Anyone know about car Air Con?

[TaketheCannoli]

Just after bit of advice please.

I bought my car last July and quickly found the AC wasn't working. Dealer got it sorted for me and it was really cold all summer. I used it on-and-off over the winter to clear windows and maintain good pressure in the system.

I noticed a couple of months ago that it didn't seem to be working and got around to seeing someone about it around ten days ago. I didn't want somewhere like ATS or Kwik Fit so sourced a local specialist mobile bloke.

He came out and quickly confirmed the system doesn't have a leak - bonus. He did a re-gas and although I wasn't entirely happy with the coldness it appeared to be fixed. However next day it wasn't working again.

The bloke came out again and said again, no leak, and the pressure had been maintained. He said sometimes when it's been really empty it can take more gas to refill. I was busy at the time and didn't think to ask how it had been so empty in the first place if there wasn't a leak. He did another re-gas and it felt a little colder. Next day, not working again. Blowers actually felt warm.

So he's due to come out again tomorrow and I plan to ask him what he intends doing differently this time as clearly, to me anyway, there's a problem. If he can't fix it I'm going to ask for my money back and go elsewhere.

Anyone experienced this issue before and could give me some advise? What could be wrong with it?

TIA.

[Bry1975]

Ask Scott Kilmer.

[Franky Four Fingers]

Few questions.....did he add UV dye?
Is he assuming no leak due to a vacuum test?

[junglebert]

It’s possible that rather than being a ‘specialist’ he’s just a bloke who’s bought the kit and doesn’t really know what he’s doing. My next thing would be to take it to a bricks and mortar air con specialist. This bloke hasn’t fixed it twice, it’s unlikely he’ll be third time lucky.

[TaketheCannoli]

Thanks, I've learned loads about AC now. Never heard of the bloke. Great resource.

Ask Scott Kilmer.

Yes he used UV dye.

Few questions.....did he add UV dye?
Is he assuming no leak due to a vacuum test?

Yes that's possible.

It’s possible that rather than being a ‘specialist’ he’s just a bloke who’s bought the kit and doesn’t really know what he’s doing. My next thing would be to take it to a bricks and mortar air con specialist. This bloke hasn’t fixed it twice, it’s unlikely he’ll be third time lucky.

[Kirk280]

I watched a documentary on this featuring Nicholas Cage and John Malkovich

[Franky Four Fingers]

So a vacuum test to find an AC leak is not an exact science due mainly to the fact that any damage can be sucked in thus effectively filling the hole. Uv dye is an effective way of finding a leak however on most modernish cars to see the entire system is all most impossible especially if the condenser is leaking and is sandwiched between the radiator and intercooler. I would watch to see how much charge he drags out and ask him how much should be in there to start off with.
If there was nothing in when he initially done it I’d almost certainly think a leak was your issue.

[David_D]

Found this Q&A online:

Why does my air con sometimes blow warm air?


My Ford Transit Custom's air con is cold, but sometimes goes warm. There's no pattern to it. It's had a new relay and regas. When it's warm the fan isn't running, what could the issue be?

Might need a fresh pollen filter, otherwise you can be asking too much of the fan to suck air through a clogged filter.

[jwg663]

I watched a documentary on this featuring Nicholas Cage and John Malkovich

Best line in the movie:

["Sweet Home Alabama" plays in background]

Garland Greene : Define irony. Bunch of idiots dancing on a plane to a song made famous by a band that died in a plane crash.

[Skier]

It doesn't sound like the issue in this case but I have had, what I believed was an air con problem that turned out to be a faulty temperature sensor. This was in a Range Rover a few years ago.

[catch21]

My (limited) understanding is that the refrigerant is a tiny molecule which can eventually escape around the seals even in an otherwise healthy system. The refrigerant also lubricates and keeps the seals healthy, which is why you should periodically run the AC even in winter.

The mistake most people make is using the AC in summer only, which accelerates the refrigerant loss, which accelerates the seal degradation, which accelerates the refrigerant loss, etc.

Periodically the gas should be reclaimed and weighed. The specialist can then tell what percentage of full was remaining. The system should be recharged with a specific weight of gas.

[geordie]

I'll be interested to see how you resolve this as mine desperately needs fixing and I think you're quite local to me, will happily take any recommendations for whoever finally fixes yours!

