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Thread: Keyless Entry Security

  1. #1
    Master Kaffe's Avatar
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    Keyless Entry Security

    I've just bought myself a new car which has a keyless entry system. I love it. It's very convenient. However it seems that the criminal fraternity can easily overcome this. Car theft is not really an issue where I live but I do travel a lot so I've been looking into the Faraday pouches that apparently block any signal from the key fob. That's all very well but it completely negates the convenience of the keyless entry when you have to remove the fob from the pouch to open and start the car. Is it one or the other? First world problem, I know. Also it seems that the pouches have a life expectancy. Why would this be? Any thoughts.

  2. #2
    Grand Master Chris_in_the_UK's Avatar
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    Another car industry gimmick - had 2 cars with this (Mazda and BMW).

    Mazda was broken into on the drive with no alarm etc. so I am not a fan. The faraday stuff is more for when the key is in the house and the car on the drive - just keep the key a decent distance from the car?.
    When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........

  3. #3
    I have just made my step dad a wooden lined box to keep his keys in at home. As he was keeping them in a pouch and the rest of his keys would not fit. Anything metal or lined with tin foil or similar will work. Alternatively donít keep your keys by the front door

  4. #4
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    If it's a Mercedes just double push the lock button and it turns off keyless. If not just leave them in the back dining room or at the back of the house.

  5. #5
    Master Harry Smith's Avatar
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    Our keyless entry Renault was pinched off the drive 3 months ago. All this keyless/contactless business is ridiculous. You have these convenient time and effort saving devices then you have to hide keys and cards in faraday pouches ffs. We are doomed.
    Edit; Our Renault keyfob was deep in the middle of the house, so don't delude yourselves with that myth
    Last edited by Harry Smith; 4th June 2021 at 23:56.

  6. #6
    Master Kaffe's Avatar
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    Thanks chaps. Very interesting. I had assumed that the thieves would target one when actually using the fob, not when it was some distance from the car. I had thought that the signal only travelled a very short distance from the fob. With mine it only works when I'm less than a meter from the car.

  7. #7
    Master
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    They locate & boost the signal, so trucks the cat into thinking it is next to it.

    My old M4 had it & hated it. Pouch when at home, when leaving, removed from the pouch & into pocket, so comfort entry worked.

    At the other end of the journey as I walking away from the car, key back into the pouch. Not a real ball ache, but happier my current car does not have it.


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  8. #8
    Master
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    My old Auris got nicked the same way. Found out later that the keyless entry can be disabled through the screen menuÖ.

  9. #9
    Master Kaffe's Avatar
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    I can disable it. Seems a shame.

  10. #10
    Master Possu's Avatar
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    I love my keyless entry. I insure against theft and just enjoy it without a second thought.

  11. #11
    Journeyman
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    We have an F-Pace and you have to be within one metre for keyless to work never bothered us in the 4 years weíve owned the car

  12. #12
    Just buy a cheap metal key box and get into the habit or putting the keys in it, we have two one up and one downstairs,

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Possu View Post
    I love my keyless entry. I insure against theft and just enjoy it without a second thought.
    You pay for gap insurance as well then?

  14. #14
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mj2k View Post
    ... so trucks the cat into thinking it is next to it.
    Love autocorrect!!

  15. #15
    Master
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    I have a keyless car in Spain and an "old fashioned" ignition key in the UK. I see no difference in using either of them.

    I ask myself a simple question, is the loss of security worth it just to save a few seconds putting a key in a door lock and an ignition switch. The answer is no.

  16. #16

    Keyless Entry Security

    One of our cars is keyless but I tend to lock and unlock it with the fob regardless- on a couple of occasions when Iíve locked it with my thumb it has unlocked by itself so I donít trust it now. Utterly pointless imho


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    Last edited by RobDad; 5th June 2021 at 10:34.

  17. #17
    Master Possu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianw View Post
    You pay for gap insurance as well then?
    No, that would require the second thought. I can take the risk of losing a few thousand euros. The level of comfort seems to be worth it. Iíll rethink my position the first time my car gets stolen.

  18. #18
    Craftsman
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    I am looking to buy a new car, and this thread has prompted me to add "no keyless entry" to my list of requirements of things I don't want. It is quite a list, most of them are so-called "improvements". Another one is an overly complicated dashboard with too much reliance on touch-screens. Give us physical buttons!

  19. #19
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Wouldn't buy a car without keyless. The convenience is great and good and when you come to sell in a few years the buyers will wonder why the hell it doesn't have keyless.

  20. #20
    Craftsman
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    We are all different
    I would not buy a car with keyless entry
    Why make cars easier to steal ?


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  21. #21
    Grand Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Possu View Post
    I love my keyless entry. I insure against theft and just enjoy it without a second thought.
    Not sure Finland is full of scrotes stealing vehicles all day and night.

  22. #22
    Master Possu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seadog1408 View Post
    Not sure Finland is full of scrotes stealing vehicles all day and night.
    Itís not. I admit it may be that I just havenít realised how good we have it up here.

