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Thread: A dilemma, advice appreciated

  1. #1
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    A dilemma, advice appreciated

    I bought a slightly under 3 year old Patek Calatrava from a Patek AD’s pre-owned section recently, a very expensive purchase for me and one I wanted to be spot on.

    It immediately had a power reserve issue. The AD was fantastic and actually came and picked the watch up from my house and sent to Patek.

    It seems it will need a full service, which will be covered by the AD’s warranty. On the face of it, that seems like a winner as I will get a freshly Patek serviced watch back with a new warranty.

    However, I’m pretty annoyed that this has happened. I’ve paid a lot of money for a watch that has a major fault and which I won’t see for a couple more months. I don’t believe a good quality automatic should really need a service after 3 years. I know manufacturers quote 3 years sometimes but I always took that with a huge pinch of salt, my experience has been 5-7 years easily with other watches.

    I’m also a bit nervous because the only other watch I owned which needed a service so quickly was a problem watch for a while after that too.

    Part of me wants to insist on a refund (which I should be able to argue easily enough under the consumer rights act, I know my rights), part of me thinks that all will likely be fine and in a couple of months I’ll have a great watch.

    What would you do?

    Cheers, Berty.
    Last edited by Berty234; 24th May 2021 at 11:40.

  2. #2
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    I would wait on the service, presumably it wasn't sold as having had a recent Patek service, it would not be cheap so I think you have come out ahead of the deal, the full Patek service will add value.
    Presumably you would want to find another one to replace it, the same scenario could happen again.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  3. #3
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    Things I would be considering:

    How long do Patek guarantee their services for?
    You don't say which particular Calatrava model - how easy would it be to find another example if you were to pursue a refund?

  4. #4
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    It’s a recently discontinued model. I’m sure I could find a suitable replacement if I tried.

    I’m mostly worried about it being a problem watch like my other one referenced. Might be silly as one bad experience doesn’t translate to others. If it had been a less expensive watch I wouldn’t be so annoyed.

    I believe it’s a two year warranty on service.
    Last edited by Berty234; 24th May 2021 at 11:28.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post
    I would wait on the service, presumably it wasn't sold as having had a recent Patek service, it would not be cheap so I think you have come out ahead of the deal, the full Patek service will add value.
    Presumably you would want to find another one to replace it, the same scenario could happen again.
    Exactly this mate, you would hope a service of such a prestigious name would make the watch as close to pristine and meeting the manufacturers tolerances on the button.



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  6. #6
    It will come back as new. Not sure what else there is to worry about. I would keep it unless you have the opportunity to buy one of the new Calatravas which look amazing!

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  7. #7
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    Sounds like part of you regrets buying the watch and this is a possible escape hatch ...

    If you want the watch it sounds like a result as you will get a freshly service watch; which will have a service warranty. It's not like they don't know how to fix their watches ...

  8. #8
    Master Rinaldo1711's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpjsavage View Post
    It will come back as new. Not sure what else there is to worry about. I would keep it unless you have the opportunity to buy one of the new Calatravas which look amazing!

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    Agree - Iíd wait for it to come back looking like new and with a full service which adds to its value.

  9. #9
    Grand Master magirus's Avatar
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    Me? I buy watches to keep, I'd have the free service in a flash.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    Sounds like part of you regrets buying the watch and this is a possible escape hatch ...

    If you want the watch it sounds like a result as you will get a freshly service watch; which will have a service warranty. It's not like they don't know how to fix their watches ...
    I don’t regret buying the watch, but I think anything you buy that has immediate problems will be a concern. It’s not much different to buying a new watch and it having a fault really, do you accept the fix or get your money back.

    I’m just affected by previous similar experiences where the manufacturer certainly took a few goes to fix their watch.

  11. #11
    Fix

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  12. #12
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berty234 View Post
    Itís not much different to buying a new watch and it having a fault really, do you accept the fix or get your money back.
    Absolutely not: you bought something second hand and it will come back as new; so in effect you will be quids in.

    When buying something hand built you do not have the same consistency as you would get from a factory. Quality control can spot visual defects, electronics can identify working issues if they show up but if they don't, the watch will go through.
    If it stood in display for some time it is not unusual that a watch needs a service when it's used again.

    At the end of the day it's your watch and your choice. But I believe the amount paid means that buyer's remorse is not far away. I'll just say that if the choice was to get a freshly serviced watch, and the guarantee it comes with (probably from Patek themselves this time, not from the dealer) or seeking another with no tangible evidence of a recent service, it would be for me a no-brainer. And if it had a service, then it could be for the same reasons as yours.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berty234 View Post
    I don’t regret buying the watch, but I think anything you buy that has immediate problems will be a concern. It’s not much different to buying a new watch and it having a fault really, do you accept the fix or get your money back.