[Brian]

For a start I would get on to the manufacturers website or whatever and find out the volume of oil and refrigerant in the system. I have always insisted that I have exactly the refrigerant volume that the manufacturer has on the tin and a few more cc of oil than recommended.

If he comes again he should drain it completely . then he should tell you how much gas was in it - compare with the spec. and what he put in yesterday and give you a discount for that refirigeran.tIf he is doing this ( or did it the last time he called) then it may be a duff temperature feedback circuit. Check your fusebox.
It could also be a duff vent actuator contact. Turn the engine off turn the ignition on or run at tickover and turn the aircon temp down - listen for the vents moving - depends on which car as to where they are - then turn the aircon to beyond room temp and listen for them closing.

I got stuck on the miami beach causeway in traffic one day in the past and the aircon wasn't working - it had been repaired the previous day never again.

B

[IAmATeaf]

I went through this with my old Honda Accord, no leak detected but even then the condenser and pump were replaced. Like the OP, would be ice cold after a regass but a week later the air would be warm. This was at an AC specialist and all sort of dyes and oils were injected.

In the end I gave up ever getting it fixed as I was throwing more and more money at it, eventually got rid of the car.

[catch21]

That’s my thinking in general. All these dyes and things are only going to tell you which bit it is that’s going to be too expensive to replace.

[Piemuncher22]

Greetings. I am no car A/C expert, but I am a refrigeration and air conditioning engineer (latterly off the tools) of some 25 years experience, and I do all my own work on my own cars, including the air conditioning as well as sorting out all my mates cars A/C when they go wrong.

It’s difficult to tell exactly what is wrong with yours from your post, but broadly speaking if it gets icy cold and then over a period of time loses its coldness, it’s likely due to the refrigerant leaking out. A leak can be from anywhere at all, but the most likely place is the shaft seal on the compressor. It could also be from a punctured condenser coil, or from a refrigerant line having rubbed through or a joint working loose. But, if it’s a slow leak, the compressor shaft seal is the best place to start. As others have pointed out, the shaft seals can dry out over periods of not being used, although I think that in this day and age (in newer cars) they are much better than they used to be.

There are a few ways to find the leak, but on vehicle A/C I’ve always found the best way to do this is with UV dye. You quite simply inject it into the system, run the system for a while and then use a lamp and special glasses to show up any leaks. It is much more effective than using a “sniffer” because with the engine and A/C running there’s a lot of air movement under the bonnet which can affect the sniffer picking up traces of refrigerant, especially if the leak is very small (worth noting that the A/C needs to be running when you check for leaks as the shaft seal might not leak when it’s not rotating). Even then, it can be a ball ache to identify as the shaft seal is hidden behind the drive pulley and the magnetic clutch. In some cases it’s best to add the dye, run the A/C for a couple of weeks, then take off the A/C drive belt, pulley and clutch to see if there are any traces of dye around the shaft seal.

If it is the shaft seal, it’s a new (or re manufactured) compressor. In order to replace it, or in fact repair any refrigerant leak, the correct thing to do is recover all the remaining refrigerant (it’s illegal to vent it to atmosphere) replace the compressor/fix the leak, pressure test all your joints with oxygen free nitrogen, then vent the nitrogen (it’s inert so this is not a problem) evacuate the system down to a deep vacuum and re fill with the correct amount of refrigerant and compressor oil (as per manufacturers requirements). Also worth noting that you’ll need to clean up and joints with solvent and UV dye remover - that stuff gets everywhere when you change a part and for future leak testing you’ll be chasing your own tail for ages if you don’t clean it off!!! It is important not to pressure test with compressed air as this contains moisture which can cause damage, or form ice crystals inside the system which can block the expansion device or other small refrigerant ways. This is also the reason you should never do a “vacuum test” as others have mentioned or draw any vacuum on the system until you know the system is leak free as this can also draw moisture into the system.

Anyway, that’s the correct way and the way I do it. Nowadays there is a machine you can buy. The operation is quite simple and designed for mechanics to use. You attach the lines, type in the registration number, push “go” and it supposedly removes any remaining refrigerant, telling you how much it has removed, injects the dye, then evacuates and re charges the system. The difference between how much it has removed and what it’s put back in tells you whether or not it has a leak. I’ve never used one of these machines, but that’s what most of the garages who advertise the “£50 air con service” use. They then chance their arm in the hope that the leak will be so slow it’ll be all good until next summer when they charge you another £50!!