  23. #23
    I watched a review on car wow of the latest VW Tiguan. It looks very similar to my 2020 model but all the dash buttons and stalk controls on my version have now been replaced with touch sensitive Ďcontrolsí which every reviewer of the latest VW models seems to regards as a backwards step. If it means you have to take your eyes off the road to find a control then clearly itís stupid and dangerous to the point of potential loss of life. I can honestly say if my car had these new controls as standard I wouldnít have bought it (and I doubt thereís an option to go back to physical buttons) - just because it might look cool and hi tech doesnít necessarily mean itís fit for purpose!


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  24. #24
    Master
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    We have two keyless entry cars. We keep all the car keys in a steel biscuit tin with a lid on. As a test I put the tin next to the cars , no joy, however as soon as you open the lid voila the door can be opened. Its like a genie getting out of a lamp.

    Steve

  25. #25
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by higham5 View Post
    We have two keyless entry cars. We keep all the car keys in a steel biscuit tin with a lid on. As a test I put the tin next to the cars , no joy, however as soon as you open the lid voila the door can be opened. Its like a genie getting out of a lamp.

    Steve
    What we donít know if itís a weak transmitter in the key or a weak receiver in the car, a villains computer gear may boost the key signal a lot.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  26. #26
    Master Harry Smith's Avatar
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    Most of you keyless admirers would have a different opinion if your P&J was nicked from the front of your house and all the palaver that goes with it.

  27. #27
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    Not all keyless entry systems are the same, many donít succumb to the relay attack methods that are being used to steal some cars whilst the key is in the house and the car on the drive.

    A relay attack builds in delay between the car communicating with the key, modern systems recognise the milliseconds of delay in such an attack and therefore ignore it if it isnít the timing expected.

    Then thereís other tricks like the key going to sleep when itís left motionless for a few minutes, and it only wakes up again to talk to the car if itís moved.

    Faraday pouches etc work, but also remove a lot of the convenience of a keyless system.

    I used to think keyless entry was a solution looking for a problem, but now it feels odd to press a button and/or insert a key.

  28. #28
    Master Kaffe's Avatar
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    Great replies folks. Haha. I'm sure Finland has it's measure of scrotes as well. Anyway, I've bought a couple of faraday pouches. They have key rings on the outside so just the fob lives in the pouch. Seemed better than carrying some huge thing that everything is stuffed into. I tested them today and they work. Not an ideal solution but will give some peace of mind when I'm on my travels. I wonder what the manufacturers are doing about the problem. Perhaps in the future there will be iris recognition devices fitted to cars. :) A slight aside but I fueled the car for the first time today. When I got back in and started up, a message came up on the display telling me how much I had put in. It then asked me what the fuel cost. Wtf! I ignored it.

  29. #29
    Master Kaffe's Avatar
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    I entirely agree about touch screens being an unnecessary distraction . Especially for poor or inexperienced drivers. My son is taking driving lessons at the moment. A couple of weeks ago I took him out. He is doing quite well but on that day we hadn't gone far when he suddenly started messing about with various controls. It seems that the info display on the dashboard was not showing what he wanted. The trouble was that his attention of the road was lost. We started to drift towards the center line and there was an oncoming HGV approaching. I was forced to grab the wheel and steer away. Frightening stuff. I told him to pull over and we had a 'mild' chat about it. These devices will be great when we have reliable autonomous cars but life will be very dull. :)

  30. #30
    I've been using one of these for years; effective and a visual deterrent: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Disklok-Ste...2947417&sr=8-2

  31. #31
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by noms2000 View Post
    I've been using one of these for years; effective and a visual deterrent: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Disklok-Ste...2947417&sr=8-2
    No doubt very effective, but I can't bear the thought of wrestling with one of those each time I set off and each time I park up. My neighbour uses one on his X5M - it would totally spoil the ownership experience for me.

    As for keyless entry, I have it on my car and whilst it is very convenient, I would happily do without it. I haven't tried to disable it on my current car but it wasn't an option on my previous one (a Honda Civic).

  32. #32
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by David_D View Post
    Love autocorrect!!
    Scary though!


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  33. #33
    Craftsman
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaffe View Post
    I entirely agree about touch screens being an unnecessary distraction . Especially for poor or inexperienced drivers. My son is taking driving lessons at the moment. A couple of weeks ago I took him out. He is doing quite well but on that day we hadn't gone far when he suddenly started messing about with various controls. It seems that the info display on the dashboard was not showing what he wanted. The trouble was that his attention of the road was lost. We started to drift towards the center line and there was an oncoming HGV approaching. I was forced to grab the wheel and steer away. Frightening stuff. I told him to pull over and we had a 'mild' chat about it. These devices will be great when we have reliable autonomous cars but life will be very dull. :)
    I agree. Why is it illegal (in the UK) to use a mobile phone whilst driving, presumably because taking your attention off the road to look at its screen is very dangerous, but it is not illegal to be messing about with the touch screen on the dash?

  34. #34
    Craftsman SydR's Avatar
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    Keyless Entry Security

    Quote Originally Posted by Tatters View Post
    I agree. Why is it illegal (in the UK) to use a mobile phone whilst driving, presumably because taking your attention off the road to look at its screen is very dangerous, but it is not illegal to be messing about with the touch screen on the dash?
    In event of a collision or erratic driving, for example, itís covered under driving without due care and attention.

    My current car has, mainly, conventional controls but, annoyingly, things like adjusting air vents, temperature etc are all done via a touch screen.
    Last edited by SydR; 6th June 2021 at 11:40.

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