    I’m just affected by previous similar experiences where the manufacturer certainly took a few goes to fix their watch.
    A used watch has an unknown history; if you get a free service that is as good as it gets.

    A new watch with a fault is a different matter; but usually I'd take a free service as generally a new replacement isn't always an option.

    If you are 100% happy you like the watch then I'd wait it out and get it serviced.

    Although the issue does take the shine off the initial purchase excitement. Mechanical watches are a PITA really ...

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berty234 View Post
    I donít regret buying the watch, but I think anything you buy that has immediate problems will be a concern. Itís not much different to buying a new watch and it having a fault really, do you accept the fix or get your money back.

    Iím just affected by previous similar experiences where the manufacturer certainly took a few goes to fix their watch.
    I get that but in this instance I'd be content with a PP service and the subsequent piece of mind of 2 years PP warranty. You'll be in a pretty solid position if anything does go wrong thereafter.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Absolutely not: you bought something second hand and it will come back as new; so in effect you will be quids in.

    When buying something hand built you do not have the same consistency as you would get from a factory. Quality control can spot visual defects, electronics can identify working issues if they show up but if they don't, the watch will go through.
    If it stood in display for some time it is not unusual that a watch needs a service when it's used again.

    At the end of the day it's your watch and your choice. But I believe the amount paid means that buyer's remorse is not far away. I'll just say that if the choice was to get a freshly serviced watch, and the guarantee it comes with (probably from Patek themselves this time, not from the dealer) or seeking another with no tangible evidence of a recent service, it would be for me a no-brainer. And if it had a service, then it could be for the same reasons as yours.
    I get that on the service benefit and yes, fair enough on new vs not so new.

    Not sure why I’m getting so much “buyers remorse” implied feedback though. I suppose I’m looking at from the perspective of: if you knew the watch had a fault and you would pay upfront only to wait three months from buying to get it delivered fix, would you buy it? I probably wouldn’t have done. Others might do, I know, buying with the known need for a service and all that.

    I’ll probably just go with the service but I thought I’d be entitled to feel annoyed at the situation.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berty234 View Post
    I get that on the service benefit and yes, fair enough on new vs not so new.

    Not sure why Iím getting so much ďbuyers remorseĒ implied feedback though. I suppose Iím looking at from the perspective of: if you knew the watch had a fault and you would pay upfront only to wait three months from buying to get it delivered fix, would you buy it? I probably wouldnít have done. Others might do, I know, buying with the known need for a service and all that.

    Iíll probably just go with the service but I thought Iíd be entitled to feel annoyed at the situation.
    I guess your OP came over a little negative about keeping the watch which will be as good as new when it comes back from service ...

    It will be all good in the end ... even after the wait ...

  17. #17
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berty234 View Post
    Not sure why Iím getting so much ďbuyers remorseĒ implied feedback though.
    You stated yourself how significant the amount spent was for you.

    There is nothing shameful, or any negativity, in mentioning buyer's remorse: it's a real thing, and more prevalent as the (relative) importance of the output is for the buyer.
    Feeling aggrieved is normal but remember that that watch probably hadn't been used for some time. Many people here will confirm they have had issues with watches that worked perfectly when they retired them, and needed a service when they came out of retirement.
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montello View Post
    I guess your OP came over a little negative about keeping the watch which will be as good as new when it comes back from service ...

    It will be all good in the end ... even after the wait ...
    Fair enough, think I just needed to vent. One of those for the thread regret pile :)

  19. #19
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    I'd give the retailer an opportunity to resolve the issue, and if the problem persists then have a discussion about an alternative resolution. To be fair I'd be okay with it going back to Patek for a full service as they'll be able to get the crux of the problem and get it sorted. I'd be less enthusiastic if the service is being carried about by an in-house watchmaker, which would probably prompt me to request a full refund.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Berty234 View Post
    I get that on the service benefit and yes, fair enough on new vs not so new.

    Not sure why I’m getting so much “buyers remorse” implied feedback though. I suppose I’m looking at from the perspective of: if you knew the watch had a fault and you would pay upfront only to wait three months from buying to get it delivered fix, would you buy it? I probably wouldn’t have done. Others might do, I know, buying with the known need for a service and all that.

