather than the seller? Surely the refund should come from them?
The seller would have posted it to an address in Ruislip not directly to you, it arrived there so he has no claim on RM.
The centre forwarded it to your address, they are the only party able to claim.
Unless I'm missing something.
Last edited by kace; 10th October 2024 at 11:08.
For reasons I cannot ascertain, the item was shipped directly to me from the seller. I don't recall offhand whether authentication was advertised in the listing (or if all watches above a certain value automatically get the service included). I didn't deliberately elect not to have it sent through the center during the checkout process. The item had a 30-day return policy so I wasn't particularly worried about the authenticity.
Had it been sent through the center I would really be in trouble, because if eBay won't help with the refund I don't see why the Authentication Center would cooperate.
Then surely the seller has lost his protection by not sending it to the address he'd have been given following the sale? I've only sold one watch valuable enough to need authentication but I was given the Ruislip address to use.
I don't think you can opt in or out of the authentication process, it ought to have gone there, not to you.
According to eBay, I'm at the seller's mercy (unbelievably).
They claim that attempted delivery constitutes evidence of successful delivery. These are eBay's relevant Terms and Conditions:
I noted that for items costing more than £450 a signature is required for evidence of successful delivery, but the representative claimed that the signature is not required if delivery is merely attempted. This seems obviously wrong to me given the wording of the terms, but after that the representative ceased communication.Deciding the outcome when the buyer doesn’t receive an item
When eBay is asked to step in and the transaction meets our eligibility requirements, we will look for:
• Evidence of successful delivery to the address provided in the Order details, or
• Proof that the buyer collected the item
If we determine that the item was not successfully delivered or collected:
• The buyer will receive a refund for the full cost of the item and original postage, and
• The seller may be required to reimburse eBay for the amount of the refund
Evidence of successful delivery
We require all of the following to prove a successful on-time delivery:
• Tracking number that can be validated on the shipping carrier’s website and which was uploaded to eBay before the latest estimated delivery date;
• A delivery status of “delivered” or “attempted delivery” (or equivalent in the country to which the item was delivered);
• The date of delivery or attempted delivery;
• The recipient’s address, showing at least the city/county or postcode (or international equivalent) that matches the one found on the Order details page; and
• Signature confirmation, on orders with a total cost of £450 or more. Learn more about our signature confirmation requirements.
Proof that the buyer collected the item
For local collection items, evidence that the buyer has received the item may include:
• A copy of the eBay order details, signed by the buyer at the time of collection
• The seller using the eBay app to scan the buyer’s QR code or manually enter the buyer’s 6-digit pickup code at the time of collection
Let me know if you need further clarification or details from these terms.
Is the issue not between the seller and RM - they have a contract with RM
Although they have under declared the value so they could possibly wriggle out of it
At this point eBay refuses to refund my money, so nothing beyond good conscience is preventing the seller from pocketing my £4100 and then an extra £2500 from RM.
This sounds completely messed up , looking on the eBay link to the watch it says eBay authenticity so should have went directly to eBay I don’t believe the seller actually gets your address
Last edited by Balance wheel; 10th October 2024 at 12:46.
How was payment made? If it was via a credit card then take it up with your credit card provider. EBay or not, if you didn’t receive the goods then you’re protected by your credit card provider.
I paid via credit card. I am reluctant to do a chargeback save as a last resort, because I strongly suspect that if I go that route I will be permanently banned from eBay. I have another account but I imagine they might ban any account with which my card is associated.
This seems like such a bizarre situation. RM's losing the item is not the buyer's responsibility, and eBay's terms clearly state that a signature is required for items over £450 in order to constitute evidence of a successful delivery, but here we are.
This is what I'm confused about. I just got the buyers name and a reference number and the authentication centres address. I don't understand how the seller sent it direct, or why. And surely they have lost their protection from eBay by sending to the wrong address?
Just do the chargeback.
I had a dispute with a buyer in the US and was I happy to refund him, but he was being a dick about it demanding I send him a pre-paid USPS shipping label which I was unable to do. I left it to Ebay knowing I'd done everything possible to facilitate the return but they still sided with the buyer and left me £650 short so it was either small claims court or a chargeback, and the chargeback was so much easier to do.
I never heard a thing from Ebay about it, then after a year I sold something low value to see if Ebay withheld the payment but it was in my account after a few days and I've been selling freely ever since.
I’m suprised RM have admitted loosing it this soon-
I have offered my help with possibly some more in depth tracking
If it had been authenticated the tracking number would have changed - then would eBay not be responsible as the item is then being sent from them to the buyer
The sticking point is that eBay claims because a delivery was attempted (and despite the fact that I specifically asked RM not to attempt delivery), it is now my problem. So regardless of whether it came from the Authentication Center or the seller himself, I'd still be in the same position.
Another problem is that even if the seller were to refund me directly, that as well will cause a headache, because he won't be able to get the eBay fees back. Then there's the fact that he's got a paper profit on the item that he'll need to report to the tax authorities despite the fact he refunded the sale. eBay's refusing to assist is creating quite a mess even if the seller is fully cooperative.
(This is all on top of the fact he's taking a £1600 loss on the difference between the insured value and the sale value. Plus he sold the watch at what I consider to be quite a discount in the first place.)
You seem to be more concerned about your ebay account, getting fees refunded and the seller's potential profit than your financial loss. Just do the chargeback, get your money back and move on. As for him reporting any profit from an ebay sale to the tax authorities, why would you care? And he's never going to do that anyway.
Last edited by TaketheCannoli; 10th October 2024 at 14:03.
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