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Thread: Guns. Real guns. Help!

  1. #1
    Master unclealec's Avatar
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    Guns. Real guns. Help!

    I have just been contacted by a tasty neighbour with whom I endeavour to curry favour.

    Her brother-in-law died a few weeks ago, and when she cleared his house she found two guns, a pistol and a rifle.

    They were seized by the plod as he didn't have a licence. The plod now wish to return the guns to my neighbour but can't as she also does not have a licence.

    Presumably the plod will hand over to someone who is licensed; are there dealers in such items? If so, would it be a good idea to contact one?

    Photos are on their way to me, but in the meantime is there anyone on here who thinks they may be in a position to advise? The criterion is to dispose asap, but if some money were forthcoming it would help defray the funeral costs. Someone behelmetted has offered a valuation of £1000, but what do they know?

  2. #2
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    Surprised they are willing to return them - before I surrendered my licence I needed to sell or give my firearms away.

    If they were illegally held then I would expect them to destroy them - not offer to return illegally held weapons

    Have they given her a list of exactly what they are?

  3. #3
    Pictures and more detail needed for these. These could be anything, from airsoft to black powder to small bore to full bore and that will determine the next steps needed.

    I'm surprised they want to return them, given he was holding them without a licence - I'd have thought destruction would be their default. That may suggest that they're airsoft as you do still need paperwork for these when they don't meet certain aesthetic criteria.

  4. #4
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hughtrimble View Post
    Pictures and more detail needed for these. These could be anything, from airsoft to black powder to small bore to full bore and that will determine the next steps needed.

    I'm surprised they want to return them, given he was holding them without a licence - I'd have thought destruction would be their default. That may suggest that they're airsoft as you do still need paperwork for these when they don't meet certain aesthetic criteria.
    This ^^^^ unless they are replicas.
    "Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."

  5. #5
    Master Sinnlover's Avatar
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    Feel free to PM me
    Whilst not an expert I do shoot and hold both and FAC and SGC
    I might be able to offer a bit of advice,
    The fact they are offering them back is a strange one so I am guessing they are deactivated or replicas
    John

  6. #6
    Master unclealec's Avatar
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    Yeah, details are sketchy atm. I will publish the photos as n when.

  7. #7
    I take it you mean tasty as in ‘an attractive lady’ as opposed to the cockney version as in ‘he’s got access to guns, he’s a bit tasty’?!?


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  8. #8
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    Had a similar experience in the family about 10 years ago, my ( Ex RAF WW2) Grandfather died and one of the first things my Grandmother did was to ask my cousin to take the box from under the bed and take it to the Police, it was his personal WW2 nickel plated 1911 automatic pistol and a handful of shells. I wasn’t involved at the time and only found out some time later, part of me would have liked to look into the possibility of having it deactivated as a display / historic piece to go with the rest of his memorabilia.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  9. #9
    Master unclealec's Avatar
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    The pictures are in. Any contacts likely to facilitate disposal would be appreciated. Thanks for the replies so far guys.




  10. #10
    Could the Webley be deemed an obsolete calibre and thus ownable without a licence, or did they scrap that exemption? If they did scrap that exemption, unless that's a deact, I can't imagine why they'd not be destroying it (unfortunately).

    The long gun looks to be a standard side by side external hammer shotgun, though could be a rifle, hard to tell from that picture. That's likely covered by a shotgun licence, but again, more details needed on the calibre etc.

  11. #11
    Grand Master learningtofly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclealec View Post
    Yeah, details are sketchy atm. I will publish the photos as n when.
    I think I'd sooner see pictures of the neighbour.

  12. #12
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    You will have a shooting club local to you somewhere, if you phone them up they will likely put you in touch with their guy who deals with the police and legal stuff. That person will be big chums with your local police firearms guy and between them they will be able to help you.

  13. #13
    Master unclealec's Avatar
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    Mr. Plod says that he has tried locally to find a suitable outlet but has failed.

    Mind you, this is GMP we're talking about, hence my appeal to you guys.

    I think I might know a local gun enthusiast, so I may go down that route, but I am not over-confident tbh.

  14. #14
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    I am surprised nobody has mentioned the skirting boards!
    #plantpot

  15. #15
    Master TKH's Avatar
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    Right these guys are not too far away from you

    Family sold them some guns a few years back....if they cannot assist they will know who can locally

    https://www.mcavoyguns.co.uk/content...contactus.html

  16. #16
    Master unclealec's Avatar
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    Thanks TKH, very helpful. Link forwarded, now to go and console her.

    Raffe, you will have to explain the reference to skirting boards. Is this a euphemism?
    Last edited by unclealec; 30th May 2021 at 14:10.