    I’ll probably just go with the service but I thought I’d be entitled to feel annoyed at the situation.
    I guess the AD had no idea that there was any issue with the power reserve and as soon as they did they’ve
    gone out of their way to sort the issue so don’t think any reason to be annoyed with them, sounds like what you are really
    annoyed about is that you’ve paid but won’t have use of it for a few months which is understandable.
    If you want one now and can source one of same age at the same price and If it’s always going to bug
    you that it might have issues again then get your money back.

    Like most others if it was me I would keep it, just had similar situation on a lower value watch, although
    I couldn’t source another one at the same price, but I will end up with basically a new fully serviced watch
    but won’t be able to wear it for a couple of months.
    Last edited by TBKBABAB; 24th May 2021 at 12:32.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by stelmo01 View Post
    I'd give the retailer an opportunity to resolve the issue, and if the problem persists then have a discussion about an alternative resolution. To be fair I'd be okay with it going back to Patek for a full service as they'll be able to get the crux of the problem and get it sorted. I'd be less enthusiastic if the service is being carried about by an in-house watchmaker, which would probably prompt me to request a full refund.
    Totally agree, fortunately it is with Patek. If it was an in house watchmaker I would be doing the same.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berty234 View Post
    Fair enough, think I just needed to vent. One of those for the thread regret pile :)
    To be fair I think getting other peoples perspectives when this kind of thing arises is really helpful. It's a good way to judge if you're over-reacting for not, which with an expensive purchase like a Patek you're definitely not.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by TBKBABAB View Post
    I guess the AD had no idea that there was any issue with the power reserve and as soon as they did theyíve
    gone out of their way to sort the issue so donít think any reason to be annoyed with them, sounds like you are
    annoyed that youíve paid but wonít have use of it for a few months which is understandable.
    If you want one now and can source one of same age at the same price and If itís always going to bug
    you that it might have issues again then get your money back.

    Like most others if it was me I would keep it, just had similar situation on a lower value watch, although
    I couldnít source another one at the same price, but I will end up with basically a new fully serviced watch
    but wonít be able to wear it for a couple of months.
    Yeah thatís spot on. Canít fault the AD itself, Iím just annoyed about the watch. Thatís the crux of it, the nagging worry it will still have problems (caused by a similar experience). Iím not sure I would readily find an exact like for like replacement at the same price.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berty234 View Post
    Yeah thatís spot on. Canít fault the AD itself, Iím just annoyed about the watch. Thatís the crux of it, the nagging worry it will still have problems (caused by a similar experience). Iím not sure I would readily find an exact like for like replacement at the same price.

    I'd be frustrated that things are not perfect given the cost but in due course they will be ...

    This tread was fair enough to start to canvas opinion ... seems the majority would wait and get a nice freshly serviced watch.

    Lets have a photo of this fine item ...

  25. #25
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    Try not to think of it as a faulty watch, it just need a service like all mech watches will need at some point, if the crown had fallen off or the hands couldn't be set then yes, I'd be upset, but not for a power reserve issue which will affect any watch over time and can be rectified so easily,
    Cheers..
    Jase

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Berty234 View Post
    Yeah thatís spot on. Canít fault the AD itself, Iím just annoyed about the watch. Thatís the crux of it, the nagging worry it will still have problems (caused by a similar experience). Iím not sure I would readily find an exact like for like replacement at the same price.
    OK, so the AD has refunded you, there is an identical watch at the same price would you rush off and buy it?

  27. #27
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    I think if it were freshly serviced before being sold they would have asked for more money? I think a free service from Patek has actually worked in your favour

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaurav_tzuk View Post
    I think if it were freshly serviced before being sold they would have asked for more money? I think a free service from Patek has actually worked in your favour
    Thatís very likely true. I must make sure I get all the paperwork.

  29. #29
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    Agree that you will come out ahead in terms of costs on this. I would wait for the watch to come back. I know it is a pain to have paid a lot of money for a watch and then have it away from you for a few months. But it will be worth it in the end.

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  30. #30
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    You are coming across as somewhat indecisive, are you sure an expensive watch is really for you?

    The dealer is acting quite good, and after a bit of a wait you get a revamped watch, I cannot see why you are making such a fuss.

  31. #31
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    The P stands for empathy.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    The P stands for empathy.
    No such thing in business. The OP is looking for a way out and should never have walked into the shop.

  33. #33
    Grand Master wileeeeeey's Avatar
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    Or he could just be unhappy at the possibility of being sold a dreaded "Friday watch" and given a considerable sum to a shop as a 0% loan as he's now without the watch for a few months.

    PP servicing isn't the fastest.