It is also worth pointing out that it is illegal to add refrigerant to a system which you know has a leak, as well as being a bit short sighted - if it has leaked out once, it will do so again unless you fix the leak!!

Sadly there is a lot of cowboys out there claiming to be experts. Good luck with fixing it - if I was closer, I’d come and do it for you. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions or need any advice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Spoonbed]

Greetings. I am no car A/C expert, but I am a refrigeration and air conditioning engineer (latterly off the tools) of some 25 years experience, and I do all my own work on my own cars, including the air conditioning as well as sorting out all my mates cars A/C when they go wrong.

It’s difficult to tell exactly what is wrong with yours from your post, but broadly speaking if it gets icy cold and then over a period of time loses its coldness, it’s likely due to the refrigerant leaking out. A leak can be from anywhere at all, but the most likely place is the shaft seal on the compressor. It could also be from a punctured condenser coil, or from a refrigerant line having rubbed through or a joint working loose. But, if it’s a slow leak, the compressor shaft seal is the best place to start. As others have pointed out, the shaft seals can dry out over periods of not being used, although I think that in this day and age (in newer cars) they are much better than they used to be.

There are a few ways to find the leak, but on vehicle A/C I’ve always found the best way to do this is with UV dye. You quite simply inject it into the system, run the system for a while and then use a lamp and special glasses to show up any leaks. It is much more effective than using a “sniffer” because with the engine and A/C running there’s a lot of air movement under the bonnet which can affect the sniffer picking up traces of refrigerant, especially if the leak is very small (worth noting that the A/C needs to be running when you check for leaks as the shaft seal might not leak when it’s not rotating). Even then, it can be a ball ache to identify as the shaft seal is hidden behind the drive pulley and the magnetic clutch. In some cases it’s best to add the dye, run the A/C for a couple of weeks, then take off the A/C drive belt, pulley and clutch to see if there are any traces of dye around the shaft seal.

If it is the shaft seal, it’s a new (or re manufactured) compressor. In order to replace it, or in fact repair any refrigerant leak, the correct thing to do is recover all the remaining refrigerant (it’s illegal to vent it to atmosphere) replace the compressor/fix the leak, pressure test all your joints with oxygen free nitrogen, then vent the nitrogen (it’s inert so this is not a problem) evacuate the system down to a deep vacuum and re fill with the correct amount of refrigerant and compressor oil (as per manufacturers requirements). Also worth noting that you’ll need to clean up and joints with solvent and UV dye remover - that stuff gets everywhere when you change a part and for future leak testing you’ll be chasing your own tail for ages if you don’t clean it off!!! It is important not to pressure test with compressed air as this contains moisture which can cause damage, or form ice crystals inside the system which can block the expansion device or other small refrigerant ways. This is also the reason you should never do a “vacuum test” as others have mentioned or draw any vacuum on the system until you know the system is leak free as this can also draw moisture into the system.

Anyway, that’s the correct way and the way I do it. Nowadays there is a machine you can buy. The operation is quite simple and designed for mechanics to use. You attach the lines, type in the registration number, push “go” and it supposedly removes any remaining refrigerant, telling you how much it has removed, injects the dye, then evacuates and re charges the system. The difference between how much it has removed and what it’s put back in tells you whether or not it has a leak. I’ve never used one of these machines, but that’s what most of the garages who advertise the “£50 air con service” use. They then chance their arm in the hope that the leak will be so slow it’ll be all good until next summer when they charge you another £50!!

It is also worth pointing out that it is illegal to add refrigerant to a system which you know has a leak, as well as being a bit short sighted - if it has leaked out once, it will do so again unless you fix the leak!!

Sadly there is a lot of cowboys out there claiming to be experts. Good luck with fixing it - if I was closer, I’d come and do it for you. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions or need any advice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A fellow Fridgie👍🏻
Though not as lucky as you to be off the tools!
Roll on winter!

[TaketheCannoli]

By way of an update, the bloke's coming out Sunday morning and I've asked him to do a diagnostic in addition to the pressure check before he does anything else.

[Piemuncher22]

A fellow Fridgie��
Though not as lucky as you to be off the tools!
Roll on winter!

Stay strong brother. The hot weather hasn’t even started yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ernestrome]

Stay strong brother. The hot weather hasn’t even started yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What vehicle is it? For some reason some car designers and manufacturers do not think it is important to protect the condenser from stone strikes and they are easily damaged. After replacing the condenser on our Nissan Juke twice(!) I installed a coarse aluminium mesh between the grill and the condenser. Did the main rad too. They won't be fooling me a third time.