  17. #17
    Grand Master Raffe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclealec View Post
    Raffe, you will have to explain the reference to skirting boards. Is this a euphemism?
    You need to go back about five years in forum history, when a certain member was posting a photo which contradicted his repeated claims of 'wealth and taste'. Skirting boards were central to the argument.
    #plantpot

  18. #18
    Master unclealec's Avatar
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    Thank God for that; I thought it was a reference to my tasty neighbour's feminine accompaniments.

    I'm afraid that I don't really retain details of forum spats and eruptions, with the sole exception of the Great Slow Worm Incident. Why that one I don't know. Frequent reminders may be one reason.

  19. #19
    Master geordie's Avatar
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    The hammer shotgun should be trivial to add to someones SGC but unlikely to have much value unless it's a particularly rare one.

    We had a similar situation when the MILs grandad died and a 12g hammer gun and black powder musketoon turned up. The 12g was sadly well out of proof so couldn't be used, but I had it deactivated to keep it in the family as a wall hanger. The musketoon I was able to keep as-is under section 58 as an antique/obsolete caliber gun so the pair of them are on my lounge wall over the fireplace.

    That pistol looks like an old Webley service but would need to have been either already deactivated or some obscure caliber for it to be offered to be returned, worth finding out what the police have said specifically for that as most 'current' caliber handguns are prohibited.

  20. #20
    Grand Master Neil.C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobDad View Post
    I take it you mean tasty as in ‘an attractive lady’ as opposed to the cockney version as in ‘he’s got access to guns, he’s a bit tasty’?!?


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    I must admit the second choice was my first thought.
    Cheers,
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  21. #21
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    The pistol looks like a .455 Mark 6 webley, there has been a government change in obsolete calibre law from April 2021, so look for police advice on whether it's on the list of not.

    The hammer side by side can go to a SGC holder as long as it's in proof.
    The widow can ask the police for a section 7 so can hold the shotgun securely at her home until disposal.

  22. #22
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    What does ‘in proof’ mean?
    Cheers..
    Jase

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post
    What does ‘in proof’ mean?
    From good old Wiki

    A firearm's chamber and barrel become pressure vessels for brief periods. In firearm terminology, a proof test is a test wherein a deliberately over-pressured round is fired from a firearm in order to verify that the firearm is not defective and will not explode on firing. The firearm is inspected after the test, and if it is found to be in sound condition, then it is marked with a "proof mark" to indicate that it has been proofed (not proven). In many jurisdictions a proof test and valid proof mark are required for the sale of firearms.

  24. #24
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seadog1408 View Post
    The pistol looks like a .455 Mark 6 webley, there has been a government change in obsolete calibre law from April 2021, so look for police advice on whether it's on the list of not.

    The hammer side by side can go to a SGC holder as long as it's in proof.
    The widow can ask the police for a section 7 so can hold the shotgun securely at her home until disposal.
    This.

    I believe the Webley can be held on a section 7 so could be kept until sold. The police will issue a temporary Sec 7 permit. The shotgun is probably an antique, so no licence required. Southams or Holts hold regular auctions if you need to sell them.
    “The more I learn about people, the more I like my dog.”

  25. #25
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    Thanks Rick.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  26. #26
    Grand Master oldoakknives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post
    What does ‘in proof’ mean?
    London Proof House....

    “The more I learn about people, the more I like my dog.”

  27. #27
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    Thanks, I’ll watch that later.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  28. #28
    Master Kirk280's Avatar
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    Alec - pm or text me as many details as you have. My old man was an expert in this area.

  29. #29
    Master unclealec's Avatar
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    I know no more than is on here Kirk. I await feedback from the lovely Sheila.
    The firearms are still chez GMP.
    I will update if necessary. I hope that McAvoys will be a good lead.

  30. #30
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    I think if the shotgun is an old muzzle loader it can be kept without license provided no intention to fire it.The Webley looks like a WW1 .455 and unless it’s deactivated is illegal.

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by lew07 View Post
    I think if the shotgun is an old muzzle loader it can be kept without license provided no intention to fire it.The Webley looks like a WW1 .455 and unless it’s deactivated is illegal.
    That isn’t a muzzle loader.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by junglebert View Post
    That isn’t a muzzle loader.
    I’m on a crap phone but I think I can see hammers hence there may be percussion caps and so muzzle loader?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by lew07 View Post
    I’m on a crap phone but I think I can see hammers hence there may be percussion caps and so muzzle loader?
    Actually looking on My laptop Your right.