  34. #34
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    Sorry but he knows that PP have to be serviced on a regular 3/5 years and you will be without them for about six months. No excuses.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by wileeeeeey View Post
    The P stands for empathy.
    Chuckled

  36. #36
    Grand Master ryanb741's Avatar
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    I'd be telling eth AD I was unhappy about buying a watch I'll not be able to wear for 4 months but inwardly be delighted you are getting a free spa treatment from Patek. Maybe the AD will make things right by offering a freebie like a Montblanc Pen or something. But this is a great deal - 2nd had watch that now gets a PP service - result!

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    You are coming across as somewhat indecisive, are you sure an expensive watch is really for you?

    The dealer is acting quite good, and after a bit of a wait you get a revamped watch, I cannot see why you are making such a fuss.
    That felt a bit patronising. I’ve had a fair few nice watches and when this kind of thing happens it’s normal to feel aggrieved I’d think.
    Last edited by Berty234; 24th May 2021 at 15:01.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanb741 View Post
    I'd be telling eth AD I was unhappy about buying a watch I'll not be able to wear for 4 months but inwardly be delighted you are getting a free spa treatment from Patek. Maybe the AD will make things right by offering a freebie like a Montblanc Pen or something. But this is a great deal - 2nd had watch that now gets a PP service - result!

    You never know!

  39. #39
    Master M1011's Avatar
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    I'd be happy with that outcome. Worth a few months wait for a freshly serviced watch at no cost to you.

  40. #40
    Grand Master Dave+63's Avatar
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    A dilemma, advice appreciated

    Quote Originally Posted by Mick P View Post
    Sorry but he knows that PP have to be serviced on a regular 3/5 years and you will be without them for about six months. No excuses.
    Come on Mick, itís one thing knowing that it has to be serviced every three to five years, quite another to have to have it go in it the day after he purchased it.

    Edit to add, I do think youíve got a result there though OP, even if you have to wait a few months to enjoy it.
    Last edited by Dave+63; 24th May 2021 at 15:15.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave+63 View Post
    Come on Mick, itís one thing knowing that it has to be serviced every three to five years, quite another to have to have it go in it the day after he purchased it.

    Edit to add, I do think youíve got a result there though OP, even if you have to edit a few months to enjoy it.
    Indeed...

  42. #42
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
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    I think the OP worries in case he has a lemon in his hands. There is no way of knowing or finding out quickly. So I'd say return it now and get another watch that is running well from the off.
    "All clocks break, and what breaks them is Time.Ē Ė Marty Rubin

  43. #43
    As long as you are 100% sure that is the watch you want, this is not a bad outcome. If so inclined you can wrangle a free BOE out of the dealer. OTOH, if you are unsure having seen the news Calatrava models, you can try the refund route.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by abraxas View Post
    I think the OP worries in case he has a lemon in his hands. There is no way of knowing or finding out quickly. So I'd say return it now and get another watch that is running well from the off.
    That was where the refund thinking was coming from.

  45. #45
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berty234 View Post
    That was where the refund thinking was coming from.
    You could have potentially the same issue with any watch, new or used. Itís a mechanical watch that needs a service, thatís it, they all will at some point, at least this way youíre not paying for it.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  46. #46
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    There is no problem.

    The OP bought a watch that had a defect on the day he bought it. The AD has or will send it back to Patek for a service/repair. Patek will never bodge and the OP will in a few months time hold a watch that will be worth more due to the Patek service which is world class.

    If he has any sense, he will hold onto it and it will probably escalate in value over the years.

    There is absolutely no need for any Buyers remorse.

  47. #47
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    I totally get where youíre coming from and Iíd be exactly the same.

    As itís a Patek AD Iíd be confident that youíll be looked after full stop in the event that there was a future issue, which I think would be highly unlikely.

    I had an issue with a Patek once and they gave me a nice money holder. Iíd be letting them know that a few months without the watch youíve just bought isnít ideal and hopefully theyíll look after you.

    All that said though Rob itís your watch and your money, so make sure youíre totally happy keeping it.

  48. #48
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    I'd go with the service and keep the watch, but only provided the Patek service papers and warranty came with it.
    ďThe more I learn about people, the more I like my dog.Ē

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    I'd go with the service and keep the watch, but only provided the Patek service papers and warranty came with it.
    Agree - PP seem to be reluctant to provide written proof of service unless pushed. Smacks of arrogance to me, especially when you are paying top dollar.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoakknives View Post
    I'd go with the service and keep the watch, but only provided the Patek service papers and warranty came with it.
    How very Rolex. I think Patek assume that most of their clients inherited their watches and will pass them on to their heirs. Paper documents are a bit infra dig.

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