[TaketheCannoli]

After three cancelled / re-arranged appointments I have my money back.

[Rod]

I had issues with my Honda Civic. No air con, relay was changed, dye test, no leaks. I could feel the clutch kicking in but still nothing.
Garage changed the compressor and seals and now it's ice cold. £295 Inc labour.

[TaketheCannoli]

I'm struggling to find a local (to NE23) bricks and mortar specialist that reviews well. I could put into Vauxhall but fear I'll need to take some lube.

I had issues with my Honda Civic. No air con, relay was changed, dye test, no leaks. I could feel the clutch kicking in but still nothing.
Garage changed the compressor and seals and now it's ice cold. £295 Inc labour.

[adrianw]

When the bloke leak tested it, assuming Vacuum then pressure, how long did it take?

[TaketheCannoli]

Maybe 20 mins or more.

When the bloke leak tested it, assuming Vacuum then pressure, how long did it take?

[adrianw]

Maybe 20 mins or more.

Hmmm, find someone else, on the basis that it was not performing as it should, I would have expected him to hold it for a lot longer and carefully measure what he took out of the system, if it was an electrical problem it would still be full up, I'm not an A/C expert but do dick about with cars, I did one of mine at a friendly garage on Friday, we left it on vacuum for an hour.

[TaketheCannoli]

Interesting, thanks a lot. Typically the weather here over the last three weeks has been amazing and I've not had the AC :(

Hmmm, find someone else, on the basis that it was not performing as it should, I would have expected him to hold it for a lot longer and carefully measure what he took out of the system, if it was an electrical problem it would still be full up, I'm not an A/C expert but do dick about with cars, I did one of mine at a friendly garage on Friday, we left it on vacuum for an hour.

[squashy1]

ATS Euromaster
4.7





5,977 Ratings

252 Locations18.3 mi

Air-Conditioning Recharge with Optional Antibacterial Treatment at ATS Euromaster, Nationwide (Up to 40% Off)
Select Option

R134A refrigerant: car air-con recharge (Most vehicles registered before 1 Jan 2017)

5,000+ bought
£60
£35.99
40% Off

R134A refrigerant: antibacterial treatment and car air-con recharge (Most vehicles registered before 1 Jan 2017)

5,000+ bought
£70
£41.99
40% Off

R1234YF refrigerant: car air-con recharge (Most vehicles registered after 1 Jan 2017)

660+ bought
£129.99
£86.99
33% Off

R1234YF refrigerant: antibacterial treatment and car air-con recharge (Most vehicles registered after 1 Jan 2017)

550+ bought
£139.99
£93.99
32% Off
Over 950 sold today, this item is moving fast. Act now if you want one of your own!
Buy
Give as a Gift
Share This Deal

ATS: Car Air-Conditioning Recharge
Might help might not its a deal on Groupon at the moment
Squashy1

[MakeColdplayHistory]

By coincidence I was supposed to be having my car's aircon problems diagnosed today by a local mobile expert (well reviewed) but he contacted me first thing to tell me that his vehicle's off the road.

edit: I've used the annual ATS Groupon offer a couple of times over the years and apart from the fact that the ATS near me (less than a mile) doesn't do aircon so I have to go to one about 15 miles away, it's always been fine. Unfortunately the problem with my current car wasn't down to the gas charge level so recharging it hasn't improved it.

[Rod]

I used a well established independent garage, old school mechanics.😁
Such a relief to have it working in this weather.

[TaketheCannoli]

Rub it in why don't you! ;)

I used a well established independent garage, old school mechanics.
Such a relief to have it working in this weather.

[Franky Four Fingers]

As was said before a vacuum test isn’t always an effective method


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mj2k]

Bloody groupon deal, only got mine done a few weeks ago on the smart. Wife had not noticed it was warm when driving !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rod]

Rub it in why don't you! ;)

Get yourself down here for a day Dave😂

[Snowdon]

I've got an air con problem on my touran unfortunately

Blowing out warm ish air when I have it sent to "LO"

As has been said above, a regas should not be required under normal circumstances. There's probably a problem somewhere. The VW specialist quoted more than £1000 for parts and labour if a new compressor is required.