  34. #34
    Long sad story that I won't bore you with, but I ended up with a 12 bore single barrel shotgun sat it my garage for a couple of years. Wanted rid, but heard horror stories of people being nicked for offering to give them up. Eventually there was a knife and gun amnesty, so I took it to my local plod station to surrender, which was great fun to see the desk girls face when I said I had a gun to hand in and produced this great big thing, she nearly fainted and then ran off for advice

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by lew07 View Post
    I’m on a crap phone but I think I can see hammers hence there may be percussion caps and so muzzle loader?
    Percussion caps were only used on muzzle loaders which do not require a licence.

    Unfortunately both the shotgun and the pistol are breech loaders and therefore need a licence unless deactivated.

  36. #36
    Master reggie747's Avatar
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    Unc, guns aside......when you say you want to curry favour with her.......does that mean you want to show her your love muscle ??

  37. #37
    Master Incredible Sulk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lew07 View Post
    I’m on a crap phone but I think I can see hammers hence there may be percussion caps and so muzzle loader?
    You can see hammers. You can also see the gun is broken, so whatever else it might be it isn’t a muzzle loader.

  38. #38
    Master unclealec's Avatar
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    "Unc, guns aside......when you say you want to curry favour with her.......does that mean you want to show her your love muscle ?"


    Excuse me, I'm 71, and married for 48 years to the wonderful Auntialec.




    Yes.

  39. #39
    Master reggie747's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclealec View Post
    Excuse me, I'm 71, and married for 48 years to the wonderful Auntialec.




    Yes.
    Liking your style my man oh and.....jolly good luck

  40. #40
    Grand Master Saint-Just's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reggie747 View Post
    Liking your style my man oh and.....jolly good luck
    Luck… and rohypnol!
    'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.

  41. #41
    Master unclealec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saint-Just View Post
    Luck… and rohypnol!
    Wrong there mate, she wouldn't have to drug me.

  42. #42
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    If the person who offered £1000 has a licence let him have them. Guns generally are worth nothing now, I recently sent 5 guns for disposal, they must have cost about £8k to buy, one an Aya no2 sidelock left hand stock was 1 of 4 imported. Upshot was they’ve been in dealers for years for sale, been in a holts auction and never got anywhere near reserve so I just sent them to be melted.

    The Wembley might sell to the reenactment group,


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  43. #43
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    D&B Militaria sell and deactivate lots of guns.Might be worth asking them.

  44. #44
    Master unclealec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aa388 View Post
    If the person who offered £1000 has a licence let him have them.
    I obviously didn't make myself clear.
    Someone at GMP suggested a valuation of less than £1000. That is not an offer, and not from anyone involved in the gun trade.

    And - in response to a previous reply - there isn't a widow. Well, not as such. The delightful Sheila is a widow; the deceased gun owner was the brother of her late husband and was himself unmarried.

  45. #45
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    Get the police to give her a temp authority to keep, that gets them back to her it should also give the details of what the actually are then hawk them round the dealers. Wall hangers are no longer the in thing so there’s not much call for the hammer gun, the pistol must be exempt as it would have been section 5 and she certainly wouldn’t be getting it back.


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

  46. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by aa388 View Post
    If the person who offered £1000 has a licence let him have them. Guns generally are worth nothing now, I recently sent 5 guns for disposal, they must have cost about £8k to buy, one an Aya no2 sidelock left hand stock was 1 of 4 imported. Upshot was they’ve been in dealers for years for sale, been in a holts auction and never got anywhere near reserve so I just sent them to be melted.

    The Wembley might sell to the reenactment group,


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
    If you couldn’t sell an AYA no2, it was either knackered or you wanted too much.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by junglebert View Post
    If you couldn’t sell an AYA no2, it was either knackered or you wanted too much.
    It was neither, the most I got offered for it at auction was mid 600 mark, when you took the commission off that I decided I wasn’t giving it away and it got handed into the police along with a Winchester o/u Spanish ss a 308 Remington 700pss and a 22 cz .. the aya was sat in York guns for sale for 3 years before I decided to try to auction it.


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

  48. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by aa388 View Post
    It was neither, the most I got offered for it at auction was mid 600 mark, when you took the commission off that I decided I wasn’t giving it away and it got handed into the police along with a Winchester o/u Spanish ss a 308 Remington 700pss and a 22 cz .. the aya was sat in York guns for sale for 3 years before I decided to try to auction it.


    Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
    I think that’s called cutting your nose off to spite your face, as you did give it away in the end, and you didn’t even get mid 600 less commission!

  49. #49
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    I would have gifted it to a family member or friends.

  50. #50
    Master unclealec's Avatar
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    Update.
    Advice from a suitably qualified expert has been obtained via the ever-reliable TZUK, and matters are progressing.
    I will update with the final outcome when appropriate.

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