What do we think? Regas and hope for the best?

Realistically, this car needs to last at least another 3 years ideally. She's a 2011 plate so not ancient but neither do I want to spend too much on her

If regassing would you guys advise regas at a specialist or one of the Groupon or cheaper places? Vw specialist claims that cheaper people won't put dye in which helps if you ever need to find a leak.

Is £75 at specialist

[JasonM]

I've got an air con problem on my touran unfortunately

Blowing out warm ish air when I have it sent to "LO"

As has been said above, a regas should not be required under normal circumstances. There's probably a problem somewhere. The VW specialist quoted more than £1000 for parts and labour if a new compressor is required.

What do we think? Regas and hope for the best?

Realistically, this car needs to last at least another 3 years ideally. She's a 2011 plate so not ancient but neither do I want to spend too much on her

If regassing would you guys advise regas at a specialist or one of the Groupon or cheaper places? Vw specialist claims that cheaper people won't put dye in which helps if you ever need to find a leak.

Is £75 at specialist

I think there has been a common issue on VW where there is a flap / hinge / rod in the dashboard somewhere that can fail and stop the cold air coming through, obviously I don't know if this is your issue.

[Franky Four Fingers]

Under normal circumstances?
A fault read first just to check there are no actuator issues, if not.....

Your system will naturally dissipate it’s charge over time, if it hasn’t been touched for a few years and there’s residual charge in the system it’s likely not to have a leak. That’s not to say of course that any leak could have just started or that the level is just down to natural escape.

Most cars hold 600g and possibly a bit more if you have proper rear ac fitted, the easiest way is to check the temps before doing anything, anywhere between 4-6 degrees is fine. If it falls outside this get the garage to check the ac charge quantity, vac the system, add UV dye and test. Vacuum tests are not always the best however if there was a decent charge in the system to start with it’s generally reasonable to assume that there isn’t an issue.

[Snowdon]

Cool

I shall check the vents and get a recharge I think

AC has not been done for 4, possibly five years so maybe it has just naturally leaked away

Thanks both

[Michael 38]

Cool

I shall check the vents and get a recharge I think

AC has not been done for 4, possibly five years so maybe it has just naturally leaked away

Thanks both

My mate had a 57 plate golf that had to have 3 compressors due to a new design that did away with the ac clutch and kept failing not sure if yours is the same but it was a big problem a few years ago

[prexelor]

I have a 57 Golf and have regassed three times and twice with the dye. The leak has not been traced.

I do not use the air con all year round and which may be part of the problem.

The last regas with dye was about £60ish a couple of years ago.

[Brian]

I have a 57 Golf and have regassed three times and twice with the dye.

I do not use the air con all year round and which may be part of the problem.

Yup - you got it. If its used all the time then the seals are oiled and supple. If you turn it off (some of)them dry and harden. It is the same with household fridges - best left on.

B

[sweets]

Mine was not working, on a car I bought used about a month ago.
Although there was a reasonable service histroy, it included nothing about ever having been re-gassed, so I was not sure whetehr it had evenutally leaked away, or if there was a leak that needed fixing.
The guy who did it (Go Cool Services, mobile in the Bristol Area) was excellent, talking me through the whole thing.
First thing, he checked the existing pressure in the system, there was pressure, but it was very low. That was encouraging.
He then removed the exisitng charge, and pressure tested using a test gas. It held this pressure for about 30 mins, with the needle perhaps dropping the tiniest amount (from bang on the line to the needle being half on the line).
He then pressure tested using hydrogen, and used a sniffer to try and ascertain whether there were any tiny leaks. He went over as many of the pipe seals, compressor seal and condenser bits as he could reach. The HC sniffer reacted to a few bits of oil on the condenser and one seal, but that was about it. He was more confident of a sealed system by now, so decided we could go for a re-gas. He had also inspected using UV to see whether any dyes had been used.
He removed the hydrogen, evacuated the system, and then re-charged it, adding some dye and oil to help diagnosis of any leaks if there was a leak.
He offers a 3 month guarantee on a re-gas.
If there is a problem, then the fault fixing is not covered by him, but the re-gas, once fixed, is.
£95 well spent

[Rod]

Yup - you got it. If its used all the time then the seals are oiled and supple. If you turn it off (some of)them dry and harden. It is the same with household fridges - best left on.
B

This is what I have been told too. The seals dry up and leak if the A/C is